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Re: [CALBIRDS] Unknown Hummingbird

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  • Joseph Morlan
    All, The photos were posted on the Tulare/Kings email list and may be viewed at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tularekingsbirds/photos/recent/list However, you
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 1, 2009
      All,

      The photos were posted on the Tulare/Kings email list and may be viewed at:

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tularekingsbirds/photos/recent/list

      However, you may have to join the group to view the photos.

      For those who are not members and just want to see the photos, I have
      posted them temporarily at:

      http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/myhu062709.htm

      I asked for permission to post the photos, but have not yet received a
      reply from the photographer, so this web page may disappear any time.

      On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:05:48 -0700, "Alvaro Jaramillo"
      <chucao@...> wrote:

      >Folks,
      >
      > If the bird was not huge, that is a bad strike against Blue-throated. Can
      >someone put the photos up where they can be accessed publicly?
      >
      >thanks,
      >
      >Alvaro
      >
      >Alvaro Jaramillo
      >chucao@...
      >Half Moon Bay, California
      >
      >Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
      >www.fieldguides.com <http://www.fieldguides.com/>
      >
      >
      > _____
      >
      >From: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      >Of BRUCE DEUEL
      >Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:56 PM
      >To: boby@...
      >Cc: ctaylor@...; CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Unknown Hummingbird
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >I would certainly second Bob's comments, having just returned from Arizona 3
      >days ago. Blue-throats were huge compared to Anna's. At the same time, the
      >first photo certainly looked like a Blue-throated Hummer to me. Hopefully,
      >there will be more confirmation by lucky birders.
      >Cheers,
      >Bruce Deuel
      >Red Bluff
      >
      >On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Bob & Carol Yutzy <boby@c-zone.
      ><mailto:boby%40c-zone.net> net> wrote:
      >
      >>
      >>
      >> Hello all,
      >>
      >> From our Arizona hummers experiences I am not sure larger properly
      >> defines Blue-throated Hummers compared to Anna's. They would more
      >> likely be described as huge or gigantic compared to Anna's - with huge
      >> long heavy bills. I haven't seen the photos but ............
      >>
      >> Bob Yutzy
      >>
      >> Bob & Carol Yutzy
      >> Shasta, CA
      >>
      >> Christopher Taylor wrote:
      >> > ----- Forwarded message from John Sterling <jsterling@wavecable
      ><mailto:jsterling%40wavecable.com> .com<jsterling%40wavecable.com>>
      >> -----
      >> >
      >> > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:44:14 -0700
      >> > From: John Sterling <jsterling@wavecable
      ><mailto:jsterling%40wavecable.com> .com <jsterling%40wavecable.com>
      >> >
      >> > Subject: RE: [kerncobirding] FW: [tularekingsbirds] Unknown Hummingbird
      >> at KRP with TCAS
      >> > To: 'Steve & Priscilla Summers' <summers@ocsnet.
      ><mailto:summers%40ocsnet.net> net<summers%40ocsnet.net>
      >> >,
      >> > kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      ><kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> > X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0
      >> > Message-ID: <0f8301c9f9aa$62a1b090$27e511b0$@com>
      >> >
      >> > Holy crap!!!! This is a Blue-throated Hummingbird.
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > John Sterling
      >> >
      >> > VVVVVVVVVV
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > 26 Palm Ave
      >> >
      >> > Woodland, CA 95695
      >> >
      >> > cell 530 908-3836
      >> >
      >> > jsterling@wavecable <mailto:jsterling%40wavecable.com> .com
      ><jsterling%40wavecable.com>
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > From: kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
      >yahoogroups.com <kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
      >> kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      ><kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>]
      >> > On Behalf Of Steve & Priscilla Summers
      >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:09 AM
      >> > To: kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
      >yahoogroups.com <kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> > Subject: [kerncobirding] FW: [tularekingsbirds] Unknown Hummingbird at
      >> KRP
      >> > with TCAS
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > I'm forwarding this message just posted on the Tularekingsbirds. The
      >> photos
      >> > are on the Tularekings groups photos under the Birds_I_Vue folder. They
      >> do
      >> > look very interesting! I think someone close by ought to check this out.
      >> I
      >> > believe the bird was photgraphed on Sat.(June 27).
      >> >
      >> > Steve Summers
      >> > Porterville, CA
      >> >
      >> > -----Original Message-----
      >> > From: tularekingsbirds@ <mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
      >yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> >
      ><mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%2540yahoogroups.
      >com>>
      >>
      >> > [mailto:tularekingsbirds@ <mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
      >yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> >
      ><mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%2540yahoogroups.
      >com>>
      >> ] On Behalf Of birds_i_vue
      >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:40 AM
      >> > To: tularekingsbirds@ <mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
      >yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> >
      ><mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%2540yahoogroups.
      >com>>
      >>
      >> > Subject: [tularekingsbirds] Unknown Hummingbird at KRP with TCAS
      >> >
      >> > This past weekend the TCAS visited Kern River Preserve. While at the
      >> > hummingbird feeder. I caugt these photos of the larger than the Anna's
      >> and
      >> > Blackchinned Hummingbirds at the same feeder. Note white undertail and
      >> > large size. I have the same feeder at home so tried to approximat
      >> > comparative size to Anna's and Blackchinned hummers. This individual is
      >> > definitley larger.
      >> > Bird was at feeder for only a few seconds before being chased away by
      >> Anna's
      >> > male. First picture was out of focus since I was focusing on closer
      >> > individual.
      >> >
      >> > Pictures are posted under Birds_I_Vue since I knew John wouldn't want
      >> them
      >> > in Tulare Kings file.
      >> >
      >> > Please help ID. I believe it to be a Blue-throated Hummingbird.
      >> >
      >> > ------------------------------------
      >> >
      >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > ------------------------------------
      >> >
      >> > To post a message to the group, email:
      >> > kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      ><kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> >
      >> > Message archives and files can be found at:
      >> > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kerncobirdingYahoo>
      >yahoo.com/group/kerncobirdingYahoo! Groups Links
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > ----- End forwarded message -----
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > ------------------------------------
      >> >
      >> > Unsubscribe: mailto:CALBIRDS-unsubscrib
      ><mailto:CALBIRDS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
      >e@yahoogroups.com<CALBIRDS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> > Website: http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CALBIRDS>
      >yahoo.com/group/CALBIRDS
      >> > Listowners: mailto:CALBIRDS-owner@
      ><mailto:CALBIRDS-owner%40yahoogroups.com>
      >yahoogroups.com<CALBIRDS-owner%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> >
      >> > For vacation suspension of mail go to the website. Click on Edit My
      >> Membership and set your mail option to No Email. Or, send a blank email to
      >> these addresses:
      >> > Turn off email delivery: mailto:CALBIRDS-nomail@
      ><mailto:CALBIRDS-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>
      >yahoogroups.com<CALBIRDS-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> > Resume email delivery: mailto:CALBIRDS-normal@
      ><mailto:CALBIRDS-normal%40yahoogroups.com>
      >yahoogroups.com<CALBIRDS-normal%40yahoogroups.com>
      >> >
      >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >> >
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      --
      Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA jmorlan (at) ccsf.edu
      SF Birding Classes start Sept. 15 http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/
      California Bird Records Committee http://www.californiabirds.org/
      Western Field Ornithologists http://www.westernfieldornithologists.org/
    • Alvaro Jaramillo
      Joe et al. Thanks for posting the photos. My personal opinion is that this is not a Blue-throated Hummingbird, it looks like a female Black-chinned Hummingbird
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 1, 2009
        Joe et al.

        Thanks for posting the photos. My personal opinion is that this is not a
        Blue-throated Hummingbird, it looks like a female Black-chinned Hummingbird
        to me. First of all, look at that broad, blunt and curved outer primary in
        the top photo, that is classic of Archilochus hummingbirds. Also the
        structure is like that of a small hummer, it just happens to be alert and
        with neck outstretched in the top photo. Furthermore, the structure does not
        look particularly long and large tailed. The facial pattern on Blue-throat
        should be that the dark is broader on the face, not just a restricted black
        loral line, the dark is broader before the eye, and behind the eye than on a
        Black-chinned; the pattern looks like Black-chinned to me. As well, there is
        a pale spot behind the eye on the California bird, but not a full stripe
        that heads down the side of the head, as there should be for Blue-throat.
        Finally the undertail covert pattern is not quite right, Blue-throats have
        dark longest undertail coverts, with white tips; this gives them a scaled
        look on the UT coverts. The California bird shows just a plain pale
        undertail covert area. Here is a photo to compare to:

        http://www.mdbrodie.com/birding/blue-throated.jpg

        Another: http://www.hummingbirds.net/species_images/bluethroatf.jpg

        Sorry to be such a stick in the mud, I don't like being the grinch at all,
        but this bird just does not look like a Blue-throated to me.

        Al

        Alvaro Jaramillo
        chucao@...
        Half Moon Bay, California

        Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
        www.fieldguides.com

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Joseph Morlan [mailto:jmorlan@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:55 PM
        To: Alvaro Jaramillo
        Cc: 'BRUCE DEUEL'; boby@...; ctaylor@...;
        CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Unknown Hummingbird

        All,

        The photos were posted on the Tulare/Kings email list and may be viewed at:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tularekingsbirds/photos/recent/list

        However, you may have to join the group to view the photos.

        For those who are not members and just want to see the photos, I have posted
        them temporarily at:

        http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/myhu062709.htm

        I asked for permission to post the photos, but have not yet received a reply
        from the photographer, so this web page may disappear any time.

        On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:05:48 -0700, "Alvaro Jaramillo"
        <chucao@...> wrote:

        >Folks,
        >
        > If the bird was not huge, that is a bad strike against
        >Blue-throated. Can someone put the photos up where they can be accessed
        publicly?
        >
        >thanks,
        >
        >Alvaro
        >
        >Alvaro Jaramillo
        >chucao@...
        >Half Moon Bay, California
        >
        >Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
        >www.fieldguides.com <http://www.fieldguides.com/>
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        >From: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com] On
        >Behalf Of BRUCE DEUEL
        >Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:56 PM
        >To: boby@...
        >Cc: ctaylor@...; CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Unknown Hummingbird
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >I would certainly second Bob's comments, having just returned from
        >Arizona 3 days ago. Blue-throats were huge compared to Anna's. At the
        >same time, the first photo certainly looked like a Blue-throated Hummer
        >to me. Hopefully, there will be more confirmation by lucky birders.
        >Cheers,
        >Bruce Deuel
        >Red Bluff
        >
        >On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Bob & Carol Yutzy <boby@c-zone.
        ><mailto:boby%40c-zone.net> net> wrote:
        >
        >>
        >>
        >> Hello all,
        >>
        >> From our Arizona hummers experiences I am not sure larger properly
        >> defines Blue-throated Hummers compared to Anna's. They would more
        >> likely be described as huge or gigantic compared to Anna's - with
        >> huge long heavy bills. I haven't seen the photos but ............
        >>
        >> Bob Yutzy
        >>
        >> Bob & Carol Yutzy
        >> Shasta, CA
        >>
        >> Christopher Taylor wrote:
        >> > ----- Forwarded message from John Sterling <jsterling@wavecable
        ><mailto:jsterling%40wavecable.com> .com<jsterling%40wavecable.com>>
        >> -----
        >> >
        >> > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:44:14 -0700
        >> > From: John Sterling <jsterling@wavecable
        ><mailto:jsterling%40wavecable.com> .com <jsterling%40wavecable.com>
        >> >
        >> > Subject: RE: [kerncobirding] FW: [tularekingsbirds] Unknown
        >> > Hummingbird
        >> at KRP with TCAS
        >> > To: 'Steve & Priscilla Summers' <summers@ocsnet.
        ><mailto:summers%40ocsnet.net> net<summers%40ocsnet.net>
        >> >,
        >> > kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
        >> >yahoogroups.com
        ><kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
        >> > X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0
        >> > Message-ID: <0f8301c9f9aa$62a1b090$27e511b0$@com>
        >> >
        >> > Holy crap!!!! This is a Blue-throated Hummingbird.
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > John Sterling
        >> >
        >> > VVVVVVVVVV
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > 26 Palm Ave
        >> >
        >> > Woodland, CA 95695
        >> >
        >> > cell 530 908-3836
        >> >
        >> > jsterling@wavecable <mailto:jsterling%40wavecable.com> .com
        ><jsterling%40wavecable.com>
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > From: kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
        >yahoogroups.com <kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
        >> kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
        >> yahoogroups.com
        ><kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>]
        >> > On Behalf Of Steve & Priscilla Summers
        >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:09 AM
        >> > To: kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
        >yahoogroups.com <kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
        >> > Subject: [kerncobirding] FW: [tularekingsbirds] Unknown Hummingbird
        >> > at
        >> KRP
        >> > with TCAS
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > I'm forwarding this message just posted on the Tularekingsbirds.
        >> > The
        >> photos
        >> > are on the Tularekings groups photos under the Birds_I_Vue folder.
        >> > They
        >> do
        >> > look very interesting! I think someone close by ought to check this
        out.
        >> I
        >> > believe the bird was photgraphed on Sat.(June 27).
        >> >
        >> > Steve Summers
        >> > Porterville, CA
        >> >
        >> > -----Original Message-----
        >> > From: tularekingsbirds@ <mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
        >yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
        >> >
        ><mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%2540yahoogroups
        .
        >com>>
        >>
        >> > [mailto:tularekingsbirds@
        >> > <mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
        >yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
        >> >
        ><mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%2540yahoogroups
        .
        >com>>
        >> ] On Behalf Of birds_i_vue
        >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:40 AM
        >> > To: tularekingsbirds@ <mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
        >yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
        >> >
        ><mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%2540yahoogroups
        .
        >com>>
        >>
        >> > Subject: [tularekingsbirds] Unknown Hummingbird at KRP with TCAS
        >> >
        >> > This past weekend the TCAS visited Kern River Preserve. While at
        >> > the hummingbird feeder. I caugt these photos of the larger than the
        >> > Anna's
        >> and
        >> > Blackchinned Hummingbirds at the same feeder. Note white undertail
        >> > and large size. I have the same feeder at home so tried to
        >> > approximat comparative size to Anna's and Blackchinned hummers.
        >> > This individual is definitley larger.
        >> > Bird was at feeder for only a few seconds before being chased away
        >> > by
        >> Anna's
        >> > male. First picture was out of focus since I was focusing on closer
        >> > individual.
        >> >
        >> > Pictures are posted under Birds_I_Vue since I knew John wouldn't
        >> > want
        >> them
        >> > in Tulare Kings file.
        >> >
        >> > Please help ID. I believe it to be a Blue-throated Hummingbird.
        >> >
        >> > ------------------------------------
        >> >
        >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > ------------------------------------
        >> >
        >> > To post a message to the group, email:
        >> > kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
        >> > yahoogroups.com
        ><kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
        >> >
        >> > Message archives and files can be found at:
        >> > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kerncobirdingYahoo>
        >yahoo.com/group/kerncobirdingYahoo! Groups Links
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > ----- End forwarded message -----
        >> >
        >> >
        >> > ------------------------------------
        >> >
        >> > Unsubscribe: mailto:CALBIRDS-unsubscrib
        ><mailto:CALBIRDS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
        >e@yahoogroups.com<CALBIRDS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
        >> > Website: http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CALBIRDS>
        >yahoo.com/group/CALBIRDS
        >> > Listowners: mailto:CALBIRDS-owner@
        ><mailto:CALBIRDS-owner%40yahoogroups.com>
        >yahoogroups.com<CALBIRDS-owner%40yahoogroups.com>
        >> >
        >> > For vacation suspension of mail go to the website. Click on Edit My
        >> Membership and set your mail option to No Email. Or, send a blank
        >> email to these addresses:
        >> > Turn off email delivery: mailto:CALBIRDS-nomail@
        ><mailto:CALBIRDS-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>
        >yahoogroups.com<CALBIRDS-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>
        >> > Resume email delivery: mailto:CALBIRDS-normal@
        ><mailto:CALBIRDS-normal%40yahoogroups.com>
        >yahoogroups.com<CALBIRDS-normal%40yahoogroups.com>
        >> >
        >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >> >
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

        --
        Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA jmorlan (at) ccsf.edu
        SF Birding Classes start Sept. 15 http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/ California
        Bird Records Committee http://www.californiabirds.org/
        Western Field Ornithologists
        http://www.westernfieldornithologists.org/
      • wagtail042000
        Williamson s , Hummingbirds of North America , cites a breeding record (no year given) for Tulare County.It does seem kind of small for a Blue-throated--but
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 1, 2009
          Williamson's ,"Hummingbirds of North America", cites a breeding record (no year given) for Tulare County.It does seem kind of small for a Blue-throated--but are juv. females smaller than adults? Craig Miller, McKinney, Tx
        • Todd Easterla
          Cal-Hummers, Here is two more cents.....This bird seems way to small for a Blue-throated Hummingbird to me. This bird also has no white line exteneding down
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 1, 2009
            Cal-Hummers,

            Here is two more cents.....This bird seems way to small for a Blue-throated Hummingbird to me. This bird also has no white line exteneding down from the eye. The white tips on the tail are not extensive enough. The tail is not near long enough.

            I agree with Alvaro that it is just a female Black-chinned Hummingbird.

            Todd Easterla


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Alvaro Jaramillo
            To: 'Joseph Morlan'
            Cc: 'BRUCE DEUEL' ; boby@... ; ctaylor@... ; CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 2:29 PM
            Subject: RE: [CALBIRDS] Unknown Hummingbird





            Joe et al.

            Thanks for posting the photos. My personal opinion is that this is not a
            Blue-throated Hummingbird, it looks like a female Black-chinned Hummingbird
            to me. First of all, look at that broad, blunt and curved outer primary in
            the top photo, that is classic of Archilochus hummingbirds. Also the
            structure is like that of a small hummer, it just happens to be alert and
            with neck outstretched in the top photo. Furthermore, the structure does not
            look particularly long and large tailed. The facial pattern on Blue-throat
            should be that the dark is broader on the face, not just a restricted black
            loral line, the dark is broader before the eye, and behind the eye than on a
            Black-chinned; the pattern looks like Black-chinned to me. As well, there is
            a pale spot behind the eye on the California bird, but not a full stripe
            that heads down the side of the head, as there should be for Blue-throat.
            Finally the undertail covert pattern is not quite right, Blue-throats have
            dark longest undertail coverts, with white tips; this gives them a scaled
            look on the UT coverts. The California bird shows just a plain pale
            undertail covert area. Here is a photo to compare to:

            http://www.mdbrodie.com/birding/blue-throated.jpg

            Another: http://www.hummingbirds.net/species_images/bluethroatf.jpg

            Sorry to be such a stick in the mud, I don't like being the grinch at all,
            but this bird just does not look like a Blue-throated to me.

            Al

            Alvaro Jaramillo
            chucao@...
            Half Moon Bay, California

            Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
            www.fieldguides.com

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Joseph Morlan [mailto:jmorlan@...]
            Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:55 PM
            To: Alvaro Jaramillo
            Cc: 'BRUCE DEUEL'; boby@...; ctaylor@...;
            CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Unknown Hummingbird

            All,

            The photos were posted on the Tulare/Kings email list and may be viewed at:

            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tularekingsbirds/photos/recent/list

            However, you may have to join the group to view the photos.

            For those who are not members and just want to see the photos, I have posted
            them temporarily at:

            http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/myhu062709.htm

            I asked for permission to post the photos, but have not yet received a reply
            from the photographer, so this web page may disappear any time.

            On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:05:48 -0700, "Alvaro Jaramillo"
            <chucao@...> wrote:

            >Folks,
            >
            > If the bird was not huge, that is a bad strike against
            >Blue-throated. Can someone put the photos up where they can be accessed
            publicly?
            >
            >thanks,
            >
            >Alvaro
            >
            >Alvaro Jaramillo
            >chucao@...
            >Half Moon Bay, California
            >
            >Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
            >www.fieldguides.com <http://www.fieldguides.com/>
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            >From: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com] On
            >Behalf Of BRUCE DEUEL
            >Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:56 PM
            >To: boby@...
            >Cc: ctaylor@...; CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Unknown Hummingbird
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >I would certainly second Bob's comments, having just returned from
            >Arizona 3 days ago. Blue-throats were huge compared to Anna's. At the
            >same time, the first photo certainly looked like a Blue-throated Hummer
            >to me. Hopefully, there will be more confirmation by lucky birders.
            >Cheers,
            >Bruce Deuel
            >Red Bluff
            >
            >On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Bob & Carol Yutzy <boby@c-zone.
            ><mailto:boby%40c-zone.net> net> wrote:
            >
            >>
            >>
            >> Hello all,
            >>
            >> From our Arizona hummers experiences I am not sure larger properly
            >> defines Blue-throated Hummers compared to Anna's. They would more
            >> likely be described as huge or gigantic compared to Anna's - with
            >> huge long heavy bills. I haven't seen the photos but ............
            >>
            >> Bob Yutzy
            >>
            >> Bob & Carol Yutzy
            >> Shasta, CA
            >>
            >> Christopher Taylor wrote:
            >> > ----- Forwarded message from John Sterling <jsterling@wavecable
            ><mailto:jsterling%40wavecable.com> .com<jsterling%40wavecable.com>>
            >> -----
            >> >
            >> > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:44:14 -0700
            >> > From: John Sterling <jsterling@wavecable
            ><mailto:jsterling%40wavecable.com> .com <jsterling%40wavecable.com>
            >> >
            >> > Subject: RE: [kerncobirding] FW: [tularekingsbirds] Unknown
            >> > Hummingbird
            >> at KRP with TCAS
            >> > To: 'Steve & Priscilla Summers' <summers@ocsnet.
            ><mailto:summers%40ocsnet.net> net<summers%40ocsnet.net>
            >> >,
            >> > kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> >yahoogroups.com
            ><kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> > X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0
            >> > Message-ID: <0f8301c9f9aa$62a1b090$27e511b0$@com>
            >> >
            >> > Holy crap!!!! This is a Blue-throated Hummingbird.
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > John Sterling
            >> >
            >> > VVVVVVVVVV
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > 26 Palm Ave
            >> >
            >> > Woodland, CA 95695
            >> >
            >> > cell 530 908-3836
            >> >
            >> > jsterling@wavecable <mailto:jsterling%40wavecable.com> .com
            ><jsterling%40wavecable.com>
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > From: kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
            >yahoogroups.com <kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
            >> kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> yahoogroups.com
            ><kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>]
            >> > On Behalf Of Steve & Priscilla Summers
            >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:09 AM
            >> > To: kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
            >yahoogroups.com <kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> > Subject: [kerncobirding] FW: [tularekingsbirds] Unknown Hummingbird
            >> > at
            >> KRP
            >> > with TCAS
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > I'm forwarding this message just posted on the Tularekingsbirds.
            >> > The
            >> photos
            >> > are on the Tularekings groups photos under the Birds_I_Vue folder.
            >> > They
            >> do
            >> > look very interesting! I think someone close by ought to check this
            out.
            >> I
            >> > believe the bird was photgraphed on Sat.(June 27).
            >> >
            >> > Steve Summers
            >> > Porterville, CA
            >> >
            >> > -----Original Message-----
            >> > From: tularekingsbirds@ <mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
            >yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> >
            ><mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%2540yahoogroups
            .
            >com>>
            >>
            >> > [mailto:tularekingsbirds@
            >> > <mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
            >yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> >
            ><mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%2540yahoogroups
            .
            >com>>
            >> ] On Behalf Of birds_i_vue
            >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:40 AM
            >> > To: tularekingsbirds@ <mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
            >yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> >
            ><mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%2540yahoogroups
            .
            >com>>
            >>
            >> > Subject: [tularekingsbirds] Unknown Hummingbird at KRP with TCAS
            >> >
            >> > This past weekend the TCAS visited Kern River Preserve. While at
            >> > the hummingbird feeder. I caugt these photos of the larger than the
            >> > Anna's
            >> and
            >> > Blackchinned Hummingbirds at the same feeder. Note white undertail
            >> > and large size. I have the same feeder at home so tried to
            >> > approximat comparative size to Anna's and Blackchinned hummers.
            >> > This individual is definitley larger.
            >> > Bird was at feeder for only a few seconds before being chased away
            >> > by
            >> Anna's
            >> > male. First picture was out of focus since I was focusing on closer
            >> > individual.
            >> >
            >> > Pictures are posted under Birds_I_Vue since I knew John wouldn't
            >> > want
            >> them
            >> > in Tulare Kings file.
            >> >
            >> > Please help ID. I believe it to be a Blue-throated Hummingbird.
            >> >
            >> > ------------------------------------
            >> >
            >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > ------------------------------------
            >> >
            >> > To post a message to the group, email:
            >> > kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> > yahoogroups.com
            ><kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> >
            >> > Message archives and files can be found at:
            >> > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kerncobirdingYahoo>
            >yahoo.com/group/kerncobirdingYahoo! Groups Links
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > ----- End forwarded message -----
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > ------------------------------------
            >> >
            >> > Unsubscribe: mailto:CALBIRDS-unsubscrib
            ><mailto:CALBIRDS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
            >e@yahoogroups.com<CALBIRDS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> > Website: http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CALBIRDS>
            >yahoo.com/group/CALBIRDS
            >> > Listowners: mailto:CALBIRDS-owner@
            ><mailto:CALBIRDS-owner%40yahoogroups.com>
            >yahoogroups.com<CALBIRDS-owner%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> >
            >> > For vacation suspension of mail go to the website. Click on Edit My
            >> Membership and set your mail option to No Email. Or, send a blank
            >> email to these addresses:
            >> > Turn off email delivery: mailto:CALBIRDS-nomail@
            ><mailto:CALBIRDS-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>
            >yahoogroups.com<CALBIRDS-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> > Resume email delivery: mailto:CALBIRDS-normal@
            ><mailto:CALBIRDS-normal%40yahoogroups.com>
            >yahoogroups.com<CALBIRDS-normal%40yahoogroups.com>
            >> >
            >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            --
            Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA jmorlan (at) ccsf.edu
            SF Birding Classes start Sept. 15 http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/ California
            Bird Records Committee http://www.californiabirds.org/
            Western Field Ornithologists
            http://www.westernfieldornithologists.org/





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • John Sterling
            I took another look at the photos and zoomed in closer. I agree with Al and Todd. Sorry to create a scare. The bird looked huge to me in the photo and the
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 1, 2009
              I took another look at the photos and zoomed in closer. I agree with Al and
              Todd. Sorry to create a scare. The bird looked huge to me in the photo and
              the tail looked very long as well, but I guess that is due to the photo
              distorting the relative size. It is not the first time that I made a
              mistake on relative size in a photo! Again, I apologize.



              John Sterling

              VVVVVVVVVV



              26 Palm Ave

              Woodland, CA 95695

              cell 530 908-3836

              jsterling@...





              From: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com [mailto:CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              Of Todd Easterla
              Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 3:15 PM
              To: 'Joseph Morlan'; Alvaro Jaramillo
              Cc: 'BRUCE DEUEL'; boby@...; ctaylor@...;
              CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Unknown Hummingbird








              Cal-Hummers,

              Here is two more cents.....This bird seems way to small for a Blue-throated
              Hummingbird to me. This bird also has no white line exteneding down from the
              eye. The white tips on the tail are not extensive enough. The tail is not
              near long enough.

              I agree with Alvaro that it is just a female Black-chinned Hummingbird.

              Todd Easterla

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Alvaro Jaramillo
              To: 'Joseph Morlan'
              Cc: 'BRUCE DEUEL' ; boby@... <mailto:boby%40c-zone.net> ;
              ctaylor@... <mailto:ctaylor%40kiwifoto.com> ;
              CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CALBIRDS%40yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 2:29 PM
              Subject: RE: [CALBIRDS] Unknown Hummingbird

              Joe et al.

              Thanks for posting the photos. My personal opinion is that this is not a
              Blue-throated Hummingbird, it looks like a female Black-chinned Hummingbird
              to me. First of all, look at that broad, blunt and curved outer primary in
              the top photo, that is classic of Archilochus hummingbirds. Also the
              structure is like that of a small hummer, it just happens to be alert and
              with neck outstretched in the top photo. Furthermore, the structure does not
              look particularly long and large tailed. The facial pattern on Blue-throat
              should be that the dark is broader on the face, not just a restricted black
              loral line, the dark is broader before the eye, and behind the eye than on a
              Black-chinned; the pattern looks like Black-chinned to me. As well, there is
              a pale spot behind the eye on the California bird, but not a full stripe
              that heads down the side of the head, as there should be for Blue-throat.
              Finally the undertail covert pattern is not quite right, Blue-throats have
              dark longest undertail coverts, with white tips; this gives them a scaled
              look on the UT coverts. The California bird shows just a plain pale
              undertail covert area. Here is a photo to compare to:

              http://www.mdbrodie.com/birding/blue-throated.jpg

              Another: http://www.hummingbirds.net/species_images/bluethroatf.jpg

              Sorry to be such a stick in the mud, I don't like being the grinch at all,
              but this bird just does not look like a Blue-throated to me.

              Al

              Alvaro Jaramillo
              chucao@... <mailto:chucao%40coastside.net>
              Half Moon Bay, California

              Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
              www.fieldguides.com

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Joseph Morlan [mailto:jmorlan@... <mailto:jmorlan%40gmail.com> ]

              Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 1:55 PM
              To: Alvaro Jaramillo
              Cc: 'BRUCE DEUEL'; boby@... <mailto:boby%40c-zone.net> ;
              ctaylor@... <mailto:ctaylor%40kiwifoto.com> ;
              CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CALBIRDS%40yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Unknown Hummingbird

              All,

              The photos were posted on the Tulare/Kings email list and may be viewed at:

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tularekingsbirds/photos/recent/list

              However, you may have to join the group to view the photos.

              For those who are not members and just want to see the photos, I have posted
              them temporarily at:

              http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/myhu062709.htm

              I asked for permission to post the photos, but have not yet received a reply
              from the photographer, so this web page may disappear any time.

              On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:05:48 -0700, "Alvaro Jaramillo"
              <chucao@... <mailto:chucao%40coastside.net> > wrote:

              >Folks,
              >
              > If the bird was not huge, that is a bad strike against
              >Blue-throated. Can someone put the photos up where they can be accessed
              publicly?
              >
              >thanks,
              >
              >Alvaro
              >
              >Alvaro Jaramillo
              >chucao@... <mailto:chucao%40coastside.net>
              >Half Moon Bay, California
              >
              >Field Guides - Birding Tours Worldwide
              >www.fieldguides.com <http://www.fieldguides.com/>
              >
              >
              > _____
              >
              >From: CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CALBIRDS%40yahoogroups.com>
              [mailto:CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CALBIRDS%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
              >Behalf Of BRUCE DEUEL
              >Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:56 PM
              >To: boby@... <mailto:boby%40c-zone.net>
              >Cc: ctaylor@... <mailto:ctaylor%40kiwifoto.com> ;
              CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com <mailto:CALBIRDS%40yahoogroups.com>
              >Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Unknown Hummingbird
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >I would certainly second Bob's comments, having just returned from
              >Arizona 3 days ago. Blue-throats were huge compared to Anna's. At the
              >same time, the first photo certainly looked like a Blue-throated Hummer
              >to me. Hopefully, there will be more confirmation by lucky birders.
              >Cheers,
              >Bruce Deuel
              >Red Bluff
              >
              >On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Bob & Carol Yutzy <boby@c-zone.
              ><mailto:boby%40c-zone.net> net> wrote:
              >
              >>
              >>
              >> Hello all,
              >>
              >> From our Arizona hummers experiences I am not sure larger properly
              >> defines Blue-throated Hummers compared to Anna's. They would more
              >> likely be described as huge or gigantic compared to Anna's - with
              >> huge long heavy bills. I haven't seen the photos but ............
              >>
              >> Bob Yutzy
              >>
              >> Bob & Carol Yutzy
              >> Shasta, CA
              >>
              >> Christopher Taylor wrote:
              >> > ----- Forwarded message from John Sterling <jsterling@wavecable
              ><mailto:jsterling%40wavecable.com> .com<jsterling%40wavecable.com>>
              >> -----
              >> >
              >> > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:44:14 -0700
              >> > From: John Sterling <jsterling@wavecable
              ><mailto:jsterling%40wavecable.com> .com <jsterling%40wavecable.com>
              >> >
              >> > Subject: RE: [kerncobirding] FW: [tularekingsbirds] Unknown
              >> > Hummingbird
              >> at KRP with TCAS
              >> > To: 'Steve & Priscilla Summers' <summers@ocsnet.
              ><mailto:summers%40ocsnet.net> net<summers%40ocsnet.net>
              >> >,
              >> > kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
              >> >yahoogroups.com
              ><kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
              >> > X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 12.0
              >> > Message-ID: <0f8301c9f9aa$62a1b090$27e511b0$@com>
              >> >
              >> > Holy crap!!!! This is a Blue-throated Hummingbird.
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > John Sterling
              >> >
              >> > VVVVVVVVVV
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > 26 Palm Ave
              >> >
              >> > Woodland, CA 95695
              >> >
              >> > cell 530 908-3836
              >> >
              >> > jsterling@wavecable <mailto:jsterling%40wavecable.com> .com
              ><jsterling%40wavecable.com>
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > From: kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
              >yahoogroups.com <kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>[mailto:
              >> kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
              >> yahoogroups.com
              ><kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>]
              >> > On Behalf Of Steve & Priscilla Summers
              >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:09 AM
              >> > To: kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
              >yahoogroups.com <kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
              >> > Subject: [kerncobirding] FW: [tularekingsbirds] Unknown Hummingbird
              >> > at
              >> KRP
              >> > with TCAS
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > I'm forwarding this message just posted on the Tularekingsbirds.
              >> > The
              >> photos
              >> > are on the Tularekings groups photos under the Birds_I_Vue folder.
              >> > They
              >> do
              >> > look very interesting! I think someone close by ought to check this
              out.
              >> I
              >> > believe the bird was photgraphed on Sat.(June 27).
              >> >
              >> > Steve Summers
              >> > Porterville, CA
              >> >
              >> > -----Original Message-----
              >> > From: tularekingsbirds@ <mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
              >yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
              >> >
              ><mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%2540yahoogroups
              .
              >com>>
              >>
              >> > [mailto:tularekingsbirds@
              >> > <mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
              >yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
              >> >
              ><mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%2540yahoogroups
              .
              >com>>
              >> ] On Behalf Of birds_i_vue
              >> > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:40 AM
              >> > To: tularekingsbirds@ <mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
              >yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com>
              >> >
              ><mailto:tularekingsbirds%40yahoogroups.com<tularekingsbirds%2540yahoogroups
              .
              >com>>
              >>
              >> > Subject: [tularekingsbirds] Unknown Hummingbird at KRP with TCAS
              >> >
              >> > This past weekend the TCAS visited Kern River Preserve. While at
              >> > the hummingbird feeder. I caugt these photos of the larger than the
              >> > Anna's
              >> and
              >> > Blackchinned Hummingbirds at the same feeder. Note white undertail
              >> > and large size. I have the same feeder at home so tried to
              >> > approximat comparative size to Anna's and Blackchinned hummers.
              >> > This individual is definitley larger.
              >> > Bird was at feeder for only a few seconds before being chased away
              >> > by
              >> Anna's
              >> > male. First picture was out of focus since I was focusing on closer
              >> > individual.
              >> >
              >> > Pictures are posted under Birds_I_Vue since I knew John wouldn't
              >> > want
              >> them
              >> > in Tulare Kings file.
              >> >
              >> > Please help ID. I believe it to be a Blue-throated Hummingbird.
              >> >
              >> > ------------------------------------
              >> >
              >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > ------------------------------------
              >> >
              >> > To post a message to the group, email:
              >> > kerncobirding@ <mailto:kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
              >> > yahoogroups.com
              ><kerncobirding%40yahoogroups.com>
              >> >
              >> > Message archives and files can be found at:
              >> > http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kerncobirdingYahoo>
              >yahoo.com/group/kerncobirdingYahoo! Groups Links
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > ----- End forwarded message -----
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > ------------------------------------
              >> >
              >> > Unsubscribe: mailto:CALBIRDS-unsubscrib
              ><mailto:CALBIRDS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
              >e@yahoogroups.com <mailto:e%40yahoogroups.com>
              <CALBIRDS-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
              >> > Website: http://groups. <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CALBIRDS>
              >yahoo.com/group/CALBIRDS
              >> > Listowners: mailto:CALBIRDS-owner@
              ><mailto:CALBIRDS-owner%40yahoogroups.com>
              >yahoogroups.com<CALBIRDS-owner%40yahoogroups.com>
              >> >
              >> > For vacation suspension of mail go to the website. Click on Edit My
              >> Membership and set your mail option to No Email. Or, send a blank
              >> email to these addresses:
              >> > Turn off email delivery: mailto:CALBIRDS-nomail@
              ><mailto:CALBIRDS-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>
              >yahoogroups.com<CALBIRDS-nomail%40yahoogroups.com>
              >> > Resume email delivery: mailto:CALBIRDS-normal@
              ><mailto:CALBIRDS-normal%40yahoogroups.com>
              >yahoogroups.com<CALBIRDS-normal%40yahoogroups.com>
              >> >
              >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

              --
              Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA jmorlan (at) ccsf.edu
              SF Birding Classes start Sept. 15 http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/ California
              Bird Records Committee http://www.californiabirds.org/
              Western Field Ornithologists
              http://www.westernfieldornithologists.org/

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Coddlers@aol.com
              No need to apologise at all John. I really appreciate the early alert to a possible mega-rarity - as well as the subsequent education. Thanks Bruce Barrett San
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 1, 2009
                No need to apologise at all John.

                I really appreciate the early alert to a possible mega-rarity - as well as
                the subsequent education.

                Thanks

                Bruce Barrett
                San Jose, CA


                In a message dated 01/07/2009 15:39:56 Pacific Daylight Time,
                jsterling@... writes:

                I took another look at the photos and zoomed in closer. I agree with Al and
                Todd. Sorry to create a scare. The bird looked huge to me in the photo and
                the tail looked very long as well, but I guess that is due to the photo
                distorting the relative size. It is not the first time that I made a
                mistake on relative size in a photo! Again, I apologize.

                John Sterling


                **************It's raining cats and dogs -- Come to PawNation, a place
                where pets rule! (http://www.pawnation.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000008)


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • enoluvr
                Hey group, I was unfortunate enough to have spent the whole day in front of the feeders at Kern River Preserve without luck and now I can see why. The bird
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 1, 2009
                  Hey group, I was unfortunate enough to have spent the whole day in front of the feeders at Kern River Preserve without luck and now I can see why. The bird never existed! So it seems. When I first saw the photos on line Blue-throated Hummingbird did not come to mind. But since people who seemed to know what they were talking claimed it was I decided to go. I was planning on going up there this week anyways, so I went, sweated and never added the bird to my state list. Duh! In fact, I saw a number of Black-chinned Hummers and said that looks like the bird in the photos.

                  On another note, there was a broad-tailed hummer seen by myself (not staking a claim on seeing it first) and a number of birders around 715am or so.

                  Gary Edelman
                  Santa Clarita, CA
                • Joseph Morlan
                  A colleague suggested I post this to the group. There is a phenomenon in size illusion where a rear object appears larger than a front object of the same size
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 2, 2009
                    A colleague suggested I post this to the group.

                    There is a phenomenon in size illusion where a rear object appears larger
                    than a front object of the same size when seen through binoculars, scope or
                    long camera lens. The actual foreshortening caused by the vanishing point
                    perspective doesn't change, but the magnification makes everything appear
                    closer so relative sizes become distorted. The illusion is apparent in
                    life and in photos.

                    Try viewing a rectangular piece of paper edge-on with binoculars. Put the
                    paper on a table and step back until you can get the paper in focus in your
                    binoculars. If you do it right, the paper will appear to be expanded
                    towards the back, like a trapezoid.

                    The effect is most evident when the paper is close to you, because the
                    amount of expected foreshortening of the back object is greater under that
                    geometry. The actual foreshortening is less, resulting in the illusion
                    that the back object (bird) is larger than the front. This is why even
                    relative size can be difficult or impossible to judge, even when two birds
                    are seen or photographed together for direct comparison.

                    The late Peter Grant wrote a paper on the subject in "British Birds" many
                    years ago and I was one of his study participants.

                    Reference:

                    Grant, P. J. 1983. Size illusion in birds. Br. Birds 76:327–334.

                    --
                    Joseph Morlan, Pacifica, CA jmorlan (at) ccsf.edu
                    SF Birding Classes start Sept. 15 http://fog.ccsf.edu/~jmorlan/
                    California Bird Records Committee http://www.californiabirds.org/
                    Western Field Ornithologists http://www.westernfieldornithologists.org/
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