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Pelagic County Map Needed

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  • Finatic
    Is there a map available (electronic hopefully) that will show the ABA county lines for offshore birding? I ve been looking online and have not found one yet.
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 13 8:27 AM
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      Is there a map available (electronic hopefully) that will show the ABA county lines for offshore birding? I've been looking online and have not found one yet. Please forward me any information that you aware of.

      Thanks in advance,

      BJ Stacey
      Santee, CA
    • tsuru8
      Hey BJ, Did you ever get a reply to your question. We had a bird off Long Beach a number of days ago that I m trying to find out what county it was in for our
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 29, 2013
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        Hey BJ,

         

        Did you ever get a reply to your question.  We had a bird off Long Beach a number of days ago that I'm trying to find out what county it was in for our county recorder.

         

        One link I came across doesn't work and gets a pop up when you try to go to it.

         

        So would be most appreciative if you know of one.

         

        Thanks,

        Monte

         



        ---In calbirds@yahoogroups.com, <bjinsd@...> wrote:

        Is there a map available (electronic hopefully) that will show the ABA county lines for offshore birding? I've been looking online and have not found one yet. Please forward me any information that you aware of.

        Thanks in advance,

        BJ Stacey
        Santee, CA
      • Jamie Chavez
        Monte, I ve looked for years and have never seen such a map. I would (almost) pay money for such a reference. Unless I m mistaken the ABA doesn t recognize
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 30, 2013
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          Monte,

          I've looked for years and have never seen such a map. I would (almost) pay money for such a reference. Unless I'm mistaken the ABA doesn't recognize county lines. Only offshore distances to the 200 mile limit and/or half the distance to a neighboring area or jurisdiction. To complicate matters the discussion of offshore "county lines" in CA should take into account this rule. That being half the distance to the nearest point of land, so such a map would really be interesting to see and probably surprising to many people. This is discussed thoroughly on the CBRC website by Don Roberson, but the existence of such a map to actually look at doesn't exist to my knowledge. Yet eBird seems to be able to map entries based on this principle so there must be a way to generate such a map. I wish I knew how.

          See Don's Discussion of Offshore County Lines:

          -- 
          Jamie Chavez
          Santa Maria, CA


          On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:44 PM, <tsuru88@...> wrote:
           

          Hey BJ,

           

          Did you ever get a reply to your question.  We had a bird off Long Beach a number of days ago that I'm trying to find out what county it was in for our county recorder.

           

          One link I came across doesn't work and gets a pop up when you try to go to it.

           

          So would be most appreciative if you know of one.

           

          Thanks,

          Monte

           



          ---In calbirds@yahoogroups.com, <bjinsd@...> wrote:

          Is there a map available (electronic hopefully) that will show the ABA county lines for offshore birding? I've been looking online and have not found one yet. Please forward me any information that you aware of.

          Thanks in advance,

          BJ Stacey
          Santee, CA





        • mitch@...
          Don Roberson covers it here..... http://www.californiabirds.org/counties.html Mitch Heindel Utopia, Texas
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 30, 2013
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            Don Roberson covers it here.....

            http://www.californiabirds.org/counties.html

            Mitch Heindel
            Utopia, Texas

            Quoting tsuru88@...:

            > Hey BJ,
            >
            > Did you ever get a reply to your question. We had a bird off Long
            > Beach a number of days ago that I'm trying to find out what county
            > it was in for our county recorder.
            >
            > One link I came across doesn't work and gets a pop up when you try
            > to go to it.
            >
            > So would be most appreciative if you know of one.
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Monte
            >
            >
            >
            > ---In calbirds@yahoogroups.com, <bjinsd@...> wrote:
            >
            > Is there a map available (electronic hopefully) that will show the
            > ABA county lines for offshore birding? I've been looking online and
            > have not found one yet. Please forward me any information that you
            > aware of.
            >
            > Thanks in advance,
            >
            > BJ Stacey
            > Santee, CA
            >
            >
          • Elias Elias
            Check Joe Morlans webpage. I produced a set of files which can we loaded onto a GPS. Joe graciously hosts those files. Flock on! Elias/ﺍﺽﻉﻓﻥ Arcata
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 30, 2013
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              Check Joe Morlans webpage. I produced a set of files which can we loaded onto a GPS. Joe graciously hosts those files. 

              Flock on!

              Elias/Ηλίας
              Arcata CA/San Diego CA
              Walkie talkie primero=707-633-8833
              Last ditch alternate=559-433-7254

              To release the truth within us, to hold back the night, to transcend death, to charm motorways, to ingratiate ourselves with birds, to enlist the confidences of madmen

              JG Ballard

              On Oct 29, 2013, at 22:44, "tsuru88@..." <tsuru88@...> wrote:



              Hey BJ,

               

              Did you ever get a reply to your question.  We had a bird off Long Beach a number of days ago that I'm trying to find out what county it was in for our county recorder.

               

              One link I came across doesn't work and gets a pop up when you try to go to it.

               

              So would be most appreciative if you know of one.

               

              Thanks,

              Monte

               



              ---In calbirds@yahoogroups.com, <bjinsd@...> wrote:

              Is there a map available (electronic hopefully) that will show the ABA county lines for offshore birding? I've been looking online and have not found one yet. Please forward me any information that you aware of.

              Thanks in advance,

              BJ Stacey
              Santee, CA


            • Brian Sullivan
              Monte et al. eBird uses a nearest point of land algorithm to calculate county values for offshore locations. If you have the lat/long, and plot the record
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 30, 2013
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                Monte et al.

                eBird uses a 'nearest point of land' algorithm to calculate county values for offshore locations. If you have the lat/long, and plot the record precisely in eBird, it should give you the correct county.

                Thanks

                Brian


                On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:44 PM, <tsuru88@...> wrote:
                 

                Hey BJ,

                 

                Did you ever get a reply to your question.  We had a bird off Long Beach a number of days ago that I'm trying to find out what county it was in for our county recorder.

                 

                One link I came across doesn't work and gets a pop up when you try to go to it.

                 

                So would be most appreciative if you know of one.

                 

                Thanks,

                Monte

                 



                ---In calbirds@yahoogroups.com, <bjinsd@...> wrote:

                Is there a map available (electronic hopefully) that will show the ABA county lines for offshore birding? I've been looking online and have not found one yet. Please forward me any information that you aware of.

                Thanks in advance,

                BJ Stacey
                Santee, CA




                --
                ===========
                Brian L. Sullivan

                eBird Project Leader

                www.ebird.org

                Photo Editor
                Birds of North America Online
                http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/BNA
                -------------------------------
              • Jamie Chavez
                I think the question is (at least in my mind) can a map be created illustrating where the lines would be to the nearest point of land between county
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 30, 2013
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                  I think the question is (at least in my mind) can a map be created illustrating where the lines would be to the nearest point of land between county jurisdictions?

                  Jamie M. Chavez
                  Santa Maria, CA

                  On Oct 30, 2013 7:47 AM, "Brian Sullivan" <heraldpetrel@...> wrote:
                   

                  Monte et al.

                  eBird uses a 'nearest point of land' algorithm to calculate county values for offshore locations. If you have the lat/long, and plot the record precisely in eBird, it should give you the correct county.

                  Thanks

                  Brian


                  On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 10:44 PM, <tsuru88@...> wrote:
                   

                  Hey BJ,

                   

                  Did you ever get a reply to your question.  We had a bird off Long Beach a number of days ago that I'm trying to find out what county it was in for our county recorder.

                   

                  One link I came across doesn't work and gets a pop up when you try to go to it.

                   

                  So would be most appreciative if you know of one.

                   

                  Thanks,

                  Monte

                   



                  ---In calbirds@yahoogroups.com, <bjinsd@...> wrote:

                  Is there a map available (electronic hopefully) that will show the ABA county lines for offshore birding? I've been looking online and have not found one yet. Please forward me any information that you aware of.

                  Thanks in advance,

                  BJ Stacey
                  Santee, CA




                  --
                  ===========
                  Brian L. Sullivan

                  eBird Project Leader

                  www.ebird.org

                  Photo Editor
                  Birds of North America Online
                  http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/BNA
                  -------------------------------
                • mitch@...
                  Hi all, The article by Lee Jones in the Western Tanager cited by Roberson in his excellent piece had maps, if you can find a copy, or perhaps LAAS could post a
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 30, 2013
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                    Hi all,

                    The article by Lee Jones in the Western Tanager cited by Roberson
                    in his excellent piece had maps, if you can find a copy, or perhaps LAAS
                    could post a copy of the map that was "half the distance to nearest
                    land including islands" which was the correct one, though as I recall
                    one may have been labeled incorrectly in the original Tanager article.

                    Or you can plot your bird, measure to determine nearest land
                    (including islands)
                    and that is the county you were in.

                    Mitch Heindel
                    Utopia, Texas


                    Quoting Jamie Chavez <almiyi@...>:

                    > Monte,
                    >
                    > I've looked for years and have never seen such a map. I would (almost) pay
                    > money for such a reference. Unless I'm mistaken the ABA doesn't recognize
                    > county lines. Only offshore distances to the 200 mile limit and/or half the
                    > distance to a neighboring area or jurisdiction. To complicate matters the
                    > discussion of offshore "county lines" in CA should take into account this
                    > rule. That being half the distance to the nearest point of land, so such a
                    > map would really be interesting to see and probably surprising to many
                    > people. This is discussed thoroughly on the CBRC website by Don Roberson,
                    > but the existence of such a map to actually look at doesn't exist to my
                    > knowledge. Yet eBird seems to be able to map entries based on this
                    > principle so there must be a way to generate such a map. I wish I knew how.
                    >
                    > See Don's Discussion of Offshore County Lines:
                    > http://www.californiabirds.org/counties.html
                    >
                    > --
                    > Jamie Chavez
                    > Santa Maria, CA
                    > http://www.sbcobirding.com/index.html
                    >
                  • Joseph Morlan
                    A direct link to Elias s files is at... http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/CountyLines.htm However, it looks like the lines generated in phase one of this project go
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 30, 2013
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                      A direct link to Elias's files is at...

                      http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/CountyLines.htm

                      However, it looks like the lines generated in phase one of this project go
                      out only to 3 nm. My understanding is that a planned phase two would go
                      out to 200 nm.

                      Another resource is an offshore nearest point of land contour map going all
                      the way to 200 nm at 10 nm intervals. It is on Page G-4 of "Rare Birds of
                      California." The book is out of print, but I have posted a full-size
                      version of that map at...

                      http://www.californiabirds.org/4-off_shore%20resized.jpg



                      On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 07:17:33 -0700, Elias Elias <fabflockfinder@...>
                      wrote:

                      >Check Joe Morlans webpage. I produced a set of files which can we loaded
                      >onto a GPS. Joe graciously hosts those files.
                      >
                      >Flock on!
                      >
                      >Elias/?????
                      >Arcata CA/San Diego CA
                      >Walkie talkie primero=707-633-8833
                      >Last ditch alternate=559-433-7254
                      >
                      >To release the truth within us, to hold back the night, to transcend death,
                      >to charm motorways, to ingratiate ourselves with birds, to enlist the
                      >confidences of madmen
                      >
                      >JG Ballard
                      >
                      >On Oct 29, 2013, at 22:44, "tsuru88@..." <tsuru88@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Hey BJ,
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Did you ever get a reply to your question. We had a bird off Long Beach a
                      >number of days ago that I'm trying to find out what county it was in for
                      >our county recorder.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >One link I came across doesn't work and gets a pop up when you try to go to
                      >it.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >So would be most appreciative if you know of one.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Thanks,
                      >
                      >Monte
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >---In calbirds@yahoogroups.com, <bjinsd@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >Is there a map available (electronic hopefully) that will show the ABA
                      >county lines for offshore birding? I've been looking online and have not
                      >found one yet. Please forward me any information that you aware of.
                      >
                      >Thanks in advance,
                      >
                      >BJ Stacey
                      >Santee, CA
                      >
                      >
                      --
                      Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA
                      "It turns out we're very good at not seeing things" - Jack Hitt
                    • m_m_rogers
                      All, Robert Keiffer pointed out the following useful website to me last month: http://ucanr.edu/sites/hopland/ http://ucanr.edu/sites/hopland/ Click on
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 30, 2013
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                        All,

                         

                        Robert Keiffer pointed out the following useful website to me last month: 

                         

                        http://ucanr.edu/sites/hopland/

                         

                        Click on California pelagic birds mapping and follow the instructions - make sure to enter locations in decimal degrees.

                         

                        Mike Rogers

                        Sunnyvale, CA

                         



                        ---In CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com, <mitch@...> wrote:

                        Hi all,

                        The article by Lee Jones in the Western Tanager cited by Roberson
                        in his excellent piece had maps, if you can find a copy, or perhaps LAAS
                        could post a copy of the map that was "half the distance to nearest
                        land including islands" which was the correct one, though as I recall
                        one may have been labeled incorrectly in the original Tanager article.

                        Or you can plot your bird, measure to determine nearest land
                        (including islands)
                        and that is the county you were in.

                        Mitch Heindel
                        Utopia, Texas


                        Quoting Jamie Chavez <almiyi@...>:

                        > Monte,
                        >
                        > I've looked for years and have never seen such a map. I would (almost) pay
                        > money for such a reference. Unless I'm mistaken the ABA doesn't recognize
                        > county lines. Only offshore distances to the 200 mile limit and/or half the
                        > distance to a neighboring area or jurisdiction. To complicate matters the
                        > discussion of offshore "county lines" in CA should take into account this
                        > rule. That being half the distance to the nearest point of land, so such a
                        > map would really be interesting to see and probably surprising to many
                        > people. This is discussed thoroughly on the CBRC website by Don Roberson,
                        > but the existence of such a map to actually look at doesn't exist to my
                        > knowledge. Yet eBird seems to be able to map entries based on this
                        > principle so there must be a way to generate such a map. I wish I knew how.
                        >
                        > See Don's Discussion of Offshore County Lines:
                        > http://www.californiabirds.org/counties.html
                        >
                        > --
                        > Jamie Chavez
                        > Santa Maria, CA
                        > http://www.sbcobirding.com/index.html
                        >
                      • Steve & Priscilla Summers
                        All, I have such a map, or nearly so. Over the last few years I have been drawing the county pelagic lines by closest point of land for my Garmin eTrex which
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 30, 2013
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                          All,

                          I have such a map, or nearly so. Over the last few years I have been
                          drawing the county pelagic lines by closest point of land for my Garmin
                          eTrex which I use on pelagic trips. When I'm on a boat I always know where
                          the county line is. So far I have found them to be pretty accurate when I
                          get the chance to test it out. I usually test it by taking onsite
                          waypoints and then entering it into eBird to see what county they come up
                          with, I figure eBird is more accurate than I can be. So far my lines have
                          been very very close, less than a mile off if not right on. I haven't done
                          the Humboldt-Mendocino or Humboldt-Del Norte lines yet.

                          With this discussion now I've put these lines into a Google Earth file (kmz)
                          which if you email me I'll send it to you. I've also put this file directly
                          into this groups files section labeled "California pelagic county lines"

                          One line I'm not sure what to do with is the California-Oregon border. By
                          definition the border is 42° latitude, does this by law extend into the
                          ocean? If you go by closest point of land we lose some ocean to Oregon.
                          Interestingly Oregonians use pelagic lines extending due west from where the
                          line is on the beach. This was an Oregon Birds Records Committee decision
                          made years ago (I think I was part of that decision). They recently had a
                          discussion on this very topic. I have both lines on the map.

                          I hope this works as I just now did all this. I sent this file to my Galaxy
                          S3 phone in an email to myself and then opened it up in Google Earth and it
                          worked (you'll need to have Google Earth on your phone). That means if you
                          open Google Earth and load the pelagic area that you will be traveling
                          through while you still have service and if you have a smart phone that has
                          real GPS (one that can get your location without having cell service) you
                          should be able to see where you are in real time and where the county line
                          is while on the boat and out of phone service.

                          Good luck and someone let me know if this all works out.

                          Steve Summers
                          Porterville, CA


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                          Of Joseph Morlan
                          Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 9:41 AM
                          To: Elias Elias
                          Cc: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] RE: Pelagic County Map Needed

                          A direct link to Elias's files is at...

                          http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/CountyLines.htm

                          However, it looks like the lines generated in phase one of this project go
                          out only to 3 nm. My understanding is that a planned phase two would go out
                          to 200 nm.

                          Another resource is an offshore nearest point of land contour map going all
                          the way to 200 nm at 10 nm intervals. It is on Page G-4 of "Rare Birds of
                          California." The book is out of print, but I have posted a full-size
                          version of that map at...

                          http://www.californiabirds.org/4-off_shore%20resized.jpg



                          On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 07:17:33 -0700, Elias Elias <fabflockfinder@...>
                          wrote:

                          >Check Joe Morlans webpage. I produced a set of files which can we
                          >loaded onto a GPS. Joe graciously hosts those files.
                          >
                          >Flock on!
                          >
                          >Elias/?????
                          >Arcata CA/San Diego CA
                          >Walkie talkie primero=707-633-8833
                          >Last ditch alternate=559-433-7254
                          >
                          >To release the truth within us, to hold back the night, to transcend
                          >death, to charm motorways, to ingratiate ourselves with birds, to
                          >enlist the confidences of madmen
                          >
                          >JG Ballard
                          >
                          >On Oct 29, 2013, at 22:44, "tsuru88@..." <tsuru88@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >Hey BJ,
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >Did you ever get a reply to your question. We had a bird off Long
                          >Beach a number of days ago that I'm trying to find out what county it
                          >was in for our county recorder.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >One link I came across doesn't work and gets a pop up when you try to
                          >go to it.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >So would be most appreciative if you know of one.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >Thanks,
                          >
                          >Monte
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >---In calbirds@yahoogroups.com, <bjinsd@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >Is there a map available (electronic hopefully) that will show the ABA
                          >county lines for offshore birding? I've been looking online and have
                          >not found one yet. Please forward me any information that you aware of.
                          >
                          >Thanks in advance,
                          >
                          >BJ Stacey
                          >Santee, CA
                          >
                          >
                          --
                          Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA
                          "It turns out we're very good at not seeing things" - Jack Hitt


                          ------------------------------------

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                        • Elias Elias
                          Thanks Joe for sending out the link. Phase Two was beyond the limits of my software on hand. And I have been too busy to tackle that project. Hence it never
                          Message 12 of 13 , Nov 3, 2013
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                            Thanks Joe for sending out the link. Phase Two was beyond the limits
                            of my software on hand. And I have been too busy to tackle that
                            project. Hence it never happen. Once I learned of Bob's and Shane's
                            interest in doing same I was happy to let a GIS pro do the heavy
                            lifting.

                            Flock on!

                            Elias/Ηλίας
                            Arcata CA/San Diego CA
                            Walkie talkie primero=707-633-8833
                            Last ditch alternate=559-433-7254

                            To release the truth within us, to hold back the night, to transcend
                            death, to charm motorways, to ingratiate ourselves with birds, to
                            enlist the confidences of madmen

                            JG Ballard

                            On Oct 30, 2013, at 9:40, Joseph Morlan <jmorlan@...> wrote:

                            > A direct link to Elias's files is at...
                            >
                            > http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/CountyLines.htm
                            >
                            > However, it looks like the lines generated in phase one of this project go
                            > out only to 3 nm. My understanding is that a planned phase two would go
                            > out to 200 nm.
                            >
                            > Another resource is an offshore nearest point of land contour map going all
                            > the way to 200 nm at 10 nm intervals. It is on Page G-4 of "Rare Birds of
                            > California." The book is out of print, but I have posted a full-size
                            > version of that map at...
                            >
                            > http://www.californiabirds.org/4-off_shore%20resized.jpg
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 07:17:33 -0700, Elias Elias <fabflockfinder@...>
                            > wrote:
                            >
                            >> Check Joe Morlans webpage. I produced a set of files which can we loaded
                            >> onto a GPS. Joe graciously hosts those files.
                            >>
                            >> Flock on!
                            >>
                            >> Elias/?????
                            >> Arcata CA/San Diego CA
                            >> Walkie talkie primero=707-633-8833
                            >> Last ditch alternate=559-433-7254
                            >>
                            >> To release the truth within us, to hold back the night, to transcend death,
                            >> to charm motorways, to ingratiate ourselves with birds, to enlist the
                            >> confidences of madmen
                            >>
                            >> JG Ballard
                            >>
                            >> On Oct 29, 2013, at 22:44, "tsuru88@..." <tsuru88@...> wrote:
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Hey BJ,
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Did you ever get a reply to your question. We had a bird off Long Beach a
                            >> number of days ago that I'm trying to find out what county it was in for
                            >> our county recorder.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> One link I came across doesn't work and gets a pop up when you try to go to
                            >> it.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> So would be most appreciative if you know of one.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Thanks,
                            >>
                            >> Monte
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> ---In calbirds@yahoogroups.com, <bjinsd@...> wrote:
                            >>
                            >> Is there a map available (electronic hopefully) that will show the ABA
                            >> county lines for offshore birding? I've been looking online and have not
                            >> found one yet. Please forward me any information that you aware of.
                            >>
                            >> Thanks in advance,
                            >>
                            >> BJ Stacey
                            >> Santee, CA
                            > --
                            > Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA
                            > "It turns out we're very good at not seeing things" - Jack Hitt
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
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                            >
                            > For vacation suspension of mail go to the website. Click on Edit My Membership and set your mail option to No Email. Or, send a blank email to these addresses:
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                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Elias Elias
                            Steve asks: One line I m not sure what to do with is the California-Oregon border. By definition the border is 42░ latitude, does this by law extend into
                            Message 13 of 13 , Nov 3, 2013
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                              Steve asks:

                              One line I'm not sure what to do with is the California-Oregon border.  By
                              definition the border is 42° latitude, does this by law extend into the
                              ocean?

                              Steve-- too busy this week to answer you timely. By law, state of California extends only 3 nautical miles offshore (same as counties). This would mean in most instances in California a terrestrial county line would go due east-west line for 3 nmi. Then birders' Marine Listing Areas would snap to the nearest point of land principle. This whole offshore county Marine Listing Areas is a fabrication of some distant past birding committee. It is listed in the ABA listing rules. It seems this topic is only interesting to a very small (but growing) subset us birders. Nobody else in the whole wide world cares to this level of detail. 

                              It took me a while to come to grips with the fact that county lines do not extend all the way out to the limit of the Exclusive Economic Zone 200 nmi out. Perhaps a purist working on their county list would stop at 3 nmi from the Baseline--a legally enshrined term which is the prime focus of a federal government committee. they define the Baseline and draw it on NOAA nautical charts. For the most part the shoreline is the Baseline unless 1) offshore rocks are tall enough to dry out at mean lower low tide or 2) a bay has been defined as "internal waters" and the Baseline committee has drawn a straight line from say point pinos (Pacific Grove) to Santa Cruz claiming Monterey Bay as State jurisdiction. the same has been done at the Golden Gate. The minutiae go on and on and are steeped in legalese. It fascinating if for no other reason that it is a look into the inner workings of various levels of Government and the rules human contrive out of thin air. Did the people who lived here 500 years ago do the same? My Hoopa and Yurok friends tell stories that yes they did. 

                              See this dot gov site:

                              Oh one last thing. SoCal counties do not extend east west but odd degree values listed in the Ca Gov Code books. 

                              Flock on!

                              Elias/Ηλίας
                              Arcata CA/San Diego CA
                              Walkie talkie primero=707-633-8833
                              Last ditch alternate=559-433-7254

                              To release the truth within us, to hold back the night, to transcend death, to charm motorways, to ingratiate ourselves with birds, to enlist the confidences of madmen

                              JG Ballard

                              On Oct 30, 2013, at 13:59, Steve & Priscilla Summers <summers@...> wrote:

                              All,

                              I have such a map, or nearly so.  Over the last few years I have been
                              drawing the county pelagic lines by closest point of land for my Garmin
                              eTrex which I use on pelagic trips.  When I'm on a boat I always know where
                              the county line is.  So far I have found them to be pretty accurate when I
                              get the chance to test it out.  I usually test it by taking  onsite
                              waypoints and then entering it into eBird to see what county they come up
                              with, I figure eBird is more accurate than I can be.  So far my lines have
                              been very very close, less than a mile off if not right on.  I haven't done
                              the Humboldt-Mendocino or Humboldt-Del Norte lines yet.

                              With this discussion now I've put these lines into a Google Earth file (kmz)
                              which if you email me I'll send it to you.  I've also put this file directly
                              into this groups files section labeled "California pelagic county lines"

                              One line I'm not sure what to do with is the California-Oregon border.  By
                              definition the border is 42° latitude, does this by law extend into the
                              ocean?  If you go by closest point of land we lose some ocean to Oregon.
                              Interestingly Oregonians use pelagic lines extending due west from where the
                              line is on the beach.  This was an Oregon Birds Records Committee decision
                              made years ago (I think I was part of that decision).  They recently had a
                              discussion on this very topic.  I have both lines on the map.

                              I hope this works as I just now did all this.  I sent this file to my Galaxy
                              S3 phone in an email to myself and then opened it up in Google Earth and it
                              worked (you'll need to have Google Earth on your phone).  That means if you
                              open Google Earth and load the pelagic area that you will be traveling
                              through while you still have service and if you have a smart phone that has
                              real GPS (one that can get your location without having cell service) you
                              should be able to see where you are in real time and where the county line
                              is while on the boat and out of phone service.

                              Good luck and someone let me know if this all works out.

                              Steve Summers
                              Porterville, CA


                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                              Of Joseph Morlan
                              Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 9:41 AM
                              To: Elias Elias
                              Cc: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] RE: Pelagic County Map Needed

                              A direct link to Elias's files is at...

                              http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/CountyLines.htm

                              However, it looks like the lines generated in phase one of this project go
                              out only to 3 nm.  My understanding is that a planned phase two would go out
                              to 200 nm.  

                              Another resource is an offshore nearest point of land contour map going all
                              the way to 200 nm at 10 nm intervals.  It is on Page G-4 of "Rare Birds of
                              California."  The book is out of print, but I have posted a full-size
                              version of that map at...

                              http://www.californiabirds.org/4-off_shore%20resized.jpg



                              On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 07:17:33 -0700, Elias Elias <fabflockfinder@...>
                              wrote:

                              Check Joe Morlans webpage. I produced a set of files which can we
                              loaded onto a GPS. Joe graciously hosts those files.

                              Flock on!

                              Elias/?????
                              Arcata CA/San Diego CA
                              Walkie talkie primero=707-633-8833
                              Last ditch alternate=559-433-7254

                              To release the truth within us, to hold back the night, to transcend
                              death, to charm motorways, to ingratiate ourselves with birds, to
                              enlist the confidences of madmen

                              JG Ballard

                              On Oct 29, 2013, at 22:44, "tsuru88@..." <tsuru88@...> wrote:



                              Hey BJ,



                              Did you ever get a reply to your question.  We had a bird off Long
                              Beach a number of days ago that I'm trying to find out what county it
                              was in for our county recorder.



                              One link I came across doesn't work and gets a pop up when you try to
                              go to it.



                              So would be most appreciative if you know of one.



                              Thanks,

                              Monte




                              ---In calbirds@yahoogroups.com, <bjinsd@...> wrote:

                              Is there a map available (electronic hopefully) that will show the ABA
                              county lines for offshore birding? I've been looking online and have
                              not found one yet. Please forward me any information that you aware of.

                              Thanks in advance,

                              BJ Stacey
                              Santee, CA


                              --
                              Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA
                              "It turns out we're very good at not seeing things" - Jack Hitt


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