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King Milindu (Menander I) & Arahanth Nagasena - II*

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  • Dhamma Group
    See Part 1 here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhamma/message/1875   King Milindu (Menander I) & Arahanth Nagasena (
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 13, 2012
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      King Milindu (Menander I) & Arahanth Nagasena
      King Milindu (Menander I) & Arahanth Nagasena


      King Milindu  went on to ask his second major question…..
       
      Venerable Sir, would the being born, would be the same person or a different person till he dies?
       
      Dear King, it would be neither the same person nor another person. At present you are a grown up. But it was you who was the baby too. A baby is born and a grown up dies. But both feels as the same person.
       
      Venerable Sir, please explain in a simile.
       
      Dear king, consider a lamp lit all night. The flame of this lamp changes with time; but all we feel is that it is the flame of the lamp we lit. The milk, milked would become curd after a day. Later, this curd would become butter. Similarly, a being would be born; and a different form of the being would die.
      Venerable Sir, if someone does not have a rebirth, does he know it ?  How does he know it?
       
      Dear king, if someone does not have a rebirth, he knows it. He knows that he would not have a rebirth since he has eliminated the ‘reason’ which cause a rebirth.
       
      Venerable Sir, please explain in a simile.
       
      If a farmer stops farming, he knows that his granary would not be filled with paddy since he doesn’t take action for it. Similarly, by eliminating craving passion for form/matter, sound, scent, taste & touch which cause a rebirth, make one attain Nirvana. He would never be born again.
       
      Venerable Sir, is insight and wisdom the same?
       
      Yes dear king, they are the same.
       
      Venerable Sir, could a person with insight be deceived?
       
      Sometimes he could be deceived and sometimes not. He could be mislead regarding the craft & technology he has not learnt, or the places he hasn’t been, or about things he had not heard before; but, not regarding the three marks of existence {Anicca(impermanence), Dukkha(suffering) & Anatta (non self)} which he has realized with his wisdom.
      Venerable Sir, what happens to the delusion of an Arahanth?
       
      Dear king, delusion vanishes with the birth of insight/wisdom; like a house in the darkness which is brightened by a lighted lamp.
                                                                                         
      Venerable Sir, if someone doesn’t have a rebirth (if he has attained Arahanthship), does he suffer with pain?
       
      Dear king, he would suffer physically, not mentally since he has not eliminated the reasons which cause physical suffering as the body is a result of a previous Karma.  Because he has eliminated lust, hatred & delusion, the reasons which cause mental suffering, his mind is liberated. He doesn’t suffer with mental pain.
       
      Venerable Sir, why don’t Arahanths depart this life if they suffer with physical pain?
       
      Dear King, even if they feel bodily pain the Arahanths don’t depart life till their life span is over. They have no interest or conflict with anybody. They are full of wisdom and do not commit suicide; but wait till their life span is over. That is why Arahanth Sariputhra, one of the two chief disciples of our great Buddha said that he, like a servant who serves a master without wages, would neither like to depart nor live on; but, wait for his life span to finish.
       
      Venerable Sir, what does conceive as the birth?
       
      Dear King, ‘Namarupa’  (psychological elements of the human person & physical body / Mentality & materiality) conceive as the birth. The body & mind we have at present would never be reborn. Because of the results of good and bad deeds (Karma Vipaka) which we have done using our mind and body, another ‘Namarupa’  (psychological elements of the human person & physical body) is conceived.
       
      Venerable Sir, since this body and mind doesn’t reborn, does one slip from his sins?
       
      Dear king, if he attains Arahanthship, he would be liberated from his sins; If not, he would be born again with his sins.
       
      Venerable Sir, please explain in a simile.
       
      A person robs mangoes from another. The owner of the mangoes catches the thief and brings him forward the king. If the thief says that he didn’t rob mangoes and took mangoes from a tree which was not planted by the owner, would he be freed?
       
      No, Venerable Sir.
       
      Similarly my dear king, if one does a good or a bad deed (Karma) using ‘Namarupa’  (psychological elements of the human person & physical body), it becomes the reason to conceive another ‘Namarupa’  (psychological elements of the human person & physical body) or a rebirth. Therefore, he isn’t liberated from his sins.
       
      Venerable Sir, what is ‘rupa’ and what is ‘nama’? Why do they generate together?
       
      Dear king, ‘Namarupa’  means mentality & materiality.                                                              Mentality (mind & thoughts) is ‘nama’. Materiality (the four great elements ‘Patavi’, ‘Apo’, ‘Thejo’, ‘Vayo’ which are transitory and the material form derived from them) is ‘Rupa’. ‘Nama’ and ‘rupa’ are linked together like flowers and their scent. They are born together. This phenomenon has been there for a long time.

      Source: http://www.thebuddhism.net/2012/11/26/king-milindu-menander-i-arahanth-nagasena/
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