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Visuddhimagga IX.84-87 Gladness

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  • antony272b2
    84. One who begins the development of gladness should not start with the dear person and the rest; for a dear person is not the proximate cause of gladness
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 31, 2012
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      "84. One who begins the development of gladness should not start with the dear person and the rest; for a dear person is not the proximate cause of gladness merely in virtue of dearness, how much less the neutral and the hostile person. One of the opposite sex and one who is dead are also not the field for it.

      85. However, the very dear companion can be the proximate cause for it — one who in the commentaries is called a "boon companion," for he is constantly glad: he laughs first and speaks afterwards. So he should be the first to be pervaded with gladness. Or on seeing or hearing about a dear person being happy, cheerful and glad, gladness can be aroused thus: "This being is indeed glad. How good, how excellent!" For this is what is referred to in the Vibhanga:
      "And how does a bhikkhu dwell pervading one direction with his heart endued with gladness? Just as he would be glad on seeing a dear and beloved person, so he pervades all beings with gladness" (Vibh 274).

      86. But if his boon companion or the dear person was happy in the past but is now unlucky and unfortunate, then gladness can still be aroused by remembering his past happiness and apprehending the glad aspect in this way: "In the past he had great wealth, a great following and he was always glad." Or gladness can be aroused by apprehending the future glad aspect in him in this way: "In the future he will again enjoy similar success and will go about in gold palanquins, on the backs of elephants or on horseback, and so on."

      Having thus aroused gladness with respect to a dear person, he can then direct it successively towards a neutral one, and after that towards a hostile one.

      87. But if resentment towards the hostile one arises in him in the way already described, he should make it subside in the same way as described under lovingkindness (§§14–39).

      He should break down the barriers by means of mental impartiality towards the four, that is, towards these three and himself. And by cultivating that sign, developing and repeatedly practicing it, he should increase the absorption to triple and quadruple jhána in the way already stated under loving-kindness.

      Next, the versatility consisting in unspecified pervasion in five ways, specified pervasion in seven ways, and directional pervasion in ten ways, and also the advantages described as "He sleeps in comfort," etc., should be understood in the same way as stated under loving-kindness.

      This is the detailed explanation of the development of gladness."
      http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf
      From: pp367-368 Chapter IX: The Divine Abidings
      For Free Distribution, as a gift of Dhamma, from Access to Insight and the Buddhist Publication Society http://www.bps.lk

      With metta / Antony.
    • Tep Sastri
      Hi Antony, - I am glad to read your post on gladness. Allow me to provide additional reference for members who want to study further. Dhp 16: Here he
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 1, 2012
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        Hi Antony, -

        I am glad to read your post on gladness. Allow me to provide additional reference for members who want to study further.

        Dhp 16: 'Here he rejoices, hereafter he rejoices; one who performed meritorious deeds rejoices in both existences. He rejoices and greatly rejoices when he sees the purity of his own deeds'.

        I looked up the Pali word for 'rejoice', guessing it means gladness. And my guess turns out to be correct.

        'He rejoices and greatly rejoices when he sees the purity of his own deeds'. ['So modati so pamodati disvaa kamma visuddhimattano'].

        i) Pamodati means "rejoices; enjoys; is glad".
        ii) paamojja : delight; joy; happiness.
        http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/dict-pe/dictpe-17-p.htm

        So, it is a special kind of gladness, pamodati or paamojja, that is of interest to Buddhists who practice according to the Dhamma.

        Be well & happy,

        Tep
        ===

        --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@...> wrote:
        >
        > "84. One who begins the development of gladness should not start with the dear person and the rest; for a dear person is not the proximate cause of gladness merely in virtue of dearness, how much less the neutral and the hostile person. One of the opposite sex and one who is dead are also not the field for it.
        >
        > 85. However, the very dear companion can be the proximate cause for it — one who in the commentaries is called a "boon companion," for he is constantly glad: he laughs first and speaks afterwards. So he should be the first to be pervaded with gladness. Or on seeing or hearing about a dear person being happy, cheerful and glad, gladness can be aroused thus: "This being is indeed glad. How good, how excellent!" For this is what is referred to in the Vibhanga:
        > "And how does a bhikkhu dwell pervading one direction with his heart endued with gladness? Just as he would be glad on seeing a dear and beloved person, so he pervades all beings with gladness" (Vibh 274).
        >
        > 86. But if his boon companion or the dear person was happy in the past but is now unlucky and unfortunate, then gladness can still be aroused by remembering his past happiness and apprehending the glad aspect in this way: "In the past he had great wealth, a great following and he was always glad." Or gladness can be aroused by apprehending the future glad aspect in him in this way: "In the future he will again enjoy similar success and will go about in gold palanquins, on the backs of elephants or on horseback, and so on."
        >
        > Having thus aroused gladness with respect to a dear person, he can then direct it successively towards a neutral one, and after that towards a hostile one.
        >
        > 87. But if resentment towards the hostile one arises in him in the way already described, he should make it subside in the same way as described under lovingkindness (§§14–39).
        >
        > He should break down the barriers by means of mental impartiality towards the four, that is, towards these three and himself. And by cultivating that sign, developing and repeatedly practicing it, he should increase the absorption to triple and quadruple jhána in the way already stated under loving-kindness.
        >
        > Next, the versatility consisting in unspecified pervasion in five ways, specified pervasion in seven ways, and directional pervasion in ten ways, and also the advantages described as "He sleeps in comfort," etc., should be understood in the same way as stated under loving-kindness.
        >
        > This is the detailed explanation of the development of gladness."
        > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf
        > From: pp367-368 Chapter IX: The Divine Abidings
        > For Free Distribution, as a gift of Dhamma, from Access to Insight and the Buddhist Publication Society http://www.bps.lk
        >
        > With metta / Antony.
        >
      • antony272b2
        Hi Tep, - Buddhaghosa intended gladness to be the translation of mudita: Mudita - gladness is one of the divine abidings is always in the sense of gladness at
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 1, 2012
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          Hi Tep, -

          Buddhaghosa intended gladness to be the translation of mudita:
          "Mudita - gladness is one of the divine abidings is always in the sense of gladness at others' success sometimes rendered as "altruistic joy" and "sympathetic gladness".

          Antony: I reckon mudita is not vicarious joy but simply the meritorious //wish// for the others' gladness in the present moment to //continue//. This would not apply to the currently unfortunate who were glad in the past unless glad in the past meant performing meritorious deeds. I accept that mudita can be aroused knowing they are going to be glad in the future.

          Do you know of any suttas that might shed light on this dilemma?

          Thanks / Antony.

          --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "Tep Sastri" <indriyabala@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hi Antony, -
          >
          > I am glad to read your post on gladness. Allow me to provide additional reference for members who want to study further.
          >
          > Dhp 16: 'Here he rejoices, hereafter he rejoices; one who performed meritorious deeds rejoices in both existences. He rejoices and greatly rejoices when he sees the purity of his own deeds'.
          >
          > I looked up the Pali word for 'rejoice', guessing it means gladness. And my guess turns out to be correct.
          >
          > 'He rejoices and greatly rejoices when he sees the purity of his own deeds'. ['So modati so pamodati disvaa kamma visuddhimattano'].
          >
          > i) Pamodati means "rejoices; enjoys; is glad".
          > ii) paamojja : delight; joy; happiness.
          > http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/dict-pe/dictpe-17-p.htm
          >
          > So, it is a special kind of gladness, pamodati or paamojja, that is of interest to Buddhists who practice according to the Dhamma.
          >
          > Be well & happy,
          >
          > Tep
          > ===
          >
          > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@> wrote:
          > >
          > > "84. One who begins the development of gladness should not start with the dear person and the rest; for a dear person is not the proximate cause of gladness merely in virtue of dearness, how much less the neutral and the hostile person. One of the opposite sex and one who is dead are also not the field for it.
          > >
          > > 85. However, the very dear companion can be the proximate cause for it — one who in the commentaries is called a "boon companion," for he is constantly glad: he laughs first and speaks afterwards. So he should be the first to be pervaded with gladness. Or on seeing or hearing about a dear person being happy, cheerful and glad, gladness can be aroused thus: "This being is indeed glad. How good, how excellent!" For this is what is referred to in the Vibhanga:
          > > "And how does a bhikkhu dwell pervading one direction with his heart endued with gladness? Just as he would be glad on seeing a dear and beloved person, so he pervades all beings with gladness" (Vibh 274).
          > >
          > > 86. But if his boon companion or the dear person was happy in the past but is now unlucky and unfortunate, then gladness can still be aroused by remembering his past happiness and apprehending the glad aspect in this way: "In the past he had great wealth, a great following and he was always glad." Or gladness can be aroused by apprehending the future glad aspect in him in this way: "In the future he will again enjoy similar success and will go about in gold palanquins, on the backs of elephants or on horseback, and so on."
          > >
          > > Having thus aroused gladness with respect to a dear person, he can then direct it successively towards a neutral one, and after that towards a hostile one.
          > >
          > > 87. But if resentment towards the hostile one arises in him in the way already described, he should make it subside in the same way as described under lovingkindness (§§14–39).
          > >
          > > He should break down the barriers by means of mental impartiality towards the four, that is, towards these three and himself. And by cultivating that sign, developing and repeatedly practicing it, he should increase the absorption to triple and quadruple jhána in the way already stated under loving-kindness.
          > >
          > > Next, the versatility consisting in unspecified pervasion in five ways, specified pervasion in seven ways, and directional pervasion in ten ways, and also the advantages described as "He sleeps in comfort," etc., should be understood in the same way as stated under loving-kindness.
          > >
          > > This is the detailed explanation of the development of gladness."
          > > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf
          > > From: pp367-368 Chapter IX: The Divine Abidings
          > > For Free Distribution, as a gift of Dhamma, from Access to Insight and the Buddhist Publication Society http://www.bps.lk
          > >
          > > With metta / Antony.
          > >
          >
        • Tep Sastri
          Hi, Antony (Sharon et al.) - It is good to know that mudita in the Vism means gladness at others success sometimes rendered as altruistic joy and
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 2, 2012
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            Hi, Antony (Sharon et al.) -

            It is good to know that 'mudita' in the Vism means "gladness at others' success" sometimes rendered as "altruistic joy" and "sympathetic gladness".
            Gladness in the Suttas on the other hand, denotes delight, joy, or happiness.

            >Antony: Do you know of any suttas that might shed light on this dilemma?

            T: From the top of my head, no! But I'll keep your question in mind while studying more later.
            By the way, why do you care about the past versus future time of gladness?

            Be glad,

            Tep
            ===
            --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Tep, -
            >
            > Buddhaghosa intended gladness to be the translation of mudita:
            > "Mudita - gladness is one of the divine abidings is always in the sense of gladness at others' success sometimes rendered as "altruistic joy" and "sympathetic gladness".
            >
            > Antony: I reckon mudita is not vicarious joy but simply the meritorious //wish// for the others' gladness in the present moment to //continue//. This would not apply to the currently unfortunate who were glad in the past unless glad in the past meant performing meritorious deeds. I accept that mudita can be aroused knowing they are going to be glad in the future.
            >
            > Do you know of any suttas that might shed light on this dilemma?
            >
            > Thanks / Antony.
            >
            > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "Tep Sastri" <indriyabala@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi Antony, -
            > >
            > > I am glad to read your post on gladness. Allow me to provide additional reference for members who want to study further.
            > >
            > > Dhp 16: 'Here he rejoices, hereafter he rejoices; one who performed meritorious deeds rejoices in both existences. He rejoices and greatly rejoices when he sees the purity of his own deeds'.
            > >
            > > I looked up the Pali word for 'rejoice', guessing it means gladness. And my guess turns out to be correct.
            > >
            > > 'He rejoices and greatly rejoices when he sees the purity of his own deeds'. ['So modati so pamodati disvaa kamma visuddhimattano'].
            > >
            > > i) Pamodati means "rejoices; enjoys; is glad".
            > > ii) paamojja : delight; joy; happiness.
            > > http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/dict-pe/dictpe-17-p.htm
            > >
            > > So, it is a special kind of gladness, pamodati or paamojja, that is of interest to Buddhists who practice according to the Dhamma.
            > >
            > > Be well & happy,
            > >
            > > Tep
            > > ===
            > >
            > > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > "84. One who begins the development of gladness should not start with the dear person and the rest; for a dear person is not the proximate cause of gladness merely in virtue of dearness, how much less the neutral and the hostile person. One of the opposite sex and one who is dead are also not the field for it.
            > > >
            > > > 85. However, the very dear companion can be the proximate cause for it � one who in the commentaries is called a "boon companion," for he is constantly glad: he laughs first and speaks afterwards. So he should be the first to be pervaded with gladness. Or on seeing or hearing about a dear person being happy, cheerful and glad, gladness can be aroused thus: "This being is indeed glad. How good, how excellent!" For this is what is referred to in the Vibhanga:
            > > > "And how does a bhikkhu dwell pervading one direction with his heart endued with gladness? Just as he would be glad on seeing a dear and beloved person, so he pervades all beings with gladness" (Vibh 274).
            > > >
            > > > 86. But if his boon companion or the dear person was happy in the past but is now unlucky and unfortunate, then gladness can still be aroused by remembering his past happiness and apprehending the glad aspect in this way: "In the past he had great wealth, a great following and he was always glad." Or gladness can be aroused by apprehending the future glad aspect in him in this way: "In the future he will again enjoy similar success and will go about in gold palanquins, on the backs of elephants or on horseback, and so on."
            > > >
            > > > Having thus aroused gladness with respect to a dear person, he can then direct it successively towards a neutral one, and after that towards a hostile one.
            > > >
            > > > 87. But if resentment towards the hostile one arises in him in the way already described, he should make it subside in the same way as described under lovingkindness (��14�39).
            > > >
            > > > He should break down the barriers by means of mental impartiality towards the four, that is, towards these three and himself. And by cultivating that sign, developing and repeatedly practicing it, he should increase the absorption to triple and quadruple jh�na in the way already stated under loving-kindness.
            > > >
            > > > Next, the versatility consisting in unspecified pervasion in five ways, specified pervasion in seven ways, and directional pervasion in ten ways, and also the advantages described as "He sleeps in comfort," etc., should be understood in the same way as stated under loving-kindness.
            > > >
            > > > This is the detailed explanation of the development of gladness."
            > > > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf
            > > > From: pp367-368 Chapter IX: The Divine Abidings
            > > > For Free Distribution, as a gift of Dhamma, from Access to Insight and the Buddhist Publication Society http://www.bps.lk
            > > >
            > > > With metta / Antony.
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • antony272b2
            Hi, Tep - I thought that gladness (mudita) for past happiness went against the teachings in Majjhima 131 and 133: The Buddha: Let one not trace back the past
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 2, 2012
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              Hi, Tep -

              I thought that gladness (mudita) for past happiness went against the teachings in Majjhima 131 and 133:

              The Buddha:
              "Let one not trace back the past
              Or yearn for the future-yet-to-come.
              That which is past is left behind
              Unattained is the "yet-to-come."
              <snip>
              "And how, monks, does one trace back the past? He thinks: 'I was of such form in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such feeling in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such perception in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such formations in the past' and brings delight to bear on them. He thinks: 'I was of such consciousness in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. That is how, monks, one traces back the past.

              "And how, monks, does one not trace back the past? He thinks: 'I was of such form in the past' but brings no delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such feeling... of such perception... of such formations...'... He thinks: 'I was of such consciousness in the past' but brings no delight to bear on it. That is how, monks, one does not trace back the past.

              Ven MahaKaccana: "And how, friends, does one trace back the past? He thinks: 'Such was my eye in the past, such were forms' and his consciousness is bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is bound fast with desire-and-lust, he delights in it; delighting in it he traces back the past. He thinks: 'Such was my ear in the past, such were sounds... such was my nose in the past, such were smells... such was my tongue in the past, such were flavors... such was my body in the past, such were tangibles... such was my mind in the past, such were ideas,' and his consciousness is bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is bound fast by desire-and-lust, he delights in it; delighting in it he traces back the past. That is how, friends, one traces back the past.

              "And how, friends, does one not trace back the past? He thinks: 'Such was my eye in the past, such were forms' but without his consciousness being bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is not bound fast by desire-and-lust, he does not delight in it; not delighting in it, he does not trace back the past. He thinks: 'Such was my ear in the past, such were sounds'... '...nose... smells' ... '... tongue... flavors' ... '...body... tangibles'... 'Such was my mind in the past, such were ideas' but without his consciousness being bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is not bound fast by desire-and-lust, he does not delight in it; not delighting in it, he does not trace back the past. That is how, friends, one does not trace back the past.
              http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanananda/wheel188.html

              With metta / Antony.

              --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "Tep Sastri" <indriyabala@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hi, Antony (Sharon et al.) -
              >
              > It is good to know that 'mudita' in the Vism means "gladness at others' success" sometimes rendered as "altruistic joy" and "sympathetic gladness".
              > Gladness in the Suttas on the other hand, denotes delight, joy, or happiness.
              >
              > >Antony: Do you know of any suttas that might shed light on this dilemma?
              >
              > T: From the top of my head, no! But I'll keep your question in mind while studying more later.
              > By the way, why do you care about the past versus future time of gladness?
              >
              > Be glad,
              >
              > Tep
              > ===
              > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Tep, -
              > >
              > > Buddhaghosa intended gladness to be the translation of mudita:
              > > "Mudita - gladness is one of the divine abidings is always in the sense of gladness at others' success sometimes rendered as "altruistic joy" and "sympathetic gladness".
              > >
              > > Antony: I reckon mudita is not vicarious joy but simply the meritorious //wish// for the others' gladness in the present moment to //continue//. This would not apply to the currently unfortunate who were glad in the past unless glad in the past meant performing meritorious deeds. I accept that mudita can be aroused knowing they are going to be glad in the future.
              > >
              > > Do you know of any suttas that might shed light on this dilemma?
              > >
              > > Thanks / Antony.
              > >
              > > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "Tep Sastri" <indriyabala@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Hi Antony, -
              > > >
              > > > I am glad to read your post on gladness. Allow me to provide additional reference for members who want to study further.
              > > >
              > > > Dhp 16: 'Here he rejoices, hereafter he rejoices; one who performed meritorious deeds rejoices in both existences. He rejoices and greatly rejoices when he sees the purity of his own deeds'.
              > > >
              > > > I looked up the Pali word for 'rejoice', guessing it means gladness. And my guess turns out to be correct.
              > > >
              > > > 'He rejoices and greatly rejoices when he sees the purity of his own deeds'. ['So modati so pamodati disvaa kamma visuddhimattano'].
              > > >
              > > > i) Pamodati means "rejoices; enjoys; is glad".
              > > > ii) paamojja : delight; joy; happiness.
              > > > http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/dict-pe/dictpe-17-p.htm
              > > >
              > > > So, it is a special kind of gladness, pamodati or paamojja, that is of interest to Buddhists who practice according to the Dhamma.
              > > >
              > > > Be well & happy,
              > > >
              > > > Tep
              > > > ===
              > > >
              > > > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > "84. One who begins the development of gladness should not start with the dear person and the rest; for a dear person is not the proximate cause of gladness merely in virtue of dearness, how much less the neutral and the hostile person. One of the opposite sex and one who is dead are also not the field for it.
              > > > >
              > > > > 85. However, the very dear companion can be the proximate cause for it one who in the commentaries is called a "boon companion," for he is constantly glad: he laughs first and speaks afterwards. So he should be the first to be pervaded with gladness. Or on seeing or hearing about a dear person being happy, cheerful and glad, gladness can be aroused thus: "This being is indeed glad. How good, how excellent!" For this is what is referred to in the Vibhanga:
              > > > > "And how does a bhikkhu dwell pervading one direction with his heart endued with gladness? Just as he would be glad on seeing a dear and beloved person, so he pervades all beings with gladness" (Vibh 274).
              > > > >
              > > > > 86. But if his boon companion or the dear person was happy in the past but is now unlucky and unfortunate, then gladness can still be aroused by remembering his past happiness and apprehending the glad aspect in this way: "In the past he had great wealth, a great following and he was always glad." Or gladness can be aroused by apprehending the future glad aspect in him in this way: "In the future he will again enjoy similar success and will go about in gold palanquins, on the backs of elephants or on horseback, and so on."
              > > > >
              > > > > Having thus aroused gladness with respect to a dear person, he can then direct it successively towards a neutral one, and after that towards a hostile one.
              > > > >
              > > > > 87. But if resentment towards the hostile one arises in him in the way already described, he should make it subside in the same way as described under lovingkindness (39).
              > > > >
              > > > > He should break down the barriers by means of mental impartiality towards the four, that is, towards these three and himself. And by cultivating that sign, developing and repeatedly practicing it, he should increase the absorption to triple and quadruple jhana in the way already stated under loving-kindness.
              > > > >
              > > > > Next, the versatility consisting in unspecified pervasion in five ways, specified pervasion in seven ways, and directional pervasion in ten ways, and also the advantages described as "He sleeps in comfort," etc., should be understood in the same way as stated under loving-kindness.
              > > > >
              > > > > This is the detailed explanation of the development of gladness."
              > > > > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf
              > > > > From: pp367-368 Chapter IX: The Divine Abidings
              > > > > For Free Distribution, as a gift of Dhamma, from Access to Insight and the Buddhist Publication Society http://www.bps.lk
              > > > >
              > > > > With metta / Antony.
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • antony272b2
              More comments below: To: Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com From: antony272b@hotmail.com Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 16:01:24 +0000 Subject: [Buddhaviharas] Re:
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 2, 2012
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                More comments below:

                To: Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com
                From: antony272b@...
                Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 16:01:24 +0000
                Subject: [Buddhaviharas] Re: Visuddhimagga IX.84-87 Gladness

                Hi, Tep -

                I thought that gladness (mudita) for past happiness went against the teachings in Majjhima 131 and 133:

                The Buddha:
                "Let one not trace back the past
                Or yearn for the future-yet-to-come.
                That which is past is left behind
                Unattained is the "yet-to-come."
                <snip>
                "And how, monks, does one trace back the past? He thinks: 'I was of such form in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such feeling in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such perception in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such formations in the past' and brings delight to bear on them. He thinks: 'I was of such consciousness in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. That is how, monks, one traces back the past.

                "And how, monks, does one not trace back the past? He thinks: 'I was of such form in the past' but brings no delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such feeling... of such perception... of such formations...'... He thinks: 'I was of such consciousness in the past' but brings no delight to bear on it. That is how, monks, one does not trace back the past.

                Ven MahaKaccana: "And how, friends, does one trace back the past? He thinks: 'Such was my eye in the past, such were forms' and his consciousness is bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is bound fast with desire-and-lust, he delights in it; delighting in it he traces back the past. He thinks: 'Such was my ear in the past, such were sounds... such was my nose in the past, such were smells... such was my tongue in the past, such were flavors... such was my body in the past, such were tangibles... such was my mind in the past, such were ideas,' and his consciousness is bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is bound fast by desire-and-lust, he delights in it; delighting in it he traces back the past. That is how, friends, one traces back the past.

                "And how, friends, does one not trace back the past? He thinks: 'Such was my eye in the past, such were forms' but without his consciousness being bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is not bound fast by desire-and-lust, he does not delight in it; not delighting in it, he does not trace back the past. He thinks: 'Such was my ear in the past, such were sounds'... '...nose... smells' ... '... tongue... flavors' ... '...body... tangibles'... 'Such was my mind in the past, such were ideas' but without his consciousness being bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is not bound fast by desire-and-lust, he does not delight in it; not delighting in it, he does not trace back the past. That is how, friends, one does not trace back the past.
                http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanananda/wheel188.html

                With metta / Antony.
                +++++
                Antony: I neglected to read MahaKaccana's teaching before posting. So "bringing delight to bear on it" means bound fast by desire-and-lust rather than paamojja.

                With metta / Antony.

                --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "Tep Sastri" <indriyabala@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hi, Antony (Sharon et al.) -
                >
                > It is good to know that 'mudita' in the Vism means "gladness at others' success" sometimes rendered as "altruistic joy" and "sympathetic gladness".
                > Gladness in the Suttas on the other hand, denotes delight, joy, or happiness.
                >
                > >Antony: Do you know of any suttas that might shed light on this dilemma?
                >
                > T: From the top of my head, no! But I'll keep your question in mind while studying more later.
                > By the way, why do you care about the past versus future time of gladness?
                >
                > Be glad,
                >
                > Tep
                > ===
                > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Tep, -
                > >
                > > Buddhaghosa intended gladness to be the translation of mudita:
                > > "Mudita - gladness is one of the divine abidings is always in the sense of gladness at others' success sometimes rendered as "altruistic joy" and "sympathetic gladness".
                > >
                > > Antony: I reckon mudita is not vicarious joy but simply the meritorious //wish// for the others' gladness in the present moment to //continue//. This would not apply to the currently unfortunate who were glad in the past unless glad in the past meant performing meritorious deeds. I accept that mudita can be aroused knowing they are going to be glad in the future.
                > >
                > > Do you know of any suttas that might shed light on this dilemma?
                > >
                > > Thanks / Antony.
                > >
                > > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "Tep Sastri" <indriyabala@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Hi Antony, -
                > > >
                > > > I am glad to read your post on gladness. Allow me to provide additional reference for members who want to study further.
                > > >
                > > > Dhp 16: 'Here he rejoices, hereafter he rejoices; one who performed meritorious deeds rejoices in both existences. He rejoices and greatly rejoices when he sees the purity of his own deeds'.
                > > >
                > > > I looked up the Pali word for 'rejoice', guessing it means gladness. And my guess turns out to be correct.
                > > >
                > > > 'He rejoices and greatly rejoices when he sees the purity of his own deeds'. ['So modati so pamodati disvaa kamma visuddhimattano'].
                > > >
                > > > i) Pamodati means "rejoices; enjoys; is glad".
                > > > ii) paamojja : delight; joy; happiness.
                > > > http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/dict-pe/dictpe-17-p.htm
                > > >
                > > > So, it is a special kind of gladness, pamodati or paamojja, that is of interest to Buddhists who practice according to the Dhamma.
                > > >
                > > > Be well & happy,
                > > >
                > > > Tep
                > > > ===
                > > >
                > > > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > "84. One who begins the development of gladness should not start with the dear person and the rest; for a dear person is not the proximate cause of gladness merely in virtue of dearness, how much less the neutral and the hostile person. One of the opposite sex and one who is dead are also not the field for it.
                > > > >
                > > > > 85. However, the very dear companion can be the proximate cause for it one who in the commentaries is called a "boon companion," for he is constantly glad: he laughs first and speaks afterwards. So he should be the first to be pervaded with gladness. Or on seeing or hearing about a dear person being happy, cheerful and glad, gladness can be aroused thus: "This being is indeed glad. How good, how excellent!" For this is what is referred to in the Vibhanga:
                > > > > "And how does a bhikkhu dwell pervading one direction with his heart endued with gladness? Just as he would be glad on seeing a dear and beloved person, so he pervades all beings with gladness" (Vibh 274).
                > > > >
                > > > > 86. But if his boon companion or the dear person was happy in the past but is now unlucky and unfortunate, then gladness can still be aroused by remembering his past happiness and apprehending the glad aspect in this way: "In the past he had great wealth, a great following and he was always glad." Or gladness can be aroused by apprehending the future glad aspect in him in this way: "In the future he will again enjoy similar success and will go about in gold palanquins, on the backs of elephants or on horseback, and so on."
                > > > >
                > > > > Having thus aroused gladness with respect to a dear person, he can then direct it successively towards a neutral one, and after that towards a hostile one.
                > > > >
                > > > > 87. But if resentment towards the hostile one arises in him in the way already described, he should make it subside in the same way as described under lovingkindness (39).
                > > > >
                > > > > He should break down the barriers by means of mental impartiality towards the four, that is, towards these three and himself. And by cultivating that sign, developing and repeatedly practicing it, he should increase the absorption to triple and quadruple jhana in the way already stated under loving-kindness.
                > > > >
                > > > > Next, the versatility consisting in unspecified pervasion in five ways, specified pervasion in seven ways, and directional pervasion in ten ways, and also the advantages described as "He sleeps in comfort," etc., should be understood in the same way as stated under loving-kindness.
                > > > >
                > > > > This is the detailed explanation of the development of gladness."
                > > > > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf
                > > > > From: pp367-368 Chapter IX: The Divine Abidings
                > > > > For Free Distribution, as a gift of Dhamma, from Access to Insight and the Buddhist Publication Society http://www.bps.lk
                > > > >
                > > > > With metta / Antony.
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • antony272b2
                Hi Tep, ... I found this Note to Majjhima 131 by Bhikkhu Bodhi: 1215. MA: One finds delight by bringing to bear upon the past either craving or a view
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 3, 2012
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Tep,

                  > "And how, monks, does one trace back the past?
                  > He thinks: 'I was of such form in the past'
                  > and brings delight to bear on it.

                  I found this Note to Majjhima 131 by Bhikkhu Bodhi:
                  "1215. MA: One "finds delight" by bringing to bear upon the past either craving or a view associated with craving. It should be noted that it is not the mere recollection of the past through memory that causes bondage, but the reliving of past experiences with thoughts of craving. In this respect the Buddha's teaching differs significantly from that of Krishnamurti, who seems to regard memory itself as the villain behind the scene."

                  Antony: So delight here is different from paamojja let alone mudita. What would be a skillful way of deriving happiness from the past?

                  Thanks / Antony.

                  --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > More comments below:
                  >
                  > To: Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: antony272b@...
                  > Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 16:01:24 +0000
                  > Subject: [Buddhaviharas] Re: Visuddhimagga IX.84-87 Gladness
                  >
                  > Hi, Tep -
                  >
                  > I thought that gladness (mudita) for past happiness went against the teachings in Majjhima 131 and 133:
                  >
                  > The Buddha:
                  > "Let one not trace back the past
                  > Or yearn for the future-yet-to-come.
                  > That which is past is left behind
                  > Unattained is the "yet-to-come."
                  > <snip>
                  > "And how, monks, does one trace back the past? He thinks: 'I was of such form in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such feeling in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such perception in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such formations in the past' and brings delight to bear on them. He thinks: 'I was of such consciousness in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. That is how, monks, one traces back the past.
                  >
                  > "And how, monks, does one not trace back the past? He thinks: 'I was of such form in the past' but brings no delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such feeling... of such perception... of such formations...'... He thinks: 'I was of such consciousness in the past' but brings no delight to bear on it. That is how, monks, one does not trace back the past.
                  >
                  > Ven MahaKaccana: "And how, friends, does one trace back the past? He thinks: 'Such was my eye in the past, such were forms' and his consciousness is bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is bound fast with desire-and-lust, he delights in it; delighting in it he traces back the past. He thinks: 'Such was my ear in the past, such were sounds... such was my nose in the past, such were smells... such was my tongue in the past, such were flavors... such was my body in the past, such were tangibles... such was my mind in the past, such were ideas,' and his consciousness is bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is bound fast by desire-and-lust, he delights in it; delighting in it he traces back the past. That is how, friends, one traces back the past.
                  >
                  > "And how, friends, does one not trace back the past? He thinks: 'Such was my eye in the past, such were forms' but without his consciousness being bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is not bound fast by desire-and-lust, he does not delight in it; not delighting in it, he does not trace back the past. He thinks: 'Such was my ear in the past, such were sounds'... '...nose... smells' ... '... tongue... flavors' ... '...body... tangibles'... 'Such was my mind in the past, such were ideas' but without his consciousness being bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is not bound fast by desire-and-lust, he does not delight in it; not delighting in it, he does not trace back the past. That is how, friends, one does not trace back the past.
                  > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanananda/wheel188.html
                  >
                  > With metta / Antony.
                  > +++++
                  > Antony: I neglected to read MahaKaccana's teaching before posting. So "bringing delight to bear on it" means bound fast by desire-and-lust rather than paamojja.
                  >
                  > With metta / Antony.
                  >
                  > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "Tep Sastri" <indriyabala@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi, Antony (Sharon et al.) -
                  > >
                  > > It is good to know that 'mudita' in the Vism means "gladness at others' success" sometimes rendered as "altruistic joy" and "sympathetic gladness".
                  > > Gladness in the Suttas on the other hand, denotes delight, joy, or happiness.
                  > >
                  > > >Antony: Do you know of any suttas that might shed light on this dilemma?
                  > >
                  > > T: From the top of my head, no! But I'll keep your question in mind while studying more later.
                  > > By the way, why do you care about the past versus future time of gladness?
                  > >
                  > > Be glad,
                  > >
                  > > Tep
                  > > ===
                  > > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi Tep, -
                  > > >
                  > > > Buddhaghosa intended gladness to be the translation of mudita:
                  > > > "Mudita - gladness is one of the divine abidings is always in the sense of gladness at others' success sometimes rendered as "altruistic joy" and "sympathetic gladness".
                  > > >
                  > > > Antony: I reckon mudita is not vicarious joy but simply the meritorious //wish// for the others' gladness in the present moment to //continue//. This would not apply to the currently unfortunate who were glad in the past unless glad in the past meant performing meritorious deeds. I accept that mudita can be aroused knowing they are going to be glad in the future.
                  > > >
                  > > > Do you know of any suttas that might shed light on this dilemma?
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks / Antony.
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "Tep Sastri" <indriyabala@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hi Antony, -
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I am glad to read your post on gladness. Allow me to provide additional reference for members who want to study further.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Dhp 16: 'Here he rejoices, hereafter he rejoices; one who performed meritorious deeds rejoices in both existences. He rejoices and greatly rejoices when he sees the purity of his own deeds'.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > I looked up the Pali word for 'rejoice', guessing it means gladness. And my guess turns out to be correct.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > 'He rejoices and greatly rejoices when he sees the purity of his own deeds'. ['So modati so pamodati disvaa kamma visuddhimattano'].
                  > > > >
                  > > > > i) Pamodati means "rejoices; enjoys; is glad".
                  > > > > ii) paamojja : delight; joy; happiness.
                  > > > > http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/dict-pe/dictpe-17-p.htm
                  > > > >
                  > > > > So, it is a special kind of gladness, pamodati or paamojja, that is of interest to Buddhists who practice according to the Dhamma.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Be well & happy,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Tep
                  > > > > ===
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > "84. One who begins the development of gladness should not start with the dear person and the rest; for a dear person is not the proximate cause of gladness merely in virtue of dearness, how much less the neutral and the hostile person. One of the opposite sex and one who is dead are also not the field for it.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > 85. However, the very dear companion can be the proximate cause for it one who in the commentaries is called a "boon companion," for he is constantly glad: he laughs first and speaks afterwards. So he should be the first to be pervaded with gladness. Or on seeing or hearing about a dear person being happy, cheerful and glad, gladness can be aroused thus: "This being is indeed glad. How good, how excellent!" For this is what is referred to in the Vibhanga:
                  > > > > > "And how does a bhikkhu dwell pervading one direction with his heart endued with gladness? Just as he would be glad on seeing a dear and beloved person, so he pervades all beings with gladness" (Vibh 274).
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > 86. But if his boon companion or the dear person was happy in the past but is now unlucky and unfortunate, then gladness can still be aroused by remembering his past happiness and apprehending the glad aspect in this way: "In the past he had great wealth, a great following and he was always glad." Or gladness can be aroused by apprehending the future glad aspect in him in this way: "In the future he will again enjoy similar success and will go about in gold palanquins, on the backs of elephants or on horseback, and so on."
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Having thus aroused gladness with respect to a dear person, he can then direct it successively towards a neutral one, and after that towards a hostile one.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > 87. But if resentment towards the hostile one arises in him in the way already described, he should make it subside in the same way as described under lovingkindness (39).
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > He should break down the barriers by means of mental impartiality towards the four, that is, towards these three and himself. And by cultivating that sign, developing and repeatedly practicing it, he should increase the absorption to triple and quadruple jhana in the way already stated under loving-kindness.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Next, the versatility consisting in unspecified pervasion in five ways, specified pervasion in seven ways, and directional pervasion in ten ways, and also the advantages described as "He sleeps in comfort," etc., should be understood in the same way as stated under loving-kindness.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > This is the detailed explanation of the development of gladness."
                  > > > > > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf
                  > > > > > From: pp367-368 Chapter IX: The Divine Abidings
                  > > > > > For Free Distribution, as a gift of Dhamma, from Access to Insight and the Buddhist Publication Society http://www.bps.lk
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > With metta / Antony.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Tep Sastri
                  Hi Antony, - According to Bhikkhu Bodhi s note to MN 131, finding delight in a past experience is due to thoughts of craving. And you asked: So delight here
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 4, 2012
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                    Hi Antony, -

                    According to Bhikkhu Bodhi's note to MN 131, finding delight in a past experience is due to thoughts of craving. And you asked: "So delight here is different from paamojja let alone mudita. What would be a skillful way of deriving happiness from the past?". I think the skillful way is to know (mindfully aware) when there is happiness with or without clinging. Happiness, joy or gladness that is not accompanied by perception of self is skillful.

                    Be well,

                    Tep
                    ===
                    --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Tep,
                    >
                    > > "And how, monks, does one trace back the past?
                    > > He thinks: 'I was of such form in the past'
                    > > and brings delight to bear on it.
                    >
                    > I found this Note to Majjhima 131 by Bhikkhu Bodhi:
                    > "1215. MA: One "finds delight" by bringing to bear upon the past either craving or a view associated with craving. It should be noted that it is not the mere recollection of the past through memory that causes bondage, but the reliving of past experiences with thoughts of craving. In this respect the Buddha's teaching differs significantly from that of Krishnamurti, who seems to regard memory itself as the villain behind the scene."
                    >
                    > Antony: So delight here is different from paamojja let alone mudita. What would be a skillful way of deriving happiness from the past?
                    >
                    > Thanks / Antony.
                    >
                    > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > More comments below:
                    > >
                    > > To: Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com
                    > > From: antony272b@
                    > > Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 16:01:24 +0000
                    > > Subject: [Buddhaviharas] Re: Visuddhimagga IX.84-87 Gladness
                    > >
                    > > Hi, Tep -
                    > >
                    > > I thought that gladness (mudita) for past happiness went against the teachings in Majjhima 131 and 133:
                    > >
                    > > The Buddha:
                    > > "Let one not trace back the past
                    > > Or yearn for the future-yet-to-come.
                    > > That which is past is left behind
                    > > Unattained is the "yet-to-come."
                    > > <snip>
                    > > "And how, monks, does one trace back the past? He thinks: 'I was of such form in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such feeling in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such perception in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such formations in the past' and brings delight to bear on them. He thinks: 'I was of such consciousness in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. That is how, monks, one traces back the past.
                    > >
                    > > "And how, monks, does one not trace back the past? He thinks: 'I was of such form in the past' but brings no delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such feeling... of such perception... of such formations...'... He thinks: 'I was of such consciousness in the past' but brings no delight to bear on it. That is how, monks, one does not trace back the past.
                    > >
                    > > Ven MahaKaccana: "And how, friends, does one trace back the past? He thinks: 'Such was my eye in the past, such were forms' and his consciousness is bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is bound fast with desire-and-lust, he delights in it; delighting in it he traces back the past. He thinks: 'Such was my ear in the past, such were sounds... such was my nose in the past, such were smells... such was my tongue in the past, such were flavors... such was my body in the past, such were tangibles... such was my mind in the past, such were ideas,' and his consciousness is bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is bound fast by desire-and-lust, he delights in it; delighting in it he traces back the past. That is how, friends, one traces back the past.
                    > >
                    > > "And how, friends, does one not trace back the past? He thinks: 'Such was my eye in the past, such were forms' but without his consciousness being bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is not bound fast by desire-and-lust, he does not delight in it; not delighting in it, he does not trace back the past. He thinks: 'Such was my ear in the past, such were sounds'... '...nose... smells' ... '... tongue... flavors' ... '...body... tangibles'... 'Such was my mind in the past, such were ideas' but without his consciousness being bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is not bound fast by desire-and-lust, he does not delight in it; not delighting in it, he does not trace back the past. That is how, friends, one does not trace back the past.
                    > > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanananda/wheel188.html
                    > >
                    > > With metta / Antony.
                    > > +++++
                    > > Antony: I neglected to read MahaKaccana's teaching before posting. So "bringing delight to bear on it" means bound fast by desire-and-lust rather than paamojja.
                    > >
                    > > With metta / Antony.
                    > >
                    > > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "Tep Sastri" <indriyabala@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi, Antony (Sharon et al.) -
                    > > >
                    > > > It is good to know that 'mudita' in the Vism means "gladness at others' success" sometimes rendered as "altruistic joy" and "sympathetic gladness".
                    > > > Gladness in the Suttas on the other hand, denotes delight, joy, or happiness.
                    > > >
                    > > > >Antony: Do you know of any suttas that might shed light on this dilemma?
                    > > >
                    > > > T: From the top of my head, no! But I'll keep your question in mind while studying more later.
                    > > > By the way, why do you care about the past versus future time of gladness?
                    > > >
                    > > > Be glad,
                    > > >
                    > > > Tep
                    > > > ===
                    <snipped by Tep>
                  • antony272b2
                    100. Gladness has joy based on the home life as its near enemy, since both share in seeing success. Such joy has been described in the way beginning, When a
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 6, 2012
                    • 0 Attachment
                      "100. Gladness has joy based on the home life as its near enemy, since both share in seeing success. Such joy has been described in the way beginning, "When a man either regards as gain the obtaining of visible objects cognizable by the eye that are sought ... and associated with worldliness, or recalls those formerly obtained that are past, ceased, and changed, then joy arises in him. Such joy as this is called joy based on the home life" (M III 217)."
                      http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf
                      From: p371 Chapter IX: The Divine Abidings
                      For Free Distribution, as a gift of Dhamma, from Access to Insight and the Buddhist Publication Society http://www.bps.lk

                      Antony: So joy with remembering my favorite 1984 pop song (it would be great to have it as a ringtone on my mobile phone) should be tempered with the knowledge that any tune has to come to an end after a few minutes and it would be suffering if it didn't so I should look elsewhere for a happiness based on the inner beauty of a liberated mind.

                      With metta / Antony.

                      --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "Tep Sastri" <indriyabala@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Antony, -
                      >
                      > According to Bhikkhu Bodhi's note to MN 131, finding delight in a past experience is due to thoughts of craving. And you asked: "So delight here is different from paamojja let alone mudita. What would be a skillful way of deriving happiness from the past?". I think the skillful way is to know (mindfully aware) when there is happiness with or without clinging. Happiness, joy or gladness that is not accompanied by perception of self is skillful.
                      >
                      > Be well,
                      >
                      > Tep
                      > ===
                      > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi Tep,
                      > >
                      > > > "And how, monks, does one trace back the past?
                      > > > He thinks: 'I was of such form in the past'
                      > > > and brings delight to bear on it.
                      > >
                      > > I found this Note to Majjhima 131 by Bhikkhu Bodhi:
                      > > "1215. MA: One "finds delight" by bringing to bear upon the past either craving or a view associated with craving. It should be noted that it is not the mere recollection of the past through memory that causes bondage, but the reliving of past experiences with thoughts of craving. In this respect the Buddha's teaching differs significantly from that of Krishnamurti, who seems to regard memory itself as the villain behind the scene."
                      > >
                      > > Antony: So delight here is different from paamojja let alone mudita. What would be a skillful way of deriving happiness from the past?
                      > >
                      > > Thanks / Antony.
                      > >
                      > > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > More comments below:
                      > > >
                      > > > To: Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > From: antony272b@
                      > > > Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 16:01:24 +0000
                      > > > Subject: [Buddhaviharas] Re: Visuddhimagga IX.84-87 Gladness
                      > > >
                      > > > Hi, Tep -
                      > > >
                      > > > I thought that gladness (mudita) for past happiness went against the teachings in Majjhima 131 and 133:
                      > > >
                      > > > The Buddha:
                      > > > "Let one not trace back the past
                      > > > Or yearn for the future-yet-to-come.
                      > > > That which is past is left behind
                      > > > Unattained is the "yet-to-come."
                      > > > <snip>
                      > > > "And how, monks, does one trace back the past? He thinks: 'I was of such form in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such feeling in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such perception in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such formations in the past' and brings delight to bear on them. He thinks: 'I was of such consciousness in the past' and brings delight to bear on it. That is how, monks, one traces back the past.
                      > > >
                      > > > "And how, monks, does one not trace back the past? He thinks: 'I was of such form in the past' but brings no delight to bear on it. He thinks: 'I was of such feeling... of such perception... of such formations...'... He thinks: 'I was of such consciousness in the past' but brings no delight to bear on it. That is how, monks, one does not trace back the past.
                      > > >
                      > > > Ven MahaKaccana: "And how, friends, does one trace back the past? He thinks: 'Such was my eye in the past, such were forms' and his consciousness is bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is bound fast with desire-and-lust, he delights in it; delighting in it he traces back the past. He thinks: 'Such was my ear in the past, such were sounds... such was my nose in the past, such were smells... such was my tongue in the past, such were flavors... such was my body in the past, such were tangibles... such was my mind in the past, such were ideas,' and his consciousness is bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is bound fast by desire-and-lust, he delights in it; delighting in it he traces back the past. That is how, friends, one traces back the past.
                      > > >
                      > > > "And how, friends, does one not trace back the past? He thinks: 'Such was my eye in the past, such were forms' but without his consciousness being bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is not bound fast by desire-and-lust, he does not delight in it; not delighting in it, he does not trace back the past. He thinks: 'Such was my ear in the past, such were sounds'... '...nose... smells' ... '... tongue... flavors' ... '...body... tangibles'... 'Such was my mind in the past, such were ideas' but without his consciousness being bound fast there by desire-and-lust. Because his consciousness is not bound fast by desire-and-lust, he does not delight in it; not delighting in it, he does not trace back the past. That is how, friends, one does not trace back the past.
                      > > > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanananda/wheel188.html
                      > > >
                      > > > With metta / Antony.
                      > > > +++++
                      > > > Antony: I neglected to read MahaKaccana's teaching before posting. So "bringing delight to bear on it" means bound fast by desire-and-lust rather than paamojja.
                      > > >
                      > > > With metta / Antony.
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "Tep Sastri" <indriyabala@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hi, Antony (Sharon et al.) -
                      > > > >
                      > > > > It is good to know that 'mudita' in the Vism means "gladness at others' success" sometimes rendered as "altruistic joy" and "sympathetic gladness".
                      > > > > Gladness in the Suttas on the other hand, denotes delight, joy, or happiness.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >Antony: Do you know of any suttas that might shed light on this dilemma?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > T: From the top of my head, no! But I'll keep your question in mind while studying more later.
                      > > > > By the way, why do you care about the past versus future time of gladness?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Be glad,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Tep
                      > > > > ===
                      > <snipped by Tep>
                      >
                    • antony272b2
                      100 ... aversion (boredom), which is dissimilar to the similar joy, is its far enemy. So gladness should be practiced free from fear of that; for it is not
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 8, 2012
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                        "100 ... aversion (boredom), which is dissimilar to the similar joy, is its far enemy. So gladness should be practiced free from fear of that; for it is not possible to practice gladness and be discontented with remote abodes and things connected with the higher profitableness simultaneously."
                        http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf
                        From: p371 Chapter IX: The Divine Abidings
                        For Free Distribution, as a gift of Dhamma, from Access to Insight and the Buddhist Publication Society http://www.bps.lk

                        Antony: I'm trying a new mudita technique, remembering with gratitude even just one sentence uttered or one action performed by a person that has been a factor in my cheerfulness and/or sense of humor.

                        Please visit my Yahoo Groups:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GratitudeInspiration
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CheerfulVoice
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/humility-humor

                        With metta / Antony.

                        --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > "100. Gladness has joy based on the home life as its near enemy, since both share in seeing success. Such joy has been described in the way beginning, "When a man either regards as gain the obtaining of visible objects cognizable by the eye that are sought ... and associated with worldliness, or recalls those formerly obtained that are past, ceased, and changed, then joy arises in him. Such joy as this is called joy based on the home life" (M III 217)."
                        > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf
                        > From: p371 Chapter IX: The Divine Abidings
                        > For Free Distribution, as a gift of Dhamma, from Access to Insight and the Buddhist Publication Society http://www.bps.lk
                        >
                        > Antony: So joy with remembering my favorite 1984 pop song (it would be great to have it as a ringtone on my mobile phone) should be tempered with the knowledge that any tune has to come to an end after a few minutes and it would be suffering if it didn't so I should look elsewhere for a happiness based on the inner beauty of a liberated mind.
                        >
                        > With metta / Antony.
                      • Tep Sastri
                        Hi, Antony - Sorry, my friend, I can t help disagreeing with part of the following quote: ... aversion (boredom), which is dissimilar to the similar joy, is
                        Message 11 of 11 , Nov 10, 2012
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                          Hi, Antony -

                          Sorry, my friend, I can't help disagreeing with part of the following quote:

                          " ... aversion (boredom), which is dissimilar to the similar joy, is its far enemy. So gladness should be practiced free from fear of that; ...".

                          My reasons:

                          1. Aversion is not boredom. Aversion is 'pa.tigha', while boredom is 'arati'. But I can, and am willing to, be wrong.
                          2. Gladness is a result of one's reflection on the Dhamma or one's own virtues, for example. It is not practicable!

                          Be happy,

                          Tep
                          ===
                          --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > "100 ... aversion (boredom), which is dissimilar to the similar joy, is its far enemy. So gladness should be practiced free from fear of that; for it is not possible to practice gladness and be discontented with remote abodes and things connected with the higher profitableness simultaneously."
                          > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf
                          > From: p371 Chapter IX: The Divine Abidings
                          > For Free Distribution, as a gift of Dhamma, from Access to Insight and the Buddhist Publication Society http://www.bps.lk
                          >
                          > Antony: I'm trying a new mudita technique, remembering with gratitude even just one sentence uttered or one action performed by a person that has been a factor in my cheerfulness and/or sense of humor.
                          >
                          > Please visit my Yahoo Groups:
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GratitudeInspiration
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CheerfulVoice
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/humility-humor
                          >
                          > With metta / Antony.
                          >
                          > --- In Buddhaviharas@yahoogroups.com, "antony272b2" <antony272b@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > "100. Gladness has joy based on the home life as its near enemy, since both share in seeing success. Such joy has been described in the way beginning, "When a man either regards as gain the obtaining of visible objects cognizable by the eye that are sought ... and associated with worldliness, or recalls those formerly obtained that are past, ceased, and changed, then joy arises in him. Such joy as this is called joy based on the home life" (M III 217)."
                          > > http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf
                          > > From: p371 Chapter IX: The Divine Abidings
                          > > For Free Distribution, as a gift of Dhamma, from Access to Insight and the Buddhist Publication Society http://www.bps.lk
                          > >
                          > > Antony: So joy with remembering my favorite 1984 pop song (it would be great to have it as a ringtone on my mobile phone) should be tempered with the knowledge that any tune has to come to an end after a few minutes and it would be suffering if it didn't so I should look elsewhere for a happiness based on the inner beauty of a liberated mind.
                          > >
                          > > With metta / Antony.
                          >
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