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Re: [Buddhism_101] Re: Jesus was Buddhist!

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  • John Pellecchia
    Good morning Sal, I m sure there are many sites on the Internet that misrepresent the concept of Buddhism especially that of Maitreya, Buddha, and Jesus. In
    Message 1 of 26 , Oct 1, 2008
      Good morning Sal,

      I'm sure there are many sites on the Internet that misrepresent the concept of Buddhism especially that of Maitreya, Buddha, and Jesus. In fact on one such site they purport that Mohammed is really the expected Maitreya.

      > "...then to what purpose is the belief of reincarnation. Is not the purpose of the reincarnation to learn that which one needs to obtain perfection. How is one to do so without the history of the past and the promise of the future.

      "If there is no creator, then to what end of it all. Is it not the promise of being in the eternal presence of Gods Love which the soul follows and draws wisdom and strength from. For if there is nothing else once one has achieved perfection, then the promise of reincarnation would only lead one to not learn his or her lesson, not achieve perfection to gaurantee immortality. (I do love this debate simply that it is an exercise in spirituality on its most provoked level. I will respect your wishes and bait you no further.)"

      Just remember that I am not a Lama or monk. I have no empowerments so much of what I am writing please take with that understanding.

      As to a Supreme Being this is another contested belief among some Buddhists. This is one of the ten unanswered questions of the Buddha and I believe I wrote on this subject earlier. You may wish to read the following from "Good Question, Good Answer" by the Venerable Shravasti Dhammika at http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda03.htm .

      Your statement, however, (at least to my understanding) presupposes that there is a permanent "soul" or atman. In Buddhism there is no such concept of soul but rather of non-soul (anatman) since no "thing" is permanent. The concept of "reincarnation" is a Hindu belief; that there is an eternal self (atman) that migrates from body to body prior to birth. Buddhists believe in "rebirth" although some use the two terms (reincarnation and rebirth) interchangeably. Upon attaining Nirvana one transcends the act of rebirth and ends the cycle of rebirth. No immortality. No living in some heavenly state of unspeakable bliss. No suffering. No rebirth. So, what is reborn until that state is achieved? In my understanding it is "consciousness" but it is clouded by our belief in "ego" or "self". We each have Buddha-nature as our natural state that is clouded by Samsara. We just have to awaken to make that realization. That is the reason we meditate, practice, and study.

      Have a great day.

      May all be at peace.

      John

      Impermanent are all compounded things.
      When one perceives this with true insight,
      then one becomes detached from suffering;
      this is the path of purification.
      (Dhammapada 20.277)




      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Sal_ B <salbecker@...>

      John a Blessed Morning to you,

      Sorely misworded I apologize for the wording and making up the word
      misworded. I was truly asking the question as to the claim that Buddha
      foretold the coming of Christ as it is something I heard sometime back
      and do not remember the source.

      If in Buddhism there is not to be any thought or concentration to the
      past or the future, the "NOW" being the focus, then to what purpose is
      the belief of reincarnation. Is not the purpose of the reincarnation
      to learn that which one needs to obtain perfection. How is one to do
      so without the history of the past and the promise of the future.

      If there is no creator, then to what end of it all. Is it not the
      promise of being in the eternal presence of Gods Love which the soul
      follows and draws wisdom and strength from. For if there is nothing
      else once one has achieved perfection, then the promise of
      reincarnation would only lead one to not learn his or her lesson, not
      achieve perfection to gaurantee immortality. (I do love this debate
      simply that it is an exercise in spirituality on its most provoked
      level. I will respect your wishes and bait you no further.)

      I ask these questions and share my understanding as they are this
      point in my learning, in the spirit of learning, I thank you for you
      responses and those of the others.

      Namaste

      Sal
    • Rob Christie
      The more I think about the nature of what I believe in, the more difficult it becomes to answer that very question. I think I have come to the conclusion that
      Message 2 of 26 , Oct 1, 2008
        The more I think about the nature of what I believe in, the more difficult it becomes to answer that very question.
        I think I have come to the conclusion that I may be nihilist and I will have to come to terms with that. What is so troubling to me, is that the spiritual nature that I seem to crave, is ultimately pointless to me because I do believe that the death is the end.
        I see great potential in living for the now and the service of others, but when I die, I believe the candle is out and the worms will play pea knuckle on my snout.
        So Sal, that is a fine question and probably my weakest area of practice, as if I have much practice right now, nihilism takes an enormous amount of energy.
        One thing that has always stuck out for me is the principle of neti-neti. Roughly translated, neither this nor that. Maybe the Buddha used this principle as a univesal loophole. Reincarnation is not for everyone. Reincarnation is for everyone.

        Maybe this will spark an inerest for me. Maybe this will not spark an interest for me.
        Rob

        --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Sal_ B <salbecker@...> wrote:
        From: Sal_ B <salbecker@...>
        Subject: [Buddhism_101] Re: Jesus was Buddhist!
        To: Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 8:54 AM











        John a Blessed Morning to you,



        Sorely misworded I apologize for the wording and making up the word

        misworded. I was truly asking the question as to the claim that Buddha

        foretold the coming of Christ as it is something I heard sometime back

        and do not remember the source.



        If in Buddhism there is not to be any thought or concentration to the

        past or the future, the "NOW" being the focus, then to what purpose is

        the belief of reincarnation. Is not the purpose of the reincarnation

        to learn that which one needs to obtain perfection. How is one to do

        so without the history of the past and the promise of the future.



        If there is no creator, then to what end of it all. Is it not the

        promise of being in the eternal presence of Gods Love which the soul

        follows and draws wisdom and strength from. For if there is nothing

        else once one has achieved perfection, then the promise of

        reincarnation would only lead one to not learn his or her lesson, not

        achieve perfection to gaurantee immortality. (I do love this debate

        simply that it is an exercise in spirituality on its most provoked

        level. I will respect your wishes and bait you no further.)



        I ask these questions and share my understanding as they are this

        point in my learning, in the spirit of learning, I thank you for you

        responses and those of the others.



        Namaste



        Sal



        --- In Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com, John Pellecchia <pellejf@... > wrote:

        >

        > Good morning Sal,

        >

        > > "Did not Buddha foretell the coming of Christ and call him greater

        than he?"

        >

        > I'm not certain of the accuracy of this statement. I know of no

        sutra that makes such a claim. Perhaps you can cite the source? The

        Buddha Shakyamuni predicted the coming of the Maitreya (the future

        Buddha) but if one considers that to be Jesus the timeline of the

        sutras is off kilter with history. Anyway, how could one perfect

        being, i.e. a Buddha, be greater than another?

        >

        > "According to some Buddhist traditions, the period of the Buddhist

        Law is divided into three stages: a first period of 500 years, of the

        turning the Wheel of the Law; a second period of 1,000 years, of the

        deterioration of the Law, and a third period of 3,000 years (called

        Mappo in Japan) during which no one practises the Law. After this,

        Buddhism having disappeared, a new Buddha will appear who will again

        turn the Wheel of the Law." (from

        http://www.buddhane t.net/e-learning /history/ maitreya2. htm ). We are

        currently closer to the Buddhist traditional timeline for Maitreya

        than that of the historical Jesus who appeared only some 500 after Buddha.

        >

        > The sutra states:

        >

        > �At that period, brethren, there will arise in the world an

        Exalted One named Maitreya, Fully Awakened, abounding in wisdom and

        goodness, happy, with knowledge of the worlds, unsurpassed as a guide

        to mortals willing to be led, a teacher for gods and men, an Exalted

        One, a Buddha, even as I am now. He, by himself, will thoroughly know

        and see, as it were face to face, this universe, with Its worlds of

        the spirits, Its Brahmas and Its Maras, and Its world of recluses and

        Brahmins, of princes and peoples, even as I now, by myself, thoroughly

        know and see them� (Digha Nikaya, 26).

        >

        > Of course all of this is a moot point since we are taught to be

        concerned with neither the past nor the future but only the present;

        this Now. I leave this for others to consider.

        >

        > Since I do not subscribe to a Supreme Being (God) I will leave that

        fetter untied (smile). I've discussed that issue far too often in the

        past.

        >

        > May all be at peace.

        >

        > John

        >

        > They do not lament over the past,

        > they yearn not for what is to come,

        > they maintain themselves in the present,

        > thus their complexion is serene.

        > (Samyutta Nikaya 1, 10)

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        >

        > ----- Original Message ----

        > From: Sal_ B <salbecker@. ..>

        >

        > John,

        >

        > As I read more and more I see a similarity between the ancient Hindu

        > Teachings and the Teachings of Christ. I also see the stark influence

        > of the Hindu teachings in the child of Buddhism.

        >

        > As Buddha sought more from his Hindu beginnings, so was the evolution

        > in the life and teachings of Christ. Did not Buddha foretell the

        > coming of Christ and call him greater than he?

        >

        > To me, Buddha sought to explain on an intellectual plane the essence

        > of man, whereas the teachings and philosophy of Hindu and Christ were

        > on the spiritual recognition of God in all things with non having a

        > higher authority than another as all were Gods children and thus were

        > God himself.

        >

        > My Humble Opinion

        >

        > Sal

        >

        >

        >

        > --- In Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com, John Pellecchia <pellejf@> wrote:

        > >

        > > This is one of those topics that periodically appear on the Internet

        > among Buddhists and perhaps some liberal-minded Christians. If we take

        > the words and actions of Jesus in the New Testament as being accurate

        > we may see some similarities in thought between the teachings of the

        > Buddha and Jesus. Perhaps the concepts of love and equanimity are

        > universal truths. But we also see significant differences between the

        > two: resurrection vs rebirth, eternal life vs impermanence,

        > proclamation of being a deity (Son of God) vs denial of any

        > deification, etc to cite the more obvious.

        > >

        > > Perhaps the similarities between the teachings of the two are

        > nothing more than like minds having similar thoughts. Upon deeper

        > scrutiny, however, I am more inclined to see similarities between New

        > Testament teachings and aspects of the ancient Egyptian belief system

        > (soul [ see http://www.philae. nu/akhet/ KaBa.html ], an eternal

        > afterlife, as well as some of the teachings and prayers in the

        > Egyptian so-called "Book of the Dead" and hymns [see

        > http://www.historel .net/english/ egypt/18nouemp. htm ). We are told in

        > the Christian New Testament that Jesus spent a portion of his early

        > formative years in Egypt [the Flight into Egypt to escape Herod] where

        > he would have been more exposed to that belief system than Buddhism.

        > >

        > > Did Jesus receive Buddhist teachings during his "lost years"? My

        > respectful answer is: "I doubt it but does it really matter? Who

        > really cares?"

        > >

        > > May all be at peace.

        > >

        > > John

        > >

        > > "The well-instructed disciple of the noble ones..... attends

        > appropriately, This is stress... This is the origination of stress...

        > This is the cessation of stress... This is the way leading to the

        > cessation of stress. As he attends appropriately in this way, three

        > fetters are abandoned in him: identity-view, doubt, and grasping at

        > precepts and practices." (Sabbasava Sutta��"All the Fermentations)

        > >

        > >

        > > ----- Original Message ----

        > > From: Bhikkhu Samahita <bhikkhu0@> wrote in part

        > >

        > > A Friend asked:

        > >

        > > Question: How does Buddhists regard Jesus?

        > >

        > > Answer:

        > > Personally I think Jesus had learned a lot of late Buddhism

        > > during the 19 years he was (lost) wandering around in Asia:

        > > Jesus, then called Issa, was a pupil of the Buddha:

        > >

        > > For quite solid & sound documentation see

        > > http://reluctant- messenger. com/issa. htm

        > >

        >

        >

        >

        > ------------ --------- --------- ------

        >

        > Yahoo! Groups Links

        >





























        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sal_ B
        John and Rob, I truly do not wish to hijack this thread. But....;) Having given thought to your words John, and aligning them to my current readings, I would
        Message 3 of 26 , Oct 1, 2008
          John and Rob,

          I truly do not wish to hijack this thread. But....;)

          Having given thought to your words John, and aligning them to my
          current readings, I would have to come to the conclusion that Jesus
          was not a Buddhist. I would agree he more than likely studied the
          teachings of Bhudda.

          But to underlying message of Jesus, I would be more inclined to say
          that he aligned himself more with the living in the pure love of God
          from the Hindu Beliefs. As I read more of the Hindu teachings and
          compare them to the teachings of Christ, I see more purely the Hindu
          influence on Jesus.

          I interchange Jesus and Christ here simply as a point of Jesus the man
          who achieved enlightenment in the pure love of God and became the Christ.

          I assures you, the Bhudda's, The Hindu Saints, The Christ and the
          Christ like Saints of Christianity as well as the holy men all the
          peoples of the world conspire to see man achieve enlightenment.

          Namaste and Peace to All

          Sal


          --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, John Pellecchia <pellejf@...> wrote:
          >
          > Good morning Sal,
          >
          > I'm sure there are many sites on the Internet that misrepresent the
          concept of Buddhism especially that of Maitreya, Buddha, and Jesus. In
          fact on one such site they purport that Mohammed is really the
          expected Maitreya.
          >
          > > "...then to what purpose is the belief of reincarnation. Is not
          the purpose of the reincarnation to learn that which one needs to
          obtain perfection. How is one to do so without the history of the past
          and the promise of the future.
          >
          > "If there is no creator, then to what end of it all. Is it not the
          promise of being in the eternal presence of Gods Love which the soul
          follows and draws wisdom and strength from. For if there is nothing
          else once one has achieved perfection, then the promise of
          reincarnation would only lead one to not learn his or her lesson, not
          achieve perfection to gaurantee immortality. (I do love this debate
          simply that it is an exercise in spirituality on its most provoked
          level. I will respect your wishes and bait you no further.)"
          >
          > Just remember that I am not a Lama or monk. I have no empowerments
          so much of what I am writing please take with that understanding.
          >
          > As to a Supreme Being this is another contested belief among some
          Buddhists. This is one of the ten unanswered questions of the Buddha
          and I believe I wrote on this subject earlier. You may wish to read
          the following from "Good Question, Good Answer" by the Venerable
          Shravasti Dhammika at http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda03.htm .
          >
          > Your statement, however, (at least to my understanding) presupposes
          that there is a permanent "soul" or atman. In Buddhism there is no
          such concept of soul but rather of non-soul (anatman) since no "thing"
          is permanent. The concept of "reincarnation" is a Hindu belief; that
          there is an eternal self (atman) that migrates from body to body prior
          to birth. Buddhists believe in "rebirth" although some use the two
          terms (reincarnation and rebirth) interchangeably. Upon attaining
          Nirvana one transcends the act of rebirth and ends the cycle of
          rebirth. No immortality. No living in some heavenly state of
          unspeakable bliss. No suffering. No rebirth. So, what is reborn until
          that state is achieved? In my understanding it is "consciousness" but
          it is clouded by our belief in "ego" or "self". We each have
          Buddha-nature as our natural state that is clouded by Samsara. We just
          have to awaken to make that realization. That is the reason we
          meditate, practice, and study.
          >
          > Have a great day.
          >
          > May all be at peace.
          >
          > John
          >
          > Impermanent are all compounded things.
          > When one perceives this with true insight,
          > then one becomes detached from suffering;
          > this is the path of purification.
          > (Dhammapada 20.277)
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message ----
          > From: Sal_ B <salbecker@...>
          >
          > John a Blessed Morning to you,
          >
          > Sorely misworded I apologize for the wording and making up the word
          > misworded. I was truly asking the question as to the claim that Buddha
          > foretold the coming of Christ as it is something I heard sometime back
          > and do not remember the source.
          >
          > If in Buddhism there is not to be any thought or concentration to the
          > past or the future, the "NOW" being the focus, then to what purpose is
          > the belief of reincarnation. Is not the purpose of the reincarnation
          > to learn that which one needs to obtain perfection. How is one to do
          > so without the history of the past and the promise of the future.
          >
          > If there is no creator, then to what end of it all. Is it not the
          > promise of being in the eternal presence of Gods Love which the soul
          > follows and draws wisdom and strength from. For if there is nothing
          > else once one has achieved perfection, then the promise of
          > reincarnation would only lead one to not learn his or her lesson, not
          > achieve perfection to gaurantee immortality. (I do love this debate
          > simply that it is an exercise in spirituality on its most provoked
          > level. I will respect your wishes and bait you no further.)
          >
          > I ask these questions and share my understanding as they are this
          > point in my learning, in the spirit of learning, I thank you for you
          > responses and those of the others.
          >
          > Namaste
          >
          > Sal
          >
        • bjpnest@aol.com
          Dear Friends, I have been reading this thread with interest. What comes across to me are writers trying to explain their own beliefs and hoping to mesh or
          Message 4 of 26 , Oct 1, 2008
            Dear Friends,
            I have been reading this thread with interest. What comes across to me are
            writers trying to explain their own beliefs and hoping to mesh or weave them
            into a universality. It will keep going around and around in circles with no
            concrete resolution as each tries to "promote" his or her own case. It is a
            good thing that we do not all believe the same way. Having said that,
            there are only so many ways we can say the same thing, as I am beginning to
            understand these messages. We must agree to disagree since none of us will ever
            be able to positively say, "This is the answer." And is that so bad? I
            think, Yes. Because it keeps us embroiled in mini debates that can not be proved
            or disproved. It keeps us from following the path we chose when we joined
            this group. It keeps us from living NOW, in this moment. What cannot be
            answered with any surety might be better left for a Koan or for our personal
            meditation. I am much more interested in hearing what members have been through
            with the general public or teachers or any experience as it pertains to the
            here and now. I also have been sitting solitarily for a long time, but have
            been asked if I'd like to join a group that meets for a few hours a week. I
            would, but I'm not sure of protocol for entering, talking, manners, etc. in a
            more formal setting. If someone would be able to help me with this, I would
            be supremely appreciative.
            Bev


            In a message dated 10/1/2008 5:47:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
            salbecker@... writes:




            John and Rob,

            I truly do not wish to hijack this thread. But....;)

            Having given thought to your words John, and aligning them to my
            current readings, I would have to come to the conclusion that Jesus
            was not a Buddhist. I would agree he more than likely studied the
            teachings of Bhudda.

            But to underlying message of Jesus, I would be more inclined to say
            that he aligned himself more with the living in the pure love of God
            from the Hindu Beliefs. As I read more of the Hindu teachings and
            compare them to the teachings of Christ, I see more purely the Hindu
            influence on Jesus.

            I interchange Jesus and Christ here simply as a point of Jesus the man
            who achieved enlightenment in the pure love of God and became the Christ.

            I assures you, the Bhudda's, The Hindu Saints, The Christ and the
            Christ like Saints of Christianity as well as the holy men all the
            peoples of the world conspire to see man achieve enlightenment.

            Namaste and Peace to All

            Sal

            --- In _Buddhism_101@Buddhism_101Bud_ (mailto:Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com) ,
            John Pellecchia <pellejf@...> wrote:
            >
            > Good morning Sal,
            >
            > I'm sure there are many sites on the Internet that misrepresent the
            concept of Buddhism especially that of Maitreya, Buddha, and Jesus. In
            fact on one such site they purport that Mohammed is really the
            expected Maitreya.
            >
            > > "...then to what purpose is the belief of reincarnation. Is not
            the purpose of the reincarnation to learn that which one needs to
            obtain perfection. How is one to do so without the history of the past
            and the promise of the future.
            >
            > "If there is no creator, then to what end of it all. Is it not the
            promise of being in the eternal presence of Gods Love which the soul
            follows and draws wisdom and strength from. For if there is nothing
            else once one has achieved perfection, then the promise of
            reincarnation would only lead one to not learn his or her lesson, not
            achieve perfection to gaurantee immortality. (I do love this debate
            simply that it is an exercise in spirituality on its most provoked
            level. I will respect your wishes and bait you no further.)"
            >
            > Just remember that I am not a Lama or monk. I have no empowerments
            so much of what I am writing please take with that understanding.
            >
            > As to a Supreme Being this is another contested belief among some
            Buddhists. This is one of the ten unanswered questions of the Buddha
            and I believe I wrote on this subject earlier. You may wish to read
            the following from "Good Question, Good Answer" by the Venerable
            Shravasti Dhammika at _http://www.buddhanehttp://www.buddhhttp://wwhtt_
            (http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda03.htm) .
            >
            > Your statement, however, (at least to my understanding) presupposes
            that there is a permanent "soul" or atman. In Buddhism there is no
            such concept of soul but rather of non-soul (anatman) since no "thing"
            is permanent. The concept of "reincarnation" is a Hindu belief; that
            there is an eternal self (atman) that migrates from body to body prior
            to birth. Buddhists believe in "rebirth" although some use the two
            terms (reincarnation and rebirth) interchangeably. Upon attaining
            Nirvana one transcends the act of rebirth and ends the cycle of
            rebirth. No immortality. No living in some heavenly state of
            unspeakable bliss. No suffering. No rebirth. So, what is reborn until
            that state is achieved? In my understanding it is "consciousness" but
            it is clouded by our belief in "ego" or "self". We each have
            Buddha-nature as our natural state that is clouded by Samsara. We just
            have to awaken to make that realization. That is the reason we
            meditate, practice, and study.
            >
            > Have a great day.
            >
            > May all be at peace.
            >
            > John
            >
            > Impermanent are all compounded things.
            > When one perceives this with true insight,
            > then one becomes detached from suffering;
            > this is the path of purification.
            > (Dhammapada 20.277)
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message ----
            > From: Sal_ B <salbecker@.sa>
            >
            > John a Blessed Morning to you,
            >
            > Sorely misworded I apologize for the wording and making up the word
            > misworded. I was truly asking the question as to the claim that Buddha
            > foretold the coming of Christ as it is something I heard sometime back
            > and do not remember the source.
            >
            > If in Buddhism there is not to be any thought or concentration to the
            > past or the future, the "NOW" being the focus, then to what purpose is
            > the belief of reincarnation. Is not the purpose of the reincarnation
            > to learn that which one needs to obtain perfection. How is one to do
            > so without the history of the past and the promise of the future.
            >
            > If there is no creator, then to what end of it all. Is it not the
            > promise of being in the eternal presence of Gods Love which the soul
            > follows and draws wisdom and strength from. For if there is nothing
            > else once one has achieved perfection, then the promise of
            > reincarnation would only lead one to not learn his or her lesson, not
            > achieve perfection to gaurantee immortality. (I do love this debate
            > simply that it is an exercise in spirituality on its most provoked
            > level. I will respect your wishes and bait you no further.)
            >
            > I ask these questions and share my understanding as they are this
            > point in my learning, in the spirit of learning, I thank you for you
            > responses and those of the others.
            >
            > Namaste
            >
            > Sal
            >







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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sal_ B
            Bev, Very good points. For myself I am really verbalizing thoughts and direction of travel. Looking for feed back and experiences of others. Hopefully an
            Message 5 of 26 , Oct 1, 2008
              Bev,

              Very good points. For myself I am really verbalizing thoughts and
              direction of travel. Looking for feed back and experiences of others.
              Hopefully an insight I have to offer may be a missing piece in
              anothers puzzle as I look for those pieces to complete mine. There are
              many teachers.

              To the point, this discussion gave me cause to review my recent
              readings and those past on this subject. For myself I don't see the
              error or frustration in sharing ideas and beliefs with others. Surely
              you don't hold the same beliefs you did as a child. How did those
              beliefs change and grow, through being challenged by other ideas and
              beliefs which gave you cause to re-evaluate your position and beliefs.
              To me this is growth. To me stunted is the person so entrenched in
              themselves and their beliefs that they see no reason or cause to share
              them with another.

              Surely Buddha would have never grown had he been so inclined. Surely
              Buddha a student of the Hindu teachings would not have ventured to
              grow and develop his beliefs if he had held steadfast to the Hindu
              teaching and never sought to challenge them.

              As for meditation being the venue to ask these questions, most
              assuredly so. My blessings and love to all who truly, or who truly
              try, to follow that which is there heart. Hopefully it is of a good
              and pure nature. I would no more wish to change that belief than I
              would the will of God. But in sharing in respect, no harm and much
              understanding and good can come of it.

              My views I guess are more aligned with the true teachings of Christ
              and the Hindu teachings. I do belief in a Creator and I cannot image a
              more blessed and beautiful enlightenment that to be fully engrossed in
              the pure love of that Creator. I do believe there is much to learn
              from the Buddhist teachings. And most of all, I love being in the
              presence of such love as the love of the searchers.


              Namaste and Love

              Sal


              --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, bjpnest@... wrote:
              >
              > Dear Friends,
              > I have been reading this thread with interest. What comes across to
              me are
              > writers trying to explain their own beliefs and hoping to mesh or
              weave them
              > into a universality. It will keep going around and around in
              circles with no
              > concrete resolution as each tries to "promote" his or her own case.
              It is a
              > good thing that we do not all believe the same way. Having said
              that,
              > there are only so many ways we can say the same thing, as I am
              beginning to
              > understand these messages. We must agree to disagree since none of
              us will ever
              > be able to positively say, "This is the answer." And is that so
              bad? I
              > think, Yes. Because it keeps us embroiled in mini debates that can
              not be proved
              > or disproved. It keeps us from following the path we chose when we
              joined
              > this group. It keeps us from living NOW, in this moment. What
              cannot be
              > answered with any surety might be better left for a Koan or for our
              personal
              > meditation. I am much more interested in hearing what members have
              been through
              > with the general public or teachers or any experience as it
              pertains to the
              > here and now. I also have been sitting solitarily for a long time,
              but have
              > been asked if I'd like to join a group that meets for a few hours a
              week. I
              > would, but I'm not sure of protocol for entering, talking, manners,
              etc. in a
              > more formal setting. If someone would be able to help me with this,
              I would
              > be supremely appreciative.
              > Bev
              >
              >
              > In a message dated 10/1/2008 5:47:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
              > salbecker@... writes:
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > John and Rob,
              >
              > I truly do not wish to hijack this thread. But....;)
              >
              > Having given thought to your words John, and aligning them to my
              > current readings, I would have to come to the conclusion that Jesus
              > was not a Buddhist. I would agree he more than likely studied the
              > teachings of Bhudda.
              >
              > But to underlying message of Jesus, I would be more inclined to say
              > that he aligned himself more with the living in the pure love of God
              > from the Hindu Beliefs. As I read more of the Hindu teachings and
              > compare them to the teachings of Christ, I see more purely the Hindu
              > influence on Jesus.
              >
              > I interchange Jesus and Christ here simply as a point of Jesus the man
              > who achieved enlightenment in the pure love of God and became the
              Christ.
              >
              > I assures you, the Bhudda's, The Hindu Saints, The Christ and the
              > Christ like Saints of Christianity as well as the holy men all the
              > peoples of the world conspire to see man achieve enlightenment.
              >
              > Namaste and Peace to All
              >
              > Sal
              >
              > --- In _Buddhism_101@Buddhism_101Bud_
              (mailto:Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com) ,
              > John Pellecchia <pellejf@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Good morning Sal,
              > >
              > > I'm sure there are many sites on the Internet that misrepresent the
              > concept of Buddhism especially that of Maitreya, Buddha, and Jesus. In
              > fact on one such site they purport that Mohammed is really the
              > expected Maitreya.
              > >
              > > > "...then to what purpose is the belief of reincarnation. Is not
              > the purpose of the reincarnation to learn that which one needs to
              > obtain perfection. How is one to do so without the history of the past
              > and the promise of the future.
              > >
              > > "If there is no creator, then to what end of it all. Is it not the
              > promise of being in the eternal presence of Gods Love which the soul
              > follows and draws wisdom and strength from. For if there is nothing
              > else once one has achieved perfection, then the promise of
              > reincarnation would only lead one to not learn his or her lesson, not
              > achieve perfection to gaurantee immortality. (I do love this debate
              > simply that it is an exercise in spirituality on its most provoked
              > level. I will respect your wishes and bait you no further.)"
              > >
              > > Just remember that I am not a Lama or monk. I have no empowerments
              > so much of what I am writing please take with that understanding.
              > >
              > > As to a Supreme Being this is another contested belief among some
              > Buddhists. This is one of the ten unanswered questions of the Buddha
              > and I believe I wrote on this subject earlier. You may wish to read
              > the following from "Good Question, Good Answer" by the Venerable
              > Shravasti Dhammika at _http://www.buddhanehttp://www.buddhhttp://wwhtt_
              > (http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda03.htm) .
              > >
              > > Your statement, however, (at least to my understanding) presupposes
              > that there is a permanent "soul" or atman. In Buddhism there is no
              > such concept of soul but rather of non-soul (anatman) since no "thing"
              > is permanent. The concept of "reincarnation" is a Hindu belief; that
              > there is an eternal self (atman) that migrates from body to body prior
              > to birth. Buddhists believe in "rebirth" although some use the two
              > terms (reincarnation and rebirth) interchangeably. Upon attaining
              > Nirvana one transcends the act of rebirth and ends the cycle of
              > rebirth. No immortality. No living in some heavenly state of
              > unspeakable bliss. No suffering. No rebirth. So, what is reborn until
              > that state is achieved? In my understanding it is "consciousness" but
              > it is clouded by our belief in "ego" or "self". We each have
              > Buddha-nature as our natural state that is clouded by Samsara. We just
              > have to awaken to make that realization. That is the reason we
              > meditate, practice, and study.
              > >
              > > Have a great day.
              > >
              > > May all be at peace.
              > >
              > > John
              > >
              > > Impermanent are all compounded things.
              > > When one perceives this with true insight,
              > > then one becomes detached from suffering;
              > > this is the path of purification.
              > > (Dhammapada 20.277)
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ----- Original Message ----
              > > From: Sal_ B <salbecker@...>
              > >
              > > John a Blessed Morning to you,
              > >
              > > Sorely misworded I apologize for the wording and making up the word
              > > misworded. I was truly asking the question as to the claim that
              Buddha
              > > foretold the coming of Christ as it is something I heard sometime
              back
              > > and do not remember the source.
              > >
              > > If in Buddhism there is not to be any thought or concentration to the
              > > past or the future, the "NOW" being the focus, then to what
              purpose is
              > > the belief of reincarnation. Is not the purpose of the reincarnation
              > > to learn that which one needs to obtain perfection. How is one to do
              > > so without the history of the past and the promise of the future.
              > >
              > > If there is no creator, then to what end of it all. Is it not the
              > > promise of being in the eternal presence of Gods Love which the soul
              > > follows and draws wisdom and strength from. For if there is nothing
              > > else once one has achieved perfection, then the promise of
              > > reincarnation would only lead one to not learn his or her lesson, not
              > > achieve perfection to gaurantee immortality. (I do love this debate
              > > simply that it is an exercise in spirituality on its most provoked
              > > level. I will respect your wishes and bait you no further.)
              > >
              > > I ask these questions and share my understanding as they are this
              > > point in my learning, in the spirit of learning, I thank you for you
              > > responses and those of the others.
              > >
              > > Namaste
              > >
              > > Sal
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
              > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and
              information, tips and
              > calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • John Pellecchia
              Good morning Bev, I tend to agree to a certain point with your comments. While these discussions may seem to be an effort to support one s unique point of
              Message 6 of 26 , Oct 2, 2008
                Good morning Bev,

                I tend to agree to a certain point with your comments. While these discussions may seem to be an effort to support one's unique point of view, however, there is a strong history and acceptance of debate and
                discussion in Buddhism. We need to remember that the Buddha encouraged
                discussion as a means of teaching the Dharma. The sutras in the
                Tripataka are replete with this type of discourse in its record. This
                is one aspect that makes Buddhism unique as a "religion" (a hotly
                contested word usage among some Buddhists on various websites). We need
                to remember the Buddha Shakyamuni encouraged thinking-out-of-the-box.
                "Do not go by oral tradition, by lineage of teaching, by hearsay, by a
                collection of texts, by logic, by inferential reasoning, by reasoned
                cogitation, by the acceptance of a view after pondering it, by the
                seeming competence of a speaker, or because you think, 'The ascetic is
                our teacher.' But when you know for yourselves, 'These things are
                unwholesome; these things are blamable; these things are censured by
                the wise; these things, if undertaken and practiced, lead to harm and
                suffering,' then you should abandon them." ("In the Buddha's Words"
                edited by Bhikkhu Bodhi) I can only quote the words of the sutras or those of greater knowledge than myself and extrapolate what I understand.

                If you follow the thread to its earliest source you'll find that it was
                initiated to some degree by Bhikkhu Samahita (a Buddhist monk) who postulated that Jesus
                had been exposed to Buddhist concepts in the so-called "lost" years.
                Again, I find that concept somewhat far fetched; to date in the archaeological record there has been no evidence of Buddhism found in Middle Eastern areas (other than the Silk Road area in present
                day Afghanistan [see http://www.ess.uci.edu/~oliver/silk.html ]) of which I am aware. At the same time, I'm fully aware
                that Buddhism has and will continue to adapt to the specific culture to
                which it spreads, We see this in each of the Buddhist traditions in the
                Far East: China, Japan, Vietnam, Thailand, etc. People are apt to
                insert their unique societal and cultural traditions into any practice
                as it migrates.

                I, too, am somewhat concerned that there will be (perhaps "is" is more accurate) a hybridization of Buddhism as it gains popularity in Western cultures: that it will assimilate Judeo-Christian concepts into it's structure.
                I am reminded of the Vietnamese Zen monk Thich Nhat Hanh who states in his book "Living Buddha, Living Christ" that he has incorporated "…on the altar of my hermitage in France…statues of Buddhas and bodhisattvas and also an image of Jesus Christ. I do not feel any conflict within me. Instead I feel stronger because I have more than one root." Personally, I find this somewhat contradictory but I look at the more subtle concept and wonder what harm if any does it create.

                In regard to your inquiry that you "...have been asked...to join a group that meets for a few hours a week. I would, but I'm not sure of protocol for entering, talking, manners, etc. in a more formal setting. If someone would be able to help me with this, I would be supremely appreciative." A lot will depend upon the tradition that the group is following. You're best to contact one of the group leaders and ask him or her what is the protocol to which they adhere. Many groups have a pamphlet available for newcomers that outlines their ceremony if any. More formal groups may have a ceremony including prayers and prostrations. If the group meets in a shrine room typically shoes are removed before entering as a sign of respect. More informal groups may have a text they are reading as a group followed by a discussion of how the text relates to each of them. In any respect take advantage of the offer. Don't allow your uncertainty to keep you from
                attending what will probably be a positive experience. I hope this is of some help.

                May all be at peace.

                John

                If for company you find a wise and prudent friend
                who leads a good life,
                you should, overcoming all impediments,
                keep his company joyously and mindfully.
                (The Dhammapada 22:328




                ----- Original Message ----
                From: "bjpnest@..." <bjpnest@...>

                Dear Friends,
                I have been reading this thread with interest. What comes across to me are
                writers trying to explain their own beliefs and hoping to mesh or weave them
                into a universality. It will keep going around and around in circles with no
                concrete resolution as each tries to "promote" his or her own case. It is a
                good thing that we do not all believe the same way. Having said that,
                there are only so many ways we can say the same thing, as I am beginning to
                understand these messages. We must agree to disagree since none of us will ever
                be able to positively say, "This is the answer." And is that so bad? I
                think, Yes. Because it keeps us embroiled in mini debates that can not be proved
                or disproved. It keeps us from following the path we chose when we joined
                this group. It keeps us from living NOW, in this moment. What cannot be
                answered with any surety might be better left for a Koan or for our personal
                meditation. I am much more interested in hearing what members have been through
                with the general public or teachers or any experience as it pertains to the
                here and now. I also have been sitting solitarily for a long time, but have
                been asked if I'd like to join a group that meets for a few hours a week. I
                would, but I'm not sure of protocol for entering, talking, manners, etc. in a
                more formal setting. If someone would be able to help me with this, I would
                be supremely appreciative.
                Bev
              • ken
                ... Hash: SHA1 Thanks for that, John. (I ve saved the quote off to my notes.) Here s another: The ultimate view is to observe one s own mind, steadfastly
                Message 7 of 26 , Oct 2, 2008
                  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
                  Hash: SHA1


                  Thanks for that, John. (I've saved the quote off to my notes.) Here's
                  another:

                  "The ultimate view is to observe one's own mind,
                  steadfastly and with determination.
                  Buddhahood cannot be found outside,
                  so contemplate your own mind.
                  Behold and watch unborn awareness;
                  how can common meditation match it?

                  The ultimate guru is Buddha-mind within;
                  do not seek elsewhere.
                  All forms are nothing but mind.
                  Recognizing one's true nature as Dharmakaya,
                  swiftly actualize immanent Buddhahood. "

                  - - Milarepa, in a song to Gampopa


                  Sorry I don't have a more precise citation for it.



                  On 10/02/2008 06:09 AM John Pellecchia wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Good morning Bev,
                  >
                  > I tend to agree to a certain point with your comments. While these
                  > discussions may seem to be an effort to support one's unique point of
                  > view, however, there is a strong history and acceptance of debate and
                  > discussion in Buddhism. We need to remember that the Buddha encouraged
                  > discussion as a means of teaching the Dharma. The sutras in the
                  > Tripataka are replete with this type of discourse in its record. This
                  > is one aspect that makes Buddhism unique as a "religion" (a hotly
                  > contested word usage among some Buddhists on various websites). We need
                  > to remember the Buddha Shakyamuni encouraged thinking-out-of-the-box.
                  > "Do not go by oral tradition, by lineage of teaching, by hearsay, by a
                  > collection of texts, by logic, by inferential reasoning, by reasoned
                  > cogitation, by the acceptance of a view after pondering it, by the
                  > seeming competence of a speaker, or because you think, 'The ascetic is
                  > our teacher.' But when you know for yourselves, 'These things are
                  > unwholesome; these things are blamable; these things are censured by
                  > the wise; these things, if undertaken and practiced, lead to harm and
                  > suffering,' then you should abandon them." ("In the Buddha's Words"
                  > edited by Bhikkhu Bodhi) I can only quote the words of the sutras or
                  > those of greater knowledge than myself and extrapolate what I understand.
                  >
                  > If you follow the thread to its earliest source you'll find that it was
                  > initiated to some degree by Bhikkhu Samahita (a Buddhist monk) who
                  > postulated that Jesus
                  > had been exposed to Buddhist concepts in the so-called "lost" years.
                  > Again, I find that concept somewhat far fetched; to date in the
                  > archaeological record there has been no evidence of Buddhism found in
                  > Middle Eastern areas (other than the Silk Road area in present
                  > day Afghanistan [see http://www.ess.uci.edu/~oliver/silk.html
                  > <http://www.ess.uci.edu/~oliver/silk.html> ]) of which I am aware. At
                  > the same time, I'm fully aware
                  > that Buddhism has and will continue to adapt to the specific culture to
                  > which it spreads, We see this in each of the Buddhist traditions in the
                  > Far East: China, Japan, Vietnam, Thailand, etc. People are apt to
                  > insert their unique societal and cultural traditions into any practice
                  > as it migrates.
                  >
                  > I, too, am somewhat concerned that there will be (perhaps "is" is more
                  > accurate) a hybridization of Buddhism as it gains popularity in Western
                  > cultures: that it will assimilate Judeo-Christian concepts into it's
                  > structure.
                  > I am reminded of the Vietnamese Zen monk Thich Nhat Hanh who states in
                  > his book "Living Buddha, Living Christ" that he has incorporated "…on
                  > the altar of my hermitage in France…statues of Buddhas and bodhisattvas
                  > and also an image of Jesus Christ. I do not feel any conflict within me.
                  > Instead I feel stronger because I have more than one root." Personally,
                  > I find this somewhat contradictory but I look at the more subtle concept
                  > and wonder what harm if any does it create.
                  >
                  > In regard to your inquiry that you "...have been asked...to join a group
                  > that meets for a few hours a week. I would, but I'm not sure of protocol
                  > for entering, talking, manners, etc. in a more formal setting. If
                  > someone would be able to help me with this, I would be supremely
                  > appreciative." A lot will depend upon the tradition that the group is
                  > following. You're best to contact one of the group leaders and ask him
                  > or her what is the protocol to which they adhere. Many groups have a
                  > pamphlet available for newcomers that outlines their ceremony if any.
                  > More formal groups may have a ceremony including prayers and
                  > prostrations. If the group meets in a shrine room typically shoes are
                  > removed before entering as a sign of respect. More informal groups may
                  > have a text they are reading as a group followed by a discussion of how
                  > the text relates to each of them. In any respect take advantage of the
                  > offer. Don't allow your uncertainty to keep you from
                  > attending what will probably be a positive experience. I hope this is of
                  > some help.
                  >
                  > May all be at peace.
                  >
                  > John
                  >
                  > If for company you find a wise and prudent friend
                  > who leads a good life,
                  > you should, overcoming all impediments,
                  > keep his company joyously and mindfully.
                  > (The Dhammapada 22:328
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message ----
                  > From: "bjpnest@... <mailto:bjpnest%40aol.com>" <bjpnest@...
                  > <mailto:bjpnest%40aol.com>>
                  >
                  > Dear Friends,
                  > I have been reading this thread with interest. What comes across to me are
                  > writers trying to explain their own beliefs and hoping to mesh or weave
                  > them
                  > into a universality. It will keep going around and around in circles
                  > with no
                  > concrete resolution as each tries to "promote" his or her own case. It is a
                  > good thing that we do not all believe the same way. Having said that,
                  > there are only so many ways we can say the same thing, as I am beginning to
                  > understand these messages. We must agree to disagree since none of us
                  > will ever
                  > be able to positively say, "This is the answer." And is that so bad? I
                  > think, Yes. Because it keeps us embroiled in mini debates that can not
                  > be proved
                  > or disproved. It keeps us from following the path we chose when we joined
                  > this group. It keeps us from living NOW, in this moment. What cannot be
                  > answered with any surety might be better left for a Koan or for our
                  > personal
                  > meditation. I am much more interested in hearing what members have been
                  > through
                  > with the general public or teachers or any experience as it pertains to the
                  > here and now. I also have been sitting solitarily for a long time, but have
                  > been asked if I'd like to join a group that meets for a few hours a week. I
                  > would, but I'm not sure of protocol for entering, talking, manners, etc.
                  > in a
                  > more formal setting. If someone would be able to help me with this, I would
                  > be supremely appreciative.
                  > Bev
                  >
                  >
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                • Jody W. Ianuzzi
                  Last night I was watching the TV show BONES when someone told the story of the arrow. If you are shot with an arrow do you ask who shot you or where the arrow
                  Message 8 of 26 , Oct 2, 2008
                    Last night I was watching the TV show BONES when someone told the story of
                    the arrow. If you are shot with an arrow do you ask who shot you or where
                    the arrow was made or do you remove the arrow. This is a Buddhist story and
                    I was happy to hear it on a TV show. I don't know if the writer knew it's
                    origin but it was col.

                    JODY
                  • bjpnest@aol.com
                    Jody, I saw the same show and heard the same story. I agree that it was nice to hear. It s been one of my favorites. Some stay with you like parables or
                    Message 9 of 26 , Oct 2, 2008
                      Jody,
                      I saw the same show and heard the same story. I agree that it was nice to
                      hear. It's been one of my favorites. Some stay with you like parables or
                      Aesop fables. I also like the one where a monk carries a young woman across
                      some water and his companion cannot stop thinking about it and reprimands the
                      first monk who replies, "I put her down two miles ago, why are you still
                      carrying her?" Or at least it's worded something like that. My other favorite is
                      the one about the blind monk walking home with a lighted candle so that
                      others wouldn't bump into him only to find out after being bumped that his candle
                      has gone out.
                      Bev


                      In a message dated 10/2/2008 11:28:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                      jody@... writes:




                      Last night I was watching the TV show BONES when someone told the story of
                      the arrow. If you are shot with an arrow do you ask who shot you or where
                      the arrow was made or do you remove the arrow. This is a Buddhist story and
                      I was happy to hear it on a TV show. I don't know if the writer knew it's
                      origin but it was col.

                      JODY







                      **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
                      challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
                      calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • bjpnest@aol.com
                      Peace, Brother, I meant no discord. By all means, I am as open to debate as any one else. But, to debate for the sake of debating or to debate the same
                      Message 10 of 26 , Oct 2, 2008
                        Peace, Brother,

                        I meant no discord. By all means, I am as open to debate as any one else.
                        But, to debate for the sake of debating or to debate the same thought over
                        and over with no resolution takes up a great deal of time. Once a point has
                        been made..... I honor your ..."thoughts and direction of travel." For
                        each of us, it may be a different way. If you have learned from your missives,
                        I congratulate you.

                        >("For myself I don't see the error or frustration in sharing ideas and
                        beliefs with others. Surely you don't hold the same beliefs you did as a child.
                        How did those beliefs change and grow, through being challenged by other ideas
                        and beliefs which gave you cause to re-evaluate your position and beliefs. To
                        me this is growth. To me stunted is the person so entrenched in themselves
                        and their beliefs that they see no reason or cause to share them with
                        another.")

                        My friend, there is no error or frustration in sharing ideas and beliefs
                        with others. I share all the time, perhaps too much. But, please help me to
                        understand growth in debating ideas and thoughts that seem to be totally
                        cyclical in nature, sort of like the Celtic serpent swallowing its own tail for
                        eternity. Perhaps I am woefully ignorant in this, but I came away from your
                        thread Knowing that you Believe in a God, Knowing that you believe this quite
                        strongly, Knowing that you do not understand why others do not. And perhaps
                        this is what is at the crux of it for me. I do not believe in a God that
                        watches over the world, an afterlife or afterworld, that whole dogma. Perhaps
                        that is why I see this as never ending. You have your beliefs and I have mine.
                        We must just agree to disagree.

                        Are you implying that Hindus who hold steadfast to their teachings and don't
                        question them don't grow? See, and you thought I couldn't debate or share.
                        I also love to be in connection with other searchers. Now, when you say,
                        "...true teachings of Christ..." I'm not sure if there are any untrue
                        teachings, that it is just the way you worded it, or if you meant that the only true
                        teachings are those of the Christ. Obviously, I don't believe that you do,
                        but I'm glad to see that you stretch yourself by trying to understand other
                        ideas and philosophies.

                        Peace,
                        Bev





                        In a message dated 10/1/2008 8:26:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                        salbecker@... writes:




                        Bev,

                        Very good points. For myself I am really verbalizing thoughts and
                        direction of travel. Looking for feed back and experiences of others.
                        Hopefully an insight I have to offer may be a missing piece in
                        anothers puzzle as I look for those pieces to complete mine. There are
                        many teachers.

                        To the point, this discussion gave me cause to review my recent
                        readings and those past on this subject. For myself I don't see the
                        error or frustration in sharing ideas and beliefs with others. Surely
                        you don't hold the same beliefs you did as a child. How did those
                        beliefs change and grow, through being challenged by other ideas and
                        beliefs which gave you cause to re-evaluate your position and beliefs.
                        To me this is growth. To me stunted is the person so entrenched in
                        themselves and their beliefs that they see no reason or cause to share
                        them with another.

                        Surely Buddha would have never grown had he been so inclined. Surely
                        Buddha a student of the Hindu teachings would not have ventured to
                        grow and develop his beliefs if he had held steadfast to the Hindu
                        teaching and never sought to challenge them.

                        As for meditation being the venue to ask these questions, most
                        assuredly so. My blessings and love to all who truly, or who truly
                        try, to follow that which is there heart. Hopefully it is of a good
                        and pure nature. I would no more wish to change that belief than I
                        would the will of God. But in sharing in respect, no harm and much
                        understanding and good can come of it.

                        My views I guess are more aligned with the true teachings of Christ
                        and the Hindu teachings. I do belief in a Creator and I cannot image a
                        more blessed and beautiful enlightenment that to be fully engrossed in
                        the pure love of that Creator. I do believe there is much to learn
                        from the Buddhist teachings. And most of all, I love being in the
                        presence of such love as the love of the searchers.

                        Namaste and Love

                        Sal

                        --- In _Buddhism_101@Buddhism_101Bud_ (mailto:Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com) ,
                        bjpnest@... wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear Friends,
                        > I have been reading this thread with interest. What comes across to
                        me are
                        > writers trying to explain their own beliefs and hoping to mesh or
                        weave them
                        > into a universality. It will keep going around and around in
                        circles with no
                        > concrete resolution as each tries to "promote" his or her own case.
                        It is a
                        > good thing that we do not all believe the same way. Having said
                        that,
                        > there are only so many ways we can say the same thing, as I am
                        beginning to
                        > understand these messages. We must agree to disagree since none of
                        us will ever
                        > be able to positively say, "This is the answer." And is that so
                        bad? I
                        > think, Yes. Because it keeps us embroiled in mini debates that can
                        not be proved
                        > or disproved. It keeps us from following the path we chose when we
                        joined
                        > this group. It keeps us from living NOW, in this moment. What
                        cannot be
                        > answered with any surety might be better left for a Koan or for our
                        personal
                        > meditation. I am much more interested in hearing what members have
                        been through
                        > with the general public or teachers or any experience as it
                        pertains to the
                        > here and now. I also have been sitting solitarily for a long time,
                        but have
                        > been asked if I'd like to join a group that meets for a few hours a
                        week. I
                        > would, but I'm not sure of protocol for entering, talking, manners,
                        etc. in a
                        > more formal setting. If someone would be able to help me with this,
                        I would
                        > be supremely appreciative.
                        > Bev
                        >
                        >
                        > In a message dated 10/1/2008 5:47:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                        > salbecker@.. salbecker@..
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > John and Rob,
                        >
                        > I truly do not wish to hijack this thread. But....;)
                        >
                        > Having given thought to your words John, and aligning them to my
                        > current readings, I would have to come to the conclusion that Jesus
                        > was not a Buddhist. I would agree he more than likely studied the
                        > teachings of Bhudda.
                        >
                        > But to underlying message of Jesus, I would be more inclined to say
                        > that he aligned himself more with the living in the pure love of God
                        > from the Hindu Beliefs. As I read more of the Hindu teachings and
                        > compare them to the teachings of Christ, I see more purely the Hindu
                        > influence on Jesus.
                        >
                        > I interchange Jesus and Christ here simply as a point of Jesus the man
                        > who achieved enlightenment in the pure love of God and became the
                        Christ.
                        >
                        > I assures you, the Bhudda's, The Hindu Saints, The Christ and the
                        > Christ like Saints of Christianity as well as the holy men all the
                        > peoples of the world conspire to see man achieve enlightenment.
                        >
                        > Namaste and Peace to All
                        >
                        > Sal
                        >
                        > --- In _Buddhism_101@ --- In --- In
                        (mailto:_Buddhism_101@Buddhism_101Bud_ (mailto:Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com)
                        ) ,
                        > John Pellecchia <pellejf@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Good morning Sal,
                        > >
                        > > I'm sure there are many sites on the Internet that misrepresent the
                        > concept of Buddhism especially that of Maitreya, Buddha, and Jesus. In
                        > fact on one such site they purport that Mohammed is really the
                        > expected Maitreya.
                        > >
                        > > > "...then to what purpose is the belief of reincarnation. Is not
                        > the purpose of the reincarnation to learn that which one needs to
                        > obtain perfection. How is one to do so without the history of the past
                        > and the promise of the future.
                        > >
                        > > "If there is no creator, then to what end of it all. Is it not the
                        > promise of being in the eternal presence of Gods Love which the soul
                        > follows and draws wisdom and strength from. For if there is nothing
                        > else once one has achieved perfection, then the promise of
                        > reincarnation would only lead one to not learn his or her lesson, not
                        > achieve perfection to gaurantee immortality. (I do love this debate
                        > simply that it is an exercise in spirituality on its most provoked
                        > level. I will respect your wishes and bait you no further.)"
                        > >
                        > > Just remember that I am not a Lama or monk. I have no empowerments
                        > so much of what I am writing please take with that understanding.
                        > >
                        > > As to a Supreme Being this is another contested belief among some
                        > Buddhists. This is one of the ten unanswered questions of the Buddha
                        > and I believe I wrote on this subject earlier. You may wish to read
                        > the following from "Good Question, Good Answer" by the Venerable
                        > Shravasti Dhammika at __http://www.buddhanehttp://www.http://wwwhttp://w_
                        (http://www.buddhanehttp://www.buddhhttp://wwhtt_)
                        > (_http://www.buddhanehttp://www.buddhhttp://wwhtt_
                        (http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda03.htm) ) .
                        > >
                        > > Your statement, however, (at least to my understanding) presupposes
                        > that there is a permanent "soul" or atman. In Buddhism there is no
                        > such concept of soul but rather of non-soul (anatman) since no "thing"
                        > is permanent. The concept of "reincarnation" is a Hindu belief; that
                        > there is an eternal self (atman) that migrates from body to body prior
                        > to birth. Buddhists believe in "rebirth" although some use the two
                        > terms (reincarnation and rebirth) interchangeably. Upon attaining
                        > Nirvana one transcends the act of rebirth and ends the cycle of
                        > rebirth. No immortality. No living in some heavenly state of
                        > unspeakable bliss. No suffering. No rebirth. So, what is reborn until
                        > that state is achieved? In my understanding it is "consciousness" but
                        > it is clouded by our belief in "ego" or "self". We each have
                        > Buddha-nature as our natural state that is clouded by Samsara. We just
                        > have to awaken to make that realization. That is the reason we
                        > meditate, practice, and study.
                        > >
                        > > Have a great day.
                        > >
                        > > May all be at peace.
                        > >
                        > > John
                        > >
                        > > Impermanent are all compounded things.
                        > > When one perceives this with true insight,
                        > > then one becomes detached from suffering;
                        > > this is the path of purification.
                        > > (Dhammapada 20.277)
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ----- Original Message ----
                        > > From: Sal_ B <salbecker@.sa>
                        > >
                        > > John a Blessed Morning to you,
                        > >
                        > > Sorely misworded I apologize for the wording and making up the word
                        > > misworded. I was truly asking the question as to the claim that
                        Buddha
                        > > foretold the coming of Christ as it is something I heard sometime
                        back
                        > > and do not remember the source.
                        > >
                        > > If in Buddhism there is not to be any thought or concentration to the
                        > > past or the future, the "NOW" being the focus, then to what
                        purpose is
                        > > the belief of reincarnation. Is not the purpose of the reincarnation
                        > > to learn that which one needs to obtain perfection. How is one to do
                        > > so without the history of the past and the promise of the future.
                        > >
                        > > If there is no creator, then to what end of it all. Is it not the
                        > > promise of being in the eternal presence of Gods Love which the soul
                        > > follows and draws wisdom and strength from. For if there is nothing
                        > > else once one has achieved perfection, then the promise of
                        > > reincarnation would only lead one to not learn his or her lesson, not
                        > > achieve perfection to gaurantee immortality. (I do love this debate
                        > > simply that it is an exercise in spirituality on its most provoked
                        > > level. I will respect your wishes and bait you no further.)
                        > >
                        > > I ask these questions and share my understanding as they are this
                        > > point in my learning, in the spirit of learning, I thank you for you
                        > > responses and those of the others.
                        > >
                        > > Namaste
                        > >
                        > > Sal
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ************ ************<WBR>**Looking for simple solutions to your real-l
                        > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and
                        information, tips and
                        > calculators. (_http://www.walletpohttp://www.whttp://www.wallehttp_
                        (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001) )
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >







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                      • Jody W. Ianuzzi
                        Hello Bev, Yes, I like the one about the monks that carried the woman too. I hadn t heard the one about the blind monk, I especially like that one. I am
                        Message 11 of 26 , Oct 2, 2008
                          Hello Bev,

                          Yes, I like the one about the monks that carried the woman too. I hadn't
                          heard the one about the blind monk, I especially like that one. I am blind
                          and when I use a white cane I carry a flashlight too so others will see me.
                          but that is so I won't get hit by a car. ....... Now I use a guide dog.
                          <GRIN>

                          JODY
                        • Jody W. Ianuzzi
                          Hi Bev, I was think about the blind monk story.....I will go check the batteries in my flashlight.... JODY
                          Message 12 of 26 , Oct 2, 2008
                            Hi Bev,

                            I was think about the blind monk story.....I will go check the batteries in
                            my flashlight....<GRIN>

                            JODY
                          • bjpnest@aol.com
                            Jody, If it s not too intrusive, may I ask how you are reading emails and answering them? The reason I ask is that I do a three hour radio show each Friday
                            Message 13 of 26 , Oct 2, 2008
                              Jody,
                              If it's not too intrusive, may I ask how you are reading emails and
                              answering them? The reason I ask is that I do a three hour radio show each Friday
                              morning for the blind and print impaired. One of the things I'm often asked is
                              how can I access computers and the internet without paying a lot, and what
                              kind of software do I need? My hat is off to you, my dear. Kudus to you for
                              your wit and for not being a reclusive as so many of my listeners are.
                              Bev


                              In a message dated 10/2/2008 5:55:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                              jody@... writes:




                              Hello Bev,

                              Yes, I like the one about the monks that carried the woman too. I hadn't
                              heard the one about the blind monk, I especially like that one. I am blind
                              and when I use a white cane I carry a flashlight too so others will see me.
                              but that is so I won't get hit by a car. ....... Now I use a guide dog.
                              <GRIN>

                              JODY







                              **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
                              challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
                              calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Jody W. Ianuzzi
                              Hello Bev, I use a screen reader to read my computer screen. The one I use is Window eyes from GW Micro. I am able to navigate all over the screen and I can
                              Message 14 of 26 , Oct 2, 2008
                                Hello Bev,

                                I use a screen reader to read my computer screen. The one I use is Window
                                eyes from GW Micro. I am able to navigate all over the screen and I can
                                adjust speed and other features.

                                The two main screen readers are Window eyes and JAWS (I used JAWS for ten
                                years but I don't like it or the company that makes it) These are pricy
                                programs but GW Micro offers a payment plan of $39 a month which makes it
                                affordable.

                                There are less expensive screen readers on the market like Freedom Box and
                                ORCA but they don't have all the features of WE and JAWS.

                                I have very limited vision (like looking through wax paper) so I have also
                                changed my screen colors to large yellow letters on a black background.

                                I am not able to read print so my Buddhist reading is limited to what is on
                                the internet and Talking Books and other audio books. There are actually a
                                lot of books available by the Dalai Lama, Jeffrey Hopkins and Robert Thurman
                                on tape.

                                I have been blind my whole life so I have had lots of time to adjust. The
                                only thing that makes me at all reclusive is that i don't drive. I lived in
                                a small New England town where I could walk every where but then we moved to
                                a town in south Florida with no public transportation. It has been a big
                                adjustment.

                                Where are you and what is your radio show? Can we hear it online in
                                streaming audio?

                                Oh, don't hesitate to ask me anything about my vision, I have no problems
                                with it at all.

                                JODY
                              • ken
                                Bev and Jodi and others, On our website I put a link to several audio files which are lectures given by HH the Dalai Lama. See the Links section under
                                Message 15 of 26 , Oct 3, 2008
                                  Bev and Jodi and others,

                                  On our website I put a link to several audio files which are lectures
                                  given by HH the Dalai Lama. See the "Links" section under "Introductory
                                  Information or just go to this URL:

                                  <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Buddhism_101/links/_Introductory_information_001219568059/>

                                  Enjoy,
                                  ken
                                • bjpnest@aol.com
                                  Thank you so much, Ken. In a message dated 10/3/2008 5:53:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gebser@mousecar.com writes: Bev and Jodi and others, On our website I
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Oct 3, 2008
                                    Thank you so much, Ken.


                                    In a message dated 10/3/2008 5:53:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                    gebser@... writes:




                                    Bev and Jodi and others,

                                    On our website I put a link to several audio files which are lectures
                                    given by HH the Dalai Lama. See the "Links" section under "Introductory
                                    Information or just go to this URL:

                                    <_http://groups.http://grohttp://groups.http://grohttp://groups.http://groupht
                                    tp://groups_
                                    (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Buddhism_101/links/_Introductory_information_001219568059/) >

                                    Enjoy,
                                    ken







                                    **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
                                    challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
                                    calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • bjpnest@aol.com
                                    Ken and everyone, I just want to let you know that Jody and I are talking about this off site because we realize that it s not a site interest, but if anyone
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Oct 3, 2008
                                      Ken and everyone,
                                      I just want to let you know that Jody and I are talking about this off site
                                      because we realize that it's not a site interest, but if anyone would like
                                      more info, I'd be happy to talk with you.
                                      Bev


                                      In a message dated 10/3/2008 5:53:12 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                      gebser@... writes:




                                      Bev and Jodi and others,

                                      On our website I put a link to several audio files which are lectures
                                      given by HH the Dalai Lama. See the "Links" section under "Introductory
                                      Information or just go to this URL:

                                      <_http://groups.http://grohttp://groups.http://grohttp://groups.http://groupht
                                      tp://groups_
                                      (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Buddhism_101/links/_Introductory_information_001219568059/) >

                                      Enjoy,
                                      ken







                                      **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
                                      challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
                                      calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Jody W. Ianuzzi
                                      Hello Ken, Thank you so much! I really appreciate it! JODY
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Oct 3, 2008
                                        Hello Ken,

                                        Thank you so much! I really appreciate it!

                                        JODY
                                      • ken
                                        Sure thing, Jody! Actually, I thought I announced those mp3 files to this group before, a long time ago. Maybe not. If I didn t say it before, I would
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Oct 3, 2008
                                          Sure thing, Jody! Actually, I thought I announced those mp3 files to
                                          this group before, a long time ago. Maybe not.

                                          If I didn't say it before, I would cordially invite anyone and everyone
                                          to post good buddhist-related links and files to our website.

                                          Karma is just another way of saying, helping others is helping yourself.

                                          On 10/03/2008 10:20 AM Jody W. Ianuzzi wrote:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Hello Ken,
                                          >
                                          > Thank you so much! I really appreciate it!
                                          >
                                          > JODY
                                        • Lauren Merryfield
                                          Hi, Thanks for these! Lauren ... From: ken To: Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:52 AM Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Screen readers
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Oct 4, 2008
                                            Hi,
                                            Thanks for these!
                                            Lauren
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: ken
                                            To: Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:52 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Screen readers etc.


                                            Bev and Jodi and others,

                                            On our website I put a link to several audio files which are lectures
                                            given by HH the Dalai Lama. See the "Links" section under "Introductory
                                            Information or just go to this URL:

                                            <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Buddhism_101/links/_Introductory_information_001219568059/>

                                            Enjoy,
                                            ken






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