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An Introduction To Buddhism #2 H. H. the Dalai Lama of Tibet

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  • Kindnsruls@aol.com
    The Need for Religion in Our Future Lives How do we know that there is an after-life? According to Buddhism, although the nature of Cause and Effect may be
    Message 1 of 7 , Mar 28, 2005
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      The Need for Religion in Our Future Lives

      How do we know that there is an after-life? According to Buddhism, although the nature of Cause and Effect may be different, they must have the same essential properties, they must have a definite connection; otherwise the same cause cannot result in the same effect. For example, the human body can be perceived—it has form and colour—and therefore, its immediate source or cause must also be formless. In analogy, the properties of the seeds of medicinal plants create medicine, and the seeds of poisonous plants create poison.

      Most beings have physical bodies (though in some regions of existence beings have only minds). Both mind and body must have immediate sources. At the very moment of conception, both mind and body are formed and begin to function. The immediate source of a body is that of its parents. But physical matter cannot produce mind, nor mind matter. The immediate source of a mind must, therefore, be a mind which existed before the conception took place; the mind must have continuity from a previous mind. This we hold is proof of the existence of a past life. This has been demonstrated by the accounts of adults and children who remember their past lives—a phenomenon found not only in historical records but also observed today. We can conclude from this that past life existed, and hence that life in future will exist. If belief in after-life is accepted, religious practice is necessary as nothing else can supplant it, the preparation for one’s future existence.

    • Scott
      The immediate source of a body is that of its parents. But physical matter cannot produce mind, nor mind matter. The immediate source of a mind must,
      Message 2 of 7 , Mar 28, 2005
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        "The immediate source of a body is that of its parents. But physical
        matter cannot produce mind, nor mind matter. The immediate source of a
        mind must, therefore, be a mind which existed before the conception
        took place; the mind must have continuity from a previous mind. This
        we hold is proof of the existence of a past life."

        Alright, I'm ALMOST understanding this. It is teetering on full
        understanding, but I'm not quite there. The part I don't quite "get"
        is how we can conclude that this is continuity from a previous mind,
        and not a newly generated mind energy.

        Would anyone like to discuss this aspect further?

        -Scott


        --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, Kindnsruls@a... wrote:
        >
        > The Need for Religion in Our Future Lives
        > How do we know that there is an after-life? According to Buddhism,
        although
        > the nature of Cause and Effect may be different, they must have the
        same
        > essential properties, they must have a definite connection;
        otherwise the same
        > cause cannot result in the same effect. For example, the human body
        can be
        > perceivedâ€"it has form and colourâ€"and therefore, its immediate
        source or cause
        > must also be formless. In analogy, the properties of the seeds of
        medicinal
        > plants create medicine, and the seeds of poisonous plants create
        poison.
        > Most beings have physical bodies (though in some regions of
        existence beings
        > have only minds). Both mind and body must have immediate sources. At
        the very
        > moment of conception, both mind and body are formed and begin to
        function.
        > The immediate source of a body is that of its parents. But physical
        matter
        > cannot produce mind, nor mind matter. The immediate source of a
        mind must,
        > therefore, be a mind which existed before the conception took
        place; the mind must
        > have continuity from a previous mind. This we hold is proof of the
        existence
        > of a past life. This has been demonstrated by the accounts of
        adults and
        > children who remember their past livesâ€"a phenomenon found not
        only in historical
        > records but also observed today. We can conclude from this that
        past life
        > existed, and hence that life in future will exist. If belief in
        after-life is
        > accepted, religious practice is necessary as nothing else can
        supplant it, the
        > preparation for one’s future existence.
      • Ken/
        This is very difficult and probably should be asked of someone smarter than I, but I ll give it a shot. First of all, where would this mind come from? Science
        Message 3 of 7 , Mar 29, 2005
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          This is very difficult and probably should be asked of
          someone smarter than I, but I'll give it a shot.

          First of all, where would this mind come from? Science
          has proved that something cannot be created out of
          nothing. Things are never destroyed, they simply
          change form, e.g. matter to energy, etc. Also,
          according to the most basic understanding of
          Buddhism's Dependant Origination teachings, all things
          arise from certain causes and conditions. Therefore,
          in order for mind to exist something had to come
          before, and this mind arose according to the causes
          and conditions necessary to make it so. What would
          have existed to have the causes and conditions to make
          the arising of this mind, but a previous mind? That is
          also why we talk about rebirth rather than
          reincarnation. Rather than a spiritual entity that
          changes bodies as we would change clothes, mind
          produces mind. Also, that is why only the nature of
          mind affects the next rebirth. If the mind were, say,
          cloned, then you would remember previous lives as a
          matter of course. We do not, though. Only the essence
          of the previous life is available to us.
          Your question is asking for more of the pragmatic
          answer, and I'm afraid I can't get any further than
          this.

          peace,
          K/
          --- Scott <kal_el1965@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > "The immediate source of a body is that of its
          > parents. But physical
          > matter cannot produce mind, nor mind matter. The
          > immediate source of a
          > mind must, therefore, be a mind which existed before
          > the conception
          > took place; the mind must have continuity from a
          > previous mind. This
          > we hold is proof of the existence of a past life."
          >
          > Alright, I'm ALMOST understanding this. It is
          > teetering on full
          > understanding, but I'm not quite there. The part I
          > don't quite "get"
          > is how we can conclude that this is continuity from
          > a previous mind,
          > and not a newly generated mind energy.
          >
          > Would anyone like to discuss this aspect further?
          >
          > -Scott
          >
          >
          > --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, Kindnsruls@a...
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > The Need for Religion in Our Future Lives
          > > How do we know that there is an after-life?
          > According to Buddhism,
          > although
          > > the nature of Cause and Effect may be different,
          > they must have the
          > same
          > > essential properties, they must have a definite
          > connection;
          > otherwise the same
          > > cause cannot result in the same effect. For
          > example, the human body
          > can be
          > > perceived��"it has form and colour��"and
          > therefore, its immediate
          > source or cause
          > > must also be formless. In analogy, the properties
          > of the seeds of
          > medicinal
          > > plants create medicine, and the seeds of poisonous
          > plants create
          > poison.
          > > Most beings have physical bodies (though in some
          > regions of
          > existence beings
          > > have only minds). Both mind and body must have
          > immediate sources. At
          > the very
          > > moment of conception, both mind and body are
          > formed and begin to
          > function.
          > > The immediate source of a body is that of its
          > parents. But physical
          > matter
          > > cannot produce mind, nor mind matter. The
          > immediate source of a
          > mind must,
          > > therefore, be a mind which existed before the
          > conception took
          > place; the mind must
          > > have continuity from a previous mind. This we
          > hold is proof of the
          > existence
          > > of a past life. This has been demonstrated by the
          > accounts of
          > adults and
          > > children who remember their past lives��"a
          > phenomenon found not
          > only in historical
          > > records but also observed today. We can conclude
          > from this that
          > past life
          > > existed, and hence that life in future will
          > exist. If belief in
          > after-life is
          > > accepted, religious practice is necessary as
          > nothing else can
          > supplant it, the
          > > preparation for one���s future existence.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > --------------------~-->
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          > It is easier than you think.
          > Click Here to meet a Child you can help.
          >
          http://us.click.yahoo.com/0Z9NuA/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/GkEylB/TM
          >
          --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          > Buddhism_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >



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        • Julie J.
          Scott, I m sorry I think your question is way, way beyond me. I can t even comprehend a tiny glimpse of understanding about that one! So I guess you re doing
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 29, 2005
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            Scott,

            I'm sorry I think your question is way, way beyond me. I can't even
            comprehend a tiny glimpse of understanding about that one! So I guess
            you're doing pretty good!

            I did have another question... Ken you were talking about the differences
            between rebirth and reincarnation, can you explain that further? I guess I
            am making no distinction in my mind.

            Julie


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Ken/" <klegshe@...>
            To: <Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 8:02 AM
            Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Past Life - Past Mind


            >
            > This is very difficult and probably should be asked of
            > someone smarter than I, but I'll give it a shot.
            >
            > First of all, where would this mind come from? Science
            > has proved that something cannot be created out of
            > nothing. Things are never destroyed, they simply
            > change form, e.g. matter to energy, etc. Also,
            > according to the most basic understanding of
            > Buddhism's Dependant Origination teachings, all things
            > arise from certain causes and conditions. Therefore,
            > in order for mind to exist something had to come
            > before, and this mind arose according to the causes
            > and conditions necessary to make it so. What would
            > have existed to have the causes and conditions to make
            > the arising of this mind, but a previous mind? That is
            > also why we talk about rebirth rather than
            > reincarnation. Rather than a spiritual entity that
            > changes bodies as we would change clothes, mind
            > produces mind. Also, that is why only the nature of
            > mind affects the next rebirth. If the mind were, say,
            > cloned, then you would remember previous lives as a
            > matter of course. We do not, though. Only the essence
            > of the previous life is available to us.
            > Your question is asking for more of the pragmatic
            > answer, and I'm afraid I can't get any further than
            > this.
            >
            > peace,
            > K/
            > --- Scott <kal_el1965@...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > "The immediate source of a body is that of its
            > > parents. But physical
            > > matter cannot produce mind, nor mind matter. The
            > > immediate source of a
            > > mind must, therefore, be a mind which existed before
            > > the conception
            > > took place; the mind must have continuity from a
            > > previous mind. This
            > > we hold is proof of the existence of a past life."
            > >
            > > Alright, I'm ALMOST understanding this. It is
            > > teetering on full
            > > understanding, but I'm not quite there. The part I
            > > don't quite "get"
            > > is how we can conclude that this is continuity from
            > > a previous mind,
            > > and not a newly generated mind energy.
            > >
            > > Would anyone like to discuss this aspect further?
            > >
            > > -Scott
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, Kindnsruls@a...
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > The Need for Religion in Our Future Lives
            > > > How do we know that there is an after-life?
            > > According to Buddhism,
            > > although
            > > > the nature of Cause and Effect may be different,
            > > they must have the
            > > same
            > > > essential properties, they must have a definite
            > > connection;
            > > otherwise the same
            > > > cause cannot result in the same effect. For
            > > example, the human body
            > > can be
            > > > perceivedâ?"it has form and colourâ?"and
            > > therefore, its immediate
            > > source or cause
            > > > must also be formless. In analogy, the properties
            > > of the seeds of
            > > medicinal
            > > > plants create medicine, and the seeds of poisonous
            > > plants create
            > > poison.
            > > > Most beings have physical bodies (though in some
            > > regions of
            > > existence beings
            > > > have only minds). Both mind and body must have
            > > immediate sources. At
            > > the very
            > > > moment of conception, both mind and body are
            > > formed and begin to
            > > function.
            > > > The immediate source of a body is that of its
            > > parents. But physical
            > > matter
            > > > cannot produce mind, nor mind matter. The
            > > immediate source of a
            > > mind must,
            > > > therefore, be a mind which existed before the
            > > conception took
            > > place; the mind must
            > > > have continuity from a previous mind. This we
            > > hold is proof of the
            > > existence
            > > > of a past life. This has been demonstrated by the
            > > accounts of
            > > adults and
            > > > children who remember their past livesâ?"a
            > > phenomenon found not
            > > only in historical
            > > > records but also observed today. We can conclude
            > > from this that
            > > past life
            > > > existed, and hence that life in future will
            > > exist. If belief in
            > > after-life is
            > > > accepted, religious practice is necessary as
            > > nothing else can
            > > supplant it, the
            > > > preparation for oneâ?Ts future existence.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > > Buddhism_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________
            > Do you Yahoo!?
            > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
            > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Scott
            Thanks Ken. It s all about hanging onto Me , remembering Me and My life, which I still strive to understand as none of my business. Ego wants me to hold
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 29, 2005
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              Thanks Ken.
              It's all about hanging onto "Me", remembering "Me" and "My" life,
              which I still strive to understand as none of my business. Ego wants
              me to hold onto the "me, myself and I".
              I'm working on it though.

              Thanks again.

              -Scott



              --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, Ken/ <klegshe@y...> wrote:
              > This is very difficult and probably should be asked of
              > someone smarter than I, but I'll give it a shot.
              >
              > First of all, where would this mind come from? Science
              > has proved that something cannot be created out of
              > nothing. Things are never destroyed, they simply
              > change form, e.g. matter to energy, etc. Also,
              > according to the most basic understanding of
              > Buddhism's Dependant Origination teachings, all things
              > arise from certain causes and conditions. Therefore,
              > in order for mind to exist something had to come
              > before, and this mind arose according to the causes
              > and conditions necessary to make it so. What would
              > have existed to have the causes and conditions to make
              > the arising of this mind, but a previous mind? That is
              > also why we talk about rebirth rather than
              > reincarnation. Rather than a spiritual entity that
              > changes bodies as we would change clothes, mind
              > produces mind. Also, that is why only the nature of
              > mind affects the next rebirth. If the mind were, say,
              > cloned, then you would remember previous lives as a
              > matter of course. We do not, though. Only the essence
              > of the previous life is available to us.
              > Your question is asking for more of the pragmatic
              > answer, and I'm afraid I can't get any further than
              > this.
              >
              > peace,
              > K/
              > --- Scott <kal_el1965@y...> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > "The immediate source of a body is that of its
              > > parents. But physical
              > > matter cannot produce mind, nor mind matter. The
              > > immediate source of a
              > > mind must, therefore, be a mind which existed before
              > > the conception
              > > took place; the mind must have continuity from a
              > > previous mind. This
              > > we hold is proof of the existence of a past life."
              > >
              > > Alright, I'm ALMOST understanding this. It is
              > > teetering on full
              > > understanding, but I'm not quite there. The part I
              > > don't quite "get"
              > > is how we can conclude that this is continuity from
              > > a previous mind,
              > > and not a newly generated mind energy.
              > >
              > > Would anyone like to discuss this aspect further?
              > >
              > > -Scott
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, Kindnsruls@a...
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > The Need for Religion in Our Future Lives
              > > > How do we know that there is an after-life?
              > > According to Buddhism,
              > > although
              > > > the nature of Cause and Effect may be different,
              > > they must have the
              > > same
              > > > essential properties, they must have a definite
              > > connection;
              > > otherwise the same
              > > > cause cannot result in the same effect. For
              > > example, the human body
              > > can be
              > > > perceivedâ€"it has form and colourâ€"and
              > > therefore, its immediate
              > > source or cause
              > > > must also be formless. In analogy, the properties
              > > of the seeds of
              > > medicinal
              > > > plants create medicine, and the seeds of poisonous
              > > plants create
              > > poison.
              > > > Most beings have physical bodies (though in some
              > > regions of
              > > existence beings
              > > > have only minds). Both mind and body must have
              > > immediate sources. At
              > > the very
              > > > moment of conception, both mind and body are
              > > formed and begin to
              > > function.
              > > > The immediate source of a body is that of its
              > > parents. But physical
              > > matter
              > > > cannot produce mind, nor mind matter. The
              > > immediate source of a
              > > mind must,
              > > > therefore, be a mind which existed before the
              > > conception took
              > > place; the mind must
              > > > have continuity from a previous mind. This we
              > > hold is proof of the
              > > existence
              > > > of a past life. This has been demonstrated by the
              > > accounts of
              > > adults and
              > > > children who remember their past livesâ€"a
              > > phenomenon found not
              > > only in historical
              > > > records but also observed today. We can conclude
              > > from this that
              > > past life
              > > > existed, and hence that life in future will
              > > exist. If belief in
              > > after-life is
              > > > accepted, religious practice is necessary as
              > > nothing else can
              > > supplant it, the
              > > > preparation for one’s future existence.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > > --------------------~-->
              > > Would you Help a Child in need?
              > > It is easier than you think.
              > > Click Here to meet a Child you can help.
              > >
              > http://us.click.yahoo.com/0Z9NuA/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/GkEylB/TM
              > >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > > Buddhism_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
              > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
            • Ken/
              According to Buddhist doctrine, reincarnation posits a spirit or soul that moves from one body to the next. The Buddhist doctrine of no soul or Anatman says
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 29, 2005
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                According to Buddhist doctrine, reincarnation posits a
                spirit or soul that moves from one body to the next.
                The Buddhist doctrine of no soul or 'Anatman' says
                that there is no intrinsic soul. In fact, there is
                nothing that actually moves into the next life.
                It has been explained to me in several ways, but this
                is the best and most common:
                You have a candle that is lighted. then you take that
                candle and light another from it. Is the flame on the
                second candle the same flame as the first? The energy
                of the first flame was used to start the second. So,
                in rebirth, the mind-energy/mind-essence/nature of the
                mind starts a new mind.
                This is not a real good explanation.
                Perhaps this will help:
                http://buddhism.about.com/cs/samsara/a/Rebirth.htm
                http://buddhism.about.com/library/weekly/aa071602a.htm

                To all:
                I often use About.com to research certain aspects of
                Buddhism and other things. I recommend it, highly, for
                beginning Buddhists and those that just have a few
                questions.
                http://buddhism.about.com/
                Save this link and check it out at your leisure.

                peace,
                Ken/

                --- "Julie J." <jlcrane@...> wrote:

                >
                > Scott,
                >
                > I'm sorry I think your question is way, way beyond
                > me. I can't even
                > comprehend a tiny glimpse of understanding about
                > that one! So I guess
                > you're doing pretty good!
                >
                > I did have another question... Ken you were talking
                > about the differences
                > between rebirth and reincarnation, can you explain
                > that further? I guess I
                > am making no distinction in my mind.
                >
                > Julie
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Ken/" <klegshe@...>
                > To: <Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 8:02 AM
                > Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Past Life - Past Mind
                >
                >
                > >
                > > This is very difficult and probably should be
                > asked of
                > > someone smarter than I, but I'll give it a shot.
                > >
                > > First of all, where would this mind come from?
                > Science
                > > has proved that something cannot be created out of
                > > nothing. Things are never destroyed, they simply
                > > change form, e.g. matter to energy, etc. Also,
                > > according to the most basic understanding of
                > > Buddhism's Dependant Origination teachings, all
                > things
                > > arise from certain causes and conditions.
                > Therefore,
                > > in order for mind to exist something had to come
                > > before, and this mind arose according to the
                > causes
                > > and conditions necessary to make it so. What would
                > > have existed to have the causes and conditions to
                > make
                > > the arising of this mind, but a previous mind?
                > That is
                > > also why we talk about rebirth rather than
                > > reincarnation. Rather than a spiritual entity that
                > > changes bodies as we would change clothes, mind
                > > produces mind. Also, that is why only the nature
                > of
                > > mind affects the next rebirth. If the mind were,
                > say,
                > > cloned, then you would remember previous lives as
                > a
                > > matter of course. We do not, though. Only the
                > essence
                > > of the previous life is available to us.
                > > Your question is asking for more of the pragmatic
                > > answer, and I'm afraid I can't get any further
                > than
                > > this.
                > >
                > > peace,
                > > K/
                > > --- Scott <kal_el1965@...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > "The immediate source of a body is that of its
                > > > parents. But physical
                > > > matter cannot produce mind, nor mind matter. The
                > > > immediate source of a
                > > > mind must, therefore, be a mind which existed
                > before
                > > > the conception
                > > > took place; the mind must have continuity from a
                > > > previous mind. This
                > > > we hold is proof of the existence of a past
                > life."
                > > >
                > > > Alright, I'm ALMOST understanding this. It is
                > > > teetering on full
                > > > understanding, but I'm not quite there. The part
                > I
                > > > don't quite "get"
                > > > is how we can conclude that this is continuity
                > from
                > > > a previous mind,
                > > > and not a newly generated mind energy.
                > > >
                > > > Would anyone like to discuss this aspect
                > further?
                > > >
                > > > -Scott
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com,
                > Kindnsruls@a...
                > > > wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > The Need for Religion in Our Future Lives
                > > > > How do we know that there is an after-life?
                > > > According to Buddhism,
                > > > although
                > > > > the nature of Cause and Effect may be
                > different,
                > > > they must have the
                > > > same
                > > > > essential properties, they must have a
                > definite
                > > > connection;
                > > > otherwise the same
                > > > > cause cannot result in the same effect. For
                > > > example, the human body
                > > > can be
                > > > > perceived�?"it has form and colour�?"and
                > > > therefore, its immediate
                > > > source or cause
                > > > > must also be formless. In analogy, the
                > properties
                > > > of the seeds of
                > > > medicinal
                > > > > plants create medicine, and the seeds of
                > poisonous
                > > > plants create
                > > > poison.
                > > > > Most beings have physical bodies (though in
                > some
                > > > regions of
                > > > existence beings
                > > > > have only minds). Both mind and body must have
                > > > immediate sources. At
                > > > the very
                > > > > moment of conception, both mind and body are
                > > > formed and begin to
                > > > function.
                > > > > The immediate source of a body is that of its
                > > > parents. But physical
                > > > matter
                > > > > cannot produce mind, nor mind matter. The
                > > > immediate source of a
                > > > mind must,
                > > > > therefore, be a mind which existed before the
                > > > conception took
                > > > place; the mind must
                > > > > have continuity from a previous mind. This we
                > > > hold is proof of the
                > > > existence
                > > > > of a past life. This has been demonstrated by
                > the
                > > > accounts of
                > > > adults and
                > > > > children who remember their past lives�?"a
                > > > phenomenon found not
                > > > only in historical
                > > > > records but also observed today. We can
                > conclude
                > > > from this that
                > > > past life
                > > > > existed, and hence that life in future will
                > > > exist. If belief in
                > > > after-life is
                > > > > accepted, religious practice is necessary as
                > > > nothing else can
                > > > supplant it, the
                > > > > preparation for one�?Ts future existence.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
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              • Julie J.
                Ken, Thanks! I read the info from those links. I don t know that it s real clear yet, but I m a little closer anyway! LOL I suppose if everything made
                Message 7 of 7 , Mar 31, 2005
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                  Ken,

                  Thanks! I read the info from those links. I don't know that it's real
                  clear yet, but I'm a little closer anyway! LOL I suppose if everything
                  made sense the first time we would have already achieved clarity of mind and
                  Buddahood.

                  Thanks again,
                  Julie
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