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Re: Rabbits and Love

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  • catgirl
    I m a fairly new member, though I ve always just lurked and learned as I am very new to Buddhism. I m just now learning and have joined a local group in my
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 29, 2004
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      I'm a fairly new member, though I've always just lurked and learned as I
      am very new to Buddhism. I'm just now learning and have joined a local
      group in my city where we are taking classes on Beginning Buddhism.
      Regarding the post on rabbits, I have a question regarding the Buddhist
      teaching of not to kill beings. I have no problem with this in general
      and am a vegetarian. However, I also am deeply involved with animals
      and do animal rescue, hence I run across fleas and ticks. How is the
      Buddhist thinking on such creatures? I admit to killing them if I find
      them; they bring disease and of course misery to my animals. Even
      putting on flea repellents kills them. If I were not to kill them, they
      could in turn kill my animals through disease and anemia. So what is a
      Buddhist to do?

      Regarding love, I had this very question in my practice group and the
      answer was that we love and feel the same compassion for everyone.
      Feeling a "deeper" love towards particular sentient beings is
      attachment, which does lead to suffering. Not saying I have an answer
      here in the case of spouses, family, and even my animals, but just the
      teaching as I understand it.
      As a beginner I admit I still suffer from attachment and ego, so as I
      learn and go down the path I hope to rid myself of both of these, though
      at the moment it is a hard concept to "get my head around".

      Tamara
      NC, USA

      Please help the homeless
      Low Cost Spay/Neuter Clinic
      2780 W.Mountain St, Kernersville, NC
      336-723-7550
    • vorian@mail.com
      Tamara, These are things that must be done for the wellfare of the animals you are helping. When doing the work, just do it with the pain in your heart that
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 30, 2004
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        Tamara,
        These are things that must be done for the wellfare of the animals you are helping. When doing the work, just do it with the pain in your heart that you are destroying beings, but also the knowledge that you are helping others. It is a difficult conundrum, but I think you are doing the correct thing.
        namaste,
        Ken/
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "catgirl" <savepaws@...>
        Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 17:26:48 -0400
        To: "Buddhism101" <Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [Buddhism_101] Re: Rabbits and Love

        > I'm a fairly new member, though I've always just lurked and learned as I
        > am very new to Buddhism. I'm just now learning and have joined a local
        > group in my city where we are taking classes on Beginning Buddhism.
        > Regarding the post on rabbits, I have a question regarding the Buddhist
        > teaching of not to kill beings. I have no problem with this in general
        > and am a vegetarian. However, I also am deeply involved with animals
        > and do animal rescue, hence I run across fleas and ticks. How is the
        > Buddhist thinking on such creatures? I admit to killing them if I find
        > them; they bring disease and of course misery to my animals. Even
        > putting on flea repellents kills them. If I were not to kill them, they
        > could in turn kill my animals through disease and anemia. So what is a
        > Buddhist to do?
        >
        > Regarding love, I had this very question in my practice group and the
        > answer was that we love and feel the same compassion for everyone.
        > Feeling a "deeper" love towards particular sentient beings is
        > attachment, which does lead to suffering. Not saying I have an answer
        > here in the case of spouses, family, and even my animals, but just the
        > teaching as I understand it.
        > As a beginner I admit I still suffer from attachment and ego, so as I
        > learn and go down the path I hope to rid myself of both of these, though
        > at the moment it is a hard concept to "get my head around".
        >
        > Tamara
        > NC, USA
        >
        > Please help the homeless
        > Low Cost Spay/Neuter Clinic
        > 2780 W.Mountain St, Kernersville, NC
        > 336-723-7550
        >



        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
        Accept my words only when you have examined them for yourselves; do not accept them simply because of the reverence you have for me. Those who only have faith in me and affection for me will not find the final freedom. But those who have faith in the truth and are determined on the path, they will find awakening.

        -Majjhima Nikaya-
      • Diana
        Dear Tamara and all Sangha, This is all just my opinion, based on where I am at this point in my practice. Love and attachment to particular beings - it has
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 30, 2004
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          Dear Tamara and all Sangha,

          This is all just my opinion, based on where I am at
          this point in my practice. Love and attachment to
          particular beings - it has helped to remind myself of
          my commitment to all sentient beings as a Buddhist -
          and that the beloved one is one of those sentient
          beings. I remind myself to avoid harming this person
          and to be of benefit to this person, to have love and
          compassion in thoughts, speech and actions. The
          Buddhist teaching of impermanence also helps in
          relationships. Even though you are with someone a
          long time, the relationship changes, often in a day
          from love to anger back to love again. Relationships
          are great ground for practice!

          Our expectations in a relationship are usually based
          on ego and attachment. Do you let yourself get
          mistreated? No, that is idiot compassion, and
          actually is ego based as well! Remember you are also
          one of those precious sentient beings.

          I understand the flea thing. I don't think there is
          any perfection on never taking any kind of life;
          because of our body/mind and its needs, it happens.
          We can strive to lessen the harm we do by mindfulness
          and awareness. Wish that the fleas you kill have a
          good rebirth. I am grateful for the new flea
          medications that work effectively enough that fleas
          stop producing on the animal, reducing the number of
          fleas you end up killing.

          Before working hard to get rid of ego and attachment,
          spend time getting to know them, to see them when they
          arise. Often when we see them arising, we can remind
          ourselves of the four immeasurables, found in one
          brief and beautiful prayer:

          May all sentient beings have happiness and its'
          causes,
          May all sentient beings be free of suffering and its'
          causes,
          May all sentient beings never be separated from bliss
          without suffering,
          May all sentient beings be in equanimity, free of
          bias, attachment and anger.

          The Buddha taught the following to his son Rahula
          (from "Old path white clouds" by Thich Nhat Hahn):

          "Rahula, practice loving kindness to overcome anger.
          Loving kindness has the capacity to bring happiness to
          others without demanding anything in return.

          Practice compassion to overcome cruelty. Compassion
          has the capacity to remove the suffering of others
          without expecting anything in return.

          Practice sympathetic joy to overcome hatred.
          Sympathetic joy arises when one rejoices over the
          happiness of others and wishes others well-being and
          success.

          Practice non-attachment to overcome prejudice.
          Non-attachment is the way of looking at all things
          openly and equally. This is because that is. Myself
          and others are not separate. Do not reject one thing
          only to chase after another.

          I call these the four immeasurables. Practice them and
          you will become a refreshing source of vitality and
          happiness for others."

          So it seems we need reminders of the way we should be
          and practice those when ego and attachment arise,
          rather than struggling to get rid of ego and
          attachment. Buddhists who have practiced many, many
          years suffer from attachment and ego, and if
          successful in their practice they have come to know
          how to use this energy to transform it. Mindfulness
          and awareness are keys - because without them, our
          deluded mind successfully gets away with telling us
          our attachments are natural and true.

          Just a few thoughts,
          Take care,
          Diana

          --- catgirl <savepaws@...> wrote:
          > I'm a fairly new member, though I've always just
          > lurked and learned as I
          > am very new to Buddhism. I'm just now learning and
          > have joined a local
          > group in my city where we are taking classes on
          > Beginning Buddhism.
          > Regarding the post on rabbits, I have a question
          > regarding the Buddhist
          > teaching of not to kill beings. I have no problem
          > with this in general
          > and am a vegetarian. However, I also am deeply
          > involved with animals
          > and do animal rescue, hence I run across fleas and
          > ticks. How is the
          > Buddhist thinking on such creatures? I admit to
          > killing them if I find
          > them; they bring disease and of course misery to my
          > animals. Even
          > putting on flea repellents kills them. If I were
          > not to kill them, they
          > could in turn kill my animals through disease and
          > anemia. So what is a
          > Buddhist to do?
          >
          > Regarding love, I had this very question in my
          > practice group and the
          > answer was that we love and feel the same compassion
          > for everyone.
          > Feeling a "deeper" love towards particular sentient
          > beings is
          > attachment, which does lead to suffering. Not
          > saying I have an answer
          > here in the case of spouses, family, and even my
          > animals, but just the
          > teaching as I understand it.
          > As a beginner I admit I still suffer from attachment
          > and ego, so as I
          > learn and go down the path I hope to rid myself of
          > both of these, though
          > at the moment it is a hard concept to "get my head
          > around".
          >
          > Tamara
          > NC, USA
          >
          > Please help the homeless
          > Low Cost Spay/Neuter Clinic
          > 2780 W.Mountain St, Kernersville, NC
          > 336-723-7550
          >
          >

          __________________________________________________
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          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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        • catgirl
          Diana, Thanks so much for your response; it is very helpful to a beginner and gives me something to study and practice. Especially about compassion stopping
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 1, 2004
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            Diana,
            Thanks so much for your response; it is very helpful to a beginner and
            gives me something to study and practice.
            Especially about compassion stopping cruelty. This is the reason that
            led me here and to studying Buddhism. My animal rescue work exposes me
            to a lot of human cruelty towards animals, and I was finding myself
            beginning to "hate" more and more humans. I did not like this happening
            to me. While I still abhor cruelty, I am learning to feel compassion
            towards the abuser as well as the abused. The abuser is in as much
            suffering as the abused usually.

            Tamara,
            NC, USA
            "Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop
            there is not enough.
            We have a higher mission - to be of service to them whenever they
            require it.
            If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter
            of compassion
            and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow
            men." -- St. Francis of Assisi
            ----- Original Message ----- From: Diana <monkette1@...>
            Subject: Re: Re: Rabbits and Love

            Dear Tamara and all Sangha,

            This is all just my opinion, based on where I am at
            this point in my practice. Love and attachment to
            particular beings - it has helped to remind myself of
            my commitment to all sentient beings as a Buddhist -
            and that the beloved one is one of those sentient
            beings. I remind myself to avoid harming this person
            and to be of benefit to this person, to have love and
            compassion in thoughts, speech and actions. The
            Buddhist teaching of impermanence also helps in
            relationships. Even though you are with someone a
            long time, the relationship changes, often in a day
            from love to anger back to love again. Relationships
            are great ground for practice!

            Our expectations in a relationship are usually based
            on ego and attachment. Do you let yourself get
            mistreated? No, that is idiot compassion, and
            actually is ego based as well! Remember you are also
            one of those precious sentient beings.

            I understand the flea thing. I don't think there is
            any perfection on never taking any kind of life;
            because of our body/mind and its needs, it happens.
            We can strive to lessen the harm we do by mindfulness
            and awareness. Wish that the fleas you kill have a
            good rebirth. I am grateful for the new flea
            medications that work effectively enough that fleas
            stop producing on the animal, reducing the number of
            fleas you end up killing.

            Before working hard to get rid of ego and attachment,
            spend time getting to know them, to see them when they
            arise. Often when we see them arising, we can remind
            ourselves of the four immeasurables, found in one
            brief and beautiful prayer:

            May all sentient beings have happiness and its'
            causes,
            May all sentient beings be free of suffering and its'
            causes,
            May all sentient beings never be separated from bliss
            without suffering,
            May all sentient beings be in equanimity, free of
            bias, attachment and anger.

            The Buddha taught the following to his son Rahula
            (from "Old path white clouds" by Thich Nhat Hahn):

            "Rahula, practice loving kindness to overcome anger.
            Loving kindness has the capacity to bring happiness to
            others without demanding anything in return.

            Practice compassion to overcome cruelty. Compassion
            has the capacity to remove the suffering of others
            without expecting anything in return.

            Practice sympathetic joy to overcome hatred.
            Sympathetic joy arises when one rejoices over the
            happiness of others and wishes others well-being and
            success.

            Practice non-attachment to overcome prejudice.
            Non-attachment is the way of looking at all things
            openly and equally. This is because that is. Myself
            and others are not separate. Do not reject one thing
            only to chase after another.

            I call these the four immeasurables. Practice them and
            you will become a refreshing source of vitality and
            happiness for others."

            So it seems we need reminders of the way we should be
            and practice those when ego and attachment arise,
            rather than struggling to get rid of ego and
            attachment. Buddhists who have practiced many, many
            years suffer from attachment and ego, and if
            successful in their practice they have come to know
            how to use this energy to transform it. Mindfulness
            and awareness are keys - because without them, our
            deluded mind successfully gets away with telling us
            our attachments are natural and true.
          • Ramona
            Thank you Monkette :) Thanks for sharing that beautiful prayer, and sharing your thoughts with us. Peace, Ramona ... Dear Tamara and all Sangha, This is all
            Message 5 of 5 , Jul 1, 2004
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              Thank you "Monkette" :)

              Thanks for sharing that beautiful prayer, and sharing your thoughts with
              us.
              Peace,
              Ramona
              --- Diana <monkette1@...> wrote:

              ---------------------------------
              Dear Tamara and all Sangha,

              This is all just my opinion, based on where I am at
              this point in my practice. Love and attachment to
              particular beings - it has helped to remind myself of
              my commitment to all sentient beings as a Buddhist -
              and that the beloved one is one of those sentient
              beings. I remind myself to avoid harming this person
              and to be of benefit to this person, to have love and
              compassion in thoughts, speech and actions. The
              Buddhist teaching of impermanence also helps in
              relationships. Even though you are with someone a
              long time, the relationship changes, often in a day
              from love to anger back to love again. Relationships
              are great ground for practice!

              Our expectations in a relationship are usually based
              on ego and attachment. Do you let yourself get
              mistreated? No, that is idiot compassion, and
              actually is ego based as well! Remember you are also
              one of those precious sentient beings.

              I understand the flea thing. I don't think there is
              any perfection on never taking any kind of life;
              because of our body/mind and its needs, it happens.
              We can strive to lessen the harm we do by mindfulness
              and awareness. Wish that the fleas you kill have a
              good rebirth. I am grateful for the new flea
              medications that work effectively enough that fleas
              stop producing on the animal, reducing the number of
              fleas you end up killing.

              Before working hard to get rid of ego and attachment,
              spend time getting to know them, to see them when they
              arise. Often when we see them arising, we can remind
              ourselves of the four immeasurables, found in one
              brief and beautiful prayer:

              May all sentient beings have happiness and its'
              causes,
              May all sentient beings be free of suffering and its'
              causes,
              May all sentient beings never be separated from bliss
              without suffering,
              May all sentient beings be in equanimity, free of
              bias, attachment and anger.

              The Buddha taught the following to his son Rahula
              (from "Old path white clouds" by Thich Nhat Hahn):

              "Rahula, practice loving kindness to overcome anger.
              Loving kindness has the capacity to bring happiness to
              others without demanding anything in return.

              Practice compassion to overcome cruelty. Compassion
              has the capacity to remove the suffering of others
              without expecting anything in return.

              Practice sympathetic joy to overcome hatred.
              Sympathetic joy arises when one rejoices over the
              happiness of others and wishes others well-being and
              success.

              Practice non-attachment to overcome prejudice.
              Non-attachment is the way of looking at all things
              openly and equally. This is because that is. Myself
              and others are not separate. Do not reject one thing
              only to chase after another.

              I call these the four immeasurables. Practice them and
              you will become a refreshing source of vitality and
              happiness for others."

              So it seems we need reminders of the way we should be
              and practice those when ego and attachment arise,
              rather than struggling to get rid of ego and
              attachment. Buddhists who have practiced many, many
              years suffer from attachment and ego, and if
              successful in their practice they have come to know
              how to use this energy to transform it. Mindfulness
              and awareness are keys - because without them, our
              deluded mind successfully gets away with telling us
              our attachments are natural and true.

              Just a few thoughts,
              Take care,
              Diana

              --- catgirl <savepaws@...> wrote:
              > I'm a fairly new member, though I've always just
              > lurked and learned as I
              > am very new to Buddhism. I'm just now learning and
              > have joined a local
              > group in my city where we are taking classes on
              > Beginning Buddhism.
              > Regarding the post on rabbits, I have a question
              > regarding the Buddhist
              > teaching of not to kill beings. I have no problem
              > with this in general
              > and am a vegetarian. However, I also am deeply
              > involved with animals
              > and do animal rescue, hence I run across fleas and
              > ticks. How is the
              > Buddhist thinking on such creatures? I admit to
              > killing them if I find
              > them; they bring disease and of course misery to my
              > animals. Even
              > putting on flea repellents kills them. If I were
              > not to kill them, they
              > could in turn kill my animals through disease and
              > anemia. So what is a
              > Buddhist to do?
              >
              > Regarding love, I had this very question in my
              > practice group and the
              > answer was that we love and feel the same compassion
              > for everyone.
              > Feeling a "deeper" love towards particular sentient
              > beings is
              > attachment, which does lead to suffering. Not
              > saying I have an answer
              > here in the case of spouses, family, and even my
              > animals, but just the
              > teaching as I understand it.
              > As a beginner I admit I still suffer from attachment
              > and ego, so as I
              > learn and go down the path I hope to rid myself of
              > both of these, though
              > at the moment it is a hard concept to "get my head
              > around".
              >
              > Tamara
              > NC, USA
              >
              > Please help the homeless
              > Low Cost Spay/Neuter Clinic
              > 2780 W.Mountain St, Kernersville, NC
              > 336-723-7550
              >
              >

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