9966Re: [Buddhism_101] Re: Jesus was Buddhist!
- Oct 2, 2008Peace, Brother,
I meant no discord. By all means, I am as open to debate as any one else.
But, to debate for the sake of debating or to debate the same thought over
and over with no resolution takes up a great deal of time. Once a point has
been made..... I honor your ..."thoughts and direction of travel." For
each of us, it may be a different way. If you have learned from your missives,
I congratulate you.
>("For myself I don't see the error or frustration in sharing ideas andbeliefs with others. Surely you don't hold the same beliefs you did as a child.
How did those beliefs change and grow, through being challenged by other ideas
and beliefs which gave you cause to re-evaluate your position and beliefs. To
me this is growth. To me stunted is the person so entrenched in themselves
and their beliefs that they see no reason or cause to share them with
My friend, there is no error or frustration in sharing ideas and beliefs
with others. I share all the time, perhaps too much. But, please help me to
understand growth in debating ideas and thoughts that seem to be totally
cyclical in nature, sort of like the Celtic serpent swallowing its own tail for
eternity. Perhaps I am woefully ignorant in this, but I came away from your
thread Knowing that you Believe in a God, Knowing that you believe this quite
strongly, Knowing that you do not understand why others do not. And perhaps
this is what is at the crux of it for me. I do not believe in a God that
watches over the world, an afterlife or afterworld, that whole dogma. Perhaps
that is why I see this as never ending. You have your beliefs and I have mine.
We must just agree to disagree.
Are you implying that Hindus who hold steadfast to their teachings and don't
question them don't grow? See, and you thought I couldn't debate or share.
I also love to be in connection with other searchers. Now, when you say,
"...true teachings of Christ..." I'm not sure if there are any untrue
teachings, that it is just the way you worded it, or if you meant that the only true
teachings are those of the Christ. Obviously, I don't believe that you do,
but I'm glad to see that you stretch yourself by trying to understand other
ideas and philosophies.
In a message dated 10/1/2008 8:26:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Very good points. For myself I am really verbalizing thoughts and
direction of travel. Looking for feed back and experiences of others.
Hopefully an insight I have to offer may be a missing piece in
anothers puzzle as I look for those pieces to complete mine. There are
To the point, this discussion gave me cause to review my recent
readings and those past on this subject. For myself I don't see the
error or frustration in sharing ideas and beliefs with others. Surely
you don't hold the same beliefs you did as a child. How did those
beliefs change and grow, through being challenged by other ideas and
beliefs which gave you cause to re-evaluate your position and beliefs.
To me this is growth. To me stunted is the person so entrenched in
themselves and their beliefs that they see no reason or cause to share
them with another.
Surely Buddha would have never grown had he been so inclined. Surely
Buddha a student of the Hindu teachings would not have ventured to
grow and develop his beliefs if he had held steadfast to the Hindu
teaching and never sought to challenge them.
As for meditation being the venue to ask these questions, most
assuredly so. My blessings and love to all who truly, or who truly
try, to follow that which is there heart. Hopefully it is of a good
and pure nature. I would no more wish to change that belief than I
would the will of God. But in sharing in respect, no harm and much
understanding and good can come of it.
My views I guess are more aligned with the true teachings of Christ
and the Hindu teachings. I do belief in a Creator and I cannot image a
more blessed and beautiful enlightenment that to be fully engrossed in
the pure love of that Creator. I do believe there is much to learn
from the Buddhist teachings. And most of all, I love being in the
presence of such love as the love of the searchers.
Namaste and Love
--- In _Buddhism_101@Buddhism_101Bud_ (mailto:Buddhism_101@yahoogroups.com) ,
> Dear Friends,
> I have been reading this thread with interest. What comes across to
> writers trying to explain their own beliefs and hoping to mesh orweave them
> into a universality. It will keep going around and around incircles with no
> concrete resolution as each tries to "promote" his or her own case.It is a
> good thing that we do not all believe the same way. Having saidthat,
> there are only so many ways we can say the same thing, as I ambeginning to
> understand these messages. We must agree to disagree since none ofus will ever
> be able to positively say, "This is the answer." And is that sobad? I
> think, Yes. Because it keeps us embroiled in mini debates that cannot be proved
> or disproved. It keeps us from following the path we chose when wejoined
> this group. It keeps us from living NOW, in this moment. Whatcannot be
> answered with any surety might be better left for a Koan or for ourpersonal
> meditation. I am much more interested in hearing what members havebeen through
> with the general public or teachers or any experience as itpertains to the
> here and now. I also have been sitting solitarily for a long time,but have
> been asked if I'd like to join a group that meets for a few hours aweek. I
> would, but I'm not sure of protocol for entering, talking, manners,etc. in a
> more formal setting. If someone would be able to help me with this,I would
> be supremely appreciative.Christ.
> In a message dated 10/1/2008 5:47:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> salbecker@.. salbecker@..
> John and Rob,
> I truly do not wish to hijack this thread. But....;)
> Having given thought to your words John, and aligning them to my
> current readings, I would have to come to the conclusion that Jesus
> was not a Buddhist. I would agree he more than likely studied the
> teachings of Bhudda.
> But to underlying message of Jesus, I would be more inclined to say
> that he aligned himself more with the living in the pure love of God
> from the Hindu Beliefs. As I read more of the Hindu teachings and
> compare them to the teachings of Christ, I see more purely the Hindu
> influence on Jesus.
> I interchange Jesus and Christ here simply as a point of Jesus the man
> who achieved enlightenment in the pure love of God and became the
> I assures you, the Bhudda's, The Hindu Saints, The Christ and the
> Christ like Saints of Christianity as well as the holy men all the
> peoples of the world conspire to see man achieve enlightenment.
> Namaste and Peace to All
> --- In _Buddhism_101@ --- In --- In
> John Pellecchia <pellejf@> wrote:(http://www.buddhanehttp://www.buddhhttp://wwhtt_)
> > Good morning Sal,
> > I'm sure there are many sites on the Internet that misrepresent the
> concept of Buddhism especially that of Maitreya, Buddha, and Jesus. In
> fact on one such site they purport that Mohammed is really the
> expected Maitreya.
> > > "...then to what purpose is the belief of reincarnation. Is not
> the purpose of the reincarnation to learn that which one needs to
> obtain perfection. How is one to do so without the history of the past
> and the promise of the future.
> > "If there is no creator, then to what end of it all. Is it not the
> promise of being in the eternal presence of Gods Love which the soul
> follows and draws wisdom and strength from. For if there is nothing
> else once one has achieved perfection, then the promise of
> reincarnation would only lead one to not learn his or her lesson, not
> achieve perfection to gaurantee immortality. (I do love this debate
> simply that it is an exercise in spirituality on its most provoked
> level. I will respect your wishes and bait you no further.)"
> > Just remember that I am not a Lama or monk. I have no empowerments
> so much of what I am writing please take with that understanding.
> > As to a Supreme Being this is another contested belief among some
> Buddhists. This is one of the ten unanswered questions of the Buddha
> and I believe I wrote on this subject earlier. You may wish to read
> the following from "Good Question, Good Answer" by the Venerable
> Shravasti Dhammika at __http://www.buddhanehttp://www.http://wwwhttp://w_
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda03.htm) ) .
> > Your statement, however, (at least to my understanding) presupposes
> that there is a permanent "soul" or atman. In Buddhism there is no
> such concept of soul but rather of non-soul (anatman) since no "thing"
> is permanent. The concept of "reincarnation" is a Hindu belief; that
> there is an eternal self (atman) that migrates from body to body prior
> to birth. Buddhists believe in "rebirth" although some use the two
> terms (reincarnation and rebirth) interchangeably. Upon attaining
> Nirvana one transcends the act of rebirth and ends the cycle of
> rebirth. No immortality. No living in some heavenly state of
> unspeakable bliss. No suffering. No rebirth. So, what is reborn until
> that state is achieved? In my understanding it is "consciousness" but
> it is clouded by our belief in "ego" or "self". We each have
> Buddha-nature as our natural state that is clouded by Samsara. We just
> have to awaken to make that realization. That is the reason we
> meditate, practice, and study.
> > Have a great day.
> > May all be at peace.
> > John
> > Impermanent are all compounded things.
> > When one perceives this with true insight,
> > then one becomes detached from suffering;
> > this is the path of purification.
> > (Dhammapada 20.277)
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Sal_ B <salbecker@.sa>
> > John a Blessed Morning to you,
> > Sorely misworded I apologize for the wording and making up the word
> > misworded. I was truly asking the question as to the claim that
> > foretold the coming of Christ as it is something I heard sometimeback
> > and do not remember the source.purpose is
> > If in Buddhism there is not to be any thought or concentration to the
> > past or the future, the "NOW" being the focus, then to what
> > the belief of reincarnation. Is not the purpose of the reincarnationinformation, tips and
> > to learn that which one needs to obtain perfection. How is one to do
> > so without the history of the past and the promise of the future.
> > If there is no creator, then to what end of it all. Is it not the
> > promise of being in the eternal presence of Gods Love which the soul
> > follows and draws wisdom and strength from. For if there is nothing
> > else once one has achieved perfection, then the promise of
> > reincarnation would only lead one to not learn his or her lesson, not
> > achieve perfection to gaurantee immortality. (I do love this debate
> > simply that it is an exercise in spirituality on its most provoked
> > level. I will respect your wishes and bait you no further.)
> > I ask these questions and share my understanding as they are this
> > point in my learning, in the spirit of learning, I thank you for you
> > responses and those of the others.
> > Namaste
> > Sal
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