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Lady Caroline Lamb

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  • nancy mayer
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    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 13, 2006
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      > http://www2.sjsu.edu/faculty/douglass/caro/works_commonplace_books.html




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    • nancy mayer
      ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 13, 2006
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        >
        >
        > Their famous literary portraits of one another --Glenarvon and Lady
        > Adeline Amundeville --have been much discussed.
        >



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      • nancy mayer
        It is time to be serious. One can not even make fun of vice any more. Then we move quickly on to Lady Adeline Amundeville an heiress and beautiful among many
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 13, 2006
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          It is time to be serious.
          One can not even make fun of vice any more.

          Then we move quickly on to Lady Adeline Amundeville an heiress and
          beautiful among many beauties.
          he narrator says that no man should perceive a plain woman until he
          was at least 30.
          When the blood cools and passion turns towards indifference some know
          it is time to give up the chase and leave room for younger people. When
          the men are no longer so ho to chase women they can turn their minds and
          energy towards Religion, reform taxes and the nation.
          But then men do not want to go about doing good. Cervantes had
          destroyed chivalry and now those who wanted to fight for reform were
          described as tilting a lance at windmills.
          CErvantes led people to laugh at the concepts of redressing injury,
          revenging a wrong, aid a damsel, destroy a villain, and free countries
          from tyrants.

          But the narrator says he is back to his old faults of digression.
          Lady Adeline Amundeville was the fair most fatal to Juan.
          The lady was married and chaste as well as being beautiful.


          But then she had not yet met Juan.
          Nancy


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        • nancy mayer
          I wrote a note to Paul Douglass telling him I enjoyed the web page and thanking him for making it known to us. Some of you may be interested in his response.
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 14, 2006
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            I wrote a note to Paul Douglass telling him I enjoyed the web page and
            thanking him for making it known to us.
            Some of you may be interested in his response.

            > Dear Nancy: Thank you for your kind remarks. I hope to make steady
            > improvements to the site, and publishing notes and essays is part of
            > the plan. If you know of anyone working on anything related to Caro or
            > the circle she was known in (including Byron, Nathan, de Stael, Opie,
            > etc.), tell them I'm interested in submissions--and they don't have to
            > present Caro in a positive light. I'm trying to humanize, not idealize
            > her. Very best wishes, Paul
            > -- Paul Douglass Department of English and Comparative Literature San
            > Jose State University San Jose, CA 95192-0090 Phone: 408-924-4429 FAX:
            > 408-924-4580 email: pdouglas@...
            > http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/douglass/caro/paul_douglass




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          • nancy mayer
            Much of the information on Lady caroline Lamb-- up until now-- has come from two sources. One is the memoirs of Lady Morgan, Sydney Owen who married a Sir
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 14, 2006
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              Much of the information on Lady caroline Lamb-- up until now-- has come
              from two sources. One is the memoirs of Lady Morgan, Sydney Owen who
              married a Sir ?? (Someone) Morgan.
              The other source of material about Lady Caroline has been the
              biographers of William Lamb who later became Lord Melbourne. Many of the
              biographers were not at all sympathetic to Lady Caroline.
              Blythe, who wrote about Caro and Byron in Fatal Passion, depended
              greatly on Lady Morgan's account. Unfortunately his errors have been
              perpetrated by researchers who liberally used his work.
              The Caro website has used other sources. One big difference is in the
              reports of Lady Caroline's early education. Lady Morgan said that Lady
              caroline told her that she was not taught to read until she was 11
              because the doctors had said her nerves were too delicate. The web
              page says that, far from being illiterate until 11, Caroline was an
              advanced student.
              The other controversial claim is that Caroline was sent to Italy with
              only a maid in attendance. Her mother did go to Italy for her health,
              according to different sources, but Caroline stayed behind with her
              grandmother and her Cavendish ( Devonshire) cousins. I guess we will
              have to read Douglass's book to get the new story.
              Generally, I discount most of what is claimed by Caro or Lady Morgan
              unless it can be substantiated by other sources. The correspondence
              of her cousin, Lady Harriet Cavendish, who married Lord Granville
              Leveson Gower, has been published. caro is mentioned often.
              I have not spent much time on Lady Caroline but might be tempted by
              the new biography.
              Nancy

              http://www2.sjsu.edu/faculty/douglass/caro/works_commonplace_books.html




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            • nancy mayer
              Don Juan is in Regency London-- it was a place which Byron knew well. One commentator said he thought Byron used the Don Juan in London part to take revenge
              Message 6 of 20 , Mar 20, 2006
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                Don Juan is in Regency London-- it was a place which Byron knew well.
                One commentator said he thought Byron used the Don Juan in London part
                to take revenge on the society which had turned its back on him. I do
                not see it but then I could just be obtuse.
                I do not mean that I do not think he wields his satiric knife on the
                people of the Ton, for he does; I do not think he is still holding a
                grudge. Some times the lines read more as though he looks at the
                place with affection , even if some is affectionate contempt. He is
                the observer observing creatures at the zoo.



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              • nancy mayer
                ... THis is a site of songs of the Romantic period . These are not the classics but Nathan and Byron, Nathan and Lady Caroline Lamb. There is also a link to
                Message 7 of 20 , Jun 11, 2006
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                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > http://www2.sjsu.edu/faculty/douglass/music/
                  >
                  THis is a site of songs of the Romantic period . These are not the
                  classics but Nathan and Byron, Nathan and Lady Caroline Lamb.
                  There is also a link to the Lady Caroline webpage of Paul Douglas.

                  http://www2.sjsu.edu/faculty/douglass/caro/works_commonplace_books.html



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                • nancy mayer
                  ... So far I do not see any connection seeing as Lady Adeline is said to be chaste and faithful to her husband. I will have to read the rest. By most
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jun 11, 2006
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                    > This statement may be taken as a metaphor for Lamb and Byron's
                    > literary relationship: literally, their written and textual affair
                    > with each other's "pages." Their famous literary portraits of one
                    > another --Glenarvon and Lady Adeline Amundeville --have been much
                    > discussed


                    So far I do not see any connection seeing as Lady Adeline is said to
                    be chaste and faithful to her husband. I will have to read the rest.
                    By most accounts, Byron was not Lady Caroline's first lover, just her
                    most notorious affaire.
                    Nancy



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                  • R. Nesvet
                    ._,___ Okay, maybe Nathan s music wasn t (and isn t) classic , but please recall that Percy Shelley and John Clare saw less fame and reward in their lifetimes
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jun 11, 2006
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                      ._,___


                      Okay, maybe Nathan's music wasn't (and isn't) "classic", but please recall that Percy Shelley and John Clare saw less fame and reward in their lifetimes than Nathan in his, and they're now "classics". Right?

                      Some of Nathan's compositions are disappointingly music-box formulaic, but his adaptation of an Aborigine song (allegedly) is fascinating and his setting for the Lord's Prayer is downright haunting. (I have a recording, kindly lent by an Australian musicologist. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to pass on his contact info.)

                      Of Nathan & Byron's "Hebrew Melodies", I like "The Harp the Monarch Minstrel Swept" but agree with contemporary critics that the high-flying flourishes of "She Walks in Beauty" fight with the words and wreck the metre.

                      Best wishes,

                      Rebecca



                      ------------------------------
                      "War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight, the lawyer's jest, and the hired assassin's trade."

                      - Percy Bysshe Shelley

                      "So that they may overthrow the government they parade “liberty.” If they succeed, they will attack liberty itself."

                      - Justus Lipsius
                      Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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                    • emmh@ntlworld.com
                      Teresa Guiccioli in her Vie de Lord Byron en Italie says that Lady Adeline is based on Lady Blessington. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jun 11, 2006
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                        Teresa Guiccioli in her Vie de Lord Byron en Italie says that Lady
                        Adeline is based on Lady Blessington.
                        On 11 Jun 2006, at 20:57, nancy mayer wrote:

                        > > This statement may be taken as a metaphor for Lamb and Byron's
                        > > literary relationship: literally, their written and textual affair
                        > > with each other's "pages." Their famous literary portraits of one
                        > > another --Glenarvon and Lady Adeline Amundeville --have been much
                        > > discussed
                        >
                        > So far I do not see any connection seeing as Lady Adeline is said to
                        > be chaste and faithful to her husband. I will have to read the rest.
                        > By most accounts, Byron was not Lady Caroline's first lover, just her
                        > most notorious affaire.
                        > Nancy
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >

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                      • nancy mayer
                        Sorry. In my short hand classic means Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert. I have seen CDs of Regency music which includes all of these. Nancy [Non-text portions
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jun 11, 2006
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                          Sorry. In my short hand "classic" means Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert. I
                          have seen CDs of Regency music which includes all of these.
                          Nancy



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                        • nancy mayer
                          ... Now that makes much more sense , though Lady Blessington s reputation was not a pristine one. I would have chosen the lady at whose house Byron stayed
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jun 11, 2006
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                            >
                            >
                            >Teresa Guiccioli in her Vie de Lord Byron en Italie says that Lady
                            >Adeline is based on Lady Blessington.
                            >
                            Now that makes much more sense , though Lady Blessington's reputation
                            was not a pristine one.
                            I would have chosen the lady at whose house Byron stayed but who he
                            resisted having an affair with because he was a friend of the husband
                            and the lady had a spotless reputation. later it is said she had an
                            affair with Wellington.. Byron made a wry remark about her when he heard
                            this.
                            I am more interested in Lady Blessington. Her father was an Irish
                            Squireen who changed his religion from Roman Catholic to Protestant to
                            obtain a position with the English. He was a heavy handed man and the
                            Irish burnt his fields and killed his farm animals at least once. The
                            father married Margaret off to an army captain when she was 15. The
                            husband was abusive, and her father would not help. Margaret refused
                            to go off to a posting to India or someplace when her husband left.
                            Margaret was supposed to be very beautiful.
                            There are two different stories about what happened after Margaret was
                            left behind. According to one story she went home to her father but
                            then ran away when he beat her. According to another, she stayed with
                            friends until it became too costly. A third is that she started off
                            being a man's mistress. In any event , Margaret was taken up by a man
                            named Jenkins. He established her in a house , provided tutors for her.
                            These tutors educated her as though she were the daughter of a Mr.
                            Darcy in England-- or to be a high class courtesan.
                            She stayed with Jenkins for several years. He did not believe in
                            beating women.
                            Jenkins was interested in the theatre. Among the other members of the
                            group was a Lord Mounteagle whose wife had just died. The widower had
                            two legal children and one born out of wedlock. Lord Mounteagle saw
                            Margaret and wanted her. He paid Jenkins £10,000-- supposedly to
                            reimburse him for his expenses educating Margaret. Margaret and
                            Mounteagle mixed in theatrical circles and those who liked to put on
                            private theatricals where the fact that she was his mistress was not
                            held against her. I have forgotten the exact sequence of the
                            following events.
                            Mounteagle was created the Earl of Blessington . I think he "lent "
                            the Regent some money.
                            The husband returned and demanded £200 to allow Margaret to continue
                            to live with her protector. Then fate took a hand and the husband
                            walked out of a window some distance from the ground.
                            To the horror of the ton, Blessington then married Margaret. Of
                            course, there were many who refused to receive her. This did not seem
                            to bother Blessington too much as he still had his circle of friends. A
                            new member of the circle was a young man named Alfred D'Orsay.
                            Blessington was quite taken by this young man. Despite what some said,
                            it seems to me that Blessington was the one who included D'Orsay .
                            Frankly, I doubt that Margaret had much influence with her husband.
                            Blessington decided to go abroad. D'Orsay was to be their guide. While
                            they were on the journey, Blessington heard that his son was ill. The
                            child was dead before Blessington reached Ireland.
                            When he returned to his party, he had decided that D'Orsay would be his
                            substitute son. he offered D'Orsay the choice of his daughters-- the
                            legitimate one or the illegitimate. D'Orsay chose Harriet the legitimate
                            one. The girl was sent for . The first English counsels they spoke to,
                            refused to allow a marriage between D'Orsay and Harriet. They moved on
                            until they found one who was willing to do it and Harriet and D'orsay
                            were married.. She did not want to marry him. One would have thought
                            that Margaret would have stood up for the child after having been
                            married off her self. However, I imagine Lady Blessington thought that
                            Harriet ought to be thankful that her father had chosen a fine
                            gentleman for her. Either that or she knew she had no influence with
                            her husband.
                            Lord Blessington cut the jointure ( money to be paid to his widow),
                            and increased the money to be paid to D'Orsay.
                            Many biographies of Lady Blessington say that she and D'Orsay conspired
                            to have him marry the daughter. This presupposes that Lord Blessington
                            was totally under their control. However, he had the idea of having
                            D'Orsay marry one of his daughters when he was away in Ireland. Neither
                            Lady Blessington nor D'Orsay went with him.
                            The D'Orsay marriage was a disaster. There are questions about whether
                            he consummated it. As soon as her father was dead, Lady Harriet left
                            him. I will have to look up her history.
                            It was on this continental journey that Lady Blessington met Lord Byron.
                            Anyway, Lady Blessington and D'Orsay returned to London. I do not
                            think they shared a house though he was always at her place.
                            Though D'Orsay had received a large sum of money from Blessington that
                            soon disappeared. The potato famine in Ireland cut Lady Blessington's
                            income as her jointure was based on income from an Irish estate. .She
                            published her Conversations with Lord Byron and had literary salons. She
                            wrote poems and pieces for annual publications with names like Wreathes
                            of Beauty. She was editor for sometime.
                            Margaret was not extravagant., but she considered herself responsible
                            for D'orsay's debts. He was the last of the Dandies. A man who wrote
                            etiquette books used D'Orsay's name as author for the cachet of it.
                            FInally, the famine cut Margaret's and D'orsay's income to practically
                            nothing. She sold all her possessions at auction t pay hers and
                            D'Orasay's debts and they went to live on the continent.. She died
                            soon after she arrived in Paris. D'Orsay lived for awhile longer.

                            It is hard to tell emotions from a distance of nearly two hundred
                            years, but I get the impression that Lord Blessington married
                            Margaret to have a beautiful wife. My interpretation of the menage a
                            troise is that he was more interested in D'Orsay than in his wife or
                            than his wife was interested in D'Orsay. I also think that Margaret
                            was brutalized by her first husband to the extent that she never
                            enjoyed sex and would not act the siren, I certainly do not see her as
                            being a dominant part of that marriage to the extent that she could
                            influence her husband to marry his daughter to D'Orsay. D'orsay was a
                            Dandy and dandies often did not marry. They generally were more
                            interested in themselves than in any one else. D'Orsay became the
                            darling of society for a time.
                            Nancy


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                          • Nancy Mayer
                            http://www.links2love.com/love_letters_24.htm Some report that they can t access the site because of explicit sexual content. . The letter from Lady Caroline
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 10, 2009
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                              http://www.links2love.com/love_letters_24.htm
                              Some report that they can't access the site because of "explicit sexual content." . The letter from Lady Caroline Lamb to Medwin is not sexually explicit.


                              Nancy Mayer
                              http://www.susannaives.com/nancyregencyresearcher/

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