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Eurasian Collared-Doves and hunting

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  • Steve Hampton
    FYI, from the Calif Fish and Game Q&A page today. Many birders probably already know that all those gunshots you hear on Sept 1 are dove hunters. Question: I
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 19, 2010
      FYI, from the Calif Fish and Game Q&A page today. Many birders probably already know that all those gunshots you hear on Sept 1 are dove hunters.


      Question: I have a question pertaining to Eurasian doves. I have heard they are an invasive species and compete for food and shelter with the native mourning doves. I believe they are open game during dove season and do not count towards a personal limit. Can the Eurasians be hunted year-round? In the last couple of years their population has grown extensively near where I live. If they are open year-round, I was thinking of thinning the herd a bit. (Mike G.)

      Answer: While it's very nice of you to offer to help in "thinning the herd", Eurasian doves can only be taken during the regular season. Otherwise, year-round hunting for this one species would create an enforcement nightmare for the game wardens. Eurasian doves are invasive and are living with, and competing with, native species. However, at this point they do not seem to be gaining the advantage over the native species. Keep in mind that there is no limit on Eurasian collared doves when the season is open (Sept. 1-15 and Nov. 14 - Dec 28).




      Steve Hampton
      ________________
      Resource Economist
      Office of Spill Prevention and Response
      California Dept of Fish and Game
      PO Box 944209
      Sacramento, CA 94244-2090
      -----------------------------------
      (916) 323-4724 phone
      (916) 324-8829 fax
    • Alvaro Jaramillo
      Thanks Steve, I am amazed that Fish and Game say they do not seem to be gaining an advantage over native species. I would have been much more comfortable
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 19, 2010
        Thanks Steve,



        I am amazed that Fish and Game say "they do not seem to be gaining an
        advantage over native species." I would have been much more comfortable
        with, "we do not know.." Subjectively speaking here in my neck of the woods
        Mourning Doves are less common now than when the Collared Dove arrived;
        however Collared Doves are much more local in their distribution preferring
        towns and farm buildings, rather than open fields, and less disturbed sites.
        In these places there are as many Mourning Doves as there have ever been. I
        would not be surprised if at the small scale Collareds are really hammering
        Mournings, but at the global scale there is no real threat to Mourning
        Doves. Subjectively speaking, but it would be great for someone to do a
        study.



        Alvaro



        Alvaro Jaramillo

        chucao@...

        Half Moon Bay, California



        Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide

        www.fieldguides.com

        _____

        From: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Steve Hampton
        Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 9:40 AM
        To: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [CALBIRDS] Eurasian Collared-Doves and hunting





        FYI, from the Calif Fish and Game Q&A page today. Many birders probably
        already know that all those gunshots you hear on Sept 1 are dove hunters.

        Question: I have a question pertaining to Eurasian doves. I have heard they
        are an invasive species and compete for food and shelter with the native
        mourning doves. I believe they are open game during dove season and do not
        count towards a personal limit. Can the Eurasians be hunted year-round? In
        the last couple of years their population has grown extensively near where I
        live. If they are open year-round, I was thinking of thinning the herd a
        bit. (Mike G.)

        Answer: While it's very nice of you to offer to help in "thinning the herd",
        Eurasian doves can only be taken during the regular season. Otherwise,
        year-round hunting for this one species would create an enforcement
        nightmare for the game wardens. Eurasian doves are invasive and are living
        with, and competing with, native species. However, at this point they do not
        seem to be gaining the advantage over the native species. Keep in mind that
        there is no limit on Eurasian collared doves when the season is open (Sept.
        1-15 and Nov. 14 - Dec 28).

        Steve Hampton
        ________________
        Resource Economist
        Office of Spill Prevention and Response
        California Dept of Fish and Game
        PO Box 944209
        Sacramento, CA 94244-2090
        -----------------------------------
        (916) 323-4724 phone
        (916) 324-8829 fax





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Nick & Mary Freeman
        Hi Steve & Alvaro & Birders I work in the foothills of Pasadena, CA, JPL, about 1400 in elevation. For the past two years, I ve monitored Eurasian Collared-
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 19, 2010
          Hi Steve & Alvaro & Birders

          I work in the foothills of Pasadena, CA, JPL, about 1400' in
          elevation. For the past two years, I've monitored Eurasian Collared-
          Dove that have been visiting the facility. So far, only three have
          visited the area. I thought for sure they'd populate the site, so
          far it's not happened. Band-tailed Pigeons are very common than the
          Mourning Doves at this location. Back in June, we spent a weekend in
          the southern Sierra (about 6800' in elevation) near Bakersfield, CA,
          and the Mourning Dove numbers were incredibly high with a few
          sightings of Band-taileds. We just led a trip to the Salton Sea,
          whether it's a seasonal occurrence, I'm not sure but we had a few
          Mourning Doves with the collared-doves being abundant , mainly around
          ranch or farm sites. I've wondered how much the Eurasian Collared-
          Dove is affecting the Mourning Dove population as well. Here in
          Glendale, we've not detected them but it's not to say they have not
          invaded the area.

          Mary Freeman
          Glendale, CA
        • Steve Hampton
          All, Let me clarify that I m just a messenger here and am not involved with DFG hunting regs or dove management in anyway (and I don t even know who is). From
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 19, 2010
            All,

            Let me clarify that I'm just a messenger here and am not involved with DFG hunting regs or dove management in anyway (and I don't even know who is).

            From a birder's perspective, I agree with Alvaro that this should be studied. Based on my observations here in the southern Sacramento Valley, I'm not convinced that EUCD are impacting Mourning Doves-- but I have no data to support that. EUCD seem to prefer the drier edges of the valley here, against the western and eastern foothills, and are still hard to find near the Sacramento River in the middle of the valley. And, yes, they seem to be associated with tall trees at homesteads, towns, etc.

            In winter, they form flocks of up to 75+ birds.





            Steve Hampton
            ________________
            Resource Economist
            Office of Spill Prevention and Response
            California Dept of Fish and Game
            PO Box 944209
            Sacramento, CA 94244-2090
            -----------------------------------
            (916) 323-4724 phone
            (916) 324-8829 fax

            >>> Nick & Mary Freeman <mnfreeman@...> 8/19/2010 10:26 AM >>>
            Hi Steve & Alvaro & Birders

            I work in the foothills of Pasadena, CA, JPL, about 1400' in
            elevation. For the past two years, I've monitored Eurasian Collared-
            Dove that have been visiting the facility. So far, only three have
            visited the area. I thought for sure they'd populate the site, so
            far it's not happened. Band-tailed Pigeons are very common than the
            Mourning Doves at this location. Back in June, we spent a weekend in
            the southern Sierra (about 6800' in elevation) near Bakersfield, CA,
            and the Mourning Dove numbers were incredibly high with a few
            sightings of Band-taileds. We just led a trip to the Salton Sea,
            whether it's a seasonal occurrence, I'm not sure but we had a few
            Mourning Doves with the collared-doves being abundant , mainly around
            ranch or farm sites. I've wondered how much the Eurasian Collared-
            Dove is affecting the Mourning Dove population as well. Here in
            Glendale, we've not detected them but it's not to say they have not
            invaded the area.

            Mary Freeman
            Glendale, CA
          • Rick
            I was under the impression that invasive spp. birds were not protected and thus there was basically and open season on them--I realize CA different from ND
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 19, 2010
              I was under the impression that invasive spp. birds were not protected
              and thus there was basically and open season on them--I realize CA
              different from ND but,... :-)

              On 8/19/2010 11:55 AM, Alvaro Jaramillo wrote:
              >
              > Thanks Steve,
              >
              > I am amazed that Fish and Game say "they do not seem to be gaining an
              > advantage over native species." I would have been much more comfortable
              > with, "we do not know.." Subjectively speaking here in my neck of the
              > woods
              > Mourning Doves are less common now than when the Collared Dove arrived;
              > however Collared Doves are much more local in their distribution
              > preferring
              > towns and farm buildings, rather than open fields, and less disturbed
              > sites.
              > In these places there are as many Mourning Doves as there have ever
              > been. I
              > would not be surprised if at the small scale Collareds are really
              > hammering
              > Mournings, but at the global scale there is no real threat to Mourning
              > Doves. Subjectively speaking, but it would be great for someone to do a
              > study.
              >
              > Alvaro
              >
              > Alvaro Jaramillo
              >
              > chucao@... <mailto:chucao%40coastside.net>
              >
              > Half Moon Bay, California
              >
              > Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
              >
              > www.fieldguides.com
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CALBIRDS%40yahoogroups.com>
              > [mailto:CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CALBIRDS%40yahoogroups.com>]
              > On Behalf
              > Of Steve Hampton
              > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 9:40 AM
              > To: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CALBIRDS%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: [CALBIRDS] Eurasian Collared-Doves and hunting
              >
              > FYI, from the Calif Fish and Game Q&A page today. Many birders probably
              > already know that all those gunshots you hear on Sept 1 are dove hunters.
              >
              > Question: I have a question pertaining to Eurasian doves. I have heard
              > they
              > are an invasive species and compete for food and shelter with the native
              > mourning doves. I believe they are open game during dove season and do not
              > count towards a personal limit. Can the Eurasians be hunted year-round? In
              > the last couple of years their population has grown extensively near
              > where I
              > live. If they are open year-round, I was thinking of thinning the herd a
              > bit. (Mike G.)
              >
              > Answer: While it's very nice of you to offer to help in "thinning the
              > herd",
              > Eurasian doves can only be taken during the regular season. Otherwise,
              > year-round hunting for this one species would create an enforcement
              > nightmare for the game wardens. Eurasian doves are invasive and are living
              > with, and competing with, native species. However, at this point they
              > do not
              > seem to be gaining the advantage over the native species. Keep in mind
              > that
              > there is no limit on Eurasian collared doves when the season is open
              > (Sept.
              > 1-15 and Nov. 14 - Dec 28).
              >
              > Steve Hampton
              > ________________
              > Resource Economist
              > Office of Spill Prevention and Response
              > California Dept of Fish and Game
              > PO Box 944209
              > Sacramento, CA 94244-2090
              > -----------------------------------
              > (916) 323-4724 phone
              > (916) 324-8829 fax
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >


              --

              Rick Holbrook
              Fargo, ND
              N 46°53'251"
              W 096°48'279"


              Remember the USS Liberty
              http://www.ussliberty.org/

              Reply to: fholbrook(at)cableone.net








              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ken Burton
              In the For-What-It s-Worth Department, Mourning Dove does show a significant decline on BBS routes in California from 1966-2007. There was a non-significant
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 19, 2010
                In the For-What-It's-Worth Department, Mourning Dove does show a
                significant decline on BBS routes in California from 1966-2007. There
                was a non-significant decline from 1980-2007 after a non-significant
                increase from 1966-1979. Of course, it would be foolish to blame this
                on collared-doves, which weren't even around during most of the
                "decline," but it would be equally foolish to say off-handedly that
                mourning doves are doing fine.

                Coincidentally, I'm writing an article on the collared-dove in which I
                call for studies of its interactions with and impacts on native species.
                One piece of information I haven't been able to sleuth out is an
                explanation of the specific name, decaocto. "Ten-eight"? Doesn't make
                much sense to me. Can anyone elucidate?

                Thanks.

                Ken Burton
                Arcata

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Alvaro Jaramillo" <chucao@...>
                To: "'Steve Hampton'" <shampton@...>;
                <CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 9:55 AM
                Subject: RE: [CALBIRDS] Eurasian Collared-Doves and hunting


                > Thanks Steve,
                >
                >
                >
                > I am amazed that Fish and Game say "they do not seem to be gaining
                > an
                > advantage over native species." I would have been much more
                > comfortable
                > with, "we do not know.." Subjectively speaking here in my neck of the
                > woods
                > Mourning Doves are less common now than when the Collared Dove
                > arrived;
                > however Collared Doves are much more local in their distribution
                > preferring
                > towns and farm buildings, rather than open fields, and less disturbed
                > sites.
                > In these places there are as many Mourning Doves as there have ever
                > been. I
                > would not be surprised if at the small scale Collareds are really
                > hammering
                > Mournings, but at the global scale there is no real threat to Mourning
                > Doves. Subjectively speaking, but it would be great for someone to do
                > a
                > study.
                >
                >
                >
                > Alvaro
                >
                >
                >
                > Alvaro Jaramillo
                >
                > chucao@...
                >
                > Half Moon Bay, California
                >
                >
                >
                > Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
                >
                > www.fieldguides.com
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf
                > Of Steve Hampton
                > Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 9:40 AM
                > To: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [CALBIRDS] Eurasian Collared-Doves and hunting
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > FYI, from the Calif Fish and Game Q&A page today. Many birders
                > probably
                > already know that all those gunshots you hear on Sept 1 are dove
                > hunters.
                >
                > Question: I have a question pertaining to Eurasian doves. I have heard
                > they
                > are an invasive species and compete for food and shelter with the
                > native
                > mourning doves. I believe they are open game during dove season and do
                > not
                > count towards a personal limit. Can the Eurasians be hunted
                > year-round? In
                > the last couple of years their population has grown extensively near
                > where I
                > live. If they are open year-round, I was thinking of thinning the herd
                > a
                > bit. (Mike G.)
                >
                > Answer: While it's very nice of you to offer to help in "thinning the
                > herd",
                > Eurasian doves can only be taken during the regular season. Otherwise,
                > year-round hunting for this one species would create an enforcement
                > nightmare for the game wardens. Eurasian doves are invasive and are
                > living
                > with, and competing with, native species. However, at this point they
                > do not
                > seem to be gaining the advantage over the native species. Keep in mind
                > that
                > there is no limit on Eurasian collared doves when the season is open
                > (Sept.
                > 1-15 and Nov. 14 - Dec 28).
                >
                > Steve Hampton
                > ________________
                > Resource Economist
                > Office of Spill Prevention and Response
                > California Dept of Fish and Game
                > PO Box 944209
                > Sacramento, CA 94244-2090
                > -----------------------------------
                > (916) 323-4724 phone
                > (916) 324-8829 fax
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
              • Kimball Garrett
                Ken et al., I could say they re named decaocto because they re so ten-eight-ious, but Jobling, in A Dictionary of Scientifc Bird Names, says: Decaocto L.
                Message 7 of 7 , Aug 19, 2010
                  Ken et al.,

                  I could say they're named decaocto because they're so ten-eight-ious,
                  but Jobling, in A Dictionary of Scientifc Bird Names, says:
                  "Decaocto L. dec-, ten; octo, eight. Greek myth. A hard-worked
                  maidservant, bemoaning her pay of miserly 18 piece a year, prayed for
                  release and was changed by the gods into a dove that echoed her mournful
                  cries." [Little did she know she would take over the world!]

                  Apropos of Steve's comment about hunting, I would encourage whatever
                  small percentage of you on this listserve who are also dove hunters, to
                  check with your local museum/university bird collection to see if they
                  want you to bag a few (with full data) for science. Developing a decent
                  series individuals from recently colonizing species can have great value
                  in population genetics, evolutionary studies of morphological
                  adaptation, etc. We probably still lack specimens of ECDove from most
                  California counties.

                  Kimball

                  Kimball L. Garrett
                  Ornithology Collections Manager
                  Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
                  900 Exposition Blvd.
                  Los Angeles, CA 90007 USA
                  213-763-3368
                  kgarrett@...


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Ken Burton
                  Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 11:04 AM
                  To: 'Steve Hampton'; CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com; Alvaro Jaramillo
                  Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Eurasian Collared-Doves and hunting

                  Coincidentally, I'm writing an article on the collared-dove in which I
                  call for studies of its interactions with and impacts on native species.

                  One piece of information I haven't been able to sleuth out is an
                  explanation of the specific name, decaocto. "Ten-eight"? Doesn't make
                  much sense to me. Can anyone elucidate?
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.