Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [Buddhism_101] Re: Digest Number 121

Expand Messages
  • dzogchenstudent@xemaps.com
    ... Oh...now I see :-) No, I don t believe or follow after one practice, then another. In Buddhism, there are so many different paths (Zen, Theravadan, the
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 30, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      >Hi Drudche,

      Oh...now I see :-) No, I don't believe or follow after one practice, then
      another. In Buddhism, there are so many different paths (Zen, Theravadan,
      the Mahayana lines, Bon). Yes, they all lead to the same
      place....eventually but if I were to follow them all simultaneously, I
      would probably only be going in circles much of the time.

      Sorry, was not clear or did not understand....I meant with respect to the
      philosophical doctrines as opposed to meditation, empowerment, initiation
      practices. As I am teacherless...well, I was until just recently....I had
      only the 4 noble truths, 8 fold path and Vipassana meditation. I have
      attempted dzogchen but it is one of the more arcane routes I find and
      reliable teachers are not not all that prevalent so I let it go.......seems
      unwise to reinvent the dharma wheel, so to speak :-)

      In point of fact, I've had rather a wake up moment just recently. Having
      had a rather..uh...unusual response to one meditation I learned I began
      inquiring about tantric, jhanas, and kundalini meditation
      practices. Scared the snot out of me to say the least :-) One fellow
      described very unpleasant states and sought out a psychologist as he
      thought he had a psychotic break. I need that like a hole in my
      head..uh...another :-) hole in my head. So, as you have stated it, yes, I
      would say one could easily get very confused...

      rookielynn



      >I,m not certain what that statement of Steve's entails either.
      >
      >As far as practice again, I can only speak for myself as I can't walk
      >you path for you. I can say, though, that when I knew in the the
      >heart of my heart that my direction was of Buddhism, I found it
      >necessary to find a few key and essential practices for myself and
      >stayed with them, the main reason being that I didn't want to be a
      >jack of all trades and the master of none. I've known people that
      >heap themselves with various Tibetan practices and empowerments and
      >are soo busy doing the rudiments they do not fully understand the
      >import of any one practice. I received the Amitabha powa practice
      >eight years age and the truth and impact of that practice is still
      >revealing itself. I am sure the full import of that practice alone
      >cannot be fully contained in one lifetime. There is also a tendency
      >on the part of some to collect practices more out of a sense of ego
      >than practical use, to establish their "buddhist pedigree".
      >
      >As far as mixing practices, a personal preference, I suppose,
      >although some assembly of ideas of some I have met are so
      >diametrically opposed that I cannot believe the practioner takes any
      >one of them seriously.
      >
      >Drudche
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >--- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, dzogchenstudent@x wrote:
      > > >
      > > >-The fact that you are reading this means in your last rebirth you
      > > >probally left the bardo on the third day. steve--
      > >
      > >
      > > Forgive me, but I have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking
      >about in the
      > > above statement :-) rookielynn
      > >
      > > >In
      > > >Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, dzogchenstudent@x wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >In a message dated 9/30/2003 9:11:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
      > > > > >Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com writes:
      > > > > >There are as infinite a number of ways to
      > > > > >the
      > > > > > > divine as their are stars in the sky. Why choose just one.
      > > >They all have
      > > > > > > merit and wisdom.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Namaste'
      > > > > > > Karen
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >Joyce writes: (snipped)
      > > > > >I totally agree with the statements that there is no need for
      >one
      > > >spirtual
      > > > > >discipline for the whole planet........if each individual
      >simply
      > > >took to
      > > > > >heart, and lived their own spiritual teachings which are all
      >based
      > > >in
      > > > > >love, and compassion there would be no problems in this
      >world. :D
      > > > > >
      > > > > >I would humbly suggest though that all should avoid
      >the "spititual
      > > > > >shopping" or "dabbling" syndrome very common here with us
      >western
      > > >seekers.
      > > > > >It is very good to explore, learn, and understand many
      >different
      > > >spiritual
      > > > > >disciplines......but eventually we need to...as it is
      > > >said ...."Take the
      > > > > >one seat."
      > > > > >Doesn't matter which seat you choose.......but in order to
      > > >progress deeply
      > > > > >along a path of spiritual discipline one does need at some
      >point
      > > >to
      > > > > >commit......and sit.
      > > > > >May All Beings Be Happy.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Joyce
      > > > >
      > > > > For my part, the spiritual shopping has been a way of life :-)
      >Not
      > > >that I
      > > > > bounce from one to another so much as bring together to
      >coalesce
      > > >into my
      > > > > one understanding. This was how I was raised and it has it's
      > > >drawbacks,
      > > > > certainly, I cannot call myself any one thing (which is not all
      > > >bad) but I
      > > > > have no support either. hell, for example is not part of my
      > > >lexicon at all
      > > > > except in the sense that one is not spiritually connected and
      >has
      > > >an
      > > > > "empty" place inside where a spiritual self should reside.
      >Because
      > > >of that
      > > > > I cannot fully embrace, I feel, Buddhism because I cannot
      >accept,
      > > >other
      > > > > then metaphorically, the six realms of existence nor do I
      >believe
      > > >that
      > > > > humans will be reborn into animal forms. But I have no problem
      > > >embracing
      > > > > the foundations of Buddhism (4 noble truths, 8 fold path) and
      >daily
      > > > > practice. For most people, my approach is completely
      >unacceptable
      > > >but I am
      > > > > what I am....................rl
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > > >Buddhism_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
      >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >Buddhism_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • taylorjacob2002
      -my reply was -- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, taylorjacob2002 ... post.sorry if this branch caused confusion.steve Joyce writes: For my part, the
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 1, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        -my reply was -- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, "taylorjacob2002"
        <taylorjacob2002@y...> wrote:
        > -The fact that you are reading this means in your last rebirth you
        > probally left the bardo on the third day. steve-- In
        > Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com in response to the following
        post.sorry if this branch caused confusion.steve


        Joyce writes:
        For my part, the spiritual shopping has been a way of life :-) Not
        that I bounce from one to another so much as bring together to
        coalesce into my one understanding. This was how I was raised and it
        has it's drawbacks, certainly, I cannot call myself any one thing
        (which is not all bad) but I have no support either. hell, for
        example is not part of my lexicon at all except in the sense that one
        is not spiritually connected and has an "empty" place inside where a
        spiritual self should reside. Because of that I cannot fully
        embrace, I feel, Buddhism because I cannot accept, other then
        metaphorically, the six realms of existence nor do I believe that
        humans will be reborn into animal forms. But I have no problem
        embracing the foundations of Buddhism (4 noble truths, 8 fold path)
        and daily practice. For most people, my approach is completely
        unacceptable but I am what I am....................rl

        -- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, "taylorjacob2002"
        <taylorjacob2002@y...> wrote:
        > -The fact that you are reading this means in your last rebirth you
        > probally left the bardo on the third day. steve-- In
        > Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, dzogchenstudent@x wrote:
        > >
        > > >
        > > >In a message dated 9/30/2003 9:11:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
        > > >Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com writes:
        > > >There are as infinite a number of ways to
        > > >the
        > > > > divine as their are stars in the sky. Why choose just one.
        > They all have
        > > > > merit and wisdom.
        > > > >
        > > > > Namaste'
        > > > > Karen
        > > > >
        > > >Joyce writes: (snipped)
        > > >I totally agree with the statements that there is no need for
        one
        > spirtual
        > > >discipline for the whole planet........if each individual simply
        > took to
        > > >heart, and lived their own spiritual teachings which are all
        based
        > in
        > > >love, and compassion there would be no problems in this world. :D
        > > >
        > > >I would humbly suggest though that all should avoid
        the "spititual
        > > >shopping" or "dabbling" syndrome very common here with us
        western
        > seekers.
        > > >It is very good to explore, learn, and understand many different
        > spiritual
        > > >disciplines......but eventually we need to...as it is
        > said ...."Take the
        > > >one seat."
        > > >Doesn't matter which seat you choose.......but in order to
        > progress deeply
        > > >along a path of spiritual discipline one does need at some point
        > to
        > > >commit......and sit.
        > > >May All Beings Be Happy.
        > > >
        > > > Joyce
        > >
        > > For my part, the spiritual shopping has been a way of life :-)
        Not
        > that I
        > > bounce from one to another so much as bring together to coalesce
        > into my
        > > one understanding. This was how I was raised and it has it's
        > drawbacks,
        > > certainly, I cannot call myself any one thing (which is not all
        > bad) but I
        > > have no support either. hell, for example is not part of my
        > lexicon at all
        > > except in the sense that one is not spiritually connected and has
        > an
        > > "empty" place inside where a spiritual self should reside.
        Because
        > of that
        > > I cannot fully embrace, I feel, Buddhism because I cannot accept,
        > other
        > > then metaphorically, the six realms of existence nor do I believe
        > that
        > > humans will be reborn into animal forms. But I have no problem
        > embracing
        > > the foundations of Buddhism (4 noble truths, 8 fold path) and
        daily
        > > practice. For most people, my approach is completely
        unacceptable
        > but I am
        > > what I am....................rl
      • Diane Glasby
        It s not that I disagree, but I m not sure I can commit to a spiritual path. I ve been influenced in so many ways (science, philosophy, psychology), that I
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 12, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
           
          It's not that I disagree, but I'm not sure I can "commit" to a spiritual path. I've been influenced in so many ways (science,  philosophy, psychology), that I can't check all my other  baggage at the door. I can't disregard things I know about physics or Existentialism just because I want to pursue a "path". Religion may be a package deal, but it's hard to *make* yourself accept a teaching that you genuinely don't believe. But I'd be interested to hear what others do when they run into Buddhist concept that just seems wrong or improbable. Do you just overlook it, decide to deal with it at another time?
           
           
          I would humbly suggest though that all should avoid the "spititual shopping" or "dabbling" syndrome very common here with us western seekers.
          It is very good to explore, learn, and understand many different spiritual disciplines......but eventually we need to...as it is said ...."Take the one seat."
          Doesn't matter which seat you choose.......but in order to progress deeply along a path of spiritual discipline one does need at some point to commit......and sit.
          May All Beings Be Happy.

                 
        • dzogchenstudent@xemaps.com
          Hi Diane, I respectfully submit that you should give up absolutely nothing in any pursuit of religion (packaged or piecemeal). One of the things about
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 12, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Diane,

            I respectfully submit that you should give up absolutely nothing in any pursuit of religion (packaged or piecemeal).  One of the things about Buddhism that attracted me (aside from the very rightness of the 4 noble truths and the 8 fold path) is the Kalama sutra. 

            In that sutra the Buddha said, basically, "try what I am saying...put it into practice and see if what I say is true and of benefit.  If it proves not to be true or beneficial....then discard it".

            Irrespective of what anyone says, I know practicing Catholics that also practice Buddhism.  I know mensa calibre bio genetic engineers that are Buddhists.  Neither of them has seen fit to discard their beliefs in God or their beliefs in science. 

            Nothing in life (either illusory or otherwise) is worth tossing out the window without something of equal or greater value with which to replace it. Commit to nothing that you do not regard as worth the committment.... Sorry.................just my worthless 2 cents....rookielynn

            It's not that I disagree, but I'm not sure I can "commit" to a spiritual path. I've been influenced in so many ways (science,  philosophy, psychology), that I can't check all my other  baggage at the door. I can't disregard things I know about physics or Existentialism just because I want to pursue a "path". Religion may be a package deal, but it's hard to *make* yourself accept a teaching that you genuinely don't believe. But I'd be interested to hear what others do when they run into Buddhist concept that just seems wrong or improbable. Do you just overlook it, decide to deal with it at another time?
             
             
            I would humbly suggest though that all should avoid the "spititual shopping" or "dabbling" syndrome very common here with us western seekers.
            It is very good to explore, learn, and understand many different spiritual disciplines......but eventually we need to...as it is said ...."Take the one seat."
            Doesn't matter which seat you choose.......but in order to progress deeply along a path of spiritual discipline one does need at some point to commit......and sit.
            May All Beings Be Happy.

                   



            Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            1890b43.jpg 
            1890ba1.jpg

            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            Buddhism_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          • CLEOCATRAs@aol.com
            In a message dated 10/12/2003 9:38:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ... I believe one should dabble to their heart s content. When they are done dabbling they will
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 12, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              In a message dated 10/12/2003 9:38:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dglasby@... writes:


              I would humbly suggest though that all should avoid the "spititual shopping" or "dabbling" syndrome very common here with us western seekers.
              It is very good to explore, learn, and understand many different spiritual disciplines......but eventually we need to...as it is said ...."Take the one seat."
              Doesn't matter which seat you choose.......but in order to progress deeply along a path of spiritual discipline one does need at some point to commit......and sit.
              May All Beings Be Happy.


              I believe one should dabble to their heart's content. When they are done dabbling they will rest in their own formation of being close to their spiritual self. Not a thing wrong with it if your inner self tells you and you are listening closely. Bhudda found the truth by listening to what is within. It doesnt matter how you get there, just that you eventually do...

              Cat
            • dzogchenstudent@xemaps.com
              ... Uh...yeah!!! :-) I was trying to say something like that only you said it better :-) It s off topic but as you re familiar with kundalini
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 12, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                I would humbly suggest though that all should avoid the "spititual shopping" or "dabbling" syndrome very common here with us western seekers.
                It is very good to explore, learn, and understand many different spiritual disciplines......but eventually we need to...as it is said ...."Take the one seat."
                Doesn't matter which seat you choose.......but in order to progress deeply along a path of spiritual discipline one does need at some point to commit......and sit.
                May All Beings Be Happy.


                I believe one should dabble to their heart's content. When they are done dabbling they will rest in their own formation of being close to their spiritual self. Not a thing wrong with it if your inner self tells you and you are listening closely. Bhudda found the truth by listening to what is within. It doesnt matter how you get there, just that you eventually do...

                Cat

                Uh...yeah!!! :-)  I was trying to say something like that only you said it better :-)   It's off topic but as you're familiar with kundalini meditations????  I would really relish a conversation....and off list is OK if this is not on topic..PS...I am virtually clueless about it :-)...........rookielynn
              • Oelund Fairking
                I would venture to say do not mistake the finger pointing for the thing itself. One can use buddhist technics sucsessfully in other formats, and I would
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 13, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  I would venture to say do not mistake the finger pointing for the
                  thing itself. One can use buddhist technics sucsessfully in other
                  formats, and I would endorse sitting or visualization in a christian
                  context, but this does not make them buddhist. How can one find the
                  idea of an exclusive salvation, eternal soul or a creator god
                  compatable with the buddhist view of phenomena, or the ethics of
                  compassion when one must accept the idea of a philanthropic person
                  suffering eternal damnation and punishment, who in spreading good to
                  all men fails merely to accept Jesus Christ as his savior? Combining
                  the two is not buddhism but some religious chimera, a deformed
                  ideology that cannot survive its flaws.

                  Drudche





                  --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, dzogchenstudent@x wrote:
                  > Hi Diane,
                  >
                  > I respectfully submit that you should give up absolutely nothing in
                  any
                  > pursuit of religion (packaged or piecemeal). One of the things
                  about
                  > Buddhism that attracted me (aside from the very rightness of the 4
                  noble
                  > truths and the 8 fold path) is the Kalama sutra.
                  >
                  > In that sutra the Buddha said, basically, "try what I am
                  saying...put it
                  > into practice and see if what I say is true and of benefit. If it
                  proves
                  > not to be true or beneficial....then discard it".
                  >
                  > Irrespective of what anyone says, I know practicing Catholics that
                  also
                  > practice Buddhism. I know mensa calibre bio genetic engineers that
                  are
                  > Buddhists. Neither of them has seen fit to discard their beliefs
                  in God or
                  > their beliefs in science.
                  >
                  > Nothing in life (either illusory or otherwise) is worth tossing out
                  the
                  > window without something of equal or greater value with which to
                  replace
                  > it. Commit to nothing that you do not regard as worth the
                  committment....
                  > Sorry.................just my worthless 2 cents....rookielynn
                  >
                  > It's not that I disagree, but I'm not sure I can "commit" to a
                  spiritual
                  > path. I've been influenced in so many ways (science, philosophy,
                  > psychology), that I can't check all my other baggage at the door.
                  I can't
                  > disregard things I know about physics or Existentialism just
                  because I want
                  > to pursue a "path". Religion may be a package deal, but it's hard
                  to *make*
                  > yourself accept a teaching that you genuinely don't believe. But
                  I'd be
                  > interested to hear what others do when they run into Buddhist
                  concept that
                  > just seems wrong or improbable. Do you just overlook it, decide to
                  deal
                  > with it at another time?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >I would humbly suggest though that all should avoid the "spititual
                  > >shopping" or "dabbling" syndrome very common here with us western
                  seekers.
                  > >It is very good to explore, learn, and understand many different
                  spiritual
                  > >disciplines......but eventually we need to...as it is
                  said ...."Take the
                  > >one seat."
                  > >Doesn't matter which seat you choose.......but in order to
                  progress deeply
                  > >along a path of spiritual discipline one does need at some point
                  to
                  > >commit......and sit.
                  > >May All Beings Be Happy.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  >
                  ><http://rd.yahoo.com/M=259395.3614674.4902533.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1
                  707624710:HM/A=1524963/R=0/SIG=12o885gmo/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-
                  bin/autoredir?
                  camp=556&lineid=3614674&prop=egroupweb&pos=HM>1890b43.jpg
                  > >
                  > >1890ba1.jpg
                  > >
                  > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                  > >Buddhism_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                  > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                • Diane Glasby
                  I wasn t actually the one who wrote that. But I know it s hard to keep track of the original posts and the responses! ... From: CLEOCATRAs@aol.com To:
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 13, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I wasn't actually the one who wrote that. But I know it's hard to keep track of the original posts and the responses!
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 12:34 AM
                    Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Digest Number 121

                    In a message dated 10/12/2003 9:38:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dglasby@... writes:


                    I would humbly suggest though that all should avoid the "spititual shopping" or "dabbling" syndrome very common here with us western seekers.
                    It is very good to explore, learn, and understand many different spiritual disciplines......but eventually we need to...as it is said ...."Take the one seat."
                    Doesn't matter which seat you choose.......but in order to progress deeply along a path of spiritual discipline one does need at some point to commit......and sit.
                    May All Beings Be Happy.


                    I believe one should dabble to their heart's content. When they are done dabbling they will rest in their own formation of being close to their spiritual self. Not a thing wrong with it if your inner self tells you and you are listening closely. Bhudda found the truth by listening to what is within. It doesnt matter how you get there, just that you eventually do...

                    Cat


                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    Buddhism_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  • dzogchenstudent@xemaps.com
                    ... I believe in God and I practice Buddhism and, so far, I have not encountered any conflicts but you could be quite right, my beliefs may not survive it s
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 13, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      >
                      >I would venture to say do not mistake the finger pointing for the
                      >thing itself. One can use buddhist technics sucsessfully in other
                      >formats, and I would endorse sitting or visualization in a christian
                      >context, but this does not make them buddhist. How can one find the
                      >idea of an exclusive salvation, eternal soul or a creator god
                      >compatable with the buddhist view of phenomena, or the ethics of
                      >compassion when one must accept the idea of a philanthropic person
                      >suffering eternal damnation and punishment, who in spreading good to
                      >all men fails merely to accept Jesus Christ as his savior? Combining
                      >the two is not buddhism but some religious chimera, a deformed
                      >ideology that cannot survive its flaws.
                      >
                      >Drudche


                      I believe in God and I practice Buddhism and, so far, I have not
                      encountered any conflicts but you could be quite right, my beliefs may not
                      survive it's flaws. Ultimately "beliefs" aren't really held by Buddhists
                      (so I'm told) ......................so at some point I may not believe in
                      anything and may come to have the exact same mindset that you have
                      now. one never knows do one? :-) rookielynn





                      >--- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, dzogchenstudent@x wrote:
                      > > Hi Diane,
                      > >
                      > > I respectfully submit that you should give up absolutely nothing in
                      >any
                      > > pursuit of religion (packaged or piecemeal). One of the things
                      >about
                      > > Buddhism that attracted me (aside from the very rightness of the 4
                      >noble
                      > > truths and the 8 fold path) is the Kalama sutra.
                      > >
                      > > In that sutra the Buddha said, basically, "try what I am
                      >saying...put it
                      > > into practice and see if what I say is true and of benefit. If it
                      >proves
                      > > not to be true or beneficial....then discard it".
                      > >
                      > > Irrespective of what anyone says, I know practicing Catholics that
                      >also
                      > > practice Buddhism. I know mensa calibre bio genetic engineers that
                      >are
                      > > Buddhists. Neither of them has seen fit to discard their beliefs
                      >in God or
                      > > their beliefs in science.
                      > >
                      > > Nothing in life (either illusory or otherwise) is worth tossing out
                      >the
                      > > window without something of equal or greater value with which to
                      >replace
                      > > it. Commit to nothing that you do not regard as worth the
                      >committment....
                      > > Sorry.................just my worthless 2 cents....rookielynn
                      > >
                      > > It's not that I disagree, but I'm not sure I can "commit" to a
                      >spiritual
                      > > path. I've been influenced in so many ways (science, philosophy,
                      > > psychology), that I can't check all my other baggage at the door.
                      >I can't
                      > > disregard things I know about physics or Existentialism just
                      >because I want
                      > > to pursue a "path". Religion may be a package deal, but it's hard
                      >to *make*
                      > > yourself accept a teaching that you genuinely don't believe. But
                      >I'd be
                      > > interested to hear what others do when they run into Buddhist
                      >concept that
                      > > just seems wrong or improbable. Do you just overlook it, decide to
                      >deal
                      > > with it at another time?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >I would humbly suggest though that all should avoid the "spititual
                      > > >shopping" or "dabbling" syndrome very common here with us western
                      >seekers.
                      > > >It is very good to explore, learn, and understand many different
                      >spiritual
                      > > >disciplines......but eventually we need to...as it is
                      >said ...."Take the
                      > > >one seat."
                      > > >Doesn't matter which seat you choose.......but in order to
                      >progress deeply
                      > > >along a path of spiritual discipline one does need at some point
                      >to
                      > > >commit......and sit.
                      > > >May All Beings Be Happy.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > >
                      > ><http://rd.yahoo.com/M=259395.3614674.4902533.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1
                      >707624710:HM/A=1524963/R=0/SIG=12o885gmo/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-
                      >bin/autoredir?
                      >camp=556&lineid=3614674&prop=egroupweb&pos=HM>1890b43.jpg
                      > > >
                      > > >1890ba1.jpg
                      > > >
                      > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > >Buddhism_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                      > > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      >Buddhism_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    • Oelund Fairking
                      ...or you could find yourself totally in a god-centered philosophy, which is not necessarily a bad thing either. I think of my nephew and his meth habit, the
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 13, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        ...or you could find yourself totally in a god-centered philosophy,
                        which is not necessarily a bad thing either. I think of my nephew
                        and his meth habit, the years of meth runs, paranoia and all the
                        acutaments that go with that lifestyle, and of his conversion to
                        Christianity, the clarity, ambition and hope he now has. Perhaps
                        Christianity was the only vehicle fit for him to find liberation from
                        his drug habits and healing of the emotional issues that led him to
                        self-destructive behavior. I do not think other traditions are not
                        without their value, and I also feel there are many levels of
                        liberation a person must go through before they are ready for the
                        realization of the ultimate liberation from the cycle of life and
                        death. All these differing religions and philosophies are not without
                        their means to liberate in some capacity. My feeling is all sentience
                        arrives at the threshold of ultimate liberation. It does not matter
                        when, and that which come to fruition now is certainly not any more
                        superior than that which come to fruition later. my fig tree has been
                        producing fruit since this summer, and the fruit I ate yesterday was
                        just as sweet as the one I ate in July.

                        Drudche







                        --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, dzogchenstudent@x wrote:
                        > >
                        > >I would venture to say do not mistake the finger pointing for the
                        > >thing itself. One can use buddhist technics sucsessfully in other
                        > >formats, and I would endorse sitting or visualization in a
                        christian
                        > >context, but this does not make them buddhist. How can one find the
                        > >idea of an exclusive salvation, eternal soul or a creator god
                        > >compatable with the buddhist view of phenomena, or the ethics of
                        > >compassion when one must accept the idea of a philanthropic person
                        > >suffering eternal damnation and punishment, who in spreading good
                        to
                        > >all men fails merely to accept Jesus Christ as his savior?
                        Combining
                        > >the two is not buddhism but some religious chimera, a deformed
                        > >ideology that cannot survive its flaws.
                        > >
                        > >Drudche
                        >
                        >
                        > I believe in God and I practice Buddhism and, so far, I have not
                        > encountered any conflicts but you could be quite right, my beliefs
                        may not
                        > survive it's flaws. Ultimately "beliefs" aren't really held by
                        Buddhists
                        > (so I'm told) ......................so at some point I may not
                        believe in
                        > anything and may come to have the exact same mindset that you have
                        > now. one never knows do one? :-) rookielynn
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > >--- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, dzogchenstudent@x wrote:
                        > > > Hi Diane,
                        > > >
                        > > > I respectfully submit that you should give up absolutely
                        nothing in
                        > >any
                        > > > pursuit of religion (packaged or piecemeal). One of the things
                        > >about
                        > > > Buddhism that attracted me (aside from the very rightness of
                        the 4
                        > >noble
                        > > > truths and the 8 fold path) is the Kalama sutra.
                        > > >
                        > > > In that sutra the Buddha said, basically, "try what I am
                        > >saying...put it
                        > > > into practice and see if what I say is true and of benefit. If
                        it
                        > >proves
                        > > > not to be true or beneficial....then discard it".
                        > > >
                        > > > Irrespective of what anyone says, I know practicing Catholics
                        that
                        > >also
                        > > > practice Buddhism. I know mensa calibre bio genetic engineers
                        that
                        > >are
                        > > > Buddhists. Neither of them has seen fit to discard their
                        beliefs
                        > >in God or
                        > > > their beliefs in science.
                        > > >
                        > > > Nothing in life (either illusory or otherwise) is worth tossing
                        out
                        > >the
                        > > > window without something of equal or greater value with which to
                        > >replace
                        > > > it. Commit to nothing that you do not regard as worth the
                        > >committment....
                        > > > Sorry.................just my worthless 2 cents....rookielynn
                        > > >
                        > > > It's not that I disagree, but I'm not sure I can "commit" to a
                        > >spiritual
                        > > > path. I've been influenced in so many ways (science,
                        philosophy,
                        > > > psychology), that I can't check all my other baggage at the
                        door.
                        > >I can't
                        > > > disregard things I know about physics or Existentialism just
                        > >because I want
                        > > > to pursue a "path". Religion may be a package deal, but it's
                        hard
                        > >to *make*
                        > > > yourself accept a teaching that you genuinely don't believe. But
                        > >I'd be
                        > > > interested to hear what others do when they run into Buddhist
                        > >concept that
                        > > > just seems wrong or improbable. Do you just overlook it, decide
                        to
                        > >deal
                        > > > with it at another time?
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >I would humbly suggest though that all should avoid
                        the "spititual
                        > > > >shopping" or "dabbling" syndrome very common here with us
                        western
                        > >seekers.
                        > > > >It is very good to explore, learn, and understand many
                        different
                        > >spiritual
                        > > > >disciplines......but eventually we need to...as it is
                        > >said ...."Take the
                        > > > >one seat."
                        > > > >Doesn't matter which seat you choose.......but in order to
                        > >progress deeply
                        > > > >along a path of spiritual discipline one does need at some
                        point
                        > >to
                        > > > >commit......and sit.
                        > > > >May All Beings Be Happy.
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                        > > >
                        > >
                        ><http://rd.yahoo.com/M=259395.3614674.4902533.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1
                        >
                        >707624710:HM/A=1524963/R=0/SIG=12o885gmo/*http://hits.411web.com/cgi-
                        > >bin/autoredir?
                        > >camp=556&lineid=3614674&prop=egroupweb&pos=HM>1890b43.jpg
                        > > > >
                        > > > >1890ba1.jpg
                        > > > >
                        > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > > > >Buddhism_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                        > > > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > >Buddhism_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.