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  • nancy mayer
    Juan and his companion are led through a hall. Narrator tells mentions Babel and its old kings, Daniel and the Queen Semiramis. there are many Biblical and
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 9, 2005
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      Juan and his companion are led through a hall. Narrator tells mentions
      Babel and its old kings, Daniel and the Queen Semiramis. there are many
      Biblical and historical reference within 8 lines. The references are
      made with such ease and without any tinge of strain that one must
      conclude that Byron had these facts in his well stocked brain.
      A note says Babylon was enlarged by Nimrod, strengthened and xxxx by
      Nebuchadonosor and rebuilt by Semiramis.
      Nebuchadonosor was another name of Nebuchadnezzar. He went mad and
      started grazing on grass.
      William Blake drew some stark pictures of Ol' Nebby.
      Again, Byron's intimate knowledge is amazing.
      LXI
      That Injured Queen -- Byron makes it seem he is speaking of Queen
      Semiramas. -- when he means the Queen of England.
      In 1820 King Geo.III died ( Jan.) and his son, up until then Prince of
      Wales and Prince Regent, became King Geo.IV. Georgie Porgie had been
      married many years before to his father's niece. He hated her. It was
      quite a bit like the marital discord between Diana and Charles of our
      own day. They had had one daughter who died in childbirth. The
      Princess of Wales had taken off for the continent in 1814 and Byron had
      met her . To put it mildly, she was very indiscreet.
      The Prince Regent was happy to pay her to stay as far away from England
      as possible.
      When his father died, he told the archbishop of Canterbury that he did
      not want his wife mentioned in the Book of Common prayer in the prayers
      for the Royal family. He also sent an envoy to his wife offering her
      £50,000 ( a very large sum at that time) if she would stay away . When
      she refused and came to England , he asked the House of Lords to give
      him a divorce from her. It was a private bill. It was a hot August and
      the testimony was a mixture of Jerry Springer and Hustler magazine . All
      the comments about the session are those of disgust.
      The only thing that kept the peers from immediately allowing the King to
      be divorced from his blowzy and indiscreet wife ( though some said she
      was just injured) was his own behaviour. She might have been behaving
      badly in Italy, but the King was behaving badly in England with his
      succession of mistresses. They refused to give the king a divorce. The
      people took the side of the queen for a while but the closer it came to
      the time of the coronation, the King became more popular. By the time
      1821 when the Queen was refused admittance to the coronation the mob
      had turned against her. She died a month later.
      I think this was written in 1820.

      Any way on to stanza LXVII
      Juan and his companion are given Musselman clothes.
      They were also told that they would improve their futures if they would
      agree to circumcision.
      The older English man agreed that he thought that a few minutes pain
      might be worth future gain.
      Juan is horrified . No way will he accept that.
      The older man stops him from saying something of which he might later
      regret.
      Then poor Juan is told to dress himself i as a female.
      He is tripped up by his long skirts. Finally he is dressed, painted,
      tweezed into looking like a female.
      "Farewell, this soil seems fertile in adventures strange and new;
      One's turn'd half Mussleman, and one a maid."
      end of stanza LXXXIII





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    • nancy mayer
      ... Wealth was evident but Not taste. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 15, 2005
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        > The room into which they entered was richly furnished=---- wealth was
        > not evident but not taste.


        Wealth was evident but Not taste.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • nancy mayer
        Juan and the Englishman are separated. The Englishman jokingly reminds The maid not to fall, though even Eve did that. The maid replies that the Sultan s
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 15, 2005
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          Juan and the Englishman are separated. The Englishman jokingly reminds
          The "maid" not to fall, though even Eve did that.
          The "maid" replies that the Sultan's self shant carry me ( I think this
          means move me towards falling) , unless his Highness promises to marry me.
          Description of the route Juan took and the rooms through which he passed.
          Two great doors drew the eye and most quite overlooked the two small
          dwarfs until one almost stepped on them. They were an odd colour.
          Their duty was to open the great doors. The doors were so perfectly
          hung that they had no difficulty, though the doors were many times their
          size. They were mutes.
          Juan's guide tries to tell him to be a little more feminine in his
          movements. His stride was too manly, his demeanor was not modest
          enough.... he did not keep his eyes downcast but stared boldly around
          at everything.

          The room into which they entered was richly furnished=---- wealth was
          evident but not taste.
          The two were shown into a room in which a woman lay under a canopy.
          Baba , the guide , knelt so Juan followed suit.
          She rose from her bed and beckoned Baba to her.
          Her court of young maidens was dismissed and Juan called forward to
          kiss the foot of the great lady.
          Juan said he could not kiss anyone's foot, except that of the Pope.
          Baba , indignant at this ill-timed pride, made threats but Juan stood
          firm. He would not kiss a foot but to kiss the hand of a lady was no
          problem.
          The lady is described-- she was a Sultan's bride( thank Heaven not
          mine!) the narrator says. She had been brought up form birth to expect
          and receive instant obedience.
          She had seen Juan and had wanted him so Baba brought him to her. When
          she asks him"Christian canst thou Love?" neither of them as prepared
          for his tears. His heart was too full of Haidee to speak. He , of
          course, hated it that he cried.
          When she threw herself on Juan, he was a true hero of Romance and said
          "The prison'd eagle will not pair, nor I/ Serve a Sultana's sensual
          phantasy."
          "Love is for the free" not compelled, not forced from a prisoner dressed
          in woman's clothes.
          "Our hearts are still our own."
          This sent The Sultana into a rage She wanted to kill, kill, kill.
          Her first thought was to cut off Juan's head. Her second was only to
          cut his -----acquaintance.
          The third to ask where he had been bred
          the fourth to rally him to repentance
          the fifth to call her maids and go to bed
          the sixth to stab herself
          the seventh to sentence Baba to be whipped
          but her grand recourse was to sit down and cry, of course.

          Juan was moved. he had resigned himself to death.
          But al his preparatives for dying
          Dissolved like snow before a woman's crying.
          His virtue also dissolved and flowed away. In deed he chastised himself
          for making her cry.
          He was about to make peace with her when Baba entered with word that the
          Sultan was coming.

          He arrived with an entourage. He saw Juan and commented that the
          Christian maid was pretty arousing jealousy in everyone.
          The narrator comments that in eastern climes the sun loosens the bonds
          of virtue.
          Though Byron was ostensibly writing about a Turkish court, everyone who
          read this could laugh and see the joke for there was quite as much
          vice and adultery in northern climes as southern.
          Nancy



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Elizabeth Whitt
          Nancy, It s just a guess, but I thought Cressys were cresset lights. I have read that they were used in some cathedrals before electricity. A casque was a
          Message 4 of 16 , Oct 2, 2005
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            Nancy, It's just a guess, but I thought "Cressys" were cresset lights. I have read that they were used in some cathedrals before electricity.
            A casque was a helmet. In 73 he mentions a rusty casque.
            e

            Canto X Juan has landed ( back up a bit to stanza 73) he goes to
            Canterbury and the Cathedral. "He breathed a thousand Cressys as he
            saw,/ The casque which never stooped, except to Time."

            Now, can any one tell me what are Cressys and what is the casque?
            Nancy


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Robinson, Charles
            I think Elizabeth is right--the OED gives the following as some of the definitions in the cress place--i print for the first definition of cresset Note
            Message 5 of 16 , Oct 2, 2005
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              I think Elizabeth is right--the OED gives the following as some of the definitions in the "cress" place--i print for the first definition of ''cresset''

              Note that Byron makes initial reference to Becket's bloody STONE as he proceeds to link helm/stone and casque/bone and casque/cressys in stanzas 73 and 74. Breathing the cressets or cressys or cressies is probably breathing the oil or grease from the light--but i suggest that breathing the cressies might mean by extension

              breathing fumes from more formalized candles that might have replaced cressies

              because cressies not only illuminate but also act to venerate, it is possible that ''breathing cressies'' might be the equivalent of breathing [mouthing, intoning, expressing] prayers--note how the word ''cresset'' is used figuratively as ''torch'' below

              cresset--A vessel of iron or the like, made to hold grease or oil, or an iron basket to hold pitched rope, wood, or coal, to be burnt for light; usually mounted on the top of a pole or building, or suspended from a roof. Frequent as a historical word; in actual use applied to a fire-basket for giving light on a wharf, etc.

              {dag}b. A cavity in a cresset-stone. Obs.
              1593 Rites & Mon. Ch. Durh. (Surtees) 72 A four square stone, wherein was a dozen cressets wrought..being ever filled and supplied with the cooke as they needed, to give light to the Monks.
              2. transf. and fig.; cf. torch.
              1578 Chr. Prayers in Priv. Prayers (1851) 445 Unto the spiritual world the cresset is thy wisdom. 1581 MARBECK <http://proxy.nss.udel.edu:2135/help/bib/oed2-m2.html#marbeck> Bk. of Notes 154 So doth our Sauiour saie of Iohn Baptist, that he was a burning and blasing cresset. 1604 DRAYTON <http://proxy.nss.udel.edu:2135/help/bib/oed2-d2.html#drayton> Owle 1140 The bright Cressit of the Glorious Skie. 1826 SCOTT <http://proxy.nss.udel.edu:2135/help/bib/oed2-s.html#scott> Woodst. xxxiii, The moon..hung her dim dull cresset in the heavens. 1877 BRYANT <http://proxy.nss.udel.edu:2135/help/bib/oed2-b4.html#bryant> Constellations 13 The resplendent cressets which the Twins Uplifted.

              c e robinson
              u of delaware

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Elizabeth Whitt [mailto:ewhitt@...]
              Sent: Sun 10/2/2005 7:11 AM
              To: Byron@yahoogroups.com
              Cc:
              Subject: Re: [Byron] DJ



              Nancy, It's just a guess, but I thought "Cressys" were cresset lights. I have read that they were used in some cathedrals before electricity.
              A casque was a helmet. In 73 he mentions a rusty casque.
              e

              Canto X Juan has landed ( back up a bit to stanza 73) he goes to
              Canterbury and the Cathedral. "He breathed a thousand Cressys as he
              saw,/ The casque which never stooped, except to Time."

              Now, can any one tell me what are Cressys and what is the casque?
              Nancy


              [
            • R. Nesvet
              Dear Prof Robinson, Please find enclosed the flyer for the November, NYC rehearsed reading of David s Lyre (play inspired by Nathan/Byron relationship and
              Message 6 of 16 , Oct 2, 2005
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                Dear Prof Robinson,

                Please find enclosed the flyer for the November, NYC
                rehearsed reading of David's Lyre (play inspired by
                Nathan/Byron relationship and HEBREW MELODIES) as
                requested.

                I have secured a $1500 grant to fully produce the
                play, and director Jane Prendergast and I hope to find
                a venue (university theatre?) and/or additional
                funding. I hope to see many Byron scholars and fans at
                the reading, but, for those who can't make it, the
                script is available upon request.

                Best wishes,

                RL Nesvet
                E-mail: upstart_crow2@...
                Plays: www.geocities.com/upstart_crow2

                ------------------------------
                "War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight, the lawyer's jest, and the hired assassin's trade."

                - Percy Bysshe Shelley

                "So that they may overthrow the government they parade “liberty.” If they succeed, they will attack liberty itself."

                - Justus Lipsius





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              • R. Nesvet
                It was positively awful. All the characters are one-dimensional, and Michael Sheen s bombastious lines leave him no option but to chew the invisible scenery as
                Message 7 of 16 , Oct 2, 2005
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                  It was positively awful. All the characters are
                  one-dimensional, and Michael Sheen's bombastious lines
                  leave him no option but to chew the invisible scenery
                  as if he's parodying Kenneth Branagh at Agincourt.
                  That's not his fault -- he was a wonderful 3D Mozart
                  in AMADEUS a few years back.

                  Some of the devices (Fletcher as plot glue and the
                  intermittent sorrowful bouzouki music) sound ripped
                  off the BBC tv film.

                  There are zero female characters, though some women
                  are discussed by the all-male cast. There is a strong
                  suggestion that Byron's death drive comes from
                  internalised homophobia, but his relationship with
                  Loukas Khalandritsanos is completely desexualised.

                  There is a weird colonialist tone in that the Greek
                  "locals" never speak, with the exception of a few
                  words from Loukas. Lots of Byron's lines are from his
                  writings, which would be fine except that they seem
                  hammered into dialogue that is otherwise stagey and
                  bursting with exposition. Such as, apparently to
                  establish setting, "Can I borrow the gondola? There's
                  a masquerade."

                  There was zero investigation of whether the war was
                  actually necessary, how or to what extent the Greeks
                  were actually "suffering" or "enslaved" by the Turks,
                  and no mention of either Mavrocordato's prior
                  interaction with Byron and the Italians or Gamba's
                  eventual premature death in the war. Those
                  complexities could have made this an interesting, new
                  radio play instead of a stale, lazy one.





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                • nancy mayer
                  How can one breathe a light? but I thought Cressys were cresset lights. Thanks. I had also seen casque as a helmet but wondered. Nancy [Non-text portions of
                  Message 8 of 16 , Oct 2, 2005
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                    How can one breathe a light?

                    but I thought "Cressys" were cresset lights.


                    Thanks. I had also seen casque as a helmet but wondered.
                    Nancy


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • nancy mayer
                    Thanks for the replies on Cressys and casque. Great. I wondered if Cressy might have been the name of some old archbishop whose name was attached to a prayer.
                    Message 9 of 16 , Oct 2, 2005
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                      Thanks for the replies on Cressys and casque. Great. I wondered if
                      Cressy might have been the name of some old archbishop whose name was
                      attached to a prayer. Or if it was a name for the movements of the
                      hands of a Catholic as the catholic crosses himself. The breathing of
                      Cressys in context made me think that he crossed himself.
                      Nancy


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • nancy mayer
                      I must say that so far I have found that those critics who wrote about Jane Austen have done a better job of putting her in context of her time, than have
                      Message 10 of 16 , Oct 2, 2005
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                        I must say that so far I have found that those critics who wrote about
                        Jane Austen have done a better job of putting her in context of her
                        time, than have those who write about Byron.
                        Much of the "context" of the books about his poetry is putting his
                        poetry into the context and history of poetry and not into the political
                        and social life of the Regency. There is more about the style and form
                        of Byron's poetry-- a subject about which I am least interested (sorry)
                        :'( -- than about the times in which he lived.
                        There is much about Byron's life which could be better understood if his
                        times were better known. For instance, what was the political climate
                        and political parties of the day? Why did "Lines to a daughter
                        Weeping" or "Vision of Judgement" rouse critical fury? What did Byron
                        object to in Castlereagh's policies and who was Castlereagh ( actually,
                        what position did Castlereagh hold that made him an object of scorn by
                        Byron? Castlereagh as a mere heir to the Maquess of Londonderry was
                        inoffensive, if reputed to be cold to all except close friends and his
                        wife.)
                        Why is the separation of Lord and Lady Byron sometimes called a divorce?
                        Could either have married some one else at that time? Why did Lady
                        Byron fear having her daughter taken from her? What was behind her
                        having the child made a Ward in Chancery? How did Byron get to be a
                        Lord and what did the House of Lords' do? What privileges did Byron have
                        as a peer? What failure of Lord Carlisle's ( or what action did Byron
                        think Lord Carlisle had failed to take) led to a stinging mention in
                        English bards and why was Byron mistaken?
                        Why were the Hunt brothers imprisoned ? Hobhouse? and how did one
                        become an MP?
                        I know the answers to most of these questions, I hasten to add lest
                        any think I am completely ignorant. BUt I have learned them through
                        reading many different sources.
                        Is there any source that takes up something like Byron and Castlereagh?
                        Byron and the Tories?
                        or even Byron and the House of Lords?
                        Nancy


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                      • Anne Mott
                        Well, if you have been to Canterbury you will know that Byron is talking about Black Edward s helm - Edward theThe Black Prince, the hero of the battle of
                        Message 11 of 16 , Oct 2, 2005
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                          Well, if you have been to Canterbury you will know that Byron is talking about "Black Edward's helm" - Edward theThe Black Prince, the hero of the battle of Cressy whose helm (casque) is still there bowed even yet, to nothing but Time.

                          Come on people -

                          Anne

                          ________________________________

                          From: Byron@yahoogroups.com on behalf of nancy mayer
                          Sent: Sat 10/1/2005 7:17 PM
                          To: Byron@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [Byron] DJ



                          Canto X Juan has landed ( back up a bit to stanza 73) he goes to
                          Canterbury and the Cathedral. "He breathed a thousand Cressys as he
                          saw,/ The casque which never stooped, except to Time."

                          Now, can any one tell me what are Cressys and what is the casque?
                          Nancy


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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                        • emmh@ntlworld.com
                          Well, I live a few hours from Canterbury, have never been there, and the meaning of those lines would not have been immediately apparent to me if they were not
                          Message 12 of 16 , Oct 3, 2005
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                            Well, I live a few hours from Canterbury, have never been there, and
                            the meaning of those lines would not have been immediately apparent to
                            me if they were not annotated. I agree with Nancy that Byron is poorly
                            annotated, if annotated at all.

                            Shame if some poor kid, who wants to read Byron, but doesn't have the
                            means to go to Canterbury, gives up because she/he can't get the
                            references.



                            On 3 Oct 2005, at 07:24, Anne Mott wrote:

                            > Well, if you have been to Canterbury you will know that Byron is
                            > talking about "Black Edward's helm" - Edward theThe Black Prince, the
                            > hero of the battle of Cressy whose helm (casque) is still there bowed
                            > even yet, to nothing but Time.
                            >
                            > Come on people -
                            >
                            > Anne
                            >
                            > ________________________________
                            >
                            > From: Byron@yahoogroups.com on behalf of nancy mayer
                            > Sent: Sat 10/1/2005 7:17 PM
                            > To: Byron@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: [Byron] DJ
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Canto X Juan has landed ( back up a bit to stanza 73) he goes to
                            > Canterbury and the Cathedral.  "He breathed  a thousand  Cressys  as
                            > he
                            > saw,/ The casque which never stooped, except to Time."
                            >
                            > Now, can any one tell me what are Cressys and what is the casque?
                            > Nancy
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • nancy mayer
                            I went to Canterbury more than 30 years ago and do not remember looking at the casque. I did not bother to take out my booklet on the Cathedral , which I
                            Message 13 of 16 , Oct 3, 2005
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                              I went to Canterbury more than 30 years ago and do not remember looking
                              at the casque. I did not bother to take out my booklet on the Cathedral
                              , which I should have. Anne Mott's explanation fits in with Juan's
                              past. He would say "Cressy" reverently-- which is the feeling I caught
                              from the reference to Cressys.
                              Thanks, Anne.
                              Nancy



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • nancy mayer
                              Though why should Asinov be the only person to elucidate Cressy and the casque? The fact that many English would be familiar with those things is not a valid
                              Message 14 of 16 , Oct 3, 2005
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                                Though why should Asinov be the only person to elucidate Cressy and the
                                casque? The fact that many English would be familiar with those things
                                is not a valid excuse-- as we have just shown. I know that I connect
                                Canterbury more with Pilgrims and Becket than with kings and warriors.
                                Some how I think all such are remembered at Westminster. A mistake , I
                                know, but one that shows that annotations need to be much more detailed
                                as we move further from Byron's time
                                Nancy


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