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Mixing religions....

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  • LCsDove@aol.com
    Hello I am new to the list. I have been interested in Buddhism for many years and have found the time to really buckle down and study and practice. I went to
    Message 1 of 26 , Aug 7, 2006
      Hello I am new to the list. I have been interested in Buddhism for many
      years and have found the time to really buckle down and study and practice. I
      went to my first Tibetan Buddhist meditation session this past saturday. I can't
      put into words the experience. I just know I want to continue. It feels very
      right.

      I am torn though. I have practicing a Pagan path for 14 years. I have had a
      discussion recently about if Buddhism is compatible with Paganism and I saw
      this on another list i am on. I would appreciate any insight into this. Can
      Buddhism be practiced along side Pagan ways??

      Thanks in Advanced

      Jeanette


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Sean Lukens
      Dear Jeanette, Do you have any indications based on your experience that paganism and Buddhism might not jive? Sean P.S. I recently enjoyed Lughnasadhi
      Message 2 of 26 , Aug 7, 2006
        Dear Jeanette,

        Do you have any indications based on your experience that paganism and Buddhism might not jive?

        Sean

        P.S.

        I recently enjoyed Lughnasadhi festivities and am looking forward to the Buddhist Bon Festival :-)

        ----- Original Message ----
        LCsDove@... wrote: Can Buddhism be practiced along side Pagan ways??










        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John Pellecchia
        Jeanette, You ve posed a most interesting question. Many people who practice what I will refer to a traditional Western religions would consider Buddihism to
        Message 3 of 26 , Aug 7, 2006
          Jeanette,

          You've posed a most interesting question. Many people who practice
          what I will refer to a "traditional Western religions" would consider
          Buddihism to be "pagan" based on the iconology -- especially in
          Tibetan Buddhism.

          As I see it, each of the dieties in Buddhism represent an ideal to
          strive for -- Avaloketeshvara/Chenrezig, Green Tara (Quan-Yin in
          Chinese Buddhism) all represent an ideal to which we are to strive --
          namely total compassion for others. We do not worship them as much as
          we honor and respect the deal each represents.

          The food offerings, candles, water offerings, incense, etc. we place
          in front of them is not for them to physically partake in. They are
          not offerings in the traditional sense. Rather, they symbolically
          represent inner offerings we offer to others.

          There is a beautiful writing entitled "Bodhidharma's Discourse on Pure
          Meditation" in which he reveals the real essence of each of the
          offerings/symbols on a Buddhist "Special Place Of Tranquilty" as I
          call what others refer to as an "altar."

          For example, "As to 'burning incense', again, it is not worldly
          physical incense; rather it is the transcendent Incense of the True
          Teaching which perfumes one's foul-smelling evil deeds, thoroughly
          fumigating them until they vanish." He goes though each offering
          presented in front of a rupa of the Buddha and explains its real meaning.

          The Buddha, in fact, was very much wary of anything which resembled
          worshiping icons. He cautioned his disciples against making images of
          himself for fear they would be worshipped. In fact, we do not worship
          the Buddham but honor Him. His image is honored in much the same way
          we would honor a photograph of a favorite relative. Looking at it
          brings back fond memories to contemplate and emulate.

          As far as "mixing" beliefs -- well that becomes problematic.
          Generally, it will confuse the practioner. Buddhism does not seek
          converts. Actually, it is wrong to proselytize in Buddhism. A buddhist
          will, rather, invite one to "come and see." The idea is to let the
          person questioning to see if Buddhism offers what he/she is seeking.

          Actually, H.H. the Dalai Lama recently urged Christians (and I would
          imagine what you consider pagans) not to convert to Buddhism. Instead,
          he urged others to embrace the teachings of compassion and peace that
          can be found in their own religious traditions.

          "All major religions carry the same messages. Messages of love,
          compassion, forgiveness, tolerance, contentment and
          self-discipline....All have these same values."

          Jeanette, I'm not sure if I answered your question but, I hope, I gave
          you some things to reflect upon.

          May all be at peace.

          John
        • LCsDove@aol.com
          In a message dated 8/7/2006 8:47:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, seanlukens@yahoo.com writes: Dear Jeanette, Do you have any indications based on your
          Message 4 of 26 , Aug 7, 2006
            In a message dated 8/7/2006 8:47:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
            seanlukens@... writes:

            Dear Jeanette,

            Do you have any indications based on your experience that paganism and
            Buddhism might not jive?

            Sean

            P.S.

            I recently enjoyed Lughnasadhi festivities and am looking forward to the
            Buddhist Bon Festival :-)


            Well the person I was conversing with said that Siddhartha forbade the monks
            to practice any kind of ritual magic. The follow verse is what this person
            pointed out to me....

            "Let him not apply himself to practising (the hymns of) the
            Âthabbana(-veda), to (the interpretation of) sleep and signs, nor to astrology; let not (my)
            follower (mâmaka) devote himself to (interpreting) the cry of birds, to
            causing impregnation, nor to (the art of) medicine. (927)"

            This just has me concerned because I have studied astrology for many many
            years as well. Also the person i was speaking too states that certain types of
            Pagan practices can't mesh with Buddhism such as what is labeled as "chaos"
            magic because this can use "negative" forces to attain an end. This to me
            defeats the purpose of balance that Buddha teaches.....

            Thanks
            Jeanette


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • LCsDove@aol.com
            In a message dated 8/7/2006 9:54:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pellejf@yahoo.com writes: Jeanette, You ve posed a most interesting question. Many people who
            Message 5 of 26 , Aug 7, 2006
              In a message dated 8/7/2006 9:54:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
              pellejf@... writes:

              Jeanette,

              You've posed a most interesting question. Many people who practice
              what I will refer to a "traditional Western religions" would consider
              Buddihism to be "pagan" based on the iconology -- especially in
              Tibetan Buddhism.

              Thank you for replying, John. Yes by most Christian definitions, Buddhism is
              Pagan because any religion other then Christian, Judaism, Muslim and Islam is
              clumped into the "Pagan" label. Tibetan Buddhism is the branch of the
              monastery that I went to Saturday and seems to be drawing me in. In my opinion I
              think it would be easy for me to practice both on a parallel level because I
              have learned through practice not to "mix" pantheons of Gods anyways. I don't
              think it would be feasible for me to ask Isis and Buddha to witness my rites
              LOL That would be too weird.


              As I see it, each of the dieties in Buddhism represent an ideal to
              strive for -- Avaloketeshvara/strive for -- Avaloketeshvara/
              Chinese Buddhism) all represent an ideal to which we are to strive --
              namely total compassion for others. We do not worship them as much as
              we honor and respect the deal each represents.
              That is what I do with the Pagan Gods I honor. I don't worship, I honor
              them. Many people (and this isn't directed directly at you, John) think Pagans
              are "idol" worshippers. We aren't. We honor what the Deity represents not
              worship the statue before us.



              The food offerings, candles, water offerings, incense, etc. we place
              in front of them is not for them to physically partake in. They are
              not offerings in the traditional sense. Rather, they symbolically
              represent inner offerings we offer to others.

              I understand this as well. The offerings made in most Pagan rituals are
              directly to the Gods.


              There is a beautiful writing entitled "Bodhidharma'There is a beautiful wr
              Meditation" in which he reveals the real essence of each of the
              offerings/symbols on a Buddhist "Special Place Of Tranquilty" as I
              call what others refer to as an "altar."

              Is this a book by itself or part of another text?


              For example, "As to 'burning incense', again, it is not worldly
              physical incense; rather it is the transcendent Incense of the True
              Teaching which perfumes one's foul-smelling evil deeds, thoroughly
              fumigating them until they vanish." He goes though each offering
              presented in front of a rupa of the Buddha and explains its real meaning.

              Wow I think that may help me as well.


              The Buddha, in fact, was very much wary of anything which resembled
              worshiping icons. He cautioned his disciples against making images of
              himself for fear they would be worshipped. In fact, we do not worship
              the Buddham but honor Him. His image is honored in much the same way
              we would honor a photograph of a favorite relative. Looking at it
              brings back fond memories to contemplate and emulate.

              Again, I understand this as in Paganism we don't worship a God or idol or
              icon. We honor the Gods represented. Many people new to Paganism have a hard
              time grasping that idea because most come from a traditional Christian
              background and are taught Pagans or anyone who isn't Christian worship idols and
              statues.


              As far as "mixing" beliefs -- well that becomes problematic.
              Generally, it will confuse the practioner. Buddhism does not seek
              converts. Actually, it is wrong to proselytize in Buddhism. A buddhist
              will, rather, invite one to "come and see." The idea is to let the
              person questioning to see if Buddhism offers what he/she is seeking.

              I may be wrong but I think Christians are really the only group that
              proselytize. I have never been accosted by a Pagan, a Buddhist, a Hindu, etc. When I
              went to the open house at the monastary, I had to be the one to approach the
              monks, they didn't really go up and talk to anyone unless they already were
              familiar with the person. The ones I spoke to were very nice and warm. I was
              invited to the meditation by one of them. He said that would be my true test
              to see if I would be on the right path with Buddhism. He said "if you can
              sit still, clear your mind for a good deal of the time, you will be in the
              right space" Again I can't explain in words what I felt during the meditation. I
              have never felt that way before.


              Actually, H.H. the Dalai Lama recently urged Christians (and I would
              imagine what you consider pagans) not to convert to Buddhism. Instead,
              he urged others to embrace the teachings of compassion and peace that
              can be found in their own religious traditions.

              "All major religions carry the same messages. Messages of love,
              compassion, forgiveness, tolerance, contentment and
              self-discipline.self-discipline.<WBR>...All have

              Jeanette, I'm not sure if I answered your question but, I hope, I gave
              you some things to reflect upon.

              May all be at peace.

              John

              Yes you did help me think about things. I appreciate it! I wonder if it
              would be ok to approach one of the monks with this question.....

              Jeanette


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • nancy lemke
              i really feel that all religions have a bottom line.......love! i feel buddhism is a way of life though. namaste, nan ... consider ... strive -- ... as ...
              Message 6 of 26 , Aug 8, 2006
                i really feel that all religions have a bottom line.......love! i
                feel buddhism is a way of life though. namaste, nan

                --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, "John Pellecchia" <pellejf@...>
                wrote:
                >
                >
                > Jeanette,
                >
                > You've posed a most interesting question. Many people who practice
                > what I will refer to a "traditional Western religions" would
                consider
                > Buddihism to be "pagan" based on the iconology -- especially in
                > Tibetan Buddhism.
                >
                > As I see it, each of the dieties in Buddhism represent an ideal to
                > strive for -- Avaloketeshvara/Chenrezig, Green Tara (Quan-Yin in
                > Chinese Buddhism) all represent an ideal to which we are to
                strive --
                > namely total compassion for others. We do not worship them as much
                as
                > we honor and respect the deal each represents.
                >
                > The food offerings, candles, water offerings, incense, etc. we
                place
                > in front of them is not for them to physically partake in. They are
                > not offerings in the traditional sense. Rather, they symbolically
                > represent inner offerings we offer to others.
                >
                > There is a beautiful writing entitled "Bodhidharma's Discourse on
                Pure
                > Meditation" in which he reveals the real essence of each of the
                > offerings/symbols on a Buddhist "Special Place Of Tranquilty" as I
                > call what others refer to as an "altar."
                >
                > For example, "As to 'burning incense', again, it is not worldly
                > physical incense; rather it is the transcendent Incense of the True
                > Teaching which perfumes one's foul-smelling evil deeds, thoroughly
                > fumigating them until they vanish." He goes though each offering
                > presented in front of a rupa of the Buddha and explains its real
                meaning.
                >
                > The Buddha, in fact, was very much wary of anything which resembled
                > worshiping icons. He cautioned his disciples against making images
                of
                > himself for fear they would be worshipped. In fact, we do not
                worship
                > the Buddham but honor Him. His image is honored in much the same
                way
                > we would honor a photograph of a favorite relative. Looking at it
                > brings back fond memories to contemplate and emulate.
                >
                > As far as "mixing" beliefs -- well that becomes problematic.
                > Generally, it will confuse the practioner. Buddhism does not seek
                > converts. Actually, it is wrong to proselytize in Buddhism. A
                buddhist
                > will, rather, invite one to "come and see." The idea is to let the
                > person questioning to see if Buddhism offers what he/she is
                seeking.
                >
                > Actually, H.H. the Dalai Lama recently urged Christians (and I
                would
                > imagine what you consider pagans) not to convert to Buddhism.
                Instead,
                > he urged others to embrace the teachings of compassion and peace
                that
                > can be found in their own religious traditions.
                >
                > "All major religions carry the same messages. Messages of love,
                > compassion, forgiveness, tolerance, contentment and
                > self-discipline....All have these same values."
                >
                > Jeanette, I'm not sure if I answered your question but, I hope, I
                gave
                > you some things to reflect upon.
                >
                > May all be at peace.
                >
                > John
                >
              • John Pellecchia
                ... Nan, You re absolutely correct in stating that Buddhism is a way of life. It s a belief structure which has been called a philosophy, religion, ... you
                Message 7 of 26 , Aug 8, 2006
                  --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, "nancy lemke" <richardlemke@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > i really feel that all religions have a bottom line.......love! i
                  > feel buddhism is a way of life though. namaste, nan

                  Nan,

                  You're absolutely correct in stating that "Buddhism is a way of life."
                  It's a belief structure which has been called a philosophy, religion,
                  ... you name it. It fits into a very unusual category that defies
                  being categorized. But, for the sake of argument, I labeled it a
                  "religion" in the most secular meaning of the word since it is
                  followed by many in much the same way others would a "traditional"
                  religion.

                  True that the bottom line of all religions is love. At the same time,
                  all of the traditional religions also profess to be a "way of life."
                  Unfortunately, I don't think the majority of their "practitioners"
                  truly practice the tenets espoused by their faith -- they're not a
                  "way of life" that is generally followed except only for the hour or
                  so of the service -- if at all.

                  Interesting how something so basic, so peaceful can be so confusing.

                  May all be at peace.

                  John
                • John Pellecchia
                  Jeanette, The text Bodhidharma s Discourse on Pure Meditation is a selection in a book entitled Buddhist Writings on Meditation and Daily Practice: The
                  Message 8 of 26 , Aug 9, 2006
                    Jeanette,

                    The text "Bodhidharma's Discourse on Pure Meditation" is a selection
                    in a book entitled "Buddhist Writings on Meditation and Daily
                    Practice: The Serene Reflection Meditation Tradition" -- a long title
                    for a small book. The short title is simply "Buddhist Writings." I
                    believe it is still available online from the niche publisher Shasta
                    Abbey Press. If you have difficulty locating them on the net, let me know.

                    Regarding the comment "I think Christians are really the only group
                    that proselytize" -- that may be somewhat true today. Historically,
                    however, all religions have proselytized. Many of this proselytizing
                    was done at the point of a sword; i.e., "convert or die." Anyway, I
                    cannot speak from authority regarding the present but I think
                    worldwide there is much more subtle proselytizing today than we
                    realize or care to admit.

                    Just an aside: I always found it interesting how "people of faith"
                    (whichever faith that may be) have practiced (and continue to
                    practice) such brutality in the name of their faith against their
                    fellow man.

                    Jeanette, you are most fortunate that you have a monastery close by
                    that you can attend. Personally, I have never attended a Buddhist
                    ceremony or teaching so I am envious of anyone who can do so.
                    Certainly, if you feel comfortable in approaching a monk with your
                    question, you should. I'd be interested in knowing the result.

                    I wish you the very best on your journey.

                    May all be at peace.

                    John
                  • nancy lemke
                    yes, may all be at peace! i left conventional religion for this way of life because it lasts 24/7 and not just for the service . i know what you mean. i
                    Message 9 of 26 , Aug 9, 2006
                      yes, may all be at peace! i left conventional religion for
                      this "way of life" because it lasts 24/7 and not just for
                      the "service". i know what you mean. i love being a buddhist as it
                      has opened so much to me that i can explore and i love life so much
                      more now. namaste, nan

                      --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, "John Pellecchia" <pellejf@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, "nancy lemke" <richardlemke@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > i really feel that all religions have a bottom line.......love!
                      i
                      > > feel buddhism is a way of life though. namaste, nan
                      >
                      > Nan,
                      >
                      > You're absolutely correct in stating that "Buddhism is a way of
                      life."
                      > It's a belief structure which has been called a philosophy,
                      religion,
                      > ... you name it. It fits into a very unusual category that defies
                      > being categorized. But, for the sake of argument, I labeled it a
                      > "religion" in the most secular meaning of the word since it is
                      > followed by many in much the same way others would a "traditional"
                      > religion.
                      >
                      > True that the bottom line of all religions is love. At the same
                      time,
                      > all of the traditional religions also profess to be a "way of
                      life."
                      > Unfortunately, I don't think the majority of their "practitioners"
                      > truly practice the tenets espoused by their faith -- they're not a
                      > "way of life" that is generally followed except only for the hour
                      or
                      > so of the service -- if at all.
                      >
                      > Interesting how something so basic, so peaceful can be so
                      confusing.
                      >
                      > May all be at peace.
                      >
                      > John
                      >
                    • Ken/
                      I beleive the purpose of, the Buddha, forbidding these practices was because they were/are a waste of time that should be, more appropriatly, used in
                      Message 10 of 26 , Aug 10, 2006
                        I beleive the purpose of, the Buddha, forbidding these
                        practices was because they were/are a waste of time
                        that should be, more appropriatly, used in meditation
                        and the study/practice of the Dharma. They have
                        nothing to do with the path to enlightenment. Don't
                        forget, these people were monks and under much
                        stricter rules than lay persons. Some of the more
                        useful, of these practices (medicine), are necessary
                        for modern survival. Some are, imho, still a waste of
                        time better used for the above.

                        Ken/

                        >
                        > Well the person I was conversing with said that
                        > Siddhartha forbade the monks
                        > to practice any kind of ritual magic. The follow
                        > verse is what this person
                        > pointed out to me....
                        >
                        > "Let him not apply himself to practising (the hymns
                        > of) the
                        > Âthabbana(-veda), to (the interpretation of) sleep
                        > and signs, nor to astrology; let not (my)
                        > follower (mâmaka) devote himself to (interpreting)
                        > the cry of birds, to
                        > causing impregnation, nor to (the art of) medicine.
                        > (927)"
                        >
                        > This just has me concerned because I have studied
                        > astrology for many many
                        > years as well. Also the person i was speaking too
                        > states that certain types of
                        > Pagan practices can't mesh with Buddhism such as
                        > what is labeled as "chaos"
                        > magic because this can use "negative" forces to
                        > attain an end. This to me
                        > defeats the purpose of balance that Buddha
                        > teaches.....


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                      • ken
                        This is very curious to me for a couple reasons. One reason is that, even for buddhists, it s permissible to defend oneself and others or at least to protect
                        Message 11 of 26 , Aug 10, 2006
                          This is very curious to me for a couple reasons.

                          One reason is that, even for buddhists, it's permissible to defend
                          oneself and others or at least to protect oneself and others or at very
                          least to avoid hazards. If a boulder is rolling down a hill at you, I
                          would think it would be fine to jump out of the way. If caught in a
                          flood or riptide, it's permissible to extricate oneself. In order to
                          defend or protect from or avoid hazards, it's necessary to understand
                          those hazards. While we don't have to study boulders to understand that
                          we can jump out of the way, when magic is practiced against us or
                          others, there is a necessity to understand it in order to be able to
                          avoid or extricate ourselves from it.

                          BTW, what is the "(927)" after the quote (below) refer to?


                          Regards,
                          (the other) ken


                          Ken/ wrote:
                          > I beleive the purpose of, the Buddha, forbidding these
                          > practices was because they were/are a waste of time
                          > that should be, more appropriatly, used in meditation
                          > and the study/practice of the Dharma. They have
                          > nothing to do with the path to enlightenment. Don't
                          > forget, these people were monks and under much
                          > stricter rules than lay persons. Some of the more
                          > useful, of these practices (medicine), are necessary
                          > for modern survival. Some are, imho, still a waste of
                          > time better used for the above.
                          >
                          > Ken/
                          >
                          >> Well the person I was conversing with said that
                          >> Siddhartha forbade the monks
                          >> to practice any kind of ritual magic. The follow
                          >> verse is what this person
                          >> pointed out to me....
                          >>
                          >> "Let him not apply himself to practising (the hymns
                          >> of) the
                          >> Âthabbana(-veda), to (the interpretation of) sleep
                          >> and signs, nor to astrology; let not (my)
                          >> follower (mâmaka) devote himself to (interpreting)
                          >> the cry of birds, to
                          >> causing impregnation, nor to (the art of) medicine.
                          >> (927)"
                          >>
                          >> This just has me concerned because I have studied
                          >> astrology for many many
                          >> years as well. Also the person i was speaking too
                          >> states that certain types of
                          >> Pagan practices can't mesh with Buddhism such as
                          >> what is labeled as "chaos"
                          >> magic because this can use "negative" forces to
                          >> attain an end. This to me
                          >> defeats the purpose of balance that Buddha
                          >> teaches.....
                        • Ellis Nelson
                          I can t claim to be an expert on the subject, but this discussion about magic is curious. Tantra is all about magic. Now we could argue about one kind of magic
                          Message 12 of 26 , Aug 10, 2006
                            I can't claim to be an expert on the subject, but this discussion about magic is curious. Tantra is all about magic. Now we could argue about one kind of magic over another- but Tibetan Buddhism is steeped in magical practices. One book that sums up a lot of it for Westerners is Occult Tibet by JH Brennan (Llewellyn 2002), a fascinating read. Also, I'm reading In Exile From the Land of Snows by John Avedon who devotes a chapter to the State Oracle of Tibet. For centuries, the Tibetans have looked to this official state medium to channel prophesy. Astrology is also an important tool for Tibetans. Sounds a little new age doesn't it, but it's centuries old.





                            ken <gebser@...> wrote:

                            This is very curious to me for a couple reasons.

                            One reason is that, even for buddhists, it's permissible to defend
                            oneself and others or at least to protect oneself and others or at very
                            least to avoid hazards. If a boulder is rolling down a hill at you, I
                            would think it would be fine to jump out of the way. If caught in a
                            flood or riptide, it's permissible to extricate oneself. In order to
                            defend or protect from or avoid hazards, it's necessary to understand
                            those hazards. While we don't have to study boulders to understand that
                            we can jump out of the way, when magic is practiced against us or
                            others, there is a necessity to understand it in order to be able to
                            avoid or extricate ourselves from it.

                            BTW, what is the "(927)" after the quote (below) refer to?

                            Regards,
                            (the other) ken

                            Ken/ wrote:
                            > I beleive the purpose of, the Buddha, forbidding these
                            > practices was because they were/are a waste of time
                            > that should be, more appropriatly, used in meditation
                            > and the study/practice of the Dharma. They have
                            > nothing to do with the path to enlightenment. Don't
                            > forget, these people were monks and under much
                            > stricter rules than lay persons. Some of the more
                            > useful, of these practices (medicine), are necessary
                            > for modern survival. Some are, imho, still a waste of
                            > time better used for the above.
                            >
                            > Ken/
                            >
                            >> Well the person I was conversing with said that
                            >> Siddhartha forbade the monks
                            >> to practice any kind of ritual magic. The follow
                            >> verse is what this person
                            >> pointed out to me....
                            >>
                            >> "Let him not apply himself to practising (the hymns
                            >> of) the
                            >> Âthabbana(-veda), to (the interpretation of) sleep
                            >> and signs, nor to astrology; let not (my)
                            >> follower (mâmaka) devote himself to (interpreting)
                            >> the cry of birds, to
                            >> causing impregnation, nor to (the art of) medicine.
                            >> (927)"
                            >>
                            >> This just has me concerned because I have studied
                            >> astrology for many many
                            >> years as well. Also the person i was speaking too
                            >> states that certain types of
                            >> Pagan practices can't mesh with Buddhism such as
                            >> what is labeled as "chaos"
                            >> magic because this can use "negative" forces to
                            >> attain an end. This to me
                            >> defeats the purpose of balance that Buddha
                            >> teaches.....






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                          • ja_rickey
                            ... many ... practice. I ... saturday. I can t ... feels very ... have had a ... and I saw ... this. Can ... Jeanette, I have been a loosely practicing
                            Message 13 of 26 , Aug 10, 2006
                              --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, LCsDove@... wrote:
                              >
                              > Hello I am new to the list. I have been interested in Buddhism for
                              many
                              > years and have found the time to really buckle down and study and
                              practice. I
                              > went to my first Tibetan Buddhist meditation session this past
                              saturday. I can't
                              > put into words the experience. I just know I want to continue. It
                              feels very
                              > right.
                              >
                              > I am torn though. I have practicing a Pagan path for 14 years. I
                              have had a
                              > discussion recently about if Buddhism is compatible with Paganism
                              and I saw
                              > this on another list i am on. I would appreciate any insight into
                              this. Can
                              > Buddhism be practiced along side Pagan ways??
                              > Thanks in Advanced
                              >
                              > Jeanette
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >


                              Jeanette,

                              I have been a "loosely" practicing Buddhist for about 1 year,
                              inasmuch as I have never really explored the doctrines and teachings
                              of Tibetan Buddhism until recently. I can understand your feelings
                              about how it felt right, because I experienced the same feelings
                              myself- only I felt that as I was reading the book The Art of
                              Happiness. It just fit and made sense.

                              I have always believed that every religion holds the same desire to
                              reach the same ultimate destination. The difference is only in two
                              areas- what we call the end destination and the path we choose to
                              arrive. Each religion is a different way to reach that end
                              destination. For some, paganism is a much easier path than Islam or
                              Judiasm as much as riding a bike is an easier trek on a flat road as
                              opposed to going through a jungle.

                              As to your question regarding whether or not paganism can be
                              practiced alongside Buddhist traditions, I feel that I am not
                              experienced or well versed enough to answer that question. However,
                              I can tell you that my fiancee is a practicing pagan. I do support
                              her in her spitirual path, and find much common ground regarding
                              beliefs and traditions. We just differ on methodology. I hope that
                              helps a bit.

                              James
                            • ja_rickey
                              ... many ... practice. I ... saturday. I can t ... feels very ... have had a ... and I saw ... this. Can ... Jeanette, I have been a loosely practicing
                              Message 14 of 26 , Aug 10, 2006
                                --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, LCsDove@... wrote:
                                >
                                > Hello I am new to the list. I have been interested in Buddhism for
                                many
                                > years and have found the time to really buckle down and study and
                                practice. I
                                > went to my first Tibetan Buddhist meditation session this past
                                saturday. I can't
                                > put into words the experience. I just know I want to continue. It
                                feels very
                                > right.
                                >
                                > I am torn though. I have practicing a Pagan path for 14 years. I
                                have had a
                                > discussion recently about if Buddhism is compatible with Paganism
                                and I saw
                                > this on another list i am on. I would appreciate any insight into
                                this. Can
                                > Buddhism be practiced along side Pagan ways??
                                > Thanks in Advanced
                                >
                                > Jeanette
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >


                                Jeanette,

                                I have been a "loosely" practicing Buddhist for about 1 year,
                                inasmuch as I have never really explored the doctrines and teachings
                                of Tibetan Buddhism until recently. I can understand your feelings
                                about how it felt right, because I experienced the same feelings
                                myself- only I felt that as I was reading the book The Art of
                                Happiness. It just fit and made sense.

                                I have always believed that every religion holds the same desire to
                                reach the same ultimate destination. The difference is only in two
                                areas- what we call the end destination and the path we choose to
                                arrive. Each religion is a different way to reach that end
                                destination. For some, paganism is a much easier path than Islam or
                                Judiasm as much as riding a bike is an easier trek on a flat road as
                                opposed to going through a jungle.

                                As to your question regarding whether or not paganism can be
                                practiced alongside Buddhist traditions, I feel that I am not
                                experienced or well versed enough to answer that question. However,
                                I can tell you that my fiancee is a practicing pagan. I do support
                                her in her spitirual path, and find much common ground regarding
                                beliefs and traditions. We just differ on methodology. I hope that
                                helps a bit.

                                James
                              • ja_rickey
                                ... many ... practice. I ... saturday. I can t ... feels very ... have had a ... and I saw ... this. Can ... Jeanette, I have been a loosely practicing
                                Message 15 of 26 , Aug 10, 2006
                                  --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, LCsDove@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hello I am new to the list. I have been interested in Buddhism for
                                  many
                                  > years and have found the time to really buckle down and study and
                                  practice. I
                                  > went to my first Tibetan Buddhist meditation session this past
                                  saturday. I can't
                                  > put into words the experience. I just know I want to continue. It
                                  feels very
                                  > right.
                                  >
                                  > I am torn though. I have practicing a Pagan path for 14 years. I
                                  have had a
                                  > discussion recently about if Buddhism is compatible with Paganism
                                  and I saw
                                  > this on another list i am on. I would appreciate any insight into
                                  this. Can
                                  > Buddhism be practiced along side Pagan ways??
                                  > Thanks in Advanced
                                  >
                                  > Jeanette
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >


                                  Jeanette,

                                  I have been a "loosely" practicing Buddhist for about 1 year,
                                  inasmuch as I have never really explored the doctrines and teachings
                                  of Tibetan Buddhism until recently. I can understand your feelings
                                  about how it felt right, because I experienced the same feelings
                                  myself- only I felt that as I was reading the book The Art of
                                  Happiness. It just fit and made sense.

                                  I have always believed that every religion holds the same desire to
                                  reach the same ultimate destination. The difference is only in two
                                  areas- what we call the end destination and the path we choose to
                                  arrive. Each religion is a different way to reach that end
                                  destination. For some, paganism is a much easier path than Islam or
                                  Judiasm as much as riding a bike is an easier trek on a flat road as
                                  opposed to going through a jungle.

                                  As to your question regarding whether or not paganism can be
                                  practiced alongside Buddhist traditions, I feel that I am not
                                  experienced or well versed enough to answer that question. However,
                                  I can tell you that my fiancee is a practicing pagan. I do support
                                  her in her spitirual path, and find much common ground regarding
                                  beliefs and traditions. We just differ on methodology. I hope that
                                  helps a bit.

                                  James
                                • LCsDove@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 8/10/2006 1:47:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dispater@hotmail.com writes: I hope that helps a bit. James Yes James, I appreciate your
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Aug 10, 2006
                                    In a message dated 8/10/2006 1:47:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                    dispater@... writes:

                                    I hope that
                                    helps a bit.

                                    James



                                    Yes James, I appreciate your insight and everyone else on this list that
                                    posted something to me or emailed me privately. This past week has been in a
                                    very meditative state while still functioning "in reality" so to speak. I have
                                    spent much time discussing this with others and really inside of myself and I
                                    do believe I can find a way to make it all work *smiles* I am really looking
                                    forward to the weekly meditation session on Saturday.

                                    Jeanette


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • ken
                                    ... James, I would agree with you. What appeals to me about paganism (at least the sort I m familiar with) is that it is not proscriptive. It seems that
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Aug 10, 2006
                                      ja_rickey wrote:
                                      > --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, LCsDove@... wrote:
                                      >> .... I have practicing a Pagan path for 14 years. I
                                      >> have had a
                                      >> discussion recently about if Buddhism is compatible with Paganism
                                      > and I saw
                                      >> this on another list i am on. I would appreciate any insight into
                                      > this. Can
                                      >> Buddhism be practiced along side Pagan ways??
                                      >> Thanks in Advanced
                                      >>
                                      >> Jeanette
                                      >
                                      > Jeanette,
                                      >
                                      > ....
                                      >
                                      > I have always believed that every religion holds the same desire to
                                      > reach the same ultimate destination. The difference is only in two
                                      > areas- what we call the end destination and the path we choose to
                                      > arrive. Each religion is a different way to reach that end
                                      > destination. For some, paganism is a much easier path than Islam or
                                      > Judiasm as much as riding a bike is an easier trek on a flat road as
                                      > opposed to going through a jungle.
                                      >
                                      > As to your question regarding whether or not paganism can be
                                      > practiced alongside Buddhist traditions, I feel that I am not
                                      > experienced or well versed enough to answer that question. However,
                                      > I can tell you that my fiancee is a practicing pagan. I do support
                                      > her in her spitirual path, and find much common ground regarding
                                      > beliefs and traditions. We just differ on methodology. I hope that
                                      > helps a bit.
                                      >
                                      > James

                                      James, I would agree with you. What appeals to me about paganism (at
                                      least the sort I'm familiar with) is that it is not proscriptive. It
                                      seems that every major religion, in some degree or another, says 'do
                                      this' and 'don't do that' and 'this is what you should think' and 'don't
                                      believe that'. What I feel I need in my spiritual world is more
                                      understanding and fewer blackbox rules.
                                    • John Pellecchia
                                      Most religious beliefs contain a certain amount of, for want of a better term, magic in them -- even my beloved Tibetan Buddhism. For example, one can
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Aug 10, 2006
                                        Most religious beliefs contain a certain amount of, for want of a
                                        better term, "magic" in them -- even my beloved Tibetan Buddhism. For
                                        example, one can purchase online:

                                        A small Tibetan amulet (called tung-a), made by Tibetan monks, are
                                        worn for protection and can be hung over a door on in the car. They
                                        are said to cut through obstacles of transitional periods, dispel
                                        negative influences, and heal imbalances. Each unique amulet contains
                                        a hand drawn mandala on paper with seed syllables, phrases, mantras,
                                        and is consecrated by prayer. The price for this protection? A mere
                                        $20US. Yes, I have one hanging from the rear mirror of my car but I
                                        use it more of a remembrance of my belief than the idea of actual
                                        protection. Go 100 miles an hour and hit a tree and see what kind of
                                        protection is obtained.

                                        Having a rupa filled and consecrated by monks (approx. $100 depending
                                        upon its size) makes it more meaningful than one that is just
                                        purchased from a supplier? I wonder.

                                        And what about malas? Different ones for different mantras? Lapis
                                        beads are best for Medicine Buddha mantras (approximately $200),
                                        turquoise beads are appropriate for Green Tara ($80 but prices vary),
                                        amber beads ($165+), while crystal ($80+) is best suitable for
                                        tranquillity mantras such as Chenrezig practice.

                                        And, for a mere $38 you can purchase a slate Om Mani Padme Hum plaque
                                        to generate auspicious energy ($12 for a cast aluminum one). Perfect
                                        for the garden or above a doorway,

                                        Auspicious and inauspicious days for cutting your hair? Yes, they are
                                        listed on Tibetan calendars.

                                        Also listed on Tibetan calendars are the best and worst days for
                                        hanging prayer flags. Personally, I like the idea of prayer flags
                                        since they remind me that peace and goodness belong to all -- just as
                                        the wind that makes them flutter in the breeze. It's the thought of
                                        their intent that I appreciate and like and THAT, hopefully, will make
                                        me practice what they represent.

                                        I'm not trying to denigrate any of these items but am trying to show
                                        that "magic" permeates most belief structures (don't even get me
                                        started on the more traditional religions). All I can say is that if
                                        the item brings meaning to your faith, gives you peace, and focus,
                                        then it's good. However, use it with the wrong motivation like "I can
                                        do anything because this will protect me, make me better, free me from
                                        negative merit, or whatever"; then it's contrary to the ultimate
                                        inherent belief that all faiths (especially Buddhism) profess. I
                                        wonder how much of what is available on line is more from belief than
                                        for making a buck.

                                        How did the early Buddhists possibly gain merit without all of this?
                                        Or, perhaps, they gained merit because they didn't. Just a few passing
                                        musings.

                                        May all be at peace.

                                        John
                                      • John Pellecchia
                                        Ken, Regarding 927 at the end of the referenced quote but let me try to explain. In most suttras the lines (stanza) are consecutively numbered. This makes it
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Aug 11, 2006
                                          Ken,

                                          Regarding 927 at the end of the referenced quote but let me try to
                                          explain. In most suttras the lines (stanza) are consecutively
                                          numbered. This makes it easier for one to "check on" the quotation --
                                          much like in Christianity you may see something like:

                                          "For behold the Kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21

                                          The above means it came from the Gospel (Book) of Luke, chapter 17,
                                          verse 21. To make matters more confusing, at one time the chapter was
                                          written in Roman numerals such as Luke XVII:21. I apologize if you
                                          already know all of this but it helps to clarify what follows.

                                          In Buddhist texts there is a similar contrivance although most texts
                                          do not traditionally have chapters as we currently expect in a book.
                                          For example:

                                          The person in this world
                                          who would not take what is not given,
                                          whether large or small, light or heavy,
                                          beautiful or ugly,
                                          that one I call superior. (Dhammapada 410)

                                          This method is still traditionally used in many Buddhist texts. Some,
                                          however, are numbering stanzas consecutively within a chapter -- so
                                          you would need to know the chapter in addition. Most confusing if
                                          you're using a traditionally numbered text since titles of chapters
                                          are not always the same (Oh, my).

                                          This brings me to the "927" used in the referenced quote. Without
                                          knowing the suttra to which it refers one cannot verify the quote.
                                          Imagine if in my first example it merely said 17:21? It would be
                                          nearly impossible to know where to look -- Old or New Testament much
                                          less which book within each. I believe we all realize that frequently
                                          what was said before or after a quote may change its meaning
                                          considerably. As we have heard too often stated by politicians, "What
                                          I said was taken out of context."

                                          I hope this is of some help. Sorry it took so long to reply to your
                                          question.

                                          May all be at peace.

                                          John
                                        • ken
                                          John, Thanks for the thorough explanation. I, too, believe that it can be much better to explain too much than to explain too little. Believe me, I ve read a
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Aug 11, 2006
                                            John,

                                            Thanks for the thorough explanation. I, too, believe that it can be
                                            much better to explain too much than to explain too little. Believe me,
                                            I've read a lot of technical documentation which could use more
                                            background info, which assume way too much on the part of the reader.

                                            So the 927 in the original text refers to a line number in some suttra.
                                            But we don't know which suttra. Is that correct?

                                            Or is Athabbana(-veda) the name of the suttra?

                                            I understand that a suttra is a writing (either Hindu or Buddhist), but
                                            doesn't it have a more formal meaning, similar to "verse" in Christianity?

                                            Thanks again for your answers. I've learned-- quite often-- that when I
                                            give good answers, because people have found what they think is a good
                                            source of knowledge, they ask more questions, so I have to pay penance
                                            by answering more questions. This, I think, must be some obscure karmic
                                            law. :)


                                            Regards,
                                            ken

                                            John Pellecchia wrote:
                                            > Ken,
                                            >
                                            > Regarding 927 at the end of the referenced quote but let me try to
                                            > explain. In most suttras the lines (stanza) are consecutively
                                            > numbered. This makes it easier for one to "check on" the quotation --
                                            > much like in Christianity you may see something like:
                                            >
                                            > "For behold the Kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21
                                            >
                                            > The above means it came from the Gospel (Book) of Luke, chapter 17,
                                            > verse 21. To make matters more confusing, at one time the chapter was
                                            > written in Roman numerals such as Luke XVII:21. I apologize if you
                                            > already know all of this but it helps to clarify what follows.
                                            >
                                            > In Buddhist texts there is a similar contrivance although most texts
                                            > do not traditionally have chapters as we currently expect in a book.
                                            > For example:
                                            >
                                            > The person in this world
                                            > who would not take what is not given,
                                            > whether large or small, light or heavy,
                                            > beautiful or ugly,
                                            > that one I call superior. (Dhammapada 410)
                                            >
                                            > This method is still traditionally used in many Buddhist texts. Some,
                                            > however, are numbering stanzas consecutively within a chapter -- so
                                            > you would need to know the chapter in addition. Most confusing if
                                            > you're using a traditionally numbered text since titles of chapters
                                            > are not always the same (Oh, my).
                                            >
                                            > This brings me to the "927" used in the referenced quote. Without
                                            > knowing the suttra to which it refers one cannot verify the quote.
                                            > Imagine if in my first example it merely said 17:21? It would be
                                            > nearly impossible to know where to look -- Old or New Testament much
                                            > less which book within each. I believe we all realize that frequently
                                            > what was said before or after a quote may change its meaning
                                            > considerably. As we have heard too often stated by politicians, "What
                                            > I said was taken out of context."
                                            >
                                            > I hope this is of some help. Sorry it took so long to reply to your
                                            > question.
                                            >
                                            > May all be at peace.
                                            >
                                            > John
                                          • John Pellecchia
                                            Ken, If askng questions leads to a lower realm rebirth then I am damned. We are all sojourners together and need to question. That was the Buddha s mandate to
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Aug 11, 2006
                                              Ken,

                                              If askng questions leads to a lower realm rebirth then I am damned. We
                                              are all sojourners together and need to question. That was the
                                              Buddha's mandate to us all.

                                              I did a little searching and, as best as I can find, the Ambattha
                                              Sutta is very esoteric. You can read it at:
                                              http://www.buddhistinformation.com/ida_b_wells_memorial_sutra_library/ambattha_sutta_com.htm

                                              Personally, I'm a little hestitant re magic and superstition in
                                              Buddhism as in all the "Western" beliefs. I tend to concentrate on
                                              those areas which have meaning to me -- which I can accept as an
                                              expression of faith as opposed to "protection," "guaranteeing higher
                                              re-birth," etc. purely though tangible items (e.g., carry this item
                                              and you'll have a good death). Much of which seems to be superstition
                                              at least if not magic in the traditional meaning of the word.

                                              Well, check the link, read the suttra, and let me know your opinions.

                                              May all be at peace.

                                              John
                                            • John Pellecchia
                                              ... http://www.buddhistinformation.com/ida_b_wells_memorial_sutra_library/ambattha_sutta_com.htm ... Ken, I did a little more searching (guess I spoke too
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Aug 11, 2006
                                                --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, "John Pellecchia" <pellejf@...>
                                                wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Ken,
                                                >
                                                > If askng questions leads to a lower realm rebirth then I am damned. We
                                                > are all sojourners together and need to question. That was the
                                                > Buddha's mandate to us all.
                                                >
                                                > I did a little searching and, as best as I can find, the Ambattha
                                                > Sutta is very esoteric. You can read it at:
                                                >
                                                http://www.buddhistinformation.com/ida_b_wells_memorial_sutra_library/ambattha_sutta_com.htm
                                                >
                                                > Personally, I'm a little hestitant re magic and superstition in
                                                > Buddhism as in all the "Western" beliefs. I tend to concentrate on
                                                > those areas which have meaning to me -- which I can accept as an
                                                > expression of faith as opposed to "protection," "guaranteeing higher
                                                > re-birth," etc. purely though tangible items (e.g., carry this item
                                                > and you'll have a good death). Much of which seems to be superstition
                                                > at least if not magic in the traditional meaning of the word.
                                                >
                                                > Well, check the link, read the suttra, and let me know your opinions.
                                                >
                                                > May all be at peace.
                                                >
                                                > John
                                                >

                                                Ken,

                                                I did a little more searching (guess I "spoke" too soon). The above
                                                site only references the suttra. The complete suttra may be found at:

                                                http://www.ishwar.com/buddhism/holy_sutta_nipata/book04/book04_14.html

                                                Sorry for any confusion this may have caused. Hope this helps.

                                                May all be at peace.

                                                John
                                              • Christopher
                                                Is it necessary to seek definitions with concepts like religion? This keeps me from focus. At the risk of sounding infantile, I prefer to strive to just be.
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Aug 12, 2006
                                                  Is it necessary to seek definitions with concepts like religion?
                                                  This keeps me from focus.
                                                  At the risk of sounding infantile, I prefer to strive to just "be."
                                                  Religion is really just a practice as the word itself is defined. So
                                                  by that definition, I "religiously" get up every day and eat breakfast.
                                                  However, have we not seen a tremendous amount of destruction based on
                                                  "religion." Religion seems to have become belief systems with
                                                  attachments that subdivide us.
                                                  Surely we can mix, thought, feelings, concepts and ideas. But do we
                                                  need to dissect religion(s)?

                                                  -C
                                                  --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, Sean Lukens <seanlukens@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Dear Jeanette,
                                                  >
                                                  > Do you have any indications based on your experience that paganism
                                                  and Buddhism might not jive?
                                                  >
                                                  > Sean
                                                  >
                                                  > P.S.
                                                  >
                                                  > I recently enjoyed Lughnasadhi festivities and am looking forward to
                                                  the Buddhist Bon Festival :-)
                                                  >
                                                  > ----- Original Message ----
                                                  > LCsDove@... wrote: Can Buddhism be practiced along side Pagan ways??
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                • ken
                                                  ... Christopher, I really don t understand what your objection is. ... The word religion comes from the Latin re-ligare meaning to rebind , i.e., to reattach
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Aug 13, 2006
                                                    Christopher wrote:
                                                    > Is it necessary to seek definitions with concepts like religion?
                                                    > This keeps me from focus.

                                                    Christopher, I really don't understand what your objection is.


                                                    > At the risk of sounding infantile, I prefer to strive to just "be."
                                                    > Religion is really just a practice as the word itself is defined. So
                                                    > by that defnition, I "religiously" get up every day and eat breakfast.

                                                    The word religion comes from the Latin re-ligare meaning "to rebind",
                                                    i.e., to reattach to the notion of the holy (for those who have "lost"
                                                    that binding). This is quite different from a habit or a custom.
                                                    Getting up and having coffee and a cigarette for breakfast certainly
                                                    shouldn't be considered a religion... or?


                                                    > However, have we not seen a tremendous amount of destruction based on
                                                    > "religion."

                                                    Other than the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, the
                                                    Holocaust, the virtual elimination of the American Indians, the Soviet
                                                    "Experiment", and the role of the Christian Right in contemporary
                                                    American politics?


                                                    > Religion seems to have become belief systems with
                                                    > attachments that subdivide us.
                                                    > Surely we can mix, thought, feelings, concepts and ideas. But do we
                                                    > need to dissect religion(s)?

                                                    Personally, I find it helpful to understand ways in which various
                                                    religions and cultures hold common and disparate beliefs. Are you
                                                    saying that I and others shouldn't do this? If so, why not?


                                                    Regards,
                                                    ken


                                                    >
                                                    > -C
                                                    > --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, Sean Lukens <seanlukens@...> wrote:
                                                    >> Dear Jeanette,
                                                    >>
                                                    >> Do you have any indications based on your experience that paganism
                                                    > and Buddhism might not jive?
                                                    >> Sean
                                                    >>
                                                    >> P.S.
                                                    >>
                                                    >> I recently enjoyed Lughnasadhi festivities and am looking forward to
                                                    > the Buddhist Bon Festival :-)
                                                    >> ----- Original Message ----
                                                    >> LCsDove@... wrote: Can Buddhism be practiced along side Pagan ways??
                                                    >>
                                                    >>....
                                                  • Christopher
                                                    I said have we NOT seen destruction....based on religion. I should have wrote more clearly. I really love your examples too; very well put. What I was trying
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Aug 17, 2006
                                                      I said have we NOT seen destruction....based on religion. I should
                                                      have wrote more clearly. I really love your examples too; very well put.
                                                      What I was trying to say is that attachment to religion seems to be a
                                                      cause of a lot of turmoil. When we seek to define our "religions" and
                                                      we put those stakes in the ground, it can be hard for us to to budge.
                                                      Then it is hard for us to share so many positive thoughts that come
                                                      from promptings that stem from different cultures.

                                                      You and I are probably in the same camp. You just seem to have a
                                                      better way with words.

                                                      Thank you, Ken.

                                                      -Christopher



                                                      --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, ken <gebser@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Christopher wrote:
                                                      > > Is it necessary to seek definitions with concepts like religion?
                                                      > > This keeps me from focus.
                                                      >
                                                      > Christopher, I really don't understand what your objection is.
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > > At the risk of sounding infantile, I prefer to strive to just "be."
                                                      > > Religion is really just a practice as the word itself is defined. So
                                                      > > by that defnition, I "religiously" get up every day and eat breakfast.
                                                      >
                                                      > The word religion comes from the Latin re-ligare meaning "to rebind",
                                                      > i.e., to reattach to the notion of the holy (for those who have "lost"
                                                      > that binding). This is quite different from a habit or a custom.
                                                      > Getting up and having coffee and a cigarette for breakfast certainly
                                                      > shouldn't be considered a religion... or?
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > > However, have we not seen a tremendous amount of destruction based on
                                                      > > "religion."
                                                      >
                                                      > Other than the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, the
                                                      > Holocaust, the virtual elimination of the American Indians, the Soviet
                                                      > "Experiment", and the role of the Christian Right in contemporary
                                                      > American politics?
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > > Religion seems to have become belief systems with
                                                      > > attachments that subdivide us.
                                                      > > Surely we can mix, thought, feelings, concepts and ideas. But do we
                                                      > > need to dissect religion(s)?
                                                      >
                                                      > Personally, I find it helpful to understand ways in which various
                                                      > religions and cultures hold common and disparate beliefs. Are you
                                                      > saying that I and others shouldn't do this? If so, why not?
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Regards,
                                                      > ken
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > -C
                                                      > > --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, Sean Lukens <seanlukens@> wrote:
                                                      > >> Dear Jeanette,
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >> Do you have any indications based on your experience that paganism
                                                      > > and Buddhism might not jive?
                                                      > >> Sean
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >> P.S.
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >> I recently enjoyed Lughnasadhi festivities and am looking forward to
                                                      > > the Buddhist Bon Festival :-)
                                                      > >> ----- Original Message ----
                                                      > >> LCsDove@ wrote: Can Buddhism be practiced along side Pagan ways??
                                                      > >>
                                                      > >>....
                                                      >
                                                    • ken
                                                      ... I understood what you meant. My reply could have been expressed better. ... Though they might and do work that way for many people, I (and I would guess
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Aug 20, 2006
                                                        Christopher wrote:
                                                        > I said have we NOT seen destruction....based on religion. I should
                                                        > have wrote more clearly.

                                                        I understood what you meant. My reply could have been expressed better.


                                                        > I really love your examples too; very well put.
                                                        > What I was trying to say is that attachment to religion seems to be a
                                                        > cause of a lot of turmoil. When we seek to define our "religions" and
                                                        > we put those stakes in the ground, it can be hard for us to to budge.
                                                        > Then it is hard for us to share so many positive thoughts that come
                                                        > from promptings that stem from different cultures.

                                                        Though they might and do work that way for many people, I (and I would
                                                        guess that others too) see the variety of religions and beliefs as a way
                                                        to unite people... the way the French say "Viva la difference" (excuse
                                                        my poor French). We don't require that all religions be exactly the
                                                        same in the same way we don't require all people to be exactly the same.
                                                        How boring it would be to have no differences...! or even to have
                                                        clearly defined and divided groups within which everything is
                                                        homogeneous! Spiritual beliefs don't fall neatly into either Coke or
                                                        Pepsi bottles which then can never be mixed.



                                                        >
                                                        > You and I are probably in the same camp. You just seem to have a
                                                        > better way with words.

                                                        Thanks for your kind words. I heard somewhere, and it seems true again
                                                        here: there's many ways to climb the same mountain.

                                                        ken


                                                        >
                                                        > Thank you, Ken.
                                                        >
                                                        > -Christopher
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, ken <gebser@...> wrote:
                                                        >> Christopher wrote:
                                                        >>> Is it necessary to seek definitions with concepts like religion?
                                                        >>> This keeps me from focus.
                                                        >> Christopher, I really don't understand what your objection is.
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >>> At the risk of sounding infantile, I prefer to strive to just "be."
                                                        >>> Religion is really just a practice as the word itself is defined. So
                                                        >>> by that defnition, I "religiously" get up every day and eat breakfast.
                                                        >> The word religion comes from the Latin re-ligare meaning "to rebind",
                                                        >> i.e., to reattach to the notion of the holy (for those who have "lost"
                                                        >> that binding). This is quite different from a habit or a custom.
                                                        >> Getting up and having coffee and a cigarette for breakfast certainly
                                                        >> shouldn't be considered a religion... or?
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >>> However, have we not seen a tremendous amount of destruction based on
                                                        >>> "religion."
                                                        >> Other than the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, the
                                                        >> Holocaust, the virtual elimination of the American Indians, the Soviet
                                                        >> "Experiment", and the role of the Christian Right in contemporary
                                                        >> American politics?
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >>> Religion seems to have become belief systems with
                                                        >>> attachments that subdivide us.
                                                        >>> Surely we can mix, thought, feelings, concepts and ideas. But do we
                                                        >>> need to dissect religion(s)?
                                                        >> Personally, I find it helpful to understand ways in which various
                                                        >> religions and cultures hold common and disparate beliefs. Are you
                                                        >> saying that I and others shouldn't do this? If so, why not?
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >> Regards,
                                                        >> ken
                                                        >>
                                                        >>
                                                        >>> -C
                                                        >>> --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, Sean Lukens <seanlukens@> wrote:
                                                        >>>> Dear Jeanette,
                                                        >>>>
                                                        >>>> Do you have any indications based on your experience that paganism
                                                        >>> and Buddhism might not jive?
                                                        >>>> Sean
                                                        >>>>
                                                        >>>> P.S.
                                                        >>>>
                                                        >>>> I recently enjoyed Lughnasadhi festivities and am looking forward to
                                                        >>> the Buddhist Bon Festival :-)
                                                        >>>> ----- Original Message ----
                                                        >>>> LCsDove@ wrote: Can Buddhism be practiced along side Pagan ways??
                                                        >>>>
                                                        >>>> ....
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