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Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

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  • ken
    Hi, Stacie, Not being sufficiently enlightened to be able to speak from direct experience, I can only repeat what I ve read and heard from people more much
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 13 1:47 AM
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      Hi, Stacie,

      Not being sufficiently enlightened to be able to speak from direct
      experience, I can only repeat what I've read and heard from people more
      much more enlightened than myself. And this is that, yes, karma does
      play a role in a person's rebirth, that an accumulation of good karma
      leads to a good rebirth and, conversely, karma which is not as good
      leads to an inferior rebirth. "Good" and "bad" here include not just
      rebirths as humans, but a much wider range of beings.

      Wikipedia has a surprisingly good encapsulation of buddhist thought on
      karma <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_in_Buddhism#Karmic_results>
      and on what forms rebirth may take
      <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_realms>.

      "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying" by Sogyal Rinpoche and "Good Life
      Good Death" by Gehlek Rinpoche both discuss issues of karma and rebirth
      as do a number of others.


      hth,
      ken
    • Wan Wai Meng
      Dear Stacie, Sometimes people who are born into wealth it may not be good karma, as they become leeches and cannot do anything for themselves or achieve
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 13 3:50 AM
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        Dear Stacie,
        Sometimes people who are born into wealth it may not be good karma, as they become leeches and cannot do anything for themselves or achieve anything. My Lama Tsem Rinpoche had difficult childhood ( bad karma ) whereby there were obstacles for him to do dharma practice but it made him more determined and a lot of us are inspired by his journey.

        Rinpoche explained three types of karma in his talk , negative , positive and neutral
        http://www.kechara.com/articles_view.php?a=2010_10&p=76

        My understanding is neutral karma like washing car, eating , playing and most things we do in our daily life are pretty neutral neither  colored by good or bad motive , is the most dangerous karma to manifest for us, a state of perpetual everything is ok all the time, because neutral karma lulls us to think everything is alright and ok . 
        Wherelse negative karma manifests we feel the pain of it , which might get us to ask why ? is there a way to overcome and seek respite .

        :)
         Best Wishes
         Wai Meng




        From: STACIE HOGAN <hogandands@...>
        To: Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, April 13, 2010 4:50:44 AM
        Subject: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question





         I am new to Buddhism and like to read the posts in this group to help me learn and grow in my journey.  I have been thinking about karma lately and was wondering that if it was your karma that decided where you get placed as a human? 

        Example: If you have negative karmic reprecussions coming to you then you are born into a less than desirable family environment (ie. child abuse, drugs, alcohol, ect).  On the flip side if you have positive karma then you are born into a loving caring family.

        Stacie




      • Shenluck
        From my understanding of Karma (Not necessarily all from Buddhist Tradition), the biggest influence is in the moments just before you die and what your
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 13 10:51 AM
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          From my understanding of Karma (Not necessarily all from Buddhist Tradition), the biggest influence is in the moments just before you die and what your thoughts are at that time. If one has led a life filled with negative Karma then the thoughts at the moment of death will be so and will carry into the next life. Conversely if those thoughts are positive and God filled then that will be carried into the next life. One cannot cheat hear and lead a life of negative and then have positive thoughts at death as the last thoughts of the last second are not subject to the control of the id. Much of past Karma can be cleansed at that moment if one has either become awakened or has started on the path to enlightenment. So I do believe the answer would be yes.

          But the issue is Karma in itself. I have heard it said that whether the Karma be good or bad, what is the difference in that all Karma is binding. So whether you are bound to reincarnation with chains of iron or gold, you are still bound.

          To concern onself with the issue of good or bad Karma or how it will affect your next life is self defeating. Rather one should be more concerned with leading a life of no Karma, thus breaking its bonding influence. I believe this is what Buddha meant when talking with a disciple who was going to leave his teaching because Buddha had not taught him on God. Buddha stated that he had never promised such teachings, only to stop all suffering here in this life thus ending the never ending cycle of rebirth. I believe that the true measure of what Buddha was trying to convey, was to live the life that is not influenced by Karma or eliminates Karmic bonds, both good and bad thus reaching nirvana.

          I guess the point I am trying to make is that what you think about is what is going to happen. If one constantly worries about good or bad karma, good or bad is not the issue but karma is. So as one concentrates on this, on becomes chained to karma.

          I believe this has been said by many in so many ways. The simplist way to break the bonds of Karma is to .....DO NO HARM..... Of course this means in any thought, word, action to anything, anyone.

          I believe that if you Love God with all you mind and all your heart and all you strength and all you spirit and that you love your neighbor as self..... Well then you can only DO NO HARM.

          (Yes I puposely said self and not yourself. It is not the id but rather God within you to which we speak.)

          My biggest problem is rule number two there.

          These are my humble thoughts and understandings at this point of my journey.

          Peace, Love, Namaste




          --- In Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com, STACIE HOGAN <hogandands@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >  I am new to Buddhism and like to read the posts in this group to help me learn and grow in my journey.  I have been thinking about karma lately and was wondering that if it was your karma that decided where you get placed as a human? 
          >
          > Example: If you have negative karmic reprecussions coming to you then you are born into a less than desirable family environment (ie. child abuse, drugs, alcohol, ect).  On the flip side if you have positive karma then you are born into a loving caring family.
          >
          > Stacie
          >
        • Steven Levey
          Hello Jack, I think that your response here, regarding Karma as the neccesary means to growth, is very useful. I also agree that it is unwise to assign todays
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 21 5:03 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Jack,
                   I think that your response here, regarding Karma as the neccesary means to growth, is very useful. I also agree that it is unwise to assign todays burden (as we see them) to the past or past incarnations. Even though all karmas must have a seed from which they grow, to look for their source is some form of denial of the present condition, which needs to be dealt with as best one can today. I mean, because we are a continuous stream of existance, we know that through the notion of continuity, there is an aspect of us which is not dependent. But to look for where the negative (we think) came from in that stream is to use the positive awareness of our continuity in a negative way. I think that this must be cause an odd karma in itself. Just some thoughts. I think it is a kind of knee jerk reaction to our suffering, to look for its source, but I also think that we need to practice restraint of the "monkey mind" when this occurs.
             
            Steve
             

            To: Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com
            From: jack.j.frost@...
            Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 23:59:14 +0100
            Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

             
            I've read quite a bit about Karma, and come to the conclusion (in my not so humble opinion) that much of what is written may fall into the category of  "misguided misinformation" .

            While it may be easy to look at what you said and say, "oh well yes, this is obviously so", one can also take the opposite tack and say, "well, actually if anything it's the other way round".  

            What I would venture to suggest is - which situation gives a person the best opportunity for enlightenment?  A safe, warm cozy environment, or one where you have to fight for survival?  

            So my own personal view is, it is unwise to assign past life karma to current situations, as what may seem a bad situation could be indeed wonderful.   Was it Buddha (if not it was another vererated buddhist soul) that said "the best friends you will ever have are your enemies".  Why?  Because they bring out that within you which needs to change.

            And at the end of the day, one can take your question (and I mean no disrespect at all here) and say "does it matter"?

            I'm an alcoholic by the way, son of alcoholic parents.   These days I don't drink, and haven't for a few years now  :)   Without my crazy family of origin I don't think I would have had the impetus to learn what I have done, so to my parents, thank you.

            Jack.





            On 12/04/2010 21:50, STACIE HOGAN wrote:
             



             I am new to Buddhism and like to read the posts in this group to help me learn and grow in my journey.  I have been thinking about karma lately and was wondering that if it was your karma that decided where you get placed as a human? 

            Example: If you have negative karmic reprecussions coming to you then you are born into a less than desirable family environment (ie. child abuse, drugs, alcohol, ect).  On the flip side if you have positive karma then you are born into a loving caring family.

            Stacie





          • Sal Becker
            I believe Karma is neither good or bad, it just is. Depending on the circumstance, gravity can be either a positive or a negative. As a natural law on this
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 21 10:50 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              I believe Karma is neither good or bad, it just is. Depending on the circumstance, gravity can be either a positive or a negative. As a natural law on this plane of duality it can neither be denied nor rationalized away. We each come into each new conciousness with lessons we need to learn and to correct past mistakes. To deny the affect of karma to ones burden of today is to deny oneself the best measure of ones path to enlightenment. Are all burdens of today a cause of Karma, absolutely not. Living on this plane of duality has a reality of its own. I think tho that looking for the source of ones suffering and calling oneself a follower of Buddha are pretty much enclusive as this is the teaching of Buddha. To release oneself from rebirth into this plane of duality by removing all suffering (attachment) from ones life and to do that one must find the source of that suffering.
               
              Jack please forgive my bluntness and I do not want to trivialize your suffering and the journey you have traveled. To me you are no longer an alcoholic as you have transended that lesson. You are a son of God (yes it is true I am not a Buddhist put I am a big fan and the teachings bring so much to my life), you are "I Am". As I believe that no one is born a Sinner, how could you be. But to continue to bathe in the negative context of calling oneself a Sinner or an Alcoholic or any other label of this plane of duality, well it continues to give it power over you. "Resist not Temptation" is a thought here, in that thought gives it power.
               
              To rationalize and to refuse to accept  that a persons plight here in this reality could not be as a result of ones Karma, well the word folly comes to mind.......
               
              My most humbe thoughts I pray from God
               
              Namaste
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:03 AM
              Subject: RE: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

               

              Hello Jack,
                     I think that your response here, regarding Karma as the neccesary means to growth, is very useful. I also agree that it is unwise to assign todays burden (as we see them) to the past or past incarnations. Even though all karmas must have a seed from which they grow, to look for their source is some form of denial of the present condition, which needs to be dealt with as best one can today. I mean, because we are a continuous stream of existance, we know that through the notion of continuity, there is an aspect of us which is not dependent. But to look for where the negative (we think) came from in that stream is to use the positive awareness of our continuity in a negative way. I think that this must be cause an odd karma in itself. Just some thoughts. I think it is a kind of knee jerk reaction to our suffering, to look for its source, but I also think that we need to practice restraint of the "monkey mind" when this occurs.
               
              Steve
               


              To: Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com
              From: jack.j.frost@ btinternet. com
              Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 23:59:14 +0100
              Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

               
              I've read quite a bit about Karma, and come to the conclusion (in my not so humble opinion) that much of what is written may fall into the category of  "misguided misinformation" .

              While it may be easy to look at what you said and say, "oh well yes, this is obviously so", one can also take the opposite tack and say, "well, actually if anything it's the other way round".  

              What I would venture to suggest is - which situation gives a person the best opportunity for enlightenment?  A safe, warm cozy environment, or one where you have to fight for survival?  

              So my own personal view is, it is unwise to assign past life karma to current situations, as what may seem a bad situation could be indeed wonderful.   Was it Buddha (if not it was another vererated buddhist soul) that said "the best friends you will ever have are your enemies".  Why?  Because they bring out that within you which needs to change.

              And at the end of the day, one can take your question (and I mean no disrespect at all here) and say "does it matter"?

              I'm an alcoholic by the way, son of alcoholic parents.   These days I don't drink, and haven't for a few years now  :)   Without my crazy family of origin I don't think I would have had the impetus to learn what I have done, so to my parents, thank you.

              Jack.





              On 12/04/2010 21:50, STACIE HOGAN wrote:
               



               I am new to Buddhism and like to read the posts in this group to help me learn and grow in my journey.  I have been thinking about karma lately and was wondering that if it was your karma that decided where you get placed as a human? 

              Example: If you have negative karmic reprecussions coming to you then you are born into a less than desirable family environment (ie. child abuse, drugs, alcohol, ect).  On the flip side if you have positive karma then you are born into a loving caring family.

              Stacie





            • Steven Levey
              Hello my friend: Re your response: Are all burdens of today a cause of Karma, absolutely not. Living on this plane of duality has a reality of its own. I
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 21 11:31 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello my friend:
                    Re your response: 
                     "Are all burdens of today a cause of Karma, absolutely not. Living on this plane of duality has a reality of its own. I think tho that looking for the source of ones suffering and calling oneself a follower of Buddha are pretty much enclusive as this is the teaching of Buddha."
                 
                I think that this needs some thinking through. Previous to this statement you mention gravity and how it can be negative or positive depending upon ones point of view-absolutely true. And so it is that  karma, like gravity-it is completely pervasive of our condition. Like gravity, it is neither good nor bad in itself, but the law of cause and effect--ALL cause and effect. Therefore "burdens" or even if they are seen as boons from which to learn, as Jack says regarding his alchoholism, are our karma. Nature, like our minds, is an energy field (called akasa, astral, light energy, electro magnetic, or whatever), and all that is thrown into it( thoughts, actions, motives), as a stone into a pond. must have reverbrations of differing degrees, which require the exact same amount of energy consciously expended to bring about quiescence or equalibrium. This is physics and metaphysics.
                 
                Also, in my little post regarding the uselessness of searching for causes: my point is that it is frankly impossible to isolate the exact cause, since they are often so complex, so that preoccupying oneself with such a dreary and karma causing endeavor needs to be replaced by the mindfullness of the moment, so that the circumstance of the moment, regardless of where it came from, can be mitagated.  This is Buddhism. All the other stuff is a preoccupation with useless ritual. Our prayers and meditations need to be aimed at the well-being of others, not the preoccupation with self and its issues. It will be self-lessness that makes Buddhas of us.
                 
                Steve

                 

                To: Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com
                From: salbecker@...
                Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:50:35 -0700
                Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                 
                I believe Karma is neither good or bad, it just is. Depending on the circumstance, gravity can be either a positive or a negative. As a natural law on this plane of duality it can neither be denied nor rationalized away. We each come into each new conciousness with lessons we need to learn and to correct past mistakes. To deny the affect of karma to ones burden of today is to deny oneself the best measure of ones path to enlightenment. Are all burdens of today a cause of Karma, absolutely not. Living on this plane of duality has a reality of its own. I think tho that looking for the source of ones suffering and calling oneself a follower of Buddha are pretty much enclusive as this is the teaching of Buddha. To release oneself from rebirth into this plane of duality by removing all suffering (attachment) from ones life and to do that one must find the source of that suffering.
                 
                Jack please forgive my bluntness and I do not want to trivialize your suffering and the journey you have traveled. To me you are no longer an alcoholic as you have transended that lesson. You are a son of God (yes it is true I am not a Buddhist put I am a big fan and the teachings bring so much to my life), you are "I Am". As I believe that no one is born a Sinner, how could you be. But to continue to bathe in the negative context of calling oneself a Sinner or an Alcoholic or any other label of this plane of duality, well it continues to give it power over you. "Resist not Temptation" is a thought here, in that thought gives it power.
                 
                To rationalize and to refuse to accept  that a persons plight here in this reality could not be as a result of ones Karma, well the word folly comes to mind.......
                 
                My most humbe thoughts I pray from God
                 
                Namaste
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:03 AM
                Subject: RE: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                 

                Hello Jack,
                       I think that your response here, regarding Karma as the neccesary means to growth, is very useful. I also agree that it is unwise to assign todays burden (as we see them) to the past or past incarnations. Even though all karmas must have a seed from which they grow, to look for their source is some form of denial of the present condition, which needs to be dealt with as best one can today. I mean, because we are a continuous stream of existance, we know that through the notion of continuity, there is an aspect of us which is not dependent. But to look for where the negative (we think) came from in that stream is to use the positive awareness of our continuity in a negative way. I think that this must be cause an odd karma in itself. Just some thoughts. I think it is a kind of knee jerk reaction to our suffering, to look for its source, but I also think that we need to practice restraint of the "monkey mind" when this occurs.
                 
                Steve
                 


                To: Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com
                From: jack.j.frost@ btinternet. com
                Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 23:59:14 +0100
                Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                 
                I've read quite a bit about Karma, and come to the conclusion (in my not so humble opinion) that much of what is written may fall into the category of  "misguided misinformation" .

                While it may be easy to look at what you said and say, "oh well yes, this is obviously so", one can also take the opposite tack and say, "well, actually if anything it's the other way round".  

                What I would venture to suggest is - which situation gives a person the best opportunity for enlightenment?  A safe, warm cozy environment, or one where you have to fight for survival?  

                So my own personal view is, it is unwise to assign past life karma to current situations, as what may seem a bad situation could be indeed wonderful.   Was it Buddha (if not it was another vererated buddhist soul) that said "the best friends you will ever have are your enemies".  Why?  Because they bring out that within you which needs to change.

                And at the end of the day, one can take your question (and I mean no disrespect at all here) and say "does it matter"?

                I'm an alcoholic by the way, son of alcoholic parents.   These days I don't drink, and haven't for a few years now  :)   Without my crazy family of origin I don't think I would have had the impetus to learn what I have done, so to my parents, thank you.

                Jack.





                On 12/04/2010 21:50, STACIE HOGAN wrote:
                 



                 I am new to Buddhism and like to read the posts in this group to help me learn and grow in my journey.  I have been thinking about karma lately and was wondering that if it was your karma that decided where you get placed as a human? 

                Example: If you have negative karmic reprecussions coming to you then you are born into a less than desirable family environment (ie. child abuse, drugs, alcohol, ect).  On the flip side if you have positive karma then you are born into a loving caring family.

                Stacie








              • Sal Becker
                Hey Steve, My statement I believe Karma is neither good or bad, it just is. Depending on the circumstance, gravity can be either a positive or a negative. is
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 21 11:51 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hey Steve,
                   
                  My statement "I believe Karma is neither good or bad, it just is. Depending on the circumstance, gravity can be either a positive or a negative." is saying that Karma as with Gravity is neither good nor bad, that it just is a reality of this plane. So we do agree.
                   
                  And you are right "Nature, like our minds, is an energy field (called akasa, astral, light energy, electro magnetic, or whatever), and all that is thrown into it( thoughts, actions, motives), as a stone into a pond. must have reverbrations of differing degrees, which require the exact same amount of energy consciously expended to bring about quiescence or equalibrium. This is physics and metaphysics. " is very much correct and I couldn't agree more. My point being, these laws don't relate to used to be, don't, can't, shouldn't and so on. What is relevent to these laws is the vibration of the action ie alcoholism, hate, love and so on. Repeatedly stating that one is a sinner or an alcoholic or drug addict when one no longer ingages in those activities will attract those vibrations to them and is a risky practice. Thus "Resist Not Tempation" meaning give no power or energy by not giving it the power and energy of thought wich all things are.
                   
                  I hope this clarifies my previous outlining of my thoughts
                   
                  Namaste

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 11:31 AM
                  Subject: RE: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                   

                  Hello my friend:
                      Re your response: 
                       "Are all burdens of today a cause of Karma, absolutely not. Living on this plane of duality has a reality of its own. I think tho that looking for the source of ones suffering and calling oneself a follower of Buddha are pretty much enclusive as this is the teaching of Buddha."
                   
                  I think that this needs some thinking through. Previous to this statement you mention gravity and how it can be negative or positive depending upon ones point of view-absolutely true. And so it is that  karma, like gravity-it is completely pervasive of our condition. Like gravity, it is neither good nor bad in itself, but the law of cause and effect--ALL cause and effect. Therefore "burdens" or even if they are seen as boons from which to learn, as Jack says regarding his alchoholism, are our karma. Nature, like our minds, is an energy field (called akasa, astral, light energy, electro magnetic, or whatever), and all that is thrown into it( thoughts, actions, motives), as a stone into a pond. must have reverbrations of differing degrees, which require the exact same amount of energy consciously expended to bring about quiescence or equalibrium. This is physics and metaphysics.
                   
                  Also, in my little post regarding the uselessness of searching for causes: my point is that it is frankly impossible to isolate the exact cause, since they are often so complex, so that preoccupying oneself with such a dreary and karma causing endeavor needs to be replaced by the mindfullness of the moment, so that the circumstance of the moment, regardless of where it came from, can be mitagated.  This is Buddhism. All the other stuff is a preoccupation with useless ritual. Our prayers and meditations need to be aimed at the well-being of others, not the preoccupation with self and its issues. It will be self-lessness that makes Buddhas of us.
                   
                  Steve

                   


                  To: Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com
                  From: salbecker@cox. net
                  Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:50:35 -0700
                  Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                   
                  I believe Karma is neither good or bad, it just is. Depending on the circumstance, gravity can be either a positive or a negative. As a natural law on this plane of duality it can neither be denied nor rationalized away. We each come into each new conciousness with lessons we need to learn and to correct past mistakes. To deny the affect of karma to ones burden of today is to deny oneself the best measure of ones path to enlightenment. Are all burdens of today a cause of Karma, absolutely not. Living on this plane of duality has a reality of its own. I think tho that looking for the source of ones suffering and calling oneself a follower of Buddha are pretty much enclusive as this is the teaching of Buddha. To release oneself from rebirth into this plane of duality by removing all suffering (attachment) from ones life and to do that one must find the source of that suffering.
                   
                  Jack please forgive my bluntness and I do not want to trivialize your suffering and the journey you have traveled. To me you are no longer an alcoholic as you have transended that lesson. You are a son of God (yes it is true I am not a Buddhist put I am a big fan and the teachings bring so much to my life), you are "I Am". As I believe that no one is born a Sinner, how could you be. But to continue to bathe in the negative context of calling oneself a Sinner or an Alcoholic or any other label of this plane of duality, well it continues to give it power over you. "Resist not Temptation" is a thought here, in that thought gives it power.
                   
                  To rationalize and to refuse to accept  that a persons plight here in this reality could not be as a result of ones Karma, well the word folly comes to mind.......
                   
                  My most humbe thoughts I pray from God
                   
                  Namaste
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:03 AM
                  Subject: RE: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                   

                  Hello Jack,
                         I think that your response here, regarding Karma as the neccesary means to growth, is very useful. I also agree that it is unwise to assign todays burden (as we see them) to the past or past incarnations. Even though all karmas must have a seed from which they grow, to look for their source is some form of denial of the present condition, which needs to be dealt with as best one can today. I mean, because we are a continuous stream of existance, we know that through the notion of continuity, there is an aspect of us which is not dependent. But to look for where the negative (we think) came from in that stream is to use the positive awareness of our continuity in a negative way. I think that this must be cause an odd karma in itself. Just some thoughts. I think it is a kind of knee jerk reaction to our suffering, to look for its source, but I also think that we need to practice restraint of the "monkey mind" when this occurs.
                   
                  Steve
                   


                  To: Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com
                  From: jack.j.frost@ btinternet. com
                  Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 23:59:14 +0100
                  Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                   
                  I've read quite a bit about Karma, and come to the conclusion (in my not so humble opinion) that much of what is written may fall into the category of  "misguided misinformation" .

                  While it may be easy to look at what you said and say, "oh well yes, this is obviously so", one can also take the opposite tack and say, "well, actually if anything it's the other way round".  

                  What I would venture to suggest is - which situation gives a person the best opportunity for enlightenment?  A safe, warm cozy environment, or one where you have to fight for survival?  

                  So my own personal view is, it is unwise to assign past life karma to current situations, as what may seem a bad situation could be indeed wonderful.   Was it Buddha (if not it was another vererated buddhist soul) that said "the best friends you will ever have are your enemies".  Why?  Because they bring out that within you which needs to change.

                  And at the end of the day, one can take your question (and I mean no disrespect at all here) and say "does it matter"?

                  I'm an alcoholic by the way, son of alcoholic parents.   These days I don't drink, and haven't for a few years now  :)   Without my crazy family of origin I don't think I would have had the impetus to learn what I have done, so to my parents, thank you.

                  Jack.





                  On 12/04/2010 21:50, STACIE HOGAN wrote:
                   



                   I am new to Buddhism and like to read the posts in this group to help me learn and grow in my journey.  I have been thinking about karma lately and was wondering that if it was your karma that decided where you get placed as a human? 

                  Example: If you have negative karmic reprecussions coming to you then you are born into a less than desirable family environment (ie. child abuse, drugs, alcohol, ect).  On the flip side if you have positive karma then you are born into a loving caring family.

                  Stacie








                • Steven Levey
                  Hello Again, I see what you mean and I agree as well, that to repeatedly tell oneself of ones weaknessess is as much a mistake as becoming overzealous in our
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 22 5:07 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hello Again,
                          I see what you mean and I agree as well, that to repeatedly tell oneself of ones weaknessess is as much a mistake as becoming overzealous in our humility since it supports an odd sense of egotism, which becomes an impediment. Clearly, one can see the fine line of the psychological Middle Way the student has to walk and it requires a higher degree of mindfullness than initially suspected.
                     
                    Steve
                     

                    To: Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com
                    From: salbecker@...
                    Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 11:51:54 -0700
                    Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                     
                    Hey Steve,
                     
                    My statement "I believe Karma is neither good or bad, it just is. Depending on the circumstance, gravity can be either a positive or a negative." is saying that Karma as with Gravity is neither good nor bad, that it just is a reality of this plane. So we do agree.
                     
                    And you are right "Nature, like our minds, is an energy field (called akasa, astral, light energy, electro magnetic, or whatever), and all that is thrown into it( thoughts, actions, motives), as a stone into a pond. must have reverbrations of differing degrees, which require the exact same amount of energy consciously expended to bring about quiescence or equalibrium. This is physics and metaphysics. " is very much correct and I couldn't agree more. My point being, these laws don't relate to used to be, don't, can't, shouldn't and so on. What is relevent to these laws is the vibration of the action ie alcoholism, hate, love and so on. Repeatedly stating that one is a sinner or an alcoholic or drug addict when one no longer ingages in those activities will attract those vibrations to them and is a risky practice. Thus "Resist Not Tempation" meaning give no power or energy by not giving it the power and energy of thought wich all things are.
                     
                    I hope this clarifies my previous outlining of my thoughts
                     
                    Namaste

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 11:31 AM
                    Subject: RE: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                     

                    Hello my friend:
                        Re your response: 
                         "Are all burdens of today a cause of Karma, absolutely not. Living on this plane of duality has a reality of its own. I think tho that looking for the source of ones suffering and calling oneself a follower of Buddha are pretty much enclusive as this is the teaching of Buddha."
                     
                    I think that this needs some thinking through. Previous to this statement you mention gravity and how it can be negative or positive depending upon ones point of view-absolutely true. And so it is that  karma, like gravity-it is completely pervasive of our condition. Like gravity, it is neither good nor bad in itself, but the law of cause and effect--ALL cause and effect. Therefore "burdens" or even if they are seen as boons from which to learn, as Jack says regarding his alchoholism, are our karma. Nature, like our minds, is an energy field (called akasa, astral, light energy, electro magnetic, or whatever), and all that is thrown into it( thoughts, actions, motives), as a stone into a pond. must have reverbrations of differing degrees, which require the exact same amount of energy consciously expended to bring about quiescence or equalibrium. This is physics and metaphysics.
                     
                    Also, in my little post regarding the uselessness of searching for causes: my point is that it is frankly impossible to isolate the exact cause, since they are often so complex, so that preoccupying oneself with such a dreary and karma causing endeavor needs to be replaced by the mindfullness of the moment, so that the circumstance of the moment, regardless of where it came from, can be mitagated.  This is Buddhism. All the other stuff is a preoccupation with useless ritual. Our prayers and meditations need to be aimed at the well-being of others, not the preoccupation with self and its issues. It will be self-lessness that makes Buddhas of us.
                     
                    Steve

                     


                    To: Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com
                    From: salbecker@cox. net
                    Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:50:35 -0700
                    Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                     
                    I believe Karma is neither good or bad, it just is. Depending on the circumstance, gravity can be either a positive or a negative. As a natural law on this plane of duality it can neither be denied nor rationalized away. We each come into each new conciousness with lessons we need to learn and to correct past mistakes. To deny the affect of karma to ones burden of today is to deny oneself the best measure of ones path to enlightenment. Are all burdens of today a cause of Karma, absolutely not. Living on this plane of duality has a reality of its own. I think tho that looking for the source of ones suffering and calling oneself a follower of Buddha are pretty much enclusive as this is the teaching of Buddha. To release oneself from rebirth into this plane of duality by removing all suffering (attachment) from ones life and to do that one must find the source of that suffering.
                     
                    Jack please forgive my bluntness and I do not want to trivialize your suffering and the journey you have traveled. To me you are no longer an alcoholic as you have transended that lesson. You are a son of God (yes it is true I am not a Buddhist put I am a big fan and the teachings bring so much to my life), you are "I Am". As I believe that no one is born a Sinner, how could you be. But to continue to bathe in the negative context of calling oneself a Sinner or an Alcoholic or any other label of this plane of duality, well it continues to give it power over you. "Resist not Temptation" is a thought here, in that thought gives it power.
                     
                    To rationalize and to refuse to accept  that a persons plight here in this reality could not be as a result of ones Karma, well the word folly comes to mind.......
                     
                    My most humbe thoughts I pray from God
                     
                    Namaste
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:03 AM
                    Subject: RE: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                     

                    Hello Jack,
                           I think that your response here, regarding Karma as the neccesary means to growth, is very useful. I also agree that it is unwise to assign todays burden (as we see them) to the past or past incarnations. Even though all karmas must have a seed from which they grow, to look for their source is some form of denial of the present condition, which needs to be dealt with as best one can today. I mean, because we are a continuous stream of existance, we know that through the notion of continuity, there is an aspect of us which is not dependent. But to look for where the negative (we think) came from in that stream is to use the positive awareness of our continuity in a negative way. I think that this must be cause an odd karma in itself. Just some thoughts. I think it is a kind of knee jerk reaction to our suffering, to look for its source, but I also think that we need to practice restraint of the "monkey mind" when this occurs.
                     
                    Steve
                     


                    To: Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com
                    From: jack.j.frost@ btinternet. com
                    Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 23:59:14 +0100
                    Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                     
                    I've read quite a bit about Karma, and come to the conclusion (in my not so humble opinion) that much of what is written may fall into the category of  "misguided misinformation" .

                    While it may be easy to look at what you said and say, "oh well yes, this is obviously so", one can also take the opposite tack and say, "well, actually if anything it's the other way round".  

                    What I would venture to suggest is - which situation gives a person the best opportunity for enlightenment?  A safe, warm cozy environment, or one where you have to fight for survival?  

                    So my own personal view is, it is unwise to assign past life karma to current situations, as what may seem a bad situation could be indeed wonderful.   Was it Buddha (if not it was another vererated buddhist soul) that said "the best friends you will ever have are your enemies".  Why?  Because they bring out that within you which needs to change.

                    And at the end of the day, one can take your question (and I mean no disrespect at all here) and say "does it matter"?

                    I'm an alcoholic by the way, son of alcoholic parents.   These days I don't drink, and haven't for a few years now  :)   Without my crazy family of origin I don't think I would have had the impetus to learn what I have done, so to my parents, thank you.

                    Jack.





                    On 12/04/2010 21:50, STACIE HOGAN wrote:
                     



                     I am new to Buddhism and like to read the posts in this group to help me learn and grow in my journey.  I have been thinking about karma lately and was wondering that if it was your karma that decided where you get placed as a human? 

                    Example: If you have negative karmic reprecussions coming to you then you are born into a less than desirable family environment (ie. child abuse, drugs, alcohol, ect).  On the flip side if you have positive karma then you are born into a loving caring family.

                    Stacie











                  • Sal Becker
                    HI Steve, Yes it like walking the edge of a razor isn t it. But it is a great point of conversation that allows itself to many different thoughts. Namaste ...
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 22 9:50 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      HI Steve,
                       
                      Yes it like walking the edge of a razor isn't it. But it is a great point of conversation that allows itself to many different thoughts.
                       
                      Namaste
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 5:07 AM
                      Subject: RE: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                       

                      Hello Again,
                            I see what you mean and I agree as well, that to repeatedly tell oneself of ones weaknessess is as much a mistake as becoming overzealous in our humility since it supports an odd sense of egotism, which becomes an impediment. Clearly, one can see the fine line of the psychological Middle Way the student has to walk and it requires a higher degree of mindfullness than initially suspected.
                       
                      Steve
                       


                      To: Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com
                      From: salbecker@cox. net
                      Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 11:51:54 -0700
                      Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                       
                      Hey Steve,
                       
                      My statement "I believe Karma is neither good or bad, it just is. Depending on the circumstance, gravity can be either a positive or a negative." is saying that Karma as with Gravity is neither good nor bad, that it just is a reality of this plane. So we do agree.
                       
                      And you are right "Nature, like our minds, is an energy field (called akasa, astral, light energy, electro magnetic, or whatever), and all that is thrown into it( thoughts, actions, motives), as a stone into a pond. must have reverbrations of differing degrees, which require the exact same amount of energy consciously expended to bring about quiescence or equalibrium. This is physics and metaphysics. " is very much correct and I couldn't agree more. My point being, these laws don't relate to used to be, don't, can't, shouldn't and so on. What is relevent to these laws is the vibration of the action ie alcoholism, hate, love and so on. Repeatedly stating that one is a sinner or an alcoholic or drug addict when one no longer ingages in those activities will attract those vibrations to them and is a risky practice. Thus "Resist Not Tempation" meaning give no power or energy by not giving it the power and energy of thought wich all things are.
                       
                      I hope this clarifies my previous outlining of my thoughts
                       
                      Namaste

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 11:31 AM
                      Subject: RE: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                       

                      Hello my friend:
                          Re your response: 
                           "Are all burdens of today a cause of Karma, absolutely not. Living on this plane of duality has a reality of its own. I think tho that looking for the source of ones suffering and calling oneself a follower of Buddha are pretty much enclusive as this is the teaching of Buddha."
                       
                      I think that this needs some thinking through. Previous to this statement you mention gravity and how it can be negative or positive depending upon ones point of view-absolutely true. And so it is that  karma, like gravity-it is completely pervasive of our condition. Like gravity, it is neither good nor bad in itself, but the law of cause and effect--ALL cause and effect. Therefore "burdens" or even if they are seen as boons from which to learn, as Jack says regarding his alchoholism, are our karma. Nature, like our minds, is an energy field (called akasa, astral, light energy, electro magnetic, or whatever), and all that is thrown into it( thoughts, actions, motives), as a stone into a pond. must have reverbrations of differing degrees, which require the exact same amount of energy consciously expended to bring about quiescence or equalibrium. This is physics and metaphysics.
                       
                      Also, in my little post regarding the uselessness of searching for causes: my point is that it is frankly impossible to isolate the exact cause, since they are often so complex, so that preoccupying oneself with such a dreary and karma causing endeavor needs to be replaced by the mindfullness of the moment, so that the circumstance of the moment, regardless of where it came from, can be mitagated.  This is Buddhism. All the other stuff is a preoccupation with useless ritual. Our prayers and meditations need to be aimed at the well-being of others, not the preoccupation with self and its issues. It will be self-lessness that makes Buddhas of us.
                       
                      Steve

                       


                      To: Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com
                      From: salbecker@cox. net
                      Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:50:35 -0700
                      Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                       
                      I believe Karma is neither good or bad, it just is. Depending on the circumstance, gravity can be either a positive or a negative. As a natural law on this plane of duality it can neither be denied nor rationalized away. We each come into each new conciousness with lessons we need to learn and to correct past mistakes. To deny the affect of karma to ones burden of today is to deny oneself the best measure of ones path to enlightenment. Are all burdens of today a cause of Karma, absolutely not. Living on this plane of duality has a reality of its own. I think tho that looking for the source of ones suffering and calling oneself a follower of Buddha are pretty much enclusive as this is the teaching of Buddha. To release oneself from rebirth into this plane of duality by removing all suffering (attachment) from ones life and to do that one must find the source of that suffering.
                       
                      Jack please forgive my bluntness and I do not want to trivialize your suffering and the journey you have traveled. To me you are no longer an alcoholic as you have transended that lesson. You are a son of God (yes it is true I am not a Buddhist put I am a big fan and the teachings bring so much to my life), you are "I Am". As I believe that no one is born a Sinner, how could you be. But to continue to bathe in the negative context of calling oneself a Sinner or an Alcoholic or any other label of this plane of duality, well it continues to give it power over you. "Resist not Temptation" is a thought here, in that thought gives it power.
                       
                      To rationalize and to refuse to accept  that a persons plight here in this reality could not be as a result of ones Karma, well the word folly comes to mind.......
                       
                      My most humbe thoughts I pray from God
                       
                      Namaste
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:03 AM
                      Subject: RE: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                       

                      Hello Jack,
                             I think that your response here, regarding Karma as the neccesary means to growth, is very useful. I also agree that it is unwise to assign todays burden (as we see them) to the past or past incarnations. Even though all karmas must have a seed from which they grow, to look for their source is some form of denial of the present condition, which needs to be dealt with as best one can today. I mean, because we are a continuous stream of existance, we know that through the notion of continuity, there is an aspect of us which is not dependent. But to look for where the negative (we think) came from in that stream is to use the positive awareness of our continuity in a negative way. I think that this must be cause an odd karma in itself. Just some thoughts. I think it is a kind of knee jerk reaction to our suffering, to look for its source, but I also think that we need to practice restraint of the "monkey mind" when this occurs.
                       
                      Steve
                       


                      To: Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com
                      From: jack.j.frost@ btinternet. com
                      Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 23:59:14 +0100
                      Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                       
                      I've read quite a bit about Karma, and come to the conclusion (in my not so humble opinion) that much of what is written may fall into the category of  "misguided misinformation" .

                      While it may be easy to look at what you said and say, "oh well yes, this is obviously so", one can also take the opposite tack and say, "well, actually if anything it's the other way round".  

                      What I would venture to suggest is - which situation gives a person the best opportunity for enlightenment?  A safe, warm cozy environment, or one where you have to fight for survival?  

                      So my own personal view is, it is unwise to assign past life karma to current situations, as what may seem a bad situation could be indeed wonderful.   Was it Buddha (if not it was another vererated buddhist soul) that said "the best friends you will ever have are your enemies".  Why?  Because they bring out that within you which needs to change.

                      And at the end of the day, one can take your question (and I mean no disrespect at all here) and say "does it matter"?

                      I'm an alcoholic by the way, son of alcoholic parents.   These days I don't drink, and haven't for a few years now  :)   Without my crazy family of origin I don't think I would have had the impetus to learn what I have done, so to my parents, thank you.

                      Jack.





                      On 12/04/2010 21:50, STACIE HOGAN wrote:
                       



                       I am new to Buddhism and like to read the posts in this group to help me learn and grow in my journey.  I have been thinking about karma lately and was wondering that if it was your karma that decided where you get placed as a human? 

                      Example: If you have negative karmic reprecussions coming to you then you are born into a less than desirable family environment (ie. child abuse, drugs, alcohol, ect).  On the flip side if you have positive karma then you are born into a loving caring family.

                      Stacie











                    • Jack Frost
                      In the case of alcoholism, if that were true I would agree. However, when a former weakness becomes a strength, such is not the case. You have to be an
                      Message 10 of 14 , Apr 22 9:55 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        In the case of alcoholism, if that were true I would agree.   However, when a former weakness becomes a strength, such is not the case.   You have to be an alcoholic to understand.  And I am an alcoholic :)

                        Jack.


                        On 22/04/2010 13:07, Steven Levey wrote:
                         

                        Hello Again,
                              I see what you mean and I agree as well, that to repeatedly tell oneself of ones weaknessess is as much a mistake as becoming overzealous in our humility since it supports an odd sense of egotism, which becomes an impediment. Clearly, one can see the fine line of the psychological Middle Way the student has to walk and it requires a higher degree of mindfullness than initially suspected.
                         
                        Steve
                         


                        To: Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com
                        From: salbecker@cox. net
                        Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 11:51:54 -0700
                        Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                         
                        Hey Steve,
                         
                        My statement "I believe Karma is neither good or bad, it just is. Depending on the circumstance, gravity can be either a positive or a negative." is saying that Karma as with Gravity is neither good nor bad, that it just is a reality of this plane. So we do agree.
                         
                        And you are right "Nature, like our minds, is an energy field (called akasa, astral, light energy, electro magnetic, or whatever), and all that is thrown into it( thoughts, actions, motives), as a stone into a pond. must have reverbrations of differing degrees, which require the exact same amount of energy consciously expended to bring about quiescence or equalibrium. This is physics and metaphysics. " is very much correct and I couldn't agree more. My point being, these laws don't relate to used to be, don't, can't, shouldn't and so on. What is relevent to these laws is the vibration of the action ie alcoholism, hate, love and so on. Repeatedly stating that one is a sinner or an alcoholic or drug addict when one no longer ingages in those activities will attract those vibrations to them and is a risky practice. Thus "Resist Not Tempation" meaning give no power or energy by not giving it the power and energy of thought wich all things are.
                         
                        I hope this clarifies my previous outlining of my thoughts
                         
                        Namaste

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 11:31 AM
                        Subject: RE: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                         

                        Hello my friend:
                            Re your response: 
                             "Are all burdens of today a cause of Karma, absolutely not. Living on this plane of duality has a reality of its own. I think tho that looking for the source of ones suffering and calling oneself a follower of Buddha are pretty much enclusive as this is the teaching of Buddha."
                         
                        I think that this needs some thinking through. Previous to this statement you mention gravity and how it can be negative or positive depending upon ones point of view-absolutely true. And so it is that  karma, like gravity-it is completely pervasive of our condition. Like gravity, it is neither good nor bad in itself, but the law of cause and effect--ALL cause and effect. Therefore "burdens" or even if they are seen as boons from which to learn, as Jack says regarding his alchoholism, are our karma. Nature, like our minds, is an energy field (called akasa, astral, light energy, electro magnetic, or whatever), and all that is thrown into it( thoughts, actions, motives), as a stone into a pond. must have reverbrations of differing degrees, which require the exact same amount of energy consciously expended to bring about quiescence or equalibrium. This is physics and metaphysics.
                         
                        Also, in my little post regarding the uselessness of searching for causes: my point is that it is frankly impossible to isolate the exact cause, since they are often so complex, so that preoccupying oneself with such a dreary and karma causing endeavor needs to be replaced by the mindfullness of the moment, so that the circumstance of the moment, regardless of where it came from, can be mitagated.  This is Buddhism. All the other stuff is a preoccupation with useless ritual. Our prayers and meditations need to be aimed at the well-being of others, not the preoccupation with self and its issues. It will be self-lessness that makes Buddhas of us.
                         
                        Steve

                         


                        To: Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com
                        From: salbecker@cox. net
                        Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:50:35 -0700
                        Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                         
                        I believe Karma is neither good or bad, it just is. Depending on the circumstance, gravity can be either a positive or a negative. As a natural law on this plane of duality it can neither be denied nor rationalized away. We each come into each new conciousness with lessons we need to learn and to correct past mistakes. To deny the affect of karma to ones burden of today is to deny oneself the best measure of ones path to enlightenment. Are all burdens of today a cause of Karma, absolutely not. Living on this plane of duality has a reality of its own. I think tho that looking for the source of ones suffering and calling oneself a follower of Buddha are pretty much enclusive as this is the teaching of Buddha. To release oneself from rebirth into this plane of duality by removing all suffering (attachment) from ones life and to do that one must find the source of that suffering.
                         
                        Jack please forgive my bluntness and I do not want to trivialize your suffering and the journey you have traveled. To me you are no longer an alcoholic as you have transended that lesson. You are a son of God (yes it is true I am not a Buddhist put I am a big fan and the teachings bring so much to my life), you are "I Am". As I believe that no one is born a Sinner, how could you be. But to continue to bathe in the negative context of calling oneself a Sinner or an Alcoholic or any other label of this plane of duality, well it continues to give it power over you. "Resist not Temptation" is a thought here, in that thought gives it power.
                         
                        To rationalize and to refuse to accept  that a persons plight here in this reality could not be as a result of ones Karma, well the word folly comes to mind.......
                         
                        My most humbe thoughts I pray from God
                         
                        Namaste
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:03 AM
                        Subject: RE: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                         

                        Hello Jack,
                               I think that your response here, regarding Karma as the neccesary means to growth, is very useful. I also agree that it is unwise to assign todays burden (as we see them) to the past or past incarnations. Even though all karmas must have a seed from which they grow, to look for their source is some form of denial of the present condition, which needs to be dealt with as best one can today. I mean, because we are a continuous stream of existance, we know that through the notion of continuity, there is an aspect of us which is not dependent. But to look for where the negative (we think) came from in that stream is to use the positive awareness of our continuity in a negative way. I think that this must be cause an odd karma in itself. Just some thoughts. I think it is a kind of knee jerk reaction to our suffering, to look for its source, but I also think that we need to practice restraint of the "monkey mind" when this occurs.
                         
                        Steve
                         


                        To: Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com
                        From: jack.j.frost@ btinternet. com
                        Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 23:59:14 +0100
                        Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                         
                        I've read quite a bit about Karma, and come to the conclusion (in my not so humble opinion) that much of what is written may fall into the category of  "misguided misinformation" .

                        While it may be easy to look at what you said and say, "oh well yes, this is obviously so", one can also take the opposite tack and say, "well, actually if anything it's the other way round".  

                        What I would venture to suggest is - which situation gives a person the best opportunity for enlightenment?  A safe, warm cozy environment, or one where you have to fight for survival?  

                        So my own personal view is, it is unwise to assign past life karma to current situations, as what may seem a bad situation could be indeed wonderful.   Was it Buddha (if not it was another vererated buddhist soul) that said "the best friends you will ever have are your enemies".  Why?  Because they bring out that within you which needs to change.

                        And at the end of the day, one can take your question (and I mean no disrespect at all here) and say "does it matter"?

                        I'm an alcoholic by the way, son of alcoholic parents.   These days I don't drink, and haven't for a few years now  :)   Without my crazy family of origin I don't think I would have had the impetus to learn what I have done, so to my parents, thank you.

                        Jack.





                        On 12/04/2010 21:50, STACIE HOGAN wrote:
                         



                         I am new to Buddhism and like to read the posts in this group to help me learn and grow in my journey.  I have been thinking about karma lately and was wondering that if it was your karma that decided where you get placed as a human? 

                        Example: If you have negative karmic reprecussions coming to you then you are born into a less than desirable family environment (ie. child abuse, drugs, alcohol, ect).  On the flip side if you have positive karma then you are born into a loving caring family.

                        Stacie












                      • ken
                        Edgar Cayce had some things to say about karma. Here s one: This may be a hard statement for many, but you will eventually come to know it is true: No fault,
                        Message 11 of 14 , Apr 22 11:39 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Edgar Cayce had some things to say about karma. Here's one:

                          "This may be a hard statement for many, but you will eventually come to
                          know it is true: No fault, no hurt comes to self save that thou hast
                          created in thine consciousness, in thine inner self, the cause. For only
                          those that ye love may hurt you." (262-83)

                          If you don't know about Edgar Cayce, you can find a lot about him on the
                          web and perhaps even at your local library. In brief, he was born and
                          grew up in rural Kentucky more than a hundred years ago and in his young
                          days showed remarkable abilities including the ability to cure people of
                          diseases which medical professionals could not. This led to other
                          questions and eventually to some concerning karma. Wikipedia has a nice
                          little bio on Cayce if you wish.


                          hth,
                          ken

                          --
                          Find research and analysis on US healthcare, health insurance,
                          and health policy at: <http://healthpolicydaily.blogspot.com/>


                          On 04/12/2010 04:50 PM STACIE HOGAN wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I am new to Buddhism and like to read the posts in this group to help
                          > me learn and grow in my journey. I have been thinking about karma
                          > lately and was wondering that if it was your karma that decided where
                          > you get placed as a human?
                          >
                          > Example: If you have negative karmic reprecussions coming to you then
                          > you are born into a less than desirable family environment (ie. child
                          > abuse, drugs, alcohol, ect). On the flip side if you have positive
                          > karma then you are born into a loving caring family.
                          >
                          > Stacie
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Sal Becker
                          I believe you Jack, thank you ... From: Jack Frost To: Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma
                          Message 12 of 14 , Apr 22 1:22 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I believe you Jack, thank you
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 9:55 AM
                            Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                             

                            In the case of alcoholism, if that were true I would agree.   However, when a former weakness becomes a strength, such is not the case.   You have to be an alcoholic to understand.  And I am an alcoholic :)

                            Jack.


                            On 22/04/2010 13:07, Steven Levey wrote:

                             

                            Hello Again,
                                  I see what you mean and I agree as well, that to repeatedly tell oneself of ones weaknessess is as much a mistake as becoming overzealous in our humility since it supports an odd sense of egotism, which becomes an impediment. Clearly, one can see the fine line of the psychological Middle Way the student has to walk and it requires a higher degree of mindfullness than initially suspected.
                             
                            Steve
                             


                            To: Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com
                            From: salbecker@cox. net
                            Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 11:51:54 -0700
                            Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                             
                            Hey Steve,
                             
                            My statement "I believe Karma is neither good or bad, it just is. Depending on the circumstance, gravity can be either a positive or a negative." is saying that Karma as with Gravity is neither good nor bad, that it just is a reality of this plane. So we do agree.
                             
                            And you are right "Nature, like our minds, is an energy field (called akasa, astral, light energy, electro magnetic, or whatever), and all that is thrown into it( thoughts, actions, motives), as a stone into a pond. must have reverbrations of differing degrees, which require the exact same amount of energy consciously expended to bring about quiescence or equalibrium. This is physics and metaphysics. " is very much correct and I couldn't agree more. My point being, these laws don't relate to used to be, don't, can't, shouldn't and so on. What is relevent to these laws is the vibration of the action ie alcoholism, hate, love and so on. Repeatedly stating that one is a sinner or an alcoholic or drug addict when one no longer ingages in those activities will attract those vibrations to them and is a risky practice. Thus "Resist Not Tempation" meaning give no power or energy by not giving it the power and energy of thought wich all things are.
                             
                            I hope this clarifies my previous outlining of my thoughts
                             
                            Namaste

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 11:31 AM
                            Subject: RE: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                             

                            Hello my friend:
                                Re your response: 
                                 "Are all burdens of today a cause of Karma, absolutely not. Living on this plane of duality has a reality of its own. I think tho that looking for the source of ones suffering and calling oneself a follower of Buddha are pretty much enclusive as this is the teaching of Buddha."
                             
                            I think that this needs some thinking through. Previous to this statement you mention gravity and how it can be negative or positive depending upon ones point of view-absolutely true. And so it is that  karma, like gravity-it is completely pervasive of our condition. Like gravity, it is neither good nor bad in itself, but the law of cause and effect--ALL cause and effect. Therefore "burdens" or even if they are seen as boons from which to learn, as Jack says regarding his alchoholism, are our karma. Nature, like our minds, is an energy field (called akasa, astral, light energy, electro magnetic, or whatever), and all that is thrown into it( thoughts, actions, motives), as a stone into a pond. must have reverbrations of differing degrees, which require the exact same amount of energy consciously expended to bring about quiescence or equalibrium. This is physics and metaphysics.
                             
                            Also, in my little post regarding the uselessness of searching for causes: my point is that it is frankly impossible to isolate the exact cause, since they are often so complex, so that preoccupying oneself with such a dreary and karma causing endeavor needs to be replaced by the mindfullness of the moment, so that the circumstance of the moment, regardless of where it came from, can be mitagated.  This is Buddhism. All the other stuff is a preoccupation with useless ritual. Our prayers and meditations need to be aimed at the well-being of others, not the preoccupation with self and its issues. It will be self-lessness that makes Buddhas of us.
                             
                            Steve

                             


                            To: Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com
                            From: salbecker@cox. net
                            Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2010 10:50:35 -0700
                            Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                             
                            I believe Karma is neither good or bad, it just is. Depending on the circumstance, gravity can be either a positive or a negative. As a natural law on this plane of duality it can neither be denied nor rationalized away. We each come into each new conciousness with lessons we need to learn and to correct past mistakes. To deny the affect of karma to ones burden of today is to deny oneself the best measure of ones path to enlightenment. Are all burdens of today a cause of Karma, absolutely not. Living on this plane of duality has a reality of its own. I think tho that looking for the source of ones suffering and calling oneself a follower of Buddha are pretty much enclusive as this is the teaching of Buddha. To release oneself from rebirth into this plane of duality by removing all suffering (attachment) from ones life and to do that one must find the source of that suffering.
                             
                            Jack please forgive my bluntness and I do not want to trivialize your suffering and the journey you have traveled. To me you are no longer an alcoholic as you have transended that lesson. You are a son of God (yes it is true I am not a Buddhist put I am a big fan and the teachings bring so much to my life), you are "I Am". As I believe that no one is born a Sinner, how could you be. But to continue to bathe in the negative context of calling oneself a Sinner or an Alcoholic or any other label of this plane of duality, well it continues to give it power over you. "Resist not Temptation" is a thought here, in that thought gives it power.
                             
                            To rationalize and to refuse to accept  that a persons plight here in this reality could not be as a result of ones Karma, well the word folly comes to mind.......
                             
                            My most humbe thoughts I pray from God
                             
                            Namaste
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 5:03 AM
                            Subject: RE: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                             

                            Hello Jack,
                                   I think that your response here, regarding Karma as the neccesary means to growth, is very useful. I also agree that it is unwise to assign todays burden (as we see them) to the past or past incarnations. Even though all karmas must have a seed from which they grow, to look for their source is some form of denial of the present condition, which needs to be dealt with as best one can today. I mean, because we are a continuous stream of existance, we know that through the notion of continuity, there is an aspect of us which is not dependent. But to look for where the negative (we think) came from in that stream is to use the positive awareness of our continuity in a negative way. I think that this must be cause an odd karma in itself. Just some thoughts. I think it is a kind of knee jerk reaction to our suffering, to look for its source, but I also think that we need to practice restraint of the "monkey mind" when this occurs.
                             
                            Steve
                             


                            To: Buddhism_101@ yahoogroups. com
                            From: jack.j.frost@ btinternet. com
                            Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 23:59:14 +0100
                            Subject: Re: [Buddhism_101] Karma Question

                             
                            I've read quite a bit about Karma, and come to the conclusion (in my not so humble opinion) that much of what is written may fall into the category of  "misguided misinformation" .

                            While it may be easy to look at what you said and say, "oh well yes, this is obviously so", one can also take the opposite tack and say, "well, actually if anything it's the other way round".  

                            What I would venture to suggest is - which situation gives a person the best opportunity for enlightenment?  A safe, warm cozy environment, or one where you have to fight for survival?  

                            So my own personal view is, it is unwise to assign past life karma to current situations, as what may seem a bad situation could be indeed wonderful.   Was it Buddha (if not it was another vererated buddhist soul) that said "the best friends you will ever have are your enemies".  Why?  Because they bring out that within you which needs to change.

                            And at the end of the day, one can take your question (and I mean no disrespect at all here) and say "does it matter"?

                            I'm an alcoholic by the way, son of alcoholic parents.   These days I don't drink, and haven't for a few years now  :)   Without my crazy family of origin I don't think I would have had the impetus to learn what I have done, so to my parents, thank you.

                            Jack.





                            On 12/04/2010 21:50, STACIE HOGAN wrote:
                             



                             I am new to Buddhism and like to read the posts in this group to help me learn and grow in my journey.  I have been thinking about karma lately and was wondering that if it was your karma that decided where you get placed as a human? 

                            Example: If you have negative karmic reprecussions coming to you then you are born into a less than desirable family environment (ie. child abuse, drugs, alcohol, ect).  On the flip side if you have positive karma then you are born into a loving caring family.

                            Stacie












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