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  • Oelund Fairking
    Thank you for both your response and your candor. It seems for the most part we are on common grounds. One thing I respect most with Buddhism is it doesn t
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 12, 2003
      Thank you for both your response and your candor. It seems for the
      most part we are on common grounds. One thing I respect most with
      Buddhism is it doesn't tout itself as a substitute for the human
      condition, and no matter what your path, ultimately you have to do
      battle with your own inner poison. Personally I feel fortunate as a
      Pure land Buddhist and truly feel it is the veracity of the path to
      Buddha through the vehicle of faith that has shaped whatever events
      necessary in my life to shake me loose from some of my addiction to
      being angry.

      The other thing I appreciate about Buddhism is it cannot be truly
      expressed in dogmatism, and evaluates the correct response to each
      situation by its own unique character. Several years ago I found a
      teenager on my doorstep, wanting to know if he could stay with me for
      a couple of days. I hadn't seen him since he was 12 (he was 16 at the
      time of this); he was in the system, being a youth offender and a
      foster child several times over, emotionally disturbed and acting
      out. I told him yes, but only under the condition he inform his
      parents of his whereabouts, and let me assure them it was fine for
      him to have some down time here. He was reluctant to have me contact
      his parents, but I called, because I had been taught it was "the
      right thing to do"-my son was Hank's age, and I felt it was tough
      enough to parent without individuals aiding interfere with my
      custodial oversight. Hank, being a ward of the court there were also
      the legal issue in harboring him. His father arrived unexpectedly to
      take him home; upon meeting him I understood what Hank had been
      running from, and understood that I had just delivered that child
      into a new bout with misery. If I had paid attention to the event,
      to Hank's body language and demeanor and not his history; if I had
      put compassion above procedure, I would have known the legitimacy of
      his need and recognized it as being far more important than upholding
      my book of rules. If I had it to do again, I would have harbored him
      for the next twenty years, if necessary, to hide him from that
      monster and the system that kept him there. That would have been the
      correct response. It has given me a profound respect for the
      importance of acting on a situation out of an intuitive knowledge of
      it and not from the blindness of ready-made answers.

      Drudche
    • dzogchenstudent@xemaps.com
      Hi Drudche and all, Your response regarding the boy wanting refuge has struck a chord with me. As I am on several Buddhist lists (and have been for awhile) I
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 12, 2003
        Hi Drudche and all,

        Your response regarding the boy wanting refuge has struck a chord with
        me. As I am on several Buddhist lists (and have been for awhile) I have
        made an attempt to get a "real world" response to a generally related
        question to no avail.

        We are supposed to be compassionate. It's a nice word and I've heard lots
        of people talk about the word and the idea in theoretical terms, replete
        with appropriate suttras and/or quotes from a Master/Roshi/Lama but no
        talking in real world terms until your post.

        What I particularly respect in your post is that you have made a decision
        based on your understanding of "the right thing to do" and I think the 8
        fold path is rather encouraging the individual to apply the principles to
        the best of his/her ability.....without any need for in depth analysis and
        after the fact coaching.

        I have no problems with obvious acts of compassion but it's the subtler
        ones such as you describe where you have to weigh several things
        simultaneously to come up with an answer. I have two very different
        situations, one hostile, one blocked. I am avoiding the hostile one
        because I keep involving my ego in the process (if she acts as usual, I get
        my ego hurt....and if, as I fantasize, I can assist her in some sort of
        realization that will help her...I don't get my ego hurt but I get my ego
        built up in a savior mode) and I am timid on the other one because the gal
        has a VERY CLOSED DOOR to anything that isn't fundamentalist Christian.
        BTW, proselytizing is not the agenda in either case.......but it would be
        nice to help them get a better gripe on how they hurt themselves.

        So, what is a practicing Buddhist's obligation with respect to acts of
        compassion? I could help little old ladies across the street without any
        difficulty but I'm thinking that real compassion begins with self and
        spreads out to the real individuals you meet everyday. After all, in some
        sense, there may be karmic reasons why certain people are around
        you....maybe you have something to learn....or maybe you have something to
        teach....or both!!! I would really appreciate any thoughts or exp. you all
        have with compassion.......which in theory is pretty simple but I think in
        reality tends to get either complex, sticky, difficult (how far to go
        without coming off like a Buddhist crusader :-) and maybe you should just
        react in each situation when it arises without analyzing at all in
        advance. vbg...you can tell I'm a little confused on the subject....TIA
        rookielynn

        Thank you for both your response and your candor. It seems for the
        >most part we are on common grounds. One thing I respect most with
        >Buddhism is it doesn't tout itself as a substitute for the human
        >condition, and no matter what your path, ultimately you have to do
        >battle with your own inner poison. Personally I feel fortunate as a
        >Pure land Buddhist and truly feel it is the veracity of the path to
        >Buddha through the vehicle of faith that has shaped whatever events
        >necessary in my life to shake me loose from some of my addiction to
        >being angry.
        >
        >The other thing I appreciate about Buddhism is it cannot be truly
        >expressed in dogmatism, and evaluates the correct response to each
        >situation by its own unique character. Several years ago I found a
        >teenager on my doorstep, wanting to know if he could stay with me for
        >a couple of days. I hadn't seen him since he was 12 (he was 16 at the
        >time of this); he was in the system, being a youth offender and a
        >foster child several times over, emotionally disturbed and acting
        >out. I told him yes, but only under the condition he inform his
        >parents of his whereabouts, and let me assure them it was fine for
        >him to have some down time here. He was reluctant to have me contact
        >his parents, but I called, because I had been taught it was "the
        >right thing to do"-my son was Hank's age, and I felt it was tough
        >enough to parent without individuals aiding interfere with my
        >custodial oversight. Hank, being a ward of the court there were also
        >the legal issue in harboring him. His father arrived unexpectedly to
        >take him home; upon meeting him I understood what Hank had been
        >running from, and understood that I had just delivered that child
        >into a new bout with misery. If I had paid attention to the event,
        >to Hank's body language and demeanor and not his history; if I had
        >put compassion above procedure, I would have known the legitimacy of
        >his need and recognized it as being far more important than upholding
        >my book of rules. If I had it to do again, I would have harbored him
        >for the next twenty years, if necessary, to hide him from that
        >monster and the system that kept him there. That would have been the
        >correct response. It has given me a profound respect for the
        >importance of acting on a situation out of an intuitive knowledge of
        >it and not from the blindness of ready-made answers.
        >
        >Drudche
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        >Buddhism_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Oelund Fairking
        I think the question you ask is, what does a compassionate act LOOK LIKE. That is always the problem, because the truth is that a compassionate act might very
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 13, 2003
          I think the question you ask is, what does a compassionate act LOOK
          LIKE. That is always the problem, because the truth is that a
          compassionate act might very well be helping an old lady across the
          street but could just as easily be slapping her for wanting to cross
          in the first place, for all I know. That is why Zen in particular
          trains for being "in the moment". If one is truely "there" one gains
          knowlege with their entire being, which includes intuitive
          understanding, which is intimate and instantaneous, which leads to
          the appropiate response, given one grounds their response in
          selflessness, which is the grounds of compassion. The foundation of
          martial arts is also in this moment awareness. Again, the "right
          thing" is not necessarily a formula or a stereotype-at least this has
          been my experience.

          Drudche









          --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, dzogchenstudent@x wrote:
          > Hi Drudche and all,
          >
          > Your response regarding the boy wanting refuge has struck a chord
          with
          > me. As I am on several Buddhist lists (and have been for awhile) I
          have
          > made an attempt to get a "real world" response to a generally
          related
          > question to no avail.
          >
          > We are supposed to be compassionate. It's a nice word and I've
          heard lots
          > of people talk about the word and the idea in theoretical terms,
          replete
          > with appropriate suttras and/or quotes from a Master/Roshi/Lama
          but no
          > talking in real world terms until your post.
          >
          > What I particularly respect in your post is that you have made a
          decision
          > based on your understanding of "the right thing to do" and I think
          the 8
          > fold path is rather encouraging the individual to apply the
          principles to
          > the best of his/her ability.....without any need for in depth
          analysis and
          > after the fact coaching.
          >
          > I have no problems with obvious acts of compassion but it's the
          subtler
          > ones such as you describe where you have to weigh several things
          > simultaneously to come up with an answer. I have two very
          different
          > situations, one hostile, one blocked. I am avoiding the hostile
          one
          > because I keep involving my ego in the process (if she acts as
          usual, I get
          > my ego hurt....and if, as I fantasize, I can assist her in some
          sort of
          > realization that will help her...I don't get my ego hurt but I get
          my ego
          > built up in a savior mode) and I am timid on the other one because
          the gal
          > has a VERY CLOSED DOOR to anything that isn't fundamentalist
          Christian.
          > BTW, proselytizing is not the agenda in either case.......but it
          would be
          > nice to help them get a better gripe on how they hurt themselves.
          >
          > So, what is a practicing Buddhist's obligation with respect to acts
          of
          > compassion? I could help little old ladies across the street
          without any
          > difficulty but I'm thinking that real compassion begins with self
          and
          > spreads out to the real individuals you meet everyday. After all,
          in some
          > sense, there may be karmic reasons why certain people are around
          > you....maybe you have something to learn....or maybe you have
          something to
          > teach....or both!!! I would really appreciate any thoughts or exp.
          you all
          > have with compassion.......which in theory is pretty simple but I
          think in
          > reality tends to get either complex, sticky, difficult (how far to
          go
          > without coming off like a Buddhist crusader :-) and maybe you
          should just
          > react in each situation when it arises without analyzing at all in
          > advance. vbg...you can tell I'm a little confused on the
          subject....TIA
          > rookielynn
          >
          > Thank you for both your response and your candor. It seems for the
          > >most part we are on common grounds. One thing I respect most with
          > >Buddhism is it doesn't tout itself as a substitute for the human
          > >condition, and no matter what your path, ultimately you have to do
          > >battle with your own inner poison. Personally I feel fortunate as a
          > >Pure land Buddhist and truly feel it is the veracity of the path to
          > >Buddha through the vehicle of faith that has shaped whatever events
          > >necessary in my life to shake me loose from some of my addiction to
          > >being angry.
          > >
          > >The other thing I appreciate about Buddhism is it cannot be truly
          > >expressed in dogmatism, and evaluates the correct response to each
          > >situation by its own unique character. Several years ago I found a
          > >teenager on my doorstep, wanting to know if he could stay with me
          for
          > >a couple of days. I hadn't seen him since he was 12 (he was 16 at
          the
          > >time of this); he was in the system, being a youth offender and a
          > >foster child several times over, emotionally disturbed and acting
          > >out. I told him yes, but only under the condition he inform his
          > >parents of his whereabouts, and let me assure them it was fine for
          > >him to have some down time here. He was reluctant to have me
          contact
          > >his parents, but I called, because I had been taught it was "the
          > >right thing to do"-my son was Hank's age, and I felt it was tough
          > >enough to parent without individuals aiding interfere with my
          > >custodial oversight. Hank, being a ward of the court there were
          also
          > >the legal issue in harboring him. His father arrived unexpectedly
          to
          > >take him home; upon meeting him I understood what Hank had been
          > >running from, and understood that I had just delivered that child
          > >into a new bout with misery. If I had paid attention to the event,
          > >to Hank's body language and demeanor and not his history; if I had
          > >put compassion above procedure, I would have known the legitimacy
          of
          > >his need and recognized it as being far more important than
          upholding
          > >my book of rules. If I had it to do again, I would have harbored
          him
          > >for the next twenty years, if necessary, to hide him from that
          > >monster and the system that kept him there. That would have been
          the
          > >correct response. It has given me a profound respect for the
          > >importance of acting on a situation out of an intuitive knowledge
          of
          > >it and not from the blindness of ready-made answers.
          > >
          > >Drudche
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > >Buddhism_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Karen
          This is an interesting question. What is compassion? I think that truly depends on the situation. I used to live in NYC and rode the subways most days.
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 18, 2003
            This is an interesting question.  What is compassion?  I think that truly depends on the situation.  I used to live in NYC and rode the subways most days.  There are a lot of people begging money and food on the train.  I tried to make it a point to not give money to those who appeared to be addicts (not that I could really tell) but one day gave to a man who was obviously one.  He was on his knees pleading for money.  I realize he probably spent the dollar I gave him on his drug of choice, but I also realize I gave him some relief.  Yes, I only enabled his addiction further, but being as I could not help him get off drugs, I as least gave him a moment of relief.  I honestly felt this to be the right thing to do in this situation.  Many times I fall short on compassion but I try everyday to be as compassionate as I can.
             
            Namaste'
            Karen


            "Existence needs you. Without you something will be missing in existence and nobody can replace it."  Osho


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          • Sally Kirkham
            Recently, I have changed my attitude to addition and compassion. My ex is showing himself to be an alcoholic (I m stunned I never realised before actually but
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 19, 2003
              Recently, I have changed my attitude to addition and compassion.  My ex is showing himself to be an alcoholic (I'm stunned I never realised before actually but there you go) and I am refusing to drink with him, to further enable him to believe that his intake and need for this substance is normal.  Oddly, our daughter was the first to notice and refuses to visit with him when he has drunk, which I have supported her in, because he clearly worries her.
               
              I guess, from my point of view, while I have compassion for his desire to drink, I can see more that I help really by refusing to accept his version of reality, which is that everyone drinks as much as him and it is normal. 
               
              It is a hard choice, sometimes, to be the right type of compassionate :)
               
              Sally
            • walkernikki18
              Thanks for the advice for links and files. could anyone advice me on diet, I am basically vegetarian any further advice would be good. Also could you help me
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 6, 2012
                Thanks for the advice for links and files. could anyone advice me on diet, I am basically vegetarian any further advice would be good. Also could you help me with home shrines and what is important. I realise that the buddha should be higher than your head, but what else needs to be on the shrine , and the eight fold path, is that a thing that is good to do every day.
                thank you nikki
              • Nikki
                Hi In response to your post. I am also in a situation of taking in my son s girlfriend away from an abusive situation. The difference for me is that she is 18
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 8, 2012
                  Hi
                  In response to your post. I am also in a situation of taking in my son's girlfriend away from an abusive situation. The difference for me is that she is 18 so I feel being an adult she doesn't need to let her mother know where she is. I think your act of kindness takes you down the path that you would like to follow, and although maybe being aware of his demeaner and not his history,to offer him a place within your home, was the path you are wanting to be, following the buddha way,although trying, it doesn't make us perfect. I admire your act of kindness.
                  nikki
                  --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, "Oelund Fairking" <Chitakwa@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thank you for both your response and your candor. It seems for the
                  > most part we are on common grounds. One thing I respect most with
                  > Buddhism is it doesn't tout itself as a substitute for the human
                  > condition, and no matter what your path, ultimately you have to do
                  > battle with your own inner poison. Personally I feel fortunate as a
                  > Pure land Buddhist and truly feel it is the veracity of the path to
                  > Buddha through the vehicle of faith that has shaped whatever events
                  > necessary in my life to shake me loose from some of my addiction to
                  > being angry.
                  >
                  > The other thing I appreciate about Buddhism is it cannot be truly
                  > expressed in dogmatism, and evaluates the correct response to each
                  > situation by its own unique character. Several years ago I found a
                  > teenager on my doorstep, wanting to know if he could stay with me for
                  > a couple of days. I hadn't seen him since he was 12 (he was 16 at the
                  > time of this); he was in the system, being a youth offender and a
                  > foster child several times over, emotionally disturbed and acting
                  > out. I told him yes, but only under the condition he inform his
                  > parents of his whereabouts, and let me assure them it was fine for
                  > him to have some down time here. He was reluctant to have me contact
                  > his parents, but I called, because I had been taught it was "the
                  > right thing to do"-my son was Hank's age, and I felt it was tough
                  > enough to parent without individuals aiding interfere with my
                  > custodial oversight. Hank, being a ward of the court there were also
                  > the legal issue in harboring him. His father arrived unexpectedly to
                  > take him home; upon meeting him I understood what Hank had been
                  > running from, and understood that I had just delivered that child
                  > into a new bout with misery. If I had paid attention to the event,
                  > to Hank's body language and demeanor and not his history; if I had
                  > put compassion above procedure, I would have known the legitimacy of
                  > his need and recognized it as being far more important than upholding
                  > my book of rules. If I had it to do again, I would have harbored him
                  > for the next twenty years, if necessary, to hide him from that
                  > monster and the system that kept him there. That would have been the
                  > correct response. It has given me a profound respect for the
                  > importance of acting on a situation out of an intuitive knowledge of
                  > it and not from the blindness of ready-made answers.
                  >
                  > Drudche
                  >
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