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11007Re: [CALBIRDS] Re: News from the California Bird Records Committee

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  • John Sterling
    Sep 5, 2013
      When I first started birding in 1971, Blue-gray Tanager was in the field guide because of its population in Florida which has since disappeared.  Didn't the Black Francolin population die out shortly after the species was accepted on the ABA list for North America? 
      These two additional examples, along with those mentioned by Steve Hampton below,  illustrate the difficulty in determining whether introduced species should be viewed as fully established. 

      Maybe we should relax the criteria and accept many more exotic species on the list as I see no compelling reason not to in light of historical crashes of some "established" species.  Why not add the many parrots in CA to the state list along with Magpie Jay, Pin-tailed Whydah, Red Bishops and others?  Why go to the extra time and effort to demonstrate whether populations are "established" based upon criteria that are somewhat arbitrary.  Just accept them to the state list and let the army of eBirders and other birders document their population status?  If an exotic species is "extirpated", so what?  Just remove it from the list.

      If you are worried about fluctuations on your state, life, county etc lists, then just count native species on your list and keep a separate list for non-native species. Seems like a simple way to deal with this issue.


      John Sterling

      26 Palm Ave
      Woodland, CA 95695
      530 908-3836

      On Sep 5, 2013, at 12:10 PM, Steve Hampton <stevechampton@...> wrote:


      Good discussion about when to accept non-natives as established.  

      The removal of Ringed Turtle Dove from the ABA list, the crash of Crested Mynas, and the recent crash of Spotted Doves also causes one to pause, as these examples suggest that the population dynamics of some species, depending on their ecological context, follow much longer patterns of expansion and collapse than we might expect.  Thus, what appears to be "established" might just be circling the drain.  

      On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Douglas Aguillard <dwaguillard@...> wrote:

      I also have wondered the same. The Lilac-crowned population in San Diego seems to be a 2-1 larger than the Red-crowned. The Magpie Jays in the Tijuana River valley have been around for over 10 years, and the population does grow and move around the south County, but will probably never make the list.
      But with all things, the CBRC and ABA only have the power, when your willing to let them have it. So you can make up your own State list if you wish to.
      Doug Aguillard
      San Diego, CA
      On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Ali Sheehey <natureali@...> wrote:


      I continue to wonder about the bias against accepting non-migratory established exotics. When a well documented vagrant with a single occurrence is countable but psittacid populations that continue to experience exponential growth are not considered because of limited geographic distribution owing to their non migratory habits, I scratch my head.

      As the documenter of Bakersfield's Rose-ringed Parakeet population, it becomes apparent that even though this population has satisfied every criteria for inclusion, it remains off the California list.

      Other populations within the state of this species may not be stable owing to competition from other more robust psittacid species but the Bakersfield population does not have the same pressure.

      I wouldn't be comfortable including rose-rings on my list beyond Bakersfield but I would add Nanday Parakeet from Malibu or Lilac-crowned Parrot from Temple City. The establishment of these birds is highly localized but stable by all accounts.

      IMHO, if one is going to have any exotics on the list, then all that meet the criteria as established should be considered without bias.

      Respectfully yours in nature,


      Alison Sheehey
      PO Box 153
      Weldon, CA 93283


      Doug Aguillard
      San Diego, CA

      Steve Hampton
      Davis, CA

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