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Re: News from the California Bird Records Committee

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  • borodayko2000
    I m in the camp of being cautious of adding exotics to the official list. Because the gene pool is limited, it is possible for the specie to die out even if it
    Message 1 of 25 , Sep 5, 2013
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      I'm in the camp of being cautious of adding exotics to the official list. Because the gene pool is limited, it is possible for the specie to die out even if it was abundant at one time. A case in point is the Crested Myna in Vancouver, BC. It was abundant and is now extirpated. The Spotted Dove is heading in that direction. We don't need extirpated species on the state list.

      The one time vagrants are common elsewhere so one could return again unaided. The only way to have exotics return is to release some more pets into the wild. That is not a good thing.

      Regards, Al Borodayko
      Cypress, CA

      --- In CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Aguillard <dwaguillard@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ali,
      >
      > I also have wondered the same. The Lilac-crowned population in San Diego
      > seems to be a 2-1 larger than the Red-crowned. The Magpie Jays in the
      > Tijuana River valley have been around for over 10 years, and the population
      > does grow and move around the south County, but will probably never make
      > the list.
      >
      > But with all things, the CBRC and ABA only have the power, when your
      > willing to let them have it. So you can make up your own State list if you
      > wish to.
      >
      > Doug Aguillard
      > San Diego, CA
      > dwaguillard@...
      >
      > On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Ali Sheehey <natureali@...> wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > > Birders.
      > >
      > > I continue to wonder about the bias against accepting non-migratory
      > > established exotics. When a well documented vagrant with a single
      > > occurrence is countable but psittacid populations that continue to
      > > experience exponential growth are not considered because of limited
      > > geographic distribution owing to their non migratory habits, I scratch my
      > > head.
      > >
      > > As the documenter of Bakersfield's Rose-ringed Parakeet population, it
      > > becomes apparent that even though this population has satisfied every
      > > criteria for inclusion, it remains off the California list.
      > >
      > > Other populations within the state of this species may not be stable owing
      > > to competition from other more robust psittacid species but the Bakersfield
      > > population does not have the same pressure.
      > >
      > > I wouldn't be comfortable including rose-rings on my list beyond
      > > Bakersfield but I would add Nanday Parakeet from Malibu or Lilac-crowned
      > > Parrot from Temple City. The establishment of these birds is highly
      > > localized but stable by all accounts.
      > >
      > > IMHO, if one is going to have any exotics on the list, then all that meet
      > > the criteria as established should be considered without bias.
      > >
      > > Respectfully yours in nature,
      > >
      > > Ali
      > >
      > > Alison Sheehey
      > > PO Box 153
      > > Weldon, CA 93283
      > >
      > > natureali@...
      > > www.facebook.com/NaturesAli
      > > www.natureali.org
      > > www.flickr.com/photos/natureali
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > Doug Aguillard
      > Photojournalist
      > military-fotos.com <http://www.military-fotos.com>
      > militarypress.cm
      > photorecon.net <http://www.photorecon.net>
      > San Diego, CA
      > dwaguillard@...
      >
    • Kurt Radamaker
      Hi Doug, Ali   Before Rosy-faced Lovebird A.K.A Peach-faced Lovebird was officially accepted to the ABA list in 2012, as a member of the Arizona Bird
      Message 2 of 25 , Sep 5, 2013
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        Hi Doug, Ali
         
        Before Rosy-faced Lovebird A.K.A Peach-faced Lovebird was officially accepted to the ABA list in 2012, as a member of the Arizona Bird Committee, I often had birders ask me why the Lovebird was not on the Arizona or ABA List. It was clear to AZ birders that Rosy-faced Lovebirds had been established for a long time and had a viable and expanding population in Phoenix. Birders around PHX would see them all the time, and they were hard to miss at popular birding locations like the Gilbert Water Ranch.
         
        The reason they were not on the AZ State or ABA list was simple. No one had done the research and work to consolidate Lovebird information and publish the results. So around 2008 I decided to research the Lovebird and publish my findings. The first step was to determine the population size and range, so I set up a Lovebird Census in 2009. 65 people participated and we found around 1000 lovebirds that day. Troy Corman and I researched the Lovebirds for the next year and published our results in the peer-reviewed Journal Arizona Birds Online http://www.azfo.org/journal/Rosy-facedLovebird2011.html
         
        After our research was published, we submitted our findings to the Arizona Bird Committee (ABC) for acceptance to the Arizona State List. On 28 December 2011, the Rosy-faced Lovebird was accepted to the Arizona State List http://abc.azfo.org/news/default.html
         
        Once Rosy-faced Lovebird was accepted by the ABC, I submitted a formal request to the ABA-CLC to review Rosy-faced Lovebird for acceptance to the ABA list. The submission and journal article were reviewed and Rosy-faced Lovebird was accepted.
         
        I don't believe bird records committee have any negative bias toward exotics. It is just much harder (requires research, writing, and commitment) to determine whether an exotic species is established over a vagrant occurring in the state. To determine if an exotic is established may take years, the ABA-CLC requires at least 15 years.
         
        So, if you believe Rose-ringed Parakeets or Black-throated Magpie Jays meet the ABA-CLC criteria http://aba.org/checklist/exotics.html I encourage you to do a census, research, publish and submit your findings to the California Bird Records Committee. I'm sure the CBRC would welcome it. I know the Arizona Bird Committee would.
         
        Best
         
        Kurt Radamaker
        Cave Creek, AZ
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
         
      • Ed Stonick
        HI Kurt! That s a good and important idea--to have the science behind the establishment of a new species for the list. Just wondering if anyone s studied the
        Message 3 of 25 , Sep 5, 2013
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          HI Kurt!

          That's a good and important idea--to have the science behind the establishment of a new species for the list.

          Just wondering if anyone's studied the Orange Bishop.  Seems that species has been around about as long as the Mannikin albeit in smaller numbers.

          Regards,
          Ed

          Ed Stonick
          Pasadena, CA

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Kurt Radamaker
          Sent: Sep 5, 2013 12:28 PM
          To: "calbirds@yahoogroups.com"
          Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Re: News from the California Bird Records Committee

           

          Hi Doug, Ali
           
          Before Rosy-faced Lovebird A.K.A Peach-faced Lovebird was officially accepted to the ABA list in 2012, as a member of the Arizona Bird Committee, I often had birders ask me why the Lovebird was not on the Arizona or ABA List. It was clear to AZ birders that Rosy-faced Lovebirds had been established for a long time and had a viable and expanding population in Phoenix. Birders around PHX would see them all the time, and they were hard to miss at popular birding locations like the Gilbert Water Ranch.
           
          The reason they were not on the AZ State or ABA list was simple. No one had done the research and work to consolidate Lovebird information and publish the results. So around 2008 I decided to research the Lovebird and publish my findings. The first step was to determine the population size and range, so I set up a Lovebird Census in 2009. 65 people participated and we found around 1000 lovebirds that day. Troy Corman and I researched the Lovebirds for the next year and published our results in the peer-reviewed Journal Arizona Birds Online http://www.azfo.org/journal/Rosy-facedLovebird2011.html
           
          After our research was published, we submitted our findings to the Arizona Bird Committee (ABC) for acceptance to the Arizona State List. On 28 December 2011, the Rosy-faced Lovebird was accepted to the Arizona State List http://abc.azfo.org/news/default.html
           
          Once Rosy-faced Lovebird was accepted by the ABC, I submitted a formal request to the ABA-CLC to review Rosy-faced Lovebird for acceptance to the ABA list. The submission and journal article were reviewed and Rosy-faced Lovebird was accepted.
           
          I don't believe bird records committee have any negative bias toward exotics. It is just much harder (requires research, writing, and commitment) to determine whether an exotic species is established over a vagrant occurring in the state. To determine if an exotic is established may take years, the ABA-CLC requires at least 15 years.
           
          So, if you believe Rose-ringed Parakeets or Black-throated Magpie Jays meet the ABA-CLC criteria http://aba.org/checklist/exotics.html I encourage you to do a census, research, publish and submit your findings to the California Bird Records Committee. I'm sure the CBRC would welcome it. I know the Arizona Bird Committee would.
           
          Best
           
          Kurt Radamaker
          Cave Creek, AZ
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           

          
          Regards,
          Ed
          
          Ed Stonick
          Pasadena, CA
          edstonick@...
        • John Sterling
          When I first started birding in 1971, Blue-gray Tanager was in the field guide because of its population in Florida which has since disappeared. Didn t the
          Message 4 of 25 , Sep 5, 2013
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            When I first started birding in 1971, Blue-gray Tanager was in the field guide because of its population in Florida which has since disappeared.  Didn't the Black Francolin population die out shortly after the species was accepted on the ABA list for North America? 
            These two additional examples, along with those mentioned by Steve Hampton below,  illustrate the difficulty in determining whether introduced species should be viewed as fully established. 

            Maybe we should relax the criteria and accept many more exotic species on the list as I see no compelling reason not to in light of historical crashes of some "established" species.  Why not add the many parrots in CA to the state list along with Magpie Jay, Pin-tailed Whydah, Red Bishops and others?  Why go to the extra time and effort to demonstrate whether populations are "established" based upon criteria that are somewhat arbitrary.  Just accept them to the state list and let the army of eBirders and other birders document their population status?  If an exotic species is "extirpated", so what?  Just remove it from the list.

            If you are worried about fluctuations on your state, life, county etc lists, then just count native species on your list and keep a separate list for non-native species. Seems like a simple way to deal with this issue.

            John

            John Sterling
            VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

            26 Palm Ave
            Woodland, CA 95695
            530 908-3836
            jsterling@...
            www.sterlingbirds.com

            On Sep 5, 2013, at 12:10 PM, Steve Hampton <stevechampton@...> wrote:

             

            Good discussion about when to accept non-natives as established.  

            The removal of Ringed Turtle Dove from the ABA list, the crash of Crested Mynas, and the recent crash of Spotted Doves also causes one to pause, as these examples suggest that the population dynamics of some species, depending on their ecological context, follow much longer patterns of expansion and collapse than we might expect.  Thus, what appears to be "established" might just be circling the drain.  





            On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Douglas Aguillard <dwaguillard@...> wrote:
             

            Ali,
             
            I also have wondered the same. The Lilac-crowned population in San Diego seems to be a 2-1 larger than the Red-crowned. The Magpie Jays in the Tijuana River valley have been around for over 10 years, and the population does grow and move around the south County, but will probably never make the list.
             
            But with all things, the CBRC and ABA only have the power, when your willing to let them have it. So you can make up your own State list if you wish to.
             
            Doug Aguillard
            San Diego, CA
            On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Ali Sheehey <natureali@...> wrote:
             

            Birders.

            I continue to wonder about the bias against accepting non-migratory established exotics. When a well documented vagrant with a single occurrence is countable but psittacid populations that continue to experience exponential growth are not considered because of limited geographic distribution owing to their non migratory habits, I scratch my head.

            As the documenter of Bakersfield's Rose-ringed Parakeet population, it becomes apparent that even though this population has satisfied every criteria for inclusion, it remains off the California list.

            Other populations within the state of this species may not be stable owing to competition from other more robust psittacid species but the Bakersfield population does not have the same pressure.

            I wouldn't be comfortable including rose-rings on my list beyond Bakersfield but I would add Nanday Parakeet from Malibu or Lilac-crowned Parrot from Temple City. The establishment of these birds is highly localized but stable by all accounts.

            IMHO, if one is going to have any exotics on the list, then all that meet the criteria as established should be considered without bias.

            Respectfully yours in nature,

            Ali

            Alison Sheehey
            PO Box 153
            Weldon, CA 93283

            natureali@...
            www.facebook.com/NaturesAli
            www.natureali.org
            www.flickr.com/photos/natureali




            --
            Doug Aguillard
            Photojournalist
            San Diego, CA
             




            --
            Steve Hampton
            Davis, CA


          • Elias Elias
            Yes. It is a discussion which fascinates me. But at the risk of sounding xenophobic, I ll pipe up with a viewpoint that doesn t get a lot of air time. It my
            Message 5 of 25 , Sep 5, 2013
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              Yes. It is a discussion which fascinates me. But at the risk of sounding xenophobic, I'll pipe up with a viewpoint that doesn't get a lot of air time. It my opinion, we birders (at least those among us who leave a record of what we encounter) have an obligation to count, document and publicize _every_ species in our area of interest. Every correctly identified species that is alive or dead, free-flying or caged. Radical? yes! After all, the total number of species of birds in the universe is finite. Obligation is a strong sentiment but I believe it is justified by the need to monitor ecosystems for invaders. I understand that Florida has a potential problem on its hands with the introduction and establishment of the Burmese python. Only time with tell, how this will play out. Perhaps there has been or will be some addition to our avifauna that stands to irrevocably alter our ecosystems here. I argue that it is important to pay attention. Of course we have learned that it is more critical to pay attention on islands. But I feel we ought to be in the habit of doing the same on the continents as well. Because ecosystems are a lot like islands.

              This tenant of conservation biology has been known in limited circles for decades but there is no reason why it ought not become a mainstream household concept. And it goes hand-in-hand with circumscribing behaviors in the pet trade, zoological gardens and tourist traps. Just look what happened when we didn't pay attention to the brown tree snake on Guam. How many species have become extinct through this disastrous introduction? As somebody said: the biggest problem in the world could have been solved when it was small. I just wish that the state record committees and the ABA incentivized counting the one off escapes/releases. Now that we have eBird.org we have the mechanism to publicize. 

              Flock on!

              Elias/Ηλίας
              Arcata CA/San Diego CA
              Walkie talkie primero=707-633-8833
              Last ditch alternate=559-433-7254


              On Sep 5, 2013, at 12:11, Steve Hampton <stevechampton@...> wrote:



              Good discussion about when to accept non-natives as established.  

              The removal of Ringed Turtle Dove from the ABA list, the crash of Crested Mynas, and the recent crash of Spotted Doves also causes one to pause, as these examples suggest that the population dynamics of some species, depending on their ecological context, follow much longer patterns of expansion and collapse than we might expect.  Thus, what appears to be "established" might just be circling the drain.  





              On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Douglas Aguillard <dwaguillard@...> wrote:
               

              Ali,
               
              I also have wondered the same. The Lilac-crowned population in San Diego seems to be a 2-1 larger than the Red-crowned. The Magpie Jays in the Tijuana River valley have been around for over 10 years, and the population does grow and move around the south County, but will probably never make the list.
               
              But with all things, the CBRC and ABA only have the power, when your willing to let them have it. So you can make up your own State list if you wish to.
               
              Doug Aguillard
              San Diego, CA
              On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Ali Sheehey <natureali@...> wrote:
               

              Birders.

              I continue to wonder about the bias against accepting non-migratory established exotics. When a well documented vagrant with a single occurrence is countable but psittacid populations that continue to experience exponential growth are not considered because of limited geographic distribution owing to their non migratory habits, I scratch my head.

              As the documenter of Bakersfield's Rose-ringed Parakeet population, it becomes apparent that even though this population has satisfied every criteria for inclusion, it remains off the California list.

              Other populations within the state of this species may not be stable owing to competition from other more robust psittacid species but the Bakersfield population does not have the same pressure.

              I wouldn't be comfortable including rose-rings on my list beyond Bakersfield but I would add Nanday Parakeet from Malibu or Lilac-crowned Parrot from Temple City. The establishment of these birds is highly localized but stable by all accounts.

              IMHO, if one is going to have any exotics on the list, then all that meet the criteria as established should be considered without bias.

              Respectfully yours in nature,

              Ali

              Alison Sheehey
              PO Box 153
              Weldon, CA 93283

              natureali@...
              www.facebook.com/NaturesAli
              www.natureali.org
              www.flickr.com/photos/natureali




              --
              Doug Aguillard
              Photojournalist
              San Diego, CA
               




              --
              Steve Hampton
              Davis, CA


            • Rusty Scalf
              The population boom-bust nature of alien birds is intriguing, I think. To understand it might yield substantial insights into the field of avian ecology. A
              Message 6 of 25 , Sep 5, 2013
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                The population boom-bust nature of alien birds is intriguing, I think.  To understand it might yield substantial insights into the field of avian ecology. 

                A while back Douglass Pratt wrote a fascinating post to HawaiiBirding on the subject of Estreldid Finches and their pattern of radiation in the islands. He noted that some of these had relatively stable but small and geographically limited populations that lasted for a good many years; sometimes not leaving the confines of a town or some limited area. Then they'd suddenly surge and go on a march, eventually island hopping. African Silverbill (Lonchura cantans) was one. He thinks the birds stay limited until enough adaptive mutations are collected to equip them to radiate; that they suddenly radiate once they become a slightly different bird.

                   Rusty Scalf
                    Berkeley


              • natureali
                It is not just exotics that experience population booms and busts. Carolina Parakeet and Passenger Pigeon are great examples of the impact that eradication
                Message 7 of 25 , Sep 5, 2013
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                  It is not just exotics that experience population booms and busts. Carolina Parakeet and Passenger Pigeon are great examples of the impact that eradication efforts can have on natives. The drive to harvest burned trees is impacting Black-backed Woodpeckers without any so called eradication process. Hunting and the removal of mature White Fir has caused sharp declines in Sooty Grouse populations in the southern Sierra Nevada.


                  Yes, exotics may wax and wane, but the Rose-ringed Parakeets have been documented since the early 1980's when their population was in the dozens to hundreds. The population easily exceeds 3000 birds now and I suspect that is extremely conservative. Their distribution covers most of the 224 sq. mile metropolitan area of Bakersfield. The fifteen years as established was long ago satisfied.


                  I hope to have the documentation prepared so that the bird record committee can review it in a non-biased fashion. The inclusion of this species doesn't just meet the criteria but is also a cornerstone species for nature based tourism outreach efforts in the San Joaquin Valley. (Bakersfield has many native species that qualify to use in nature tourism, but parakeets add panache when dealing with the lay public).


                  Another consideration is, if a population suddenly increases or declines whether exotic or native, having a public cataloging method (thank goodness for ebird), allows for rapid review to see what factors may be causing that change. Does the success of the Eurasian Collared Dove have anything to do with the decline of the Spotted Dove or maybe when the feral cat programs starting exactly political pressure on urban ecosystems the Spotted Dove started its steep dive? Science is not limited to natural processes but also works on understanding the human impact on said processes.


                  I ebird every single exotic bird, not because I want it on my list but because I want a record of pioneer populations so we don't have to speculate if a fire at a pet store was the simple cause of the sudden appearance of a new species. I also ebird domestic ducks and peacocks as ebird is not just the purview of birders but many different constituencies are looking at the data and it helps to know if a relatively native pond is now overwhelmed with mutt ducks because someone dumped their pets in the middle of the night.


                  Respectfully,


                  Ali Sheehey

                  Weldon, CA



                  --- In CALBIRDS@yahoogroups.com, <calbirds@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                  The population boom-bust nature of alien birds is intriguing, I think.  To understand it might yield substantial insights into the field of avian ecology. 

                  A while back Douglass Pratt wrote a fascinating post to HawaiiBirding on the subject of Estreldid Finches and their pattern of radiation in the islands. He noted that some of these had relatively stable but small and geographically limited populations that lasted for a good many years; sometimes not leaving the confines of a town or some limited area. Then they'd suddenly surge and go on a march, eventually island hopping. African Silverbill (Lonchura cantans) was one. He thinks the birds stay limited until enough adaptive mutations are collected to equip them to radiate; that they suddenly radiate once they become a slightly different bird.

                     Rusty Scalf
                      Berkeley


                • Wanda
                  Right on Kurt! It is all in the record keeping and research! Things don t happen by themselves or verbal complaints................. Wanda Dameron West San
                  Message 8 of 25 , Sep 5, 2013
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                    Right on Kurt!    It is all in the record keeping and research!  

                    Things don't happen by themselves or verbal complaints.................

                    Wanda Dameron
                    West San Fernando Valley


                    On 9/5/2013 12:28 PM, Kurt Radamaker wrote:
                     
                    Hi Doug, Ali
                     
                    Before Rosy-faced Lovebird A.K.A Peach-faced Lovebird was officially accepted to the ABA list in 2012, as a member of the Arizona Bird Committee, I often had birders ask me why the Lovebird was not on the Arizona or ABA List. It was clear to AZ birders that Rosy-faced Lovebirds had been established for a long time and had a viable and expanding population in Phoenix. Birders around PHX would see them all the time, and they were hard to miss at popular birding locations like the Gilbert Water Ranch.
                     
                    The reason they were not on the AZ State or ABA list was simple. No one had done the research and work to consolidate Lovebird information and publish the results. So around 2008 I decided to research the Lovebird and publish my findings. The first step was to determine the population size and range, so I set up a Lovebird Census in 2009. 65 people participated and we found around 1000 lovebirds that day. Troy Corman and I researched the Lovebirds for the next year and published our results in the peer-reviewed Journal Arizona Birds Online http://www.azfo.org/journal/Rosy-facedLovebird2011.html
                     
                    After our research was published, we submitted our findings to the Arizona Bird Committee (ABC) for acceptance to the Arizona State List. On 28 December 2011, the Rosy-faced Lovebird was accepted to the Arizona State List http://abc.azfo.org/news/default.html
                     
                    Once Rosy-faced Lovebird was accepted by the ABC, I submitted a formal request to the ABA-CLC to review Rosy-faced Lovebird for acceptance to the ABA list. The submission and journal article were reviewed and Rosy-faced Lovebird was accepted.
                     
                    I don't believe bird records committee have any negative bias toward exotics. It is just much harder (requires research, writing, and commitment) to determine whether an exotic species is established over a vagrant occurring in the state. To determine if an exotic is established may take years, the ABA-CLC requires at least 15 years.
                     
                    So, if you believe Rose-ringed Parakeets or Black-throated Magpie Jays meet the ABA-CLC criteria http://aba.org/checklist/exotics.html I encourage you to do a census, research, publish and submit your findings to the California Bird Records Committee. I'm sure the CBRC would welcome it. I know the Arizona Bird Committee would.
                     
                    Best
                     
                    Kurt Radamaker
                    Cave Creek, AZ
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     
                     

                  • podoces
                    Message 9 of 25 , Sep 5, 2013
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                       <It my opinion, we birders (at least those among us who leave a record of what we encounter) have an  <obligation to count, document and publicize _every_ species in our area of interest. Every correctly identified  <species that is alive or dead, free-flying or caged.


                      So we should go to the zoo and count all those birds? What about pet stores? Do chickens at chicken farms count? Maybe WFO should organize field trips to the MVZ and Cal Academy and the San Diego, LA and San Bernardino County museums, so that we can all tick off the dead birds in the collections.


                      Counting anything but wild birds, be they native or established exotics, is a bit over the top, I think most will agree.


                      Matt Brady

                      Baton Rouge, LA



                      --- In calbirds@yahoogroups.com, <fabflockfinder@...> wrote:

                      Yes. It is a discussion which fascinates me. But at the risk of sounding xenophobic, I'll pipe up with a viewpoint that doesn't get a lot of air time. It my opinion, we birders (at least those among us who leave a record of what we encounter) have an obligation to count, document and publicize _every_ species in our area of interest. Every correctly identified species that is alive or dead, free-flying or caged. Radical? yes! After all, the total number of species of birds in the universe is finite. Obligation is a strong sentiment but I believe it is justified by the need to monitor ecosystems for invaders. I understand that Florida has a potential problem on its hands with the introduction and establishment of the Burmese python. Only time with tell, how this will play out. Perhaps there has been or will be some addition to our avifauna that stands to irrevocably alter our ecosystems here. I argue that it is important to pay attention. Of course we have learned that it is more critical to pay attention on islands. But I feel we ought to be in the habit of doing the same on the continents as well. Because ecosystems are a lot like islands.

                      This tenant of conservation biology has been known in limited circles for decades but there is no reason why it ought not become a mainstream household concept. And it goes hand-in-hand with circumscribing behaviors in the pet trade, zoological gardens and tourist traps. Just look what happened when we didn't pay attention to the brown tree snake on Guam. How many species have become extinct through this disastrous introduction? As somebody said: the biggest problem in the world could have been solved when it was small. I just wish that the state record committees and the ABA incentivized counting the one off escapes/releases. Now that we have eBird.org we have the mechanism to publicize. 

                      Flock on!

                      Elias/Ηλίας
                      Arcata CA/San Diego CA
                      Walkie talkie primero=707-633-8833
                      Last ditch alternate=559-433-7254


                      On Sep 5, 2013, at 12:11, Steve Hampton <stevechampton@...> wrote:



                      Good discussion about when to accept non-natives as established.  

                      The removal of Ringed Turtle Dove from the ABA list, the crash of Crested Mynas, and the recent crash of Spotted Doves also causes one to pause, as these examples suggest that the population dynamics of some species, depending on their ecological context, follow much longer patterns of expansion and collapse than we might expect.  Thus, what appears to be "established" might just be circling the drain.  





                      On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Douglas Aguillard <dwaguillard@...> wrote:
                       
                      Ali,
                       
                      I also have wondered the same. The Lilac-crowned population in San Diego seems to be a 2-1 larger than the Red-crowned. The Magpie Jays in the Tijuana River valley have been around for over 10 years, and the population does grow and move around the south County, but will probably never make the list.
                       
                      But with all things, the CBRC and ABA only have the power, when your willing to let them have it. So you can make up your own State list if you wish to.
                       
                      Doug Aguillard
                      San Diego, CA
                      On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Ali Sheehey <natureali@...> wrote:
                       

                      Birders.

                      I continue to wonder about the bias against accepting non-migratory established exotics. When a well documented vagrant with a single occurrence is countable but psittacid populations that continue to experience exponential growth are not considered because of limited geographic distribution owing to their non migratory habits, I scratch my head.

                      As the documenter of Bakersfield's Rose-ringed Parakeet population, it becomes apparent that even though this population has satisfied every criteria for inclusion, it remains off the California list.

                      Other populations within the state of this species may not be stable owing to competition from other more robust psittacid species but the Bakersfield population does not have the same pressure.

                      I wouldn't be comfortable including rose-rings on my list beyond Bakersfield but I would add Nanday Parakeet from Malibu or Lilac-crowned Parrot from Temple City. The establishment of these birds is highly localized but stable by all accounts.

                      IMHO, if one is going to have any exotics on the list, then all that meet the criteria as established should be considered without bias.

                      Respectfully yours in nature,

                      Ali

                      Alison Sheehey
                      PO Box 153
                      Weldon, CA 93283

                      natureali@...
                      www.facebook.com/NaturesAli
                      www.natureali.org
                      www.flickr.com/photos/natureali




                      --
                      Doug Aguillard
                      Photojournalist
                      San Diego, CA
                       



                      --
                      Steve Hampton
                      Davis, CA


                    • tgmiko@gmail.com
                      Interesting. I have always assumed that some biology grad students would be thrilled to make these exotics as the subject of a Masters or PhD thesis. It could
                      Message 10 of 25 , Sep 7, 2013
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                        Interesting. I have always assumed that some biology grad students would be thrilled to make these exotics as the subject of a Masters or PhD thesis. It could be done within spitting distance of a dozen or so universities.
                        This somewhat assumes that said grad student is also a hard-core birder (who, of course, will not fudge their data for selfish purposes a la the 1919 White Sox). Not necessarily: during my banding days I met biology grad students in various parts of the state to whom birds are research subjects interchangeable with lizards or fish.

                        Thomas G. Miko
                        Http://www.tgmiko.com
                        Claremont 91711, LA County
                        Mobile: 909.241.3300
                        Home: 909.445.1456
                        Other Mobile: 213.471.6001

                        "The universe is expanding. This should help with the traffic."- Stephen Wright
                        Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless


                        -----Original message-----
                        From: Ed Stonick <edstonick@...>
                        To:
                        Kurt Radamaker <kurtrad@...>, "calbirds@yahoogroups.com" <calbirds@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent:
                        Thu, Sep 5, 2013 19:59:36 GMT+00:00
                        Subject:
                        Re: [CALBIRDS] Re: News from the California Bird Records Committee

                         

                        HI Kurt!

                        That's a good and important idea--to have the science behind the establishment of a new species for the list.

                        Just wondering if anyone's studied the Orange Bishop.  Seems that species has been around about as long as the Mannikin albeit in smaller numbers.

                        Regards,
                        Ed

                        Ed Stonick
                        Pasadena, CA

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Kurt Radamaker
                        Sent: Sep 5, 2013 12:28 PM
                        To: "calbirds@yahoogroups.com"
                        Subject: Re: [CALBIRDS] Re: News from the California Bird Records Committee

                         

                        Hi Doug, Ali
                         
                        Before Rosy-faced Lovebird A.K.A Peach-faced Lovebird was officially accepted to the ABA list in 2012, as a member of the Arizona Bird Committee, I often had birders ask me why the Lovebird was not on the Arizona or ABA List. It was clear to AZ birders that Rosy-faced Lovebirds had been established for a long time and had a viable and expanding population in Phoenix. Birders around PHX would see them all the time, and they were hard to miss at popular birding locations like the Gilbert Water Ranch.
                         
                        The reason they were not on the AZ State or ABA list was simple. No one had done the research and work to consolidate Lovebird information and publish the results. So around 2008 I decided to research the Lovebird and publish my findings. The first step was to determine the population size and range, so I set up a Lovebird Census in 2009. 65 people participated and we found around 1000 lovebirds that day. Troy Corman and I researched the Lovebirds for the next year and published our results in the peer-reviewed Journal Arizona Birds Online http://www.azfo.org/journal/Rosy-facedLovebird2011.html
                         
                        After our research was published, we submitted our findings to the Arizona Bird Committee (ABC) for acceptance to the Arizona State List. On 28 December 2011, the Rosy-faced Lovebird was accepted to the Arizona State List http://abc.azfo.org/news/default.html
                         
                        Once Rosy-faced Lovebird was accepted by the ABC, I submitted a formal request to the ABA-CLC to review Rosy-faced Lovebird for acceptance to the ABA list. The submission and journal article were reviewed and Rosy-faced Lovebird was accepted.
                         
                        I don't believe bird records committee have any negative bias toward exotics. It is just much harder (requires research, writing, and commitment) to determine whether an exotic species is established over a vagrant occurring in the state. To determine if an exotic is established may take years, the ABA-CLC requires at least 15 years.
                         
                        So, if you believe Rose-ringed Parakeets or Black-throated Magpie Jays meet the ABA-CLC criteria http://aba.org/checklist/exotics.html I encourage you to do a census, research, publish and submit your findings to the California Bird Records Committee. I'm sure the CBRC would welcome it. I know the Arizona Bird Committee would.
                         
                        Best
                         
                        Kurt Radamaker
                        Cave Creek, AZ
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         
                         

                        
                        Regards,
                        Ed
                        
                        Ed Stonick
                        Pasadena, CA
                        edstonick@...
                      • Kimball Garrett
                        Birders, The Western Field Ornithologists California Bird Records Committee held its annual meeting on 17-18 January 2014 in Los Gatos. Below is a brief
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jan 21, 2014
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                          Birders,

                          The Western Field Ornithologists' California Bird Records Committee held its annual meeting on 17-18 January 2014 in Los Gatos. Below is a brief summary of actions, compiled by Committee Chair Joseph Morlan, relating to committee membership, the state list, and the review list.

                          The CBRC web site http://www.californiabirds.org has been updated by webmaster Joseph Morlan to reflect these actions.

                          Brian Daniels, John Garrett and Jim Tietz were elected to three-year terms on the Committee. We welcome back Jim who has served previously and has continued to help with the on-line CBRC database. Brian and John will be serving their first terms on the Committee. Rotating off the committee are Kristie Nelson, Jim Pike and Scott Terrill. Joseph Morlan will continue as Chair, Dan Singer as vice-chair and Guy McCaskie as CBRC Secretary.

                          Among various by-law revisions was approval of a provision to change the northern offshore boundary with Oregon to the area where the nearest point of land is within 200 nautical miles of the California coast. The area south of 42°N latitude had been used in the past. This change will eliminate a small wedge of offshore waters that were previously considered part of our California waters, but apparently only a single accepted record (of a "Dark-rumped" Petrel) has occurred in that area.

                          The committee voted to create a new category (RI) for the California Condor to indicate reintroduction in progress. This species was formerly listed as extirpated (E). Also Nazca Booby was removed from the Supplemental List of species which are of uncertain natural occurrence (the rationale being that the Supplemental List is for species whose provenance is uncertain, whereas we know exactly
                          what happened with the ship-assisted Nazca Booby).

                          One species group ("frigatebird sp.") was added to the review list based on a vote at the 2013 meeting, while three species and one species pair were removed.

                          Removed were:
                          Hawaiian Petrel and Galapagos/Hawaiian Petrel (now regular offshore)
                          Neotropic Cormorant (increasing rapidly in the Imperial Valley, breeding).
                          Pine Warbler (regular winter visitor in coastal Southern California).

                          Records of these species beginning 1 January 2014 will not be reviewed by the Committee. However, we continue to urge those who observe these species (and all other rarities) in California to thoroughly document sightings and provide details to the appropriate North American Birds regional or sub-regional editors as well as through eBird.

                          Among many additional topics discussed was the desire for photo submissions to be in the form of separate JPEG's with the original metadata (exif) generated by digital cameras rather than (or in addition to) embedded in word processing documents. We continue to urge observers to provide written context with all photo submissions, including circumstances of the sighting, description of behaviors and vocalizations, and anything else not evident in photographs. A revised submission form was approved and is available on our web site.

                          Lastly the committee is seeking a volunteer who is familiar with programming in MS Access to help us with our database. We need help creating queries and macros, and updating tables. Please contact Joe
                          Morlan (jmorlan@...) if you think you can help.

                          We are grateful to H. T. Harvey and Associates for hosting the meeting and generously supplying the sandwiches and pizza that got us through many long discussions; many thanks to CBRC members Steve Rottenborn and Scott Terrill for arranging this. The CBRC thanks its outgoing members for their service, and all of the observers who have submitted documentation of records to the CBRC over the past year.

                          This news posted by the CBRC "press secretary":
                          Kimball L. Garrett
                          Ornithology Collections Manager
                          Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
                          900 Exposition Blvd.
                          Los Angeles, CA 90007 USA
                          kgarrett@...
                          http://www.nhm.org/site/research-collections/ornithology
                        • Kimball Garrett
                          The California Bird Records Committee held its annual meeting at the Western Foundation of Vertebrate Zoology in Camarillo on 23-24 January. The following
                          Message 12 of 25 , Feb 9
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                            The California Bird Records Committee held its annual meeting at the Western Foundation of Vertebrate Zoology in Camarillo on 23-24 January. The following items resulting from that meeting will be of interest to California birders:

                             

                            Changes to the STATE LIST:

                             

                            Arctic Warbler (Phylloscopus borealis) is removed and replaced with Arctic/Kamchatka Leaf Warbler (Phylloscopus borealis/examinandus); at present it is uncertain which of these taxa has occurred in California. The species pair Arctic/Kamchatka Leaf Warbler is also added to the review list.

                             

                            Tundra Bean-Goose (Anser serrirostris) is added to the state list (and review list) following the acceptance of the bird at the Salton Sea, Imperial Co. 19 Oct 2013 (CBRC record #2013-181); the species pair Taiga/Tundra Bean-Goose (Anser fabalis/serrirostris) is removed from the state list.

                             

                            Changes to the REVIEW LIST:

                             

                            Taiga/Tundra Bean-Goose is moved from the main Review List to the supplemental list of reviewed “species groups and hybrid taxa” at the end of the Review List

                             

                            Frigatebird sp. is removed from the “species groups and hybrid taxa” supplemental review list and replaced with Magnificent/Great/Lesser Frigatebird (Fregata magnificens/minor/ariel)

                             

                            Blue-footed Booby and Yellow-green Vireo are removed from the Review List

                             

                            COMMITTEE MEMBERSHIP:

                             

                            Voting members Jon Dunn, Peter Pyle and Steve Rottenborn rotated off the Committee

                             

                            Lauren Harter, Kristie Nelson, and Scott Terrill were elected to the Committee as voting members

                             

                            Joe Morlan was re-elected as CBRC Chair

                             

                            Dan Singer was re-elected as CBRC Vice-Chair

                             

                            Finally, and most importantly, Guy McCaskie retired as Secretary after serving in that role since 2001. 

                            Tom Benson was elected to replace Guy as Secretary; all documentation of CBRC review species should now go to Tom Benson at secretary@...

                             

                            These changes to the State List, Review List, and Committee membership have been made on the CBRC web site by webmaster Joe Morlan; see:

                            http://californiabirds.org/

                             

                            In particular, note the tribute to outgoing secretary Guy McCaskie at:

                            http://californiabirds.org/GuyMcCaskie015.html

                             

                            Kimball L. Garrett

                            [acting as CBRC spokesperson]

                            Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County

                            900 Exposition Blvd.

                            Los Angeles, CA 90007 USA

                            (213) 763-3368

                            kgarrett@...

                             

                             

                             

                          • Tristan McKee
                            Thanks to the CBRC for all their good work. I was a little disturbed to see Yellow-green Vireo removed from the review list, considering the findings of this
                            Message 13 of 25 , Feb 9
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                              Thanks to the CBRC for all their good work.

                              I was a little disturbed to see Yellow-green Vireo removed from the review list, considering the findings of this major multilocus vireo phylogeny:


                              Basically, East Mexican Yellow-greens are poorly differentiated from North American Red-eyeds, while west slope/southern birds are a different beast entirely. Based on current knowledge, if the AOU acts on this, we will not know if we are seeing things that are basically Red-eyed Vireos with yellow-green plumage or the genetically distinct Yellow-greens from the west slope and south. 

                              Thanks to Alvaro Jaramillo for bringing this paper to my attention a few months back.

                              Tristan McKee
                              Arcata, CA

                              On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 2:54 PM, Kimball Garrett kgarrett@... [CALBIRDS] <CALBIRDS-noreply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                               

                              The California Bird Records Committee held its annual meeting at the Western Foundation of Vertebrate Zoology in Camarillo on 23-24 January. The following items resulting from that meeting will be of interest to California birders:

                               

                              Changes to the STATE LIST:

                               

                              Arctic Warbler (Phylloscopus borealis) is removed and replaced with Arctic/Kamchatka Leaf Warbler (Phylloscopus borealis/examinandus); at present it is uncertain which of these taxa has occurred in California. The species pair Arctic/Kamchatka Leaf Warbler is also added to the review list.

                               

                              Tundra Bean-Goose (Anser serrirostris) is added to the state list (and review list) following the acceptance of the bird at the Salton Sea, Imperial Co. 19 Oct 2013 (CBRC record #2013-181); the species pair Taiga/Tundra Bean-Goose (Anser fabalis/serrirostris) is removed from the state list.

                               

                              Changes to the REVIEW LIST:

                               

                              Taiga/Tundra Bean-Goose is moved from the main Review List to the supplemental list of reviewed “species groups and hybrid taxa” at the end of the Review List

                               

                              Frigatebird sp. is removed from the “species groups and hybrid taxa” supplemental review list and replaced with Magnificent/Great/Lesser Frigatebird (Fregata magnificens/minor/ariel)

                               

                              Blue-footed Booby and Yellow-green Vireo are removed from the Review List

                               

                              COMMITTEE MEMBERSHIP:

                               

                              Voting members Jon Dunn, Peter Pyle and Steve Rottenborn rotated off the Committee

                               

                              Lauren Harter, Kristie Nelson, and Scott Terrill were elected to the Committee as voting members

                               

                              Joe Morlan was re-elected as CBRC Chair

                               

                              Dan Singer was re-elected as CBRC Vice-Chair

                               

                              Finally, and most importantly, Guy McCaskie retired as Secretary after serving in that role since 2001. 

                              Tom Benson was elected to replace Guy as Secretary; all documentation of CBRC review species should now go to Tom Benson at secretary@...

                               

                              These changes to the State List, Review List, and Committee membership have been made on the CBRC web site by webmaster Joe Morlan; see:

                              http://californiabirds.org/

                               

                              In particular, note the tribute to outgoing secretary Guy McCaskie at:

                              http://californiabirds.org/GuyMcCaskie015.html

                               

                              Kimball L. Garrett

                              [acting as CBRC spokesperson]

                              Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County

                              900 Exposition Blvd.

                              Los Angeles, CA 90007 USA

                              (213) 763-3368

                              kgarrett@...

                               

                               

                               


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