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In the King's Name

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  • rfthlo
    I got the book, and have just started it. Looks good so far.
    Message 1 of 18 , Feb 2, 2011
      I got the book, and have just started it. Looks good so far.
    • m_lahmann
      I stopped reading Bolitho in the novel just before Richard is killed. I was finding them too painful and couldn t see Adam being a good standin for Richard.
      Message 2 of 18 , Feb 4, 2011
        I stopped reading Bolitho in the novel just before Richard is killed. I was finding them too painful and couldn't see Adam being a good standin for Richard. Granted, Richard did have an affair with a married woman, but at least it was a marriage to a hateful man he barely knew, not a fine and valiant friend.
        The whole idea of killing off a title character was more than strange to me anyway.
        Has Adam improved any? When last I saw him, he had just betrayed a fine friend,Keen, by committing adultery with his wife, an action followed by Adam sulking and biting everyone's head off because of his own depression over the girl's death. I just couldn't see him filling Bolitho's shoes.
        Has he developed any more character in the later books? I've been immersed in Dudley Pope and Dewey Lambdin. Oddly, the rakish Lewrie is less objectionable to me than Adam because while he never misses an opportunity to bed some girl, he doesn't really pretend to be honorable and thinks poorly of himself. He's also funny.
      • Bronwyn Tindall
        Merdaith Have not ggot round to finishing the entire series.i did find them in audio. Bronwyn From: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Bolitho@yahoogroups.com] On
        Message 3 of 18 , Feb 4, 2011

          Merdaith

          Have not ggot round to finishing the entire series.i did find them in audio.

          Bronwyn

           

          From: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Bolitho@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of m_lahmann
          Sent: Saturday, 5 February 2011 6:52 a.m.
          To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Bolitho] In the King's Name

           

           

          I stopped reading Bolitho in the novel just before Richard is killed. I was finding them too painful and couldn't see Adam being a good standin for Richard. Granted, Richard did have an affair with a married woman, but at least it was a marriage to a hateful man he barely knew, not a fine and valiant friend.
          The whole idea of killing off a title character was more than strange to me anyway.
          Has Adam improved any? When last I saw him, he had just betrayed a fine friend,Keen, by committing adultery with his wife, an action followed by Adam sulking and biting everyone's head off because of his own depression over the girl's death. I just couldn't see him filling Bolitho's shoes.
          Has he developed any more character in the later books? I've been immersed in Dudley Pope and Dewey Lambdin. Oddly, the rakish Lewrie is less objectionable to me than Adam because while he never misses an opportunity to bed some girl, he doesn't really pretend to be honorable and thinks poorly of himself. He's also funny.



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        • rfthlo
          ... Richard has had affairs with two married women that we know of...Viola Raymond and KAte. And it appears that maybe he got around at other times too...in
          Message 4 of 18 , Feb 5, 2011
            --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "m_lahmann" <m_lahmann@...> wrote:
            >
            > I stopped reading Bolitho in the novel just before Richard is killed. I was finding them too painful and couldn't see Adam being a good standin for Richard.

            Richard has had affairs with two married women that we know of...Viola Raymond and KAte. And it appears that maybe he "got around" at other times too...in one novel, he recollects taht a captain heard him talking to anpother midshipman through the skylight, and yells up, "Where did you meet the girl, Mr Bolitho?"
            He also has a knowledge of homosexuality early on, as he is not surprised at Mr whateverhisname was's affair with Kate's husband (its remarked that whatever he didn't know about when he joined his first ship he soon learned about).
            Collingwood states in his diary that NElson "makes himself a fool about his dolly" and this is pre-Emma. I think that maybe Bolitho, who seems to have a healthy respect for disease (pun intended), maybe had his "dollies" rather than visiting brothels where one was more likely to encounter venereal diseases. I can see him, when in port for awhile, as having his own dolly or two, rahter than using hookers.
          • meredith lahmann
            I would guess that officers being of a better class were less apt to use hookers and have mistresses. If I recall correctly, the affair with Kate began after
            Message 5 of 18 , Feb 5, 2011
              I would guess that officers being of a better class were less apt to use hookers and have mistresses. If I recall correctly, the affair with Kate began after her husband died. I never understood why their appearing together at social events in London was so frowned upon in their initial dating since he was well dead as a doornail by that time. He had died on the ship. She had not yet married for the second time.
                I'm guessing that any teenage boy would know about homosexuality...unless you are using that in the Bibilical sense of know. While I admit to being somewhat prudish, I didn't find it offensive that a midshipman would find a girl with whom he would have pleasure after months at sea. LOL I taught high school and I doubt that teenage boys have changed much...all raging hormones. Nor do I expect that grown men who joined the navy were synonimous with monks. My problem with Adam is having an affair with his good friend's wife...a friend who had waited years for happiness and was, in no way, a bad or cruel husband.
               


              From: rfthlo <rfthlo@...>
              To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 5:06:48 PM
              Subject: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

               



              --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "m_lahmann" <m_lahmann@...> wrote:
              >
              > I stopped reading Bolitho in the novel just before Richard is killed. I was finding them too painful and couldn't see Adam being a good standin for Richard.

              Richard has had affairs with two married women that we know of...Viola Raymond and KAte. And it appears that maybe he "got around" at other times too...in one novel, he recollects taht a captain heard him talking to anpother midshipman through the skylight, and yells up, "Where did you meet the girl, Mr Bolitho?"
              He also has a knowledge of homosexuality early on, as he is not surprised at Mr whateverhisname was's affair with Kate's husband (its remarked that whatever he didn't know about when he joined his first ship he soon learned about).
              Collingwood states in his diary that NElson "makes himself a fool about his dolly" and this is pre-Emma. I think that maybe Bolitho, who seems to have a healthy respect for disease (pun intended), maybe had his "dollies" rather than visiting brothels where one was more likely to encounter venereal diseases. I can see him, when in port for awhile, as having his own dolly or two, rahter than using hookers.



            • rfthlo
              ... I wonder if there s going to be any women coming forward to tell Adam that they were Richard s mistress? Adam was a cad, regarding Val Keen s wife. And I
              Message 6 of 18 , Feb 5, 2011
                --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...> wrote:
                >
                > I would guess that officers being of a better class were less apt to use hookers
                > and have mistresses.


                I wonder if there's going to be any women coming forward to tell Adam that they were Richard's mistress?

                Adam was a cad, regarding Val Keen's wife. And I think he knew it. His reaction when he sees Val's son, is priceless. I think he wanted the boy to be his...and maybe he was, although Val's wife denies it. I got the impression that he wanted the baby to be his, becaujse it would be "one up" on Val.
              • meredith lahmann
                You are on a roll! Cad is the perfect word and the point about the baby is a good one. It is an episode that I find just ruins his potential to be an officer I
                Message 7 of 18 , Feb 5, 2011
                  You are on a roll! Cad is the perfect word and the point about the baby is a good one. It is an episode that I find just ruins his potential to be an officer I like or care about.
                    Kent is very ham handed with the love affairs. I'm not sure what purpose a line of mistresses would do. If Adam took over his uncle's mistresses to try an out do Richard, he will be even more of a cad than with Val Keen.


                  From: rfthlo <rfthlo@...>
                  To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 5:27:10 PM
                  Subject: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                   



                  --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I would guess that officers being of a better class were less apt to use hookers
                  > and have mistresses.

                  I wonder if there's going to be any women coming forward to tell Adam that they were Richard's mistress?

                  Adam was a cad, regarding Val Keen's wife. And I think he knew it. His reaction when he sees Val's son, is priceless. I think he wanted the boy to be his...and maybe he was, although Val's wife denies it. I got the impression that he wanted the baby to be his, becaujse it would be "one up" on Val.


                • jim davis
                  In Adams defense,  the affair happened after both Keen and Richard were reported dead, and while there was an emotional attachment  I dont remember  ( in
                  Message 8 of 18 , Feb 5, 2011
                    In Adams defense,  the affair happened after both Keen and Richard were reported dead, and while there was an emotional attachment  I dont remember  ( in the books I have finished ) there being andy  furthur sexual encounters after it was learned Keen was alive. 
                    Raging hormones does desribe high school boys and sailors.  Soldiers, marines and airmen as well, frequently about the same age as HS boys.  So far as VD, I remember one guy in my unit who had managed to do more than his fair share all thru south america and the carribeen with not problems...First month we are in Austin TX he meets a sweet little cheerleader at the skating rink and catches the clap.....So much for safe with non pro;s.
                    I wonder if any author would have a main character catch a VD.  Probably worse than killing him off, or putting him on the beach a cripple.
                    Jim D.



                    --- On Sat, 2/5/11, meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...> wrote:

                    From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                    Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name
                    To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 7:18 PM

                     

                    I would guess that officers being of a better class were less apt to use hookers and have mistresses. If I recall correctly, the affair with Kate began after her husband died. I never understood why their appearing together at social events in London was so frowned upon in their initial dating since he was well dead as a doornail by that time. He had died on the ship. She had not yet married for the second time.
                      I'm guessing that any teenage boy would know about homosexuality...unless you are using that in the Bibilical sense of know. While I admit to being somewhat prudish, I didn't find it offensive that a midshipman would find a girl with whom he would have pleasure after months at sea. LOL I taught high school and I doubt that teenage boys have changed much...all raging hormones. Nor do I expect that grown men who joined the navy were synonimous with monks. My problem with Adam is having an affair with his good friend's wife...a friend who had waited years for happiness and was, in no way, a bad or cruel husband.
                     


                    From: rfthlo <rfthlo@...>
                    To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 5:06:48 PM
                    Subject: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                     



                    --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "m_lahmann" <m_lahmann@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I stopped reading Bolitho in the novel just before Richard is killed. I was finding them too painful and couldn't see Adam being a good standin for Richard.

                    Richard has had affairs with two married women that we know of...Viola Raymond and KAte. And it appears that maybe he "got around" at other times too...in one novel, he recollects taht a captain heard him talking to anpother midshipman through the skylight, and yells up, "Where did you meet the girl, Mr Bolitho?"
                    He also has a knowledge of homosexuality early on, as he is not surprised at Mr whateverhisname was's affair with Kate's husband (its remarked that whatever he didn't know about when he joined his first ship he soon learned about).
                    Collingwood states in his diary that NElson "makes himself a fool about his dolly" and this is pre-Emma. I think that maybe Bolitho, who seems to have a healthy respect for disease (pun intended), maybe had his "dollies" rather than visiting brothels where one was more likely to encounter venereal diseases. I can see him, when in port for awhile, as having his own dolly or two, rahter than using hookers.




                  • meredith lahmann
                    I suspect that if any character does, it will have to be Alan Lewrie. He surely gets around! ________________________________ From: jim davis
                    Message 9 of 18 , Feb 5, 2011
                      I suspect that if any character does, it will have to be Alan Lewrie. He surely gets around!


                      From: jim davis <jhdavis19@...>
                      To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 8:17:28 PM
                      Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                       

                      In Adams defense,  the affair happened after both Keen and Richard were reported dead, and while there was an emotional attachment  I dont remember  ( in the books I have finished ) there being andy  furthur sexual encounters after it was learned Keen was alive. 
                      Raging hormones does desribe high school boys and sailors.  Soldiers, marines and airmen as well, frequently about the same age as HS boys.  So far as VD, I remember one guy in my unit who had managed to do more than his fair share all thru south america and the carribeen with not problems...First month we are in Austin TX he meets a sweet little cheerleader at the skating rink and catches the clap.....So much for safe with non pro;s.
                      I wonder if any author would have a main character catch a VD.  Probably worse than killing him off, or putting him on the beach a cripple.
                      Jim D.



                      --- On Sat, 2/5/11, meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...> wrote:

                      From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                      Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name
                      To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 7:18 PM

                       

                      I would guess that officers being of a better class were less apt to use hookers and have mistresses. If I recall correctly, the affair with Kate began after her husband died. I never understood why their appearing together at social events in London was so frowned upon in their initial dating since he was well dead as a doornail by that time. He had died on the ship. She had not yet married for the second time.
                        I'm guessing that any teenage boy would know about homosexuality...unless you are using that in the Bibilical sense of know. While I admit to being somewhat prudish, I didn't find it offensive that a midshipman would find a girl with whom he would have pleasure after months at sea. LOL I taught high school and I doubt that teenage boys have changed much...all raging hormones. Nor do I expect that grown men who joined the navy were synonimous with monks. My problem with Adam is having an affair with his good friend's wife...a friend who had waited years for happiness and was, in no way, a bad or cruel husband.
                       


                      From: rfthlo <rfthlo@...>
                      To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 5:06:48 PM
                      Subject: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                       



                      --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "m_lahmann" <m_lahmann@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I stopped reading Bolitho in the novel just before Richard is killed. I was finding them too painful and couldn't see Adam being a good standin for Richard.

                      Richard has had affairs with two married women that we know of...Viola Raymond and KAte. And it appears that maybe he "got around" at other times too...in one novel, he recollects taht a captain heard him talking to anpother midshipman through the skylight, and yells up, "Where did you meet the girl, Mr Bolitho?"
                      He also has a knowledge of homosexuality early on, as he is not surprised at Mr whateverhisname was's affair with Kate's husband (its remarked that whatever he didn't know about when he joined his first ship he soon learned about).
                      Collingwood states in his diary that NElson "makes himself a fool about his dolly" and this is pre-Emma. I think that maybe Bolitho, who seems to have a healthy respect for disease (pun intended), maybe had his "dollies" rather than visiting brothels where one was more likely to encounter venereal diseases. I can see him, when in port for awhile, as having his own dolly or two, rahter than using hookers.





                    • Jeff Israelson
                      Jack Aubrey gets VD at in one of the early books. ________________________________ From: meredith lahmann To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                      Message 10 of 18 , Feb 5, 2011
                        Jack Aubrey gets VD at in one of the early books.


                        From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                        To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 10:20:41 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                         

                        I suspect that if any character does, it will have to be Alan Lewrie. He surely gets around!


                        From: jim davis <jhdavis19@...>
                        To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 8:17:28 PM
                        Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                         

                        In Adams defense,  the affair happened after both Keen and Richard were reported dead, and while there was an emotional attachment  I dont remember  ( in the books I have finished ) there being andy  furthur sexual encounters after it was learned Keen was alive. 
                        Raging hormones does desribe high school boys and sailors.  Soldiers, marines and airmen as well, frequently about the same age as HS boys.  So far as VD, I remember one guy in my unit who had managed to do more than his fair share all thru south america and the carribeen with not problems...First month we are in Austin TX he meets a sweet little cheerleader at the skating rink and catches the clap.....So much for safe with non pro;s.
                        I wonder if any author would have a main character catch a VD.  Probably worse than killing him off, or putting him on the beach a cripple.
                        Jim D.



                        --- On Sat, 2/5/11, meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...> wrote:

                        From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                        Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name
                        To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 7:18 PM

                         

                        I would guess that officers being of a better class were less apt to use hookers and have mistresses. If I recall correctly, the affair with Kate began after her husband died. I never understood why their appearing together at social events in London was so frowned upon in their initial dating since he was well dead as a doornail by that time. He had died on the ship. She had not yet married for the second time.
                          I'm guessing that any teenage boy would know about homosexuality...unless you are using that in the Bibilical sense of know. While I admit to being somewhat prudish, I didn't find it offensive that a midshipman would find a girl with whom he would have pleasure after months at sea. LOL I taught high school and I doubt that teenage boys have changed much...all raging hormones. Nor do I expect that grown men who joined the navy were synonimous with monks. My problem with Adam is having an affair with his good friend's wife...a friend who had waited years for happiness and was, in no way, a bad or cruel husband.
                         


                        From: rfthlo <rfthlo@...>
                        To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 5:06:48 PM
                        Subject: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                         



                        --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "m_lahmann" <m_lahmann@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I stopped reading Bolitho in the novel just before Richard is killed. I was finding them too painful and couldn't see Adam being a good standin for Richard.

                        Richard has had affairs with two married women that we know of...Viola Raymond and KAte. And it appears that maybe he "got around" at other times too...in one novel, he recollects taht a captain heard him talking to anpother midshipman through the skylight, and yells up, "Where did you meet the girl, Mr Bolitho?"
                        He also has a knowledge of homosexuality early on, as he is not surprised at Mr whateverhisname was's affair with Kate's husband (its remarked that whatever he didn't know about when he joined his first ship he soon learned about).
                        Collingwood states in his diary that NElson "makes himself a fool about his dolly" and this is pre-Emma. I think that maybe Bolitho, who seems to have a healthy respect for disease (pun intended), maybe had his "dollies" rather than visiting brothels where one was more likely to encounter venereal diseases. I can see him, when in port for awhile, as having his own dolly or two, rahter than using hookers.






                      • meredith lahmann
                        Was there any cure in those days?   ________________________________ From: Jeff Israelson To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sat, February
                        Message 11 of 18 , Feb 5, 2011
                          Was there any cure in those days?

                           


                          From: Jeff Israelson <omnisjdi@...>
                          To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 8:38:18 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                           

                          Jack Aubrey gets VD at in one of the early books.


                          From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                          To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 10:20:41 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                           

                          I suspect that if any character does, it will have to be Alan Lewrie. He surely gets around!


                          From: jim davis <jhdavis19@...>
                          To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 8:17:28 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                           

                          In Adams defense,  the affair happened after both Keen and Richard were reported dead, and while there was an emotional attachment  I dont remember  ( in the books I have finished ) there being andy  furthur sexual encounters after it was learned Keen was alive. 
                          Raging hormones does desribe high school boys and sailors.  Soldiers, marines and airmen as well, frequently about the same age as HS boys.  So far as VD, I remember one guy in my unit who had managed to do more than his fair share all thru south america and the carribeen with not problems...First month we are in Austin TX he meets a sweet little cheerleader at the skating rink and catches the clap.....So much for safe with non pro;s.
                          I wonder if any author would have a main character catch a VD.  Probably worse than killing him off, or putting him on the beach a cripple.
                          Jim D.



                          --- On Sat, 2/5/11, meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...> wrote:

                          From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                          Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name
                          To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 7:18 PM

                           

                          I would guess that officers being of a better class were less apt to use hookers and have mistresses. If I recall correctly, the affair with Kate began after her husband died. I never understood why their appearing together at social events in London was so frowned upon in their initial dating since he was well dead as a doornail by that time. He had died on the ship. She had not yet married for the second time.
                            I'm guessing that any teenage boy would know about homosexuality...unless you are using that in the Bibilical sense of know. While I admit to being somewhat prudish, I didn't find it offensive that a midshipman would find a girl with whom he would have pleasure after months at sea. LOL I taught high school and I doubt that teenage boys have changed much...all raging hormones. Nor do I expect that grown men who joined the navy were synonimous with monks. My problem with Adam is having an affair with his good friend's wife...a friend who had waited years for happiness and was, in no way, a bad or cruel husband.
                           


                          From: rfthlo <rfthlo@...>
                          To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 5:06:48 PM
                          Subject: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                           



                          --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "m_lahmann" <m_lahmann@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I stopped reading Bolitho in the novel just before Richard is killed. I was finding them too painful and couldn't see Adam being a good standin for Richard.

                          Richard has had affairs with two married women that we know of...Viola Raymond and KAte. And it appears that maybe he "got around" at other times too...in one novel, he recollects taht a captain heard him talking to anpother midshipman through the skylight, and yells up, "Where did you meet the girl, Mr Bolitho?"
                          He also has a knowledge of homosexuality early on, as he is not surprised at Mr whateverhisname was's affair with Kate's husband (its remarked that whatever he didn't know about when he joined his first ship he soon learned about).
                          Collingwood states in his diary that NElson "makes himself a fool about his dolly" and this is pre-Emma. I think that maybe Bolitho, who seems to have a healthy respect for disease (pun intended), maybe had his "dollies" rather than visiting brothels where one was more likely to encounter venereal diseases. I can see him, when in port for awhile, as having his own dolly or two, rahter than using hookers.







                        • jim davis
                          The germs probably run when they see him. Jim D ... From: meredith lahmann Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King s Name To:
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 5, 2011
                            The germs probably run when they see him.

                            Jim D

                            --- On Sat, 2/5/11, meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...> wrote:

                            From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                            Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name
                            To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 10:20 PM

                             

                            I suspect that if any character does, it will have to be Alan Lewrie. He surely gets around!


                            From: jim davis <jhdavis19@...>
                            To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 8:17:28 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                             

                            In Adams defense,  the affair happened after both Keen and Richard were reported dead, and while there was an emotional attachment  I dont remember  ( in the books I have finished ) there being andy  furthur sexual encounters after it was learned Keen was alive. 
                            Raging hormones does desribe high school boys and sailors.  Soldiers, marines and airmen as well, frequently about the same age as HS boys.  So far as VD, I remember one guy in my unit who had managed to do more than his fair share all thru south america and the carribeen with not problems...First month we are in Austin TX he meets a sweet little cheerleader at the skating rink and catches the clap.....So much for safe with non pro;s.
                            I wonder if any author would have a main character catch a VD.  Probably worse than killing him off, or putting him on the beach a cripple.
                            Jim D.



                            --- On Sat, 2/5/11, meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...> wrote:

                            From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                            Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name
                            To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 7:18 PM

                             

                            I would guess that officers being of a better class were less apt to use hookers and have mistresses. If I recall correctly, the affair with Kate began after her husband died. I never understood why their appearing together at social events in London was so frowned upon in their initial dating since he was well dead as a doornail by that time. He had died on the ship. She had not yet married for the second time.
                              I'm guessing that any teenage boy would know about homosexuality...unless you are using that in the Bibilical sense of know. While I admit to being somewhat prudish, I didn't find it offensive that a midshipman would find a girl with whom he would have pleasure after months at sea. LOL I taught high school and I doubt that teenage boys have changed much...all raging hormones. Nor do I expect that grown men who joined the navy were synonimous with monks. My problem with Adam is having an affair with his good friend's wife...a friend who had waited years for happiness and was, in no way, a bad or cruel husband.
                             


                            From: rfthlo <rfthlo@...>
                            To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 5:06:48 PM
                            Subject: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                             



                            --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "m_lahmann" <m_lahmann@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I stopped reading Bolitho in the novel just before Richard is killed. I was finding them too painful and couldn't see Adam being a good standin for Richard.

                            Richard has had affairs with two married women that we know of...Viola Raymond and KAte. And it appears that maybe he "got around" at other times too...in one novel, he recollects taht a captain heard him talking to anpother midshipman through the skylight, and yells up, "Where did you meet the girl, Mr Bolitho?"
                            He also has a knowledge of homosexuality early on, as he is not surprised at Mr whateverhisname was's affair with Kate's husband (its remarked that whatever he didn't know about when he joined his first ship he soon learned about).
                            Collingwood states in his diary that NElson "makes himself a fool about his dolly" and this is pre-Emma. I think that maybe Bolitho, who seems to have a healthy respect for disease (pun intended), maybe had his "dollies" rather than visiting brothels where one was more likely to encounter venereal diseases. I can see him, when in port for awhile, as having his own dolly or two, rahter than using hookers.






                          • jim davis
                            And I now think better of O Brian Jim D ... From: Jeff Israelson Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King s Name To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 5, 2011
                              And I now think better of O'Brian
                              Jim D

                              --- On Sat, 2/5/11, Jeff Israelson <omnisjdi@...> wrote:

                              From: Jeff Israelson <omnisjdi@...>
                              Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name
                              To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 10:38 PM

                               

                              Jack Aubrey gets VD at in one of the early books.


                              From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                              To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 10:20:41 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                               

                              I suspect that if any character does, it will have to be Alan Lewrie. He surely gets around!


                              From: jim davis <jhdavis19@...>
                              To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 8:17:28 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                               

                              In Adams defense,  the affair happened after both Keen and Richard were reported dead, and while there was an emotional attachment  I dont remember  ( in the books I have finished ) there being andy  furthur sexual encounters after it was learned Keen was alive. 
                              Raging hormones does desribe high school boys and sailors.  Soldiers, marines and airmen as well, frequently about the same age as HS boys.  So far as VD, I remember one guy in my unit who had managed to do more than his fair share all thru south america and the carribeen with not problems...First month we are in Austin TX he meets a sweet little cheerleader at the skating rink and catches the clap.....So much for safe with non pro;s.
                              I wonder if any author would have a main character catch a VD.  Probably worse than killing him off, or putting him on the beach a cripple.
                              Jim D.



                              --- On Sat, 2/5/11, meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...> wrote:

                              From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                              Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name
                              To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 7:18 PM

                               

                              I would guess that officers being of a better class were less apt to use hookers and have mistresses. If I recall correctly, the affair with Kate began after her husband died. I never understood why their appearing together at social events in London was so frowned upon in their initial dating since he was well dead as a doornail by that time. He had died on the ship. She had not yet married for the second time.
                                I'm guessing that any teenage boy would know about homosexuality...unless you are using that in the Bibilical sense of know. While I admit to being somewhat prudish, I didn't find it offensive that a midshipman would find a girl with whom he would have pleasure after months at sea. LOL I taught high school and I doubt that teenage boys have changed much...all raging hormones. Nor do I expect that grown men who joined the navy were synonimous with monks. My problem with Adam is having an affair with his good friend's wife...a friend who had waited years for happiness and was, in no way, a bad or cruel husband.
                               


                              From: rfthlo <rfthlo@...>
                              To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 5:06:48 PM
                              Subject: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                               



                              --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "m_lahmann" <m_lahmann@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I stopped reading Bolitho in the novel just before Richard is killed. I was finding them too painful and couldn't see Adam being a good standin for Richard.

                              Richard has had affairs with two married women that we know of...Viola Raymond and KAte. And it appears that maybe he "got around" at other times too...in one novel, he recollects taht a captain heard him talking to anpother midshipman through the skylight, and yells up, "Where did you meet the girl, Mr Bolitho?"
                              He also has a knowledge of homosexuality early on, as he is not surprised at Mr whateverhisname was's affair with Kate's husband (its remarked that whatever he didn't know about when he joined his first ship he soon learned about).
                              Collingwood states in his diary that NElson "makes himself a fool about his dolly" and this is pre-Emma. I think that maybe Bolitho, who seems to have a healthy respect for disease (pun intended), maybe had his "dollies" rather than visiting brothels where one was more likely to encounter venereal diseases. I can see him, when in port for awhile, as having his own dolly or two, rahter than using hookers.







                            • jim davis
                              As with most naval medicine, amputation. IIRC, mercury drip for one of the big 2, and some sort of poisoning for the other.  Both lengthy, painful and not
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 5, 2011
                                As with most naval medicine, amputation.
                                IIRC, mercury drip for one of the big 2, and some sort of poisoning for the other.  Both lengthy, painful and not 100% sucessful   Quite a swap.  Smallpox for  Syphalis
                                Jim D

                                --- On Sat, 2/5/11, meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...> wrote:

                                From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                                Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name
                                To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 10:43 PM

                                 

                                Was there any cure in those days?

                                 


                                From: Jeff Israelson <omnisjdi@...>
                                To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 8:38:18 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                                 

                                Jack Aubrey gets VD at in one of the early books.


                                From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                                To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 10:20:41 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                                 

                                I suspect that if any character does, it will have to be Alan Lewrie. He surely gets around!


                                From: jim davis <jhdavis19@...>
                                To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 8:17:28 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                                 

                                In Adams defense,  the affair happened after both Keen and Richard were reported dead, and while there was an emotional attachment  I dont remember  ( in the books I have finished ) there being andy  furthur sexual encounters after it was learned Keen was alive. 
                                Raging hormones does desribe high school boys and sailors.  Soldiers, marines and airmen as well, frequently about the same age as HS boys.  So far as VD, I remember one guy in my unit who had managed to do more than his fair share all thru south america and the carribeen with not problems...First month we are in Austin TX he meets a sweet little cheerleader at the skating rink and catches the clap.....So much for safe with non pro;s.
                                I wonder if any author would have a main character catch a VD.  Probably worse than killing him off, or putting him on the beach a cripple.
                                Jim D.



                                --- On Sat, 2/5/11, meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...> wrote:

                                From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                                Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name
                                To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 7:18 PM

                                 

                                I would guess that officers being of a better class were less apt to use hookers and have mistresses. If I recall correctly, the affair with Kate began after her husband died. I never understood why their appearing together at social events in London was so frowned upon in their initial dating since he was well dead as a doornail by that time. He had died on the ship. She had not yet married for the second time.
                                  I'm guessing that any teenage boy would know about homosexuality...unless you are using that in the Bibilical sense of know. While I admit to being somewhat prudish, I didn't find it offensive that a midshipman would find a girl with whom he would have pleasure after months at sea. LOL I taught high school and I doubt that teenage boys have changed much...all raging hormones. Nor do I expect that grown men who joined the navy were synonimous with monks. My problem with Adam is having an affair with his good friend's wife...a friend who had waited years for happiness and was, in no way, a bad or cruel husband.
                                 


                                From: rfthlo <rfthlo@...>
                                To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 5:06:48 PM
                                Subject: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                                 



                                --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "m_lahmann" <m_lahmann@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I stopped reading Bolitho in the novel just before Richard is killed. I was finding them too painful and couldn't see Adam being a good standin for Richard.

                                Richard has had affairs with two married women that we know of...Viola Raymond and KAte. And it appears that maybe he "got around" at other times too...in one novel, he recollects taht a captain heard him talking to anpother midshipman through the skylight, and yells up, "Where did you meet the girl, Mr Bolitho?"
                                He also has a knowledge of homosexuality early on, as he is not surprised at Mr whateverhisname was's affair with Kate's husband (its remarked that whatever he didn't know about when he joined his first ship he soon learned about).
                                Collingwood states in his diary that NElson "makes himself a fool about his dolly" and this is pre-Emma. I think that maybe Bolitho, who seems to have a healthy respect for disease (pun intended), maybe had his "dollies" rather than visiting brothels where one was more likely to encounter venereal diseases. I can see him, when in port for awhile, as having his own dolly or two, rahter than using hookers.








                              • meredith lahmann
                                Well, as attention getters go, that first sentence of yours was a real show stopper, Jim. I mean considering the topic! I thought you were being quite 
                                Message 15 of 18 , Feb 5, 2011
                                  Well, as attention getters go, that first sentence of yours was a real show stopper, Jim. I mean considering the topic! I thought you were being quite  literal like Lorena Bobbit. LOL
                                     I suppose it must have sometimes worked if Jack Aubrey lived to fight another day in book after book of a series.


                                  From: jim davis <jhdavis19@...>
                                  To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 8:51:49 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                                   

                                  As with most naval medicine, amputation.
                                  IIRC, mercury drip for one of the big 2, and some sort of poisoning for the other.  Both lengthy, painful and not 100% sucessful   Quite a swap.  Smallpox for  Syphalis
                                  Jim D

                                  --- On Sat, 2/5/11, meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...> wrote:

                                  From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name
                                  To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 10:43 PM

                                   

                                  Was there any cure in those days?

                                   


                                  From: Jeff Israelson <omnisjdi@...>
                                  To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 8:38:18 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                                   

                                  Jack Aubrey gets VD at in one of the early books.


                                  From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                                  To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 10:20:41 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                                   

                                  I suspect that if any character does, it will have to be Alan Lewrie. He surely gets around!


                                  From: jim davis <jhdavis19@...>
                                  To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 8:17:28 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                                   

                                  In Adams defense,  the affair happened after both Keen and Richard were reported dead, and while there was an emotional attachment  I dont remember  ( in the books I have finished ) there being andy  furthur sexual encounters after it was learned Keen was alive. 
                                  Raging hormones does desribe high school boys and sailors.  Soldiers, marines and airmen as well, frequently about the same age as HS boys.  So far as VD, I remember one guy in my unit who had managed to do more than his fair share all thru south america and the carribeen with not problems...First month we are in Austin TX he meets a sweet little cheerleader at the skating rink and catches the clap.....So much for safe with non pro;s.
                                  I wonder if any author would have a main character catch a VD.  Probably worse than killing him off, or putting him on the beach a cripple.
                                  Jim D.



                                  --- On Sat, 2/5/11, meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...> wrote:

                                  From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name
                                  To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 7:18 PM

                                   

                                  I would guess that officers being of a better class were less apt to use hookers and have mistresses. If I recall correctly, the affair with Kate began after her husband died. I never understood why their appearing together at social events in London was so frowned upon in their initial dating since he was well dead as a doornail by that time. He had died on the ship. She had not yet married for the second time.
                                    I'm guessing that any teenage boy would know about homosexuality...unless you are using that in the Bibilical sense of know. While I admit to being somewhat prudish, I didn't find it offensive that a midshipman would find a girl with whom he would have pleasure after months at sea. LOL I taught high school and I doubt that teenage boys have changed much...all raging hormones. Nor do I expect that grown men who joined the navy were synonimous with monks. My problem with Adam is having an affair with his good friend's wife...a friend who had waited years for happiness and was, in no way, a bad or cruel husband.
                                   


                                  From: rfthlo <rfthlo@...>
                                  To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 5:06:48 PM
                                  Subject: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                                   



                                  --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "m_lahmann" <m_lahmann@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I stopped reading Bolitho in the novel just before Richard is killed. I was finding them too painful and couldn't see Adam being a good standin for Richard.

                                  Richard has had affairs with two married women that we know of...Viola Raymond and KAte. And it appears that maybe he "got around" at other times too...in one novel, he recollects taht a captain heard him talking to anpother midshipman through the skylight, and yells up, "Where did you meet the girl, Mr Bolitho?"
                                  He also has a knowledge of homosexuality early on, as he is not surprised at Mr whateverhisname was's affair with Kate's husband (its remarked that whatever he didn't know about when he joined his first ship he soon learned about).
                                  Collingwood states in his diary that NElson "makes himself a fool about his dolly" and this is pre-Emma. I think that maybe Bolitho, who seems to have a healthy respect for disease (pun intended), maybe had his "dollies" rather than visiting brothels where one was more likely to encounter venereal diseases. I can see him, when in port for awhile, as having his own dolly or two, rahter than using hookers.









                                • Bill Crews
                                  http://ageofsail.wordpress.com/2009/02/26/a-night-with-venus-a-lifetime-with-mercury/ Mercury was the basis for the treatment of syphillis up until the
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Feb 6, 2011

                                    Mercury was the basis for the treatment of syphillis up until the discovery of penicillin. Actually the prognosis for your disease was exactly the same whether or not you used the treatment.

                                    Jim's being facetious about amputation. Tertiary syphilis manifests itself in just about every part of the body except the genitals.


                                    From: jim davis <jhdavis19@...>
                                    To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 11:51:49 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                                     

                                    As with most naval medicine, amputation.
                                    IIRC, mercury drip for one of the big 2, and some sort of poisoning for the other.  Both lengthy, painful and not 100% sucessful   Quite a swap.  Smallpox for  Syphalis
                                    Jim D

                                    --- On Sat, 2/5/11, meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...> wrote:

                                    From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name
                                    To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 10:43 PM

                                     

                                    Was there any cure in those days?

                                     


                                    From: Jeff Israelson <omnisjdi@...>
                                    To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 8:38:18 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                                     

                                    Jack Aubrey gets VD at in one of the early books.


                                    From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                                    To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 10:20:41 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                                     

                                    I suspect that if any character does, it will have to be Alan Lewrie. He surely gets around!


                                    From: jim davis <jhdavis19@...>
                                    To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 8:17:28 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                                     

                                    In Adams defense,  the affair happened after both Keen and Richard were reported dead, and while there was an emotional attachment  I dont remember  ( in the books I have finished ) there being andy  furthur sexual encounters after it was learned Keen was alive. 
                                    Raging hormones does desribe high school boys and sailors.  Soldiers, marines and airmen as well, frequently about the same age as HS boys.  So far as VD, I remember one guy in my unit who had managed to do more than his fair share all thru south america and the carribeen with not problems...First month we are in Austin TX he meets a sweet little cheerleader at the skating rink and catches the clap.....So much for safe with non pro;s.
                                    I wonder if any author would have a main character catch a VD.  Probably worse than killing him off, or putting him on the beach a cripple.
                                    Jim D.



                                    --- On Sat, 2/5/11, meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...> wrote:

                                    From: meredith lahmann <m_lahmann@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name
                                    To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Saturday, February 5, 2011, 7:18 PM

                                     

                                    I would guess that officers being of a better class were less apt to use hookers and have mistresses. If I recall correctly, the affair with Kate began after her husband died. I never understood why their appearing together at social events in London was so frowned upon in their initial dating since he was well dead as a doornail by that time. He had died on the ship. She had not yet married for the second time.
                                      I'm guessing that any teenage boy would know about homosexuality...unless you are using that in the Bibilical sense of know. While I admit to being somewhat prudish, I didn't find it offensive that a midshipman would find a girl with whom he would have pleasure after months at sea. LOL I taught high school and I doubt that teenage boys have changed much...all raging hormones. Nor do I expect that grown men who joined the navy were synonimous with monks. My problem with Adam is having an affair with his good friend's wife...a friend who had waited years for happiness and was, in no way, a bad or cruel husband.
                                     


                                    From: rfthlo <rfthlo@...>
                                    To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Sat, February 5, 2011 5:06:48 PM
                                    Subject: [Bolitho] Re: In the King's Name

                                     



                                    --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "m_lahmann" <m_lahmann@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I stopped reading Bolitho in the novel just before Richard is killed. I was finding them too painful and couldn't see Adam being a good standin for Richard.

                                    Richard has had affairs with two married women that we know of...Viola Raymond and KAte. And it appears that maybe he "got around" at other times too...in one novel, he recollects taht a captain heard him talking to anpother midshipman through the skylight, and yells up, "Where did you meet the girl, Mr Bolitho?"
                                    He also has a knowledge of homosexuality early on, as he is not surprised at Mr whateverhisname was's affair with Kate's husband (its remarked that whatever he didn't know about when he joined his first ship he soon learned about).
                                    Collingwood states in his diary that NElson "makes himself a fool about his dolly" and this is pre-Emma. I think that maybe Bolitho, who seems to have a healthy respect for disease (pun intended), maybe had his "dollies" rather than visiting brothels where one was more likely to encounter venereal diseases. I can see him, when in port for awhile, as having his own dolly or two, rahter than using hookers.









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