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Re: Mash tun - grain or water first?

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  • Chris Yate
    I add grain to water now, but I ve done it both ways. In my old double-bucket system I added about 3l of hot water, then the grains, then the rest of the
    Message 1 of 23 , Apr 1, 2010
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      I add grain to water now, but I've done it both ways.

      In my old double-bucket system I added about 3l of hot water, then the grains, then the rest of the water.  
      As the buckets weren't particularly well insulating I think it makes sense to add the grain first (which have a higher heat capacity than water (??)).
      It was fairly easy to stir it all up because of the false bottom.

      However,  now I use a slotted copper manifold in a large stainless insulated vessel, and it's rather harder to stir the bottom of the pot.  

      I add mash water to the pot about 5'C hotter than ProMash/ BeerSmith dictates for the infusion temp.  This pre-warms the container.  Then I pour grain onto the water steadily, from a small bucket, stirring as it goes in.  This helps to ensure that all the grain is wetted properly.  

      I have had far fewer problems with dry spots using this method.

      Chris

    • Jamie McCarty
      If we are talking about cooking rice... here is my recommendation. while you are heating your water to boil, in the pot that you are actually going to cook the
      Message 2 of 23 , Apr 1, 2010
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        If we are talking about cooking rice... here is my recommendation.

        while you are heating your water to boil, in the pot that you are actually going to cook the rice in, put the rice and some oil or grease and start heating the rice on low.  You need to continuously stir the rice, but gives a great flavor to have the rice slightly heated when you add the boiling water on top.

        On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Doug Rooney <drooney57@...> wrote:
         

        I used to add water to my grain, but on a few occasions, had thing muck up and stick.
        I was talking to my LHBS folks and the Mrs.. Owner said when ever she cooks rice or grain or pasta, she always adds the items to the water.
        So I decided to try it, and I have never had any sticking issue since switching, so I highly recommend adding the grain to the water.
        My 2¢
         

        Cheers

        -Dr. Doug

         

      • Denis Barsalo
        It s rather interesting how different processes (mashing in) end up to the same result (craft beer.) Several large breweries run their grain and water into a
        Message 3 of 23 , Apr 1, 2010
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          It's rather interesting how different processes (mashing in) end up to the same result (craft beer.)

          Several large breweries run their grain and water into a mash tun simultaneously through a combination screw and water pipe at the top of the tun.

          As a home brewer, it has always been more convenient for me to add water to grain. Partly because I used to brew in the kitchen and didn't want flour/dust all over the place as I "dump" the grain into the tun.

          I have continued to add water to grain even though I am in a dedicated brewing area. I DO find there is a big difference between filling from the BOTTOM UP than to dumping water ON TOP of the grain in terms of having balls of dry grain.

          Denis


          To: BrewingEquipment@yahoogroups.com
          From: michael.noah@...
          Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 12:56:30 +0900
          Subject: RE: [BrewEquip] Mash tun - grain or water first?



          I’ll “weigh in” as well… grain to water, but continuously. I start the pump to move strike water from my HLT to my Mash Tun, and as the MT fills, I add the grain. Rarely do I have a grain-ball form, but when I do, it’s usually because I added too much grain and got ahead of the water volume.

           

          Michael

        • greenspider
                    That sounds interesting. I ll try that. ...   If we are talking about cooking rice... here is my recommendation. while you are heating
          Message 4 of 23 , Apr 1, 2010
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                      That sounds interesting.
            I'll try that.


            --- On Thu, 4/1/10, Jamie McCarty <jamie.mccarty@...> wrote:
             

            If we are talking about cooking rice... here is my recommendation.


            while you are heating your water to boil, in the pot that you are actually going to cook the rice in, put the rice and some oil or grease and start heating the rice on low.  You need to continuously  stir the rice, but gives a great flavor to have the rice slightly heated when you add the boiling water on top.


             


          • Stott Noble
            Oil or grease   =-O    NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! Not if you re planning on brewing with it! Plain water will gelatinize the starch just fine. Oils will kill
            Message 5 of 23 , Apr 1, 2010
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              "Oil or grease"  =-O    NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! Not if you're planning on brewing with it! Plain water will gelatinize the starch just fine. Oils will kill your head retension.

              greenspider wrote:
               



                        That sounds interesting.
              I'll try that.


              --- On Thu, 4/1/10, Jamie McCarty <jamie.mccarty@ gmail.com> wrote:
               

              If we are talking about cooking rice... here is my recommendation.


              while you are heating your water to boil, in the pot that you are actually going to cook the rice in, put the rice and some oil or grease and start heating the rice on low.  You need to continuously  stir the rice, but gives a great flavor to have the rice slightly heated when you add the boiling water on top.


               


            • Jamie McCarty
              I didn t say mash with rice... I said cooking rice. This is the south american way of cooking rice learned from my grandmother... and when I say grease, you
              Message 6 of 23 , Apr 1, 2010
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                I didn't say mash with rice... I said cooking rice.

                This is the south american way of cooking rice learned from my grandmother... and when I say grease, you know what I mean, save that bacon grease.

                On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Stott Noble <stottn@...> wrote:
                 

                "Oil or grease"  =-O    NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! Not if you're planning on brewing with it! Plain water will gelatinize the starch just fine. Oils will kill your head retension.



                greenspider wrote:
                 



                          That sounds interesting.
                I'll try that.


                --- On Thu, 4/1/10, Jamie McCarty <jamie.mccarty@...> wrote:
                 

                If we are talking about cooking rice... here is my recommendation.


                while you are heating your water to boil, in the pot that you are actually going to cook the rice in, put the rice and some oil or grease and start heating the rice on low.  You need to continuously  stir the rice, but gives a great flavor to have the rice slightly heated when you add the boiling water on top.
              • Stott Noble
                Sorry- I didn t get the original post for some reason. It is a brewing forum, after all. Jamie McCarty wrote: I didn t say mash with rice... I said cooking
                Message 7 of 23 , Apr 1, 2010
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                  Sorry- I didn't get the original post for some reason. It is a brewing forum, after all.

                  Jamie McCarty wrote:
                   

                  I didn't say mash with rice... I said cooking rice.


                  This is the south american way of cooking rice learned from my grandmother. .. and when I say grease, you know what I mean, save that bacon grease.

                  On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Stott Noble <stottn@bellsouth. net> wrote:
                   

                  "Oil or grease"  =-O    NOOOOOOOOOOOO! !!!!!!!! Not if you're planning on brewing with it! Plain water will gelatinize the starch just fine. Oils will kill your head retension.



                  greenspider wrote:
                   



                            That sounds interesting.
                  I'll try that.


                  --- On Thu, 4/1/10, Jamie McCarty <jamie.mccarty@ gmail.com> wrote:
                   

                  If we are talking about cooking rice... here is my recommendation.


                  while you are heating your water to boil, in the pot that you are actually going to cook the rice in, put the rice and some oil or grease and start heating the rice on low.  You need to continuously  stir the rice, but gives a great flavor to have the rice slightly heated when you add the boiling water on top.
                • hjsigmon
                  I appreciate all the replies, and althouh I had never considered adding water from the bottom up, I think I ll probably stick with adding the grain. When I do
                  Message 8 of 23 , Apr 2, 2010
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                    I appreciate all the replies, and althouh I had never considered adding water from the bottom up, I think I'll probably stick with adding the grain. When I do bigger batches though, I may start with only enough water for a 1:1 ratio to have more space in the tun to work with, then fill from the bottom with the rest of the water.

                    Thanks again!

                    Hall


                    >I DO find there is a big difference between filling from the BOTTOM >UP than to dumping water ON TOP of the grain in terms of having >balls of dry grain.
                    > Denis
                    >
                    >
                  • greenspider
                    Sorry Scott, I thought Sake may be a part of the brew world. To Jamie; I know that.           ... From: Stott Noble Subject:
                    Message 9 of 23 , Apr 2, 2010
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                      Sorry Scott, I thought Sake may be a part of the brew world.

                      To Jamie; I know that.

                               


                      --- On Thu, 4/1/10, Stott Noble <stottn@...> wrote:

                      From: Stott Noble <stottn@...>
                      Subject: Re: [BrewEquip] Re: - rice?
                      To: BrewingEquipment@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 12:59 PM

                       

                      Sorry- I didn't get the original post for some reason. It is a brewing forum, after all.

                      Jamie McCarty wrote:

                       

                      I didn't say mash with rice... I said cooking rice.


                      This is the south american way of cooking rice learned from my grandmother. .. and when I say grease, you know what I mean, save that bacon grease.

                      On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Stott Noble <stottn@bellsouth. net> wrote:
                       

                      "Oil or grease"  =-O    NOOOOOOOOOOOO! !!!!!!!! Not if you're planning on brewing with it! Plain water will gelatinize the starch just fine. Oils will kill your head retension.



                      greenspider wrote:
                       



                                That sounds interesting.
                      I'll try that.


                      --- On Thu, 4/1/10, Jamie McCarty <jamie.mccarty@ gmail.com> wrote:
                       

                      If we are talking about cooking rice... here is my recommendation.


                      while you are heating your water to boil, in the pot that you are actually going to cook the rice in, put the rice and some oil or grease and start heating the rice on low.  You need to continuously  stir the rice, but gives a great flavor to have the rice slightly heated when you add the boiling water on top.

                    • sharpstik
                      do you brown the rice when you do this, or just heat it? i don t understand why the flavor would be improved unless the rice is toasted a bit. and what if you
                      Message 10 of 23 , Apr 3, 2010
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                        do you brown the rice when you do this, or just heat it? i don't understand why the flavor would be improved unless the rice is toasted a bit. and what if you just use olive oil?
                        bill keiser

                        > This is the south american way of cooking rice learned from my
                        > grandmother... and when I say grease, you know what I mean, save that bacon
                        > grease.

                        > > --- On *Thu, 4/1/10, Jamie McCarty <jamie.mccarty@...>* wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > If we are talking about cooking rice... here is my recommendation.
                        > >
                        > > while you are heating your water to boil, in the pot that you are
                        > > actually going to cook the rice in, put the rice and some oil or grease and
                        > > start heating the rice on low. You need to continuously stir the rice, but
                        > > gives a great flavor to have the rice slightly heated when you add the
                        > > boiling water on top.
                      • Jamie McCarty
                        I use olive oil normally because I enjoy life.. but the best flavor is when you use bacon grease. You slightly toast the rice, actually its almost more like
                        Message 11 of 23 , Apr 5, 2010
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                          I use olive oil normally because I enjoy life.. but the best flavor is when you use bacon grease.

                          You slightly toast the rice, actually its almost more like you are slightly frying it.  The grains change color, but I think that is mostly for them absorbing the oil, but they do slightly brown.  I think the real benefit is that all the grains get a coating of oil/fat.

                          On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 8:56 PM, sharpstik <bk2@...> wrote:
                           

                          do you brown the rice when you do this, or just heat it? i don't understand why the flavor would be improved unless the rice is toasted a bit. and what if you just use olive oil?
                          bill keiser



                          > This is the south american way of cooking rice learned from my
                          > grandmother... and when I say grease, you know what I mean, save that bacon
                          > grease.

                          > > --- On *Thu, 4/1/10, Jamie McCarty <jamie.mccarty@...>* wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > If we are talking about cooking rice... here is my recommendation.
                          > >
                          > > while you are heating your water to boil, in the pot that you are
                          > > actually going to cook the rice in, put the rice and some oil or grease and
                          > > start heating the rice on low. You need to continuously stir the rice, but
                          > > gives a great flavor to have the rice slightly heated when you add the
                          > > boiling water on top.


                        • Joe Strain aka Yodar
                          This practice of slightly bowning the rice in oil was enhanced and an excellent product was developed when you break up spaghetti into 1/2 segments and brown
                          Message 12 of 23 , Apr 5, 2010
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                            This practice of slightly bowning the rice in oil was enhanced and an excellent product was developed when you break up spaghetti into 1/2" segments and brown WITH the rice (or use the scrap particles that fell off the manufacturing line cause they were too small)

                            That is how you make Rice-A-Roni, or WHATEVER that San Francisco Dish is called

                            Both grains, rice and semolina, when browned slightly cook up into a appealing dish with your own custom vegetable or protein additions, even scrapple!


                            Yodar

                            Words MEAN things.
                            AS do the words in our constitution,
                            they are not meant to be nuanced,
                            but READ AS writ!

                            --- On Mon, 4/5/10, Jamie McCarty <jamie.mccarty@...> wrote:

                            From: Jamie McCarty <jamie.mccarty@...>
                            Subject: Re: [BrewEquip] Re: - rice?
                            To: BrewingEquipment@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 9:23 AM

                             

                            I use olive oil normally because I enjoy life.. but the best flavor is when you use bacon grease.


                            You slightly toast the rice, actually its almost more like you are slightly frying it.  The grains change color, but I think that is mostly for them absorbing the oil, but they do slightly brown.  I think the real benefit is that all the grains get a coating of oil/fat.

                            On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 8:56 PM, sharpstik <bk2@sharpstick. org> wrote:
                             

                            do you brown the rice when you do this, or just heat it? i don't understand why the flavor would be improved unless the rice is toasted a bit. and what if you just use olive oil?
                            bill keiser



                            > This is the south american way of cooking rice learned from my
                            > grandmother. .. and when I say grease, you know what I mean, save that bacon
                            > grease.

                            > > --- On *Thu, 4/1/10, Jamie McCarty <jamie.mccarty@ ...>* wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > If we are talking about cooking rice... here is my recommendation.
                            > >
                            > > while you are heating your water to boil, in the pot that you are
                            > > actually going to cook the rice in, put the rice and some oil or grease and
                            > > start heating the rice on low. You need to continuously stir the rice, but
                            > > gives a great flavor to have the rice slightly heated when you add the
                            > > boiling water on top.



                          • Doug Rooney
                            Greetings all, I just got my monthly Marlin P Jones & Associates catalogue and noticed a 120v Immersion heater for $5.95. So for you DYIers that are looking
                            Message 13 of 23 , Apr 6, 2010
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                              Greetings all,
                              I just got my monthly Marlin P Jones & Associates catalogue and noticed a 120v Immersion heater for $5.95.
                              So for you DYIers that are looking for that kind of thing, check them out at http://www.mpja.com/email/04-06-10.asp?r=258434&s=11
                              I have purchased items from them before and they are fast and reasonable prices. YMMV
                               

                              Cheers 

                              ~Dr Doug

                               


                              .

                            • Joe Strain aka Yodar
                              My 110 V  HEAT STICK   uses a 110V 1400 watt water heater element which , comparing ratings with yours, is ten times more powerful.   And I tell you when I
                              Message 14 of 23 , Apr 6, 2010
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                                My 110 V  HEAT STICK   uses a 110V 1400 watt water heater element which , comparing ratings with yours, is ten times more powerful.  

                                And I tell you when I use it, I need every calorie of heat it produces.

                                Yodar

                                Words MEAN things.
                                AS do the words in our constitution,
                                they are not meant to be nuanced,
                                but READ AS writ!

                                --- On Tue, 4/6/10, Doug Rooney <drooney57@...> wrote:

                                From: Doug Rooney <drooney57@...>
                                Subject: : [BrewEquip] : Possible Part Source
                                To: BrewingEquipment@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Tuesday, April 6, 2010, 11:14 AM

                                 

                                Greetings all,
                                I just got my monthly Marlin P Jones & Associates catalogue and noticed a 120v Immersion heater for $5.95.
                                So for you DYIers that are looking for that kind of thing, check them out at http://www.mpja. com/email/ 04-06-10. asp?r=258434&s=11
                                I have purchased items from them before and they are fast and reasonable prices. YMMV
                                 

                                Cheers 

                                ~Dr Doug

                                 


                                .


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