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Your AoS fiction dislike

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  • Mil Goose
    ...let s liven this list up a bit.... we ve sort of done this before, but who don t you like in AoS fiction, and why? It s not limited to Kent..... grouch
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 2, 2005
      ...let's liven this list up a bit.... we've sort of done this before,
      but who don't you like in AoS fiction, and why? It's not limited to
      Kent..... grouch away!!


      - Cookie -
    • John Stevens
      ... before, ... I can t stand Dudly Pope s use of the phrase the Juno frigate or Triton brig or any other variation thereof. It just sets my teeth on edge
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 2, 2005
        --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "Mil Goose" <mmgoose@m...> wrote:
        > ...let's liven this list up a bit.... we've sort of done this
        before,
        > but who don't you like in AoS fiction, and why? It's not limited to
        > Kent..... grouch away!!
        >
        >
        > - Cookie -

        I can't stand Dudly Pope's use of the phrase "the Juno frigate"
        or "Triton brig" or any other variation thereof. It just sets my teeth
        on edge and renders his work unreadable to me.

        It's probably petty but I can help it.

        John
      • Mil Goose
        I m curious, John ... why does it annoy you? It was an authentic use of the term, e.g. The Times of March 4th, 1795, reports ... Portsmouth..2nd March.
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 3, 2005
          I'm curious, John ... why does it annoy you?

          It was an authentic use of the term, e.g. The Times of March 4th,
          1795,
          reports " ... Portsmouth..2nd March. Sailed the Eurydice Frigate,
          with
          a convoy of Transports for Plymouth ..."

          What I find more irritating is the use of HMS prefix to vessels which
          were not ship-rigged, e.g. cutters which should have been referred to
          HM Cutter ----. LOL I was educated on this a few years ago by our
          Admiral Squarebriggs, when in the role-play of the time I had command
          of HM Cutter Hereward, 10, and not, as he pointed out, HMS
          Hereward. Lesson learned, Admiral Dear!! :>)

          - Cookie -




          --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "John Stevens" <jjts01757@y...> wrote:
          >
          > I can't stand Dudly Pope's use of the phrase "the Juno frigate"
          > or "Triton brig" or any other variation thereof. It just sets my
          teeth
          > on edge and renders his work unreadable to me.
          >
          > It's probably petty but I can help it.
          >
          > John
        • Robert Squarebriggs
          Well done, Commodore Ma m! You ve learned your lessons well. A good question you raise.....though you know my answer. Mr. Patrick Oh My God, Is It Never
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 3, 2005
            Well done, Commodore Ma'm! You've learned your lessons well.

            A good question you raise.....though you know my answer. Mr. Patrick "Oh My
            God, Is It Never Going To End" O'Brien! I realize we differ on our
            evaluation of the lads work, but please, he lays it on so thick, it takes an
            age to get through to the real story! But at least his detail is right. I
            detest books where the details of common sea life, get messed up. The
            expressions of the service , the traditions of the navy, the workings of a
            sailing ship, and the language of the period, all have to be accurate for
            me.

            I remain.....................

            Bob


            "Before they slip me over the standing part of the fore-sheet, let me pipe
            "Up Spirits" or "Splice the Main Brace" one more time!"
            http://community.webshots.com/album/130148443VPVMxM
          • John Stevens
            I m not really certain, Cookie, but if I had to guess I d say it was that the phraseology runs counter to my expectations. My first AoS stories were the
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 3, 2005
              I'm not really certain, Cookie, but if I had to guess I'd say it was
              that the phraseology runs counter to my expectations. My first AoS
              stories were the Hornblowers followed a few years later by Bolitho.
              Both Forester and Kent would phrase it "the frigate Phalarope"
              or "the Sloop-of-War Hotspur". So even though it may not be strictly
              historical it's what I expect to see. I didn't read my first Ramage
              until about ten years later, by that time my tastes had become
              established.

              I believe I got the use of the HMS prefix correct in Uncommon Valour
              but I'm sure that one of you will let me know if I dropped the ball
              somewhere. Technically the Royal Navy didn't start using the prefix
              for a few more years but this is fiction after all, not a history
              text. To paraphrase the late Gene Roddenberry "Historical accuracy
              where possible but don't be afraid to stretch things for a good
              story."

              John

              --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "Mil Goose" <mmgoose@m...> wrote:
              > I'm curious, John ... why does it annoy you?
              >
              > It was an authentic use of the term, e.g. The Times of March 4th,
              > 1795,
              > reports " ... Portsmouth..2nd March. Sailed the Eurydice Frigate,
              > with
              > a convoy of Transports for Plymouth ..."
              >
              > What I find more irritating is the use of HMS prefix to vessels
              which
              > were not ship-rigged, e.g. cutters which should have been referred
              to
              > HM Cutter ----. LOL I was educated on this a few years ago by our
              > Admiral Squarebriggs, when in the role-play of the time I had
              command
              > of HM Cutter Hereward, 10, and not, as he pointed out, HMS
              > Hereward. Lesson learned, Admiral Dear!! :>)
              >
              > - Cookie -
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "John Stevens" <jjts01757@y...>
              wrote:
              > >
              > > I can't stand Dudly Pope's use of the phrase "the Juno frigate"
              > > or "Triton brig" or any other variation thereof. It just sets my
              > teeth
              > > on edge and renders his work unreadable to me.
              > >
              > > It's probably petty but I can help it.
              > >
              > > John
            • Nathan
              I don t know sometimes, I feel that AoS fiction does get a bit formulaic at times. That doesn t keep me away, but sometimes I have to take a break from it,
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 3, 2005
                I don't know sometimes, I feel that AoS fiction does get a bit
                formulaic at times. That doesn't keep me away, but sometimes I have
                to take a break from it, and read something else till I get the itch
                again.

                I would like to see more books that feature the common Jack Tar like
                the first few Kydd novels.

                --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "Mil Goose" <mmgoose@m...> wrote:
                > ...let's liven this list up a bit.... we've sort of done this before,
                > but who don't you like in AoS fiction, and why? It's not limited to
                > Kent..... grouch away!!
                >
                >
                > - Cookie -
              • Mil Goose
                ... ....well, how about Donachie s By the mast divided ? There s a synopsis on the right-hand side of page on link below. I think his John Pearce is very
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 3, 2005
                  --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "Nathan" <sailor1775@y...> wrote:

                  > I would like to see more books that feature the common Jack Tar like
                  > the first few Kydd novels.
                  >


                  ....well, how about Donachie's "By the mast divided"? There's a
                  synopsis on the right-hand side of page on link below. I think his
                  John Pearce is very believable, and look forward to the next in the
                  adventure due out in a month or so, "A shot rolling ship".

                  http://www.tallshipsbooks.com/Authors/DonachieDavid/default-
                  Donachie.html


                  - Cookie -
                • charles white
                  Hi all, Just dropping a line to let everyone know they can read J. Stevens interview at tallshipsbooks.com if they like; he s go some pretty interesting
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 3, 2005
                    Hi all,

                    Just dropping a line to let everyone know they can read J. Stevens'
                    interview at tallshipsbooks.com if they like; he's go some pretty
                    interesting things to say re sea fiction.

                    Best,
                    Charles



                    Charles White
                    ltmarlborough@...
                    www.charlesdwhite.com




                    >From: "John Stevens" <jjts01757@...>
                    >Reply-To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                    >To: Bolitho@yahoogroups.com
                    >Subject: [Bolitho] Re: Your AoS fiction dislike
                    >Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 01:20:41 -0000
                    >
                    >--- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "Mil Goose" <mmgoose@m...> wrote:
                    > > ...let's liven this list up a bit.... we've sort of done this
                    >before,
                    > > but who don't you like in AoS fiction, and why? It's not limited to
                    > > Kent..... grouch away!!
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > - Cookie -
                    >
                    >I can't stand Dudly Pope's use of the phrase "the Juno frigate"
                    >or "Triton brig" or any other variation thereof. It just sets my teeth
                    >on edge and renders his work unreadable to me.
                    >
                    >It's probably petty but I can help it.
                    >
                    >John
                    >
                    >
                  • John Stevens
                    Modest? I wouldn t put it that way. I just don t see that I ve done anything that special. Oh I m glad that people are enjoying Uncommon Valour s first two
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 3, 2005
                      Modest?

                      I wouldn't put it that way. I just don't see that I've done
                      anything that special. Oh I'm glad that people are enjoying Uncommon
                      Valour's first two stories and am gratified that it seems to be
                      selling fairly well for a book from a small publisher. But I'm well
                      aware that many of our regular posters here could do the same thing
                      if they wanted.

                      It helps to keep me from getting a swelled head. ;)

                      I must admit that I'm rather curious as to why you choose to use
                      that particular picture of the two I provided. Did you just like the
                      sword or was it something else?

                      John

                      P.S. BTW that sword is pretty close to what I see Sinclair's
                      presentation smallsword - the one the people of Thornbury gave after
                      Erris Head - looking like.



                      --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "charles white" <ltmarlborough@h...>
                      wrote:
                      > Hi all,
                      >
                      > Just dropping a line to let everyone know they can read J.
                      Stevens'
                      > interview at tallshipsbooks.com if they like; he's go some pretty
                      > interesting things to say re sea fiction.
                      >
                      > Best,
                      > Charles
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Charles White
                      > ltmarlborough@h...
                      > www.charlesdwhite.com
                      >
                    • Nathan
                      Thanks! Definately looks like fun adventure! I m going to check it out.
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 3, 2005
                        Thanks! Definately looks like fun adventure! I'm going to check it out.

                        --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "Mil Goose" <mmgoose@m...> wrote:
                        > --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "Nathan" <sailor1775@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > I would like to see more books that feature the common Jack Tar like
                        > > the first few Kydd novels.
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > ....well, how about Donachie's "By the mast divided"? There's a
                        > synopsis on the right-hand side of page on link below. I think his
                        > John Pearce is very believable, and look forward to the next in the
                        > adventure due out in a month or so, "A shot rolling ship".
                        >
                        > http://www.tallshipsbooks.com/Authors/DonachieDavid/default-
                        > Donachie.html
                        >
                        >
                        > - Cookie -
                      • Dave Bennett
                        ... And since Bird was writing his own history more or less, who could argue with him?? Dave Bennett Aldergrove, BC You have to allow a certain amount of time
                        Message 11 of 17 , Aug 3, 2005
                          >To paraphrase the late Gene Roddenberry "Historical accuracy
                          >where possible but don't be afraid to stretch things for a good
                          >story."
                          >
                          >John


                          And since Bird was writing his own history more or less, who could
                          argue with him??

                          Dave Bennett
                          Aldergrove, BC
                          "You have to allow a certain amount of time in which you are doing
                          nothing in order to have things occur to you, to let your mind
                          think." -- <http://answers.com/Mortimer%20Adler>Mortimer Adler


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                        • Dave Bennett
                          ... They can get kind of tedious too though ... for instance, Wiki Coffin in A Watery Grave by Joan Druett (who, in my opinion, didn t do a very creditable
                          Message 12 of 17 , Aug 3, 2005
                            >I would like to see more books that feature the common Jack Tar like
                            >the first few Kydd novels.

                            They can get kind of tedious too though ... for instance, Wiki Coffin
                            in "A Watery Grave" by Joan Druett (who, in my opinion, didn't do a
                            very creditable job in other details too!)


                            Dave Bennett
                            Aldergrove, BC
                            "You have to allow a certain amount of time in which you are doing
                            nothing in order to have things occur to you, to let your mind
                            think." -- <http://answers.com/Mortimer%20Adler>Mortimer Adler


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                          • John Stevens
                            His original quote was referring to Scientific rather than Historical accuracy. I was merely paraphrasing. :) ... 8/2/2005 ... 8/2/2005
                            Message 13 of 17 , Aug 3, 2005
                              His original quote was referring to Scientific rather than
                              Historical accuracy. I was merely paraphrasing. :)

                              --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, Dave Bennett <dave1942@t...> wrote:
                              >
                              > >To paraphrase the late Gene Roddenberry "Historical accuracy
                              > >where possible but don't be afraid to stretch things for a good
                              > >story."
                              > >
                              > >John
                              >
                              >
                              > And since Bird was writing his own history more or less, who could
                              > argue with him??
                              >
                              > Dave Bennett
                              > Aldergrove, BC
                              > "You have to allow a certain amount of time in which you are doing
                              > nothing in order to have things occur to you, to let your mind
                              > think." -- <http://answers.com/Mortimer%20Adler>Mortimer Adler
                              >
                              >
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                              8/2/2005
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                            • Preziosia@aol.com
                              My Dislike? Simple...and the very reason I dumped my entire Patrick O Brien collection.... Lucky Jack Aubrey went aground so many times he might as well have
                              Message 14 of 17 , Aug 4, 2005
                                 My Dislike?
                                 
                                  Simple...and the very reason I dumped my entire Patrick O'Brien collection...."Lucky Jack Aubrey" went aground so many times he might as well have been in Wellington's Penninsular Army.....I think there was a spate of three or four books where he hit land more times than Exxon struck oil....I had other problems with O'Brien...but that was the final straw!
                              • Don Campbell
                                ... which ... to ... command ... I wonder how many kinds of titles ships could carry? I was astounded to read a few years ago that the Bounty of mutiny
                                Message 15 of 17 , Aug 4, 2005
                                  > What I find more irritating is the use of HMS prefix to vessels
                                  which
                                  > were not ship-rigged, e.g. cutters which should have been referred
                                  to
                                  > HM Cutter ----. LOL I was educated on this a few years ago by our
                                  > Admiral Squarebriggs, when in the role-play of the time I had
                                  command
                                  > of HM Cutter Hereward, 10, and not, as he pointed out, HMS
                                  > Hereward. Lesson learned, Admiral Dear!! :>)
                                  >
                                  > - Cookie -

                                  I wonder how many kinds of "titles" ships could carry?
                                  I was astounded to read a few years ago that the "Bounty"
                                  of mutiny fame was a Hired Vessel and thus HMHV "Bounty."
                                  Since it was a Hired vessel, could it have been square/ship
                                  rigged but not HMS?
                                  Were James Cook's vessels of similar HMHV "titles" while
                                  exploring?
                                  Interesting subject.......
                                  Don
                                • Tony
                                  The Bounty is usually known as HMAV Bounty (His Majestys Armed Vessel) at least by the Pitcairn Islanders who are descendants of Fletcher Christian. They
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Aug 5, 2005
                                    The Bounty is usually known as HMAV Bounty (His Majestys Armed Vessel)
                                    at least by the Pitcairn Islanders who are descendants of Fletcher
                                    Christian. They salvaged on of her anchors and it is on proud display
                                    at the 'city centre' in Adamstown (The only village and capital)
                                    Tony Butler
                                    Rear Admiral [rtd]

                                    >
                                    > I wonder how many kinds of "titles" ships could carry?
                                    > I was astounded to read a few years ago that the "Bounty"
                                    > of mutiny fame was a Hired Vessel and thus HMHV "Bounty."
                                    > Since it was a Hired vessel, could it have been square/ship
                                    > rigged but not HMS?
                                    > Were James Cook's vessels of similar HMHV "titles" while
                                    > exploring?
                                    > Interesting subject.......
                                    > Don
                                  • Don Campbell
                                    Thanks, Admiral for your input. It would seem that those people would know if anyone would. I do not remember where I read that Bounty was referred to as HMHV
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Aug 5, 2005
                                      Thanks, Admiral for your input. It would seem that
                                      those people would know if anyone would.

                                      I do not remember where I read that Bounty was
                                      referred to as HMHV but I an pretty certain it was
                                      a non-fiction book. However, people who you would
                                      expect to do their research properly might not always
                                      do it correctly.

                                      In the non-fiction book "Mutiny on the Bounty" by
                                      Charles Nordhoff and James Norman Hall, it is referred
                                      to as HMS Bounty (which probably is wrong) and in
                                      "The Bounty" by Caroline Alexander, it is HMV
                                      (His Majesty's Vessel) Bounty.

                                      It's amazing that for this one ship we now have
                                      four "titles":
                                      HMS (His Majesty's Ship),
                                      HMHV (His Majesty's Hired Vessel),
                                      MHAV (His Majesty's Armed Vessel), and
                                      HMV (His Majesty's Vessel).

                                      We're getting a pretty long list just with the Bounty.
                                      Amazing.

                                      Don


                                      --- In Bolitho@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <tonybutler2003@y...> wrote:
                                      > The Bounty is usually known as HMAV Bounty (His Majestys Armed
                                      Vessel)
                                      > at least by the Pitcairn Islanders who are descendants of Fletcher
                                      > Christian. They salvaged on of her anchors and it is on proud
                                      display
                                      > at the 'city centre' in Adamstown (The only village and capital)
                                      > Tony Butler
                                      > Rear Admiral [rtd]
                                      >
                                      > >
                                      > > I wonder how many kinds of "titles" ships could carry?
                                      > > I was astounded to read a few years ago that the "Bounty"
                                      > > of mutiny fame was a Hired Vessel and thus HMHV "Bounty."
                                      > > Since it was a Hired vessel, could it have been square/ship
                                      > > rigged but not HMS?
                                      > > Were James Cook's vessels of similar HMHV "titles" while
                                      > > exploring?
                                      > > Interesting subject.......
                                      > > Don
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