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Design #459 for sale

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  • gbship
    With great reluctance, I m stepping up my half-hearted attempt to sell Le Dulci-mer, Bolger design #459. She needs someone who will use her more than I do.
    Message 1 of 3 , Aug 18, 2009
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      With great reluctance, I'm stepping up my half-hearted attempt to sell Le Dulci-mer, Bolger design #459. She needs someone who will use her more than I do. This was a custom design done for me and built in 1986/87. It was originally designed for the OSTAR, but modified in 2000/01 for more coastal cruising, getting a higher and longer cabin, a fold-down mast, and the prototype wing keel design for the Insolent 60.

      She's 29' 10" LOA, 7'10" beam and 4'9" draft, although the keel partially retracts. She carries a 386 square foot balanced lug and there's a spare main plus a 120 square foot storm sail (with a reef). The outboard is a 1985 7.5 HP Mercury, long shaft, built especially for sailboats. The motor originally had an electric start and small generator, but neither works now and I suspect the parts are no longer available. It starts reliably, however, on the second or third pull. All running and interior lights are LED. Two anchors, single-burner sea swing stove, & old but working autopilot (which I'm considering keeping, but let's talk . . .). I think the VHF, which is as old as the boat, has given up the ghost, but I haven't checked for sure. There is a working antenna & cable, though. There's a two-speed Barlow 25 for the halyard and a single speed Barlow 20 for reefing, plus a spare Barlow 20.

      There's a folder in the photos section, under Design #459.

      Videos here:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7AlSqLrD74
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUcwaL9VYro
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sq2Ehije3Dk

      There are two options here. The first is for the boat as is. It's sailable now, but due for a haulout and the keel is going to need several hundred dollars of maintenance. The price this way is negotiable -- I'm interested in the boat finding a good home.

      The second option is for the hull only, to be used as a low-speed, low powered powerboat. My guess is a 10 hp motor at less that full throttle will drive this hull at hull speed, around 7 knots. I discussed this with Bolger last fall and he thought the hull would be very suitable for this purpose, even for unprotected waters. Without the keel, I thought she might need some ballast, but Bolger said that wouldn't be necessary. (Of course, the keel weighs 1,200 to 1,400 pounds, and you could replace that with an equal weight of batteries and make her an electric boat.) Anyway, with this option, I'll remove all the gear -- winches, anchors, motor, sails, etc. -- and the hull is free. You'll still have some expense because the boat will have to be hauled so the keel can be removed, unless you have a big enough trailer to take it home and do that. The keel will have to be replaced with a small fin or centerboard to provide directional stability, otherwise when you turn the motor sharply, the hull might go sideways.

      The boat is located on the Gulf of Mexico, 30 miles south of Tallahassee, FL.

      Contact me at gbship@...

      Gary Blankenship
    • Thomas Hayes-morrison
      Dear Gary, I m writing in response to your Yahoo Bolger Group email on selling Le Dulci-Mer. I had a Bolger Martha Jane and I ve been looking for a larger
      Message 2 of 3 , Aug 19, 2009
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        Dear Gary,
        I'm writing in response to your Yahoo Bolger Group email on selling Le Dulci-Mer. I had a Bolger Martha Jane and I've been looking for a larger Bolger design. I am, therefore, interested in your boat. My sharpie gave me a great appreciation for Bolger and his ability to design practical, functional, and good performing boats whose appearance you could learn to appreciate, if not love, over time. I have just finished your Duckworks article on Phil's death which I found while looking for general info on design #459. I envy you your relationship with him. I have his book "Boats with an Open Mind" which lead to my Martha Jane. I also have his Schorpien novel which has not lead me to Africa in search of a more libertarian society...yet. What an imagination he had!

        Anyway, I have some questions:
         1. What does she displace?
         2. What is her draft with the keel fully retracted?
         3. What maintenance work does the keel need? I feel as if I didn't follow as well as I should have your explanation of the keel and its wing adjustment mechanism in the duckworks article. I assume the keel is all steel? If so, is the issue corrosion (internal?) control? Does it need to be replaced? I've had a steel boat, and I'm comfortable with steel and salt water, but it can try your soul.
         4. Is the keel pivot mechanism sound? 
         5. Are there other non-cosmetic maintenance issues?
         6. Do the decks, cabin, or the hull leak?
         7. What type of wood is the plywood made up of. I assume it is marine grade? Did you saturate it with epoxy? If so, inside and outside? Is there any delamination? I assume you did not cover the hull with glass? What are the general scantlines?
         8. How much does the mast weigh? Can one reasonably healthy adult raise and lower it without help? Is the tabernacle sound?
         9. Is she currently sailable without major maintenance? I looked at the U-Tube videos and the photos on the Yahoo group. It's clear she needs to be cleaned up and painted to return to her photo appearance which is ok with me. I can do pretty extensive "normal" maintenance but a major rebuild is probably beyond me.
         10. What else should I have asked?

        In looking at my list, I recognize that I may have asked a seemingly unreasonable number of questions for an initial inquiry.  It seems to me that this is probably a rather special boat and as such will require an unusual commitment, so if it's not a good initial fit, why waste either of our time by me coming to look at it? I appreciate any information you can give me. Finally, I seem to recall now that I may have seen her listed on Craig's list a while back. If so, I apologize for not realizing what I was looking at.

        I live in Gainesville, Florida so it will be relatively easy for me to come look. I can be reached not only by email but by phone at 352-246-2620. I look forward to hearing from you.

        Tom Hayes-Morrison


        --- On Tue, 8/18/09, gbship <gbship@...> wrote:

        From: gbship <gbship@...>
        Subject: [Bolger4Sale] Design #459 for sale
        To: Bolger4Sale@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 7:46 PM






         





        With great reluctance, I'm stepping up my half-hearted attempt to sell Le Dulci-mer, Bolger design #459. She needs someone who will use her more than I do. This was a custom design done for me and built in 1986/87. It was originally designed for the OSTAR, but modified in 2000/01 for more coastal cruising, getting a higher and longer cabin, a fold-down mast, and the prototype wing keel design for the Insolent 60.



        She's 29' 10" LOA, 7'10" beam and 4'9" draft, although the keel partially retracts. She carries a 386 square foot balanced lug and there's a spare main plus a 120 square foot storm sail (with a reef). The outboard is a 1985 7.5 HP Mercury, long shaft, built especially for sailboats. The motor originally had an electric start and small generator, but neither works now and I suspect the parts are no longer available. It starts reliably, however, on the second or third pull. All running and interior lights are LED. Two anchors, single-burner sea swing stove, & old but working autopilot (which I'm considering keeping, but let's talk . . .). I think the VHF, which is as old as the boat, has given up the ghost, but I haven't checked for sure. There is a working antenna & cable, though. There's a two-speed Barlow 25 for the halyard and a single speed Barlow 20 for reefing, plus a spare Barlow 20.



        There's a folder in the photos section, under Design #459.



        Videos here:

        http://www.youtube com/watch? v=G7AlSqLrD74

        http://www.youtube com/watch? v=WUcwaL9VYro

        http://www.youtube com/watch? v=sq2Ehije3Dk



        There are two options here. The first is for the boat as is. It's sailable now, but due for a haulout and the keel is going to need several hundred dollars of maintenance. The price this way is negotiable -- I'm interested in the boat finding a good home.



        The second option is for the hull only, to be used as a low-speed, low powered powerboat. My guess is a 10 hp motor at less that full throttle will drive this hull at hull speed, around 7 knots. I discussed this with Bolger last fall and he thought the hull would be very suitable for this purpose, even for unprotected waters. Without the keel, I thought she might need some ballast, but Bolger said that wouldn't be necessary. (Of course, the keel weighs 1,200 to 1,400 pounds, and you could replace that with an equal weight of batteries and make her an electric boat.) Anyway, with this option, I'll remove all the gear -- winches, anchors, motor, sails, etc. -- and the hull is free. You'll still have some expense because the boat will have to be hauled so the keel can be removed, unless you have a big enough trailer to take it home and do that. The keel will have to be replaced with a small fin or centerboard to provide directional stability, otherwise when
        you turn the motor sharply, the hull might go sideways.



        The boat is located on the Gulf of Mexico, 30 miles south of Tallahassee, FL.



        Contact me at gbship@comcast. net



        Gary Blankenship































        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • gbship
        I ve emailed Thomas with a reply to his questions, but thought it might be helpful to post them here . . . Gary 1. The designed displacement is 5,500 pounds,
        Message 3 of 3 , Aug 20, 2009
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          I've emailed Thomas with a reply to his questions, but thought it might be helpful to post them here . . .

          Gary

          1. The designed displacement is 5,500 pounds, and she floats on her lines. But I can't come up with that much weight when I consider the various parts individually, so I assume the that displacement includes stores & supplies. The bare hull & deck weigh about a ton, give or take.

          2. The draft with the keel fully retracted is around 3 feet, but she won't sail that way, or at least won't sail well and will motor very slowly. It's useful only for getting off after running around or getting over short, shallow spots. The wings were supposed to pivot on the keel, remaining parallel to the bottom as the keel retracts, which would actually reduce drag. that depended on a fiberglass I-beam running through the middle of the keel, attached to a bar running through the aft ends of the wing. Unfortunately, the attachment point to the hull for that bar wasn't designed strong enough and broke (fortunately, while the boat was hauled). So I fixed the wings in place, they no longer pivot. So as the wings angle up and create a lot of drag. I've attached another picture showing the keel partially raised that illustrates the point better than I can explain it!

          On a related point, when I fixed the wings, I carefully got them parallel to the bottom with the keel at the proper depth. A bit later, I ran aground under power (at low speed) and had to raise the keel a couple inches to get off. I noticed the speed of the boat actually increased about 0.3 knots, and wrote Bolger about that. He commented he suspected there was an ideal angle of incidence, where the wings are slightly canted up, that would improve performance. I haven't gotten it exactly located and marked, but it has teased me. I have, with the wing keel, tacked within 90 degrees, which is about unheard of for a balanced lug.

          3. The steel body of the keel has both rust and electrolisis, but it's still structurally sound; at least I had it out in 20-plus knots last week and about a 30-degree heel and it didn't fall off . . . . My plan is to put a couple 1 inch steel rods the length of the keel for extra strength, and then fill it with epoxy resin. I'll probably also sandblast it and fiberglass the outside, too. I'd consider replacing it, mostly because I'd do away with the wings. Although they allow the boat to point higher, it's a bit slower on other points of sail. I've come up with a scheme for making a keel out of plywood, steel I-beams, lead and epoxy that avoids welding and melting lead. A new keel also gives you flexibility on the configuration. The original fixed keel drew 7 feet, was made of stainless and had about 800 pounds of lead in the bottom. That was shortened to 5.5 feet (I live in a shallow part of the Gulf) and a 200 pounds of lead added to compensate. Note that any keel longer than 4 feet 9 inches will extend beyond the keel case. It will partially retract but the back edge of the keel will hit the bottom at the back edge of the keel case. (That's because the case was designed to house a fixed, nonpivoting keel and it's length was irrelevant.) You could cut down the height of the keel case and return it to the fixed configuration, but I think it's worth it to be able to lift the keel to get over shallow spots. You can also make a wider and shallower keel; Bolger once told me it could be as little as around 2.5 feet, although windward ability and stability would suffer.

          4. As far as I know, the keel pivoting mechanism is sound. It pivots on a 1 3/8 stainless pin and using a Fulton 2500 pount automatic brake winch to raise and lower it. I use 1/4 inch stainless wire as the pennant and change the attaching shackles each haulout to prevent wear.

          5. The forward face of the cabin has a companionway slide (It's double slotted so two slides can be used in heavy weather) and there's a little rot in the port slide.

          6. There's a slight leak, less than the rate of evaporation on a sunny day, at the forward port side of the keel case. A spot of 3M 5200 should fix it, but the keel will have to be removed to get at the inside of the case there. As far as I can tell, the leak is between glued joints and the water has not pentrated any wood. No leaks in the deck.

          7. The hull and deck are 1/2 inch fir marine ply. I used some waterproof BC pine when the cabin was raised and extended. There are four layers of fiberglass tape on the outside of each chine and the hull exterior is covered with two layers of glass set in epoxy, lapped at the chines. (That's a total of 8 layers at the chines.) Inside, there's three layers of tape at the chines and the ply is coated with epoxy. The hull/deck clamp is 1.5 by 1.5 fir, and there's a similarly sized pine stringer that runs logitudinally down the middle of each bilge panel. The logs for the keel case are curved to match the bottom but are roughly 4 x 6 ash -- tremedously strong. Framing for the transom is 2 x 4. there's also extra reinforcing on the forward sections of the bottom panel.

          8. The mast weighs around 200 pounds. The original lifting/lowering scheme had a flaw, it worked a time or two and then broke down. I've got most of a replacement system in place, but haven't had to raise or lower it lately. It could be done easily at the dock if there's a solid attachment point in front of the boat.

          9. she is sailable as it (I've had her out twice in the past two weeks, once in strong winds) and actually looks better than in the videos as I finally got around to cleaning up the deck. Part of the reason for letting her go is I just don't have the time to keep her up as she should be, and as Bolger pointed out once, that's hard on the conscience. The hull was painted on the last haulout, but the deck could probably use some touchup.

          10. Can't think of much you missed in your questions. You're right about this needing to be the right match. Le Dulci-Mer is too spartan for most people's tastes, but I enjoy it as is. I go sailing for simplicity, not complication and this is a boat for someone who enjoys sailing and not fussing around with various "systems" that have nothing to do with a boat's performance.

          BTW, weather permitting, I'm hoping to take her out again Saturday.

          --- In Bolger4Sale@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Hayes-morrison <thomasfhm@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Gary,
          > I'm writing in response to your Yahoo Bolger Group email on selling Le Dulci-Mer. I had a Bolger Martha Jane and I've been looking for a larger Bolger design. I am, therefore, interested in your boat. My sharpie gave me a great appreciation for Bolger and his ability to design practical, functional, and good performing boats whose appearance you could learn to appreciate, if not love, over time. I have just finished your Duckworks article on Phil's death which I found while looking for general info on design #459. I envy you your relationship with him. I have his book "Boats with an Open Mind" which lead to my Martha Jane. I also have his Schorpien novel which has not lead me to Africa in search of a more libertarian society...yet. What an imagination he had!
          >
          > Anyway, I have some questions:
          >  1. What does she displace?
          >  2. What is her draft with the keel fully retracted?
          >  3. What maintenance work does the keel need? I feel as if I didn't follow as well as I should have your explanation of the keel and its wing adjustment mechanism in the duckworks article. I assume the keel is all steel? If so, is the issue corrosion (internal?) control? Does it need to be replaced? I've had a steel boat, and I'm comfortable with steel and salt water, but it can try your soul.
          >  4. Is the keel pivot mechanism sound? 
          >  5. Are there other non-cosmetic maintenance issues?
          >  6. Do the decks, cabin, or the hull leak?
          >  7. What type of wood is the plywood made up of. I assume it is marine grade? Did you saturate it with epoxy? If so, inside and outside? Is there any delamination? I assume you did not cover the hull with glass? What are the general scantlines?
          >  8. How much does the mast weigh? Can one reasonably healthy adult raise and lower it without help? Is the tabernacle sound?
          >  9. Is she currently sailable without major maintenance? I looked at the U-Tube videos and the photos on the Yahoo group. It's clear she needs to be cleaned up and painted to return to her photo appearance which is ok with me. I can do pretty extensive "normal" maintenance but a major rebuild is probably beyond me.
          >  10. What else should I have asked?
          >
          > In looking at my list, I recognize that I may have asked a seemingly unreasonable number of questions for an initial inquiry.  It seems to me that this is probably a rather special boat and as such will require an unusual commitment, so if it's not a good initial fit, why waste either of our time by me coming to look at it? I appreciate any information you can give me. Finally, I seem to recall now that I may have seen her listed on Craig's list a while back. If so, I apologize for not realizing what I was looking at.
          >
          > I live in Gainesville, Florida so it will be relatively easy for me to come look. I can be reached not only by email but by phone at 352-246-2620. I look forward to hearing from you.
          >
          > Tom Hayes-Morrison
          >
          >
          > --- On Tue, 8/18/09, gbship <gbship@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: gbship <gbship@...>
          > Subject: [Bolger4Sale] Design #459 for sale
          > To: Bolger4Sale@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 7:46 PM
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > With great reluctance, I'm stepping up my half-hearted attempt to sell Le Dulci-mer, Bolger design #459. She needs someone who will use her more than I do. This was a custom design done for me and built in 1986/87. It was originally designed for the OSTAR, but modified in 2000/01 for more coastal cruising, getting a higher and longer cabin, a fold-down mast, and the prototype wing keel design for the Insolent 60.
          >
          >
          >
          > She's 29' 10" LOA, 7'10" beam and 4'9" draft, although the keel partially retracts. She carries a 386 square foot balanced lug and there's a spare main plus a 120 square foot storm sail (with a reef). The outboard is a 1985 7.5 HP Mercury, long shaft, built especially for sailboats. The motor originally had an electric start and small generator, but neither works now and I suspect the parts are no longer available. It starts reliably, however, on the second or third pull. All running and interior lights are LED. Two anchors, single-burner sea swing stove, & old but working autopilot (which I'm considering keeping, but let's talk . . .). I think the VHF, which is as old as the boat, has given up the ghost, but I haven't checked for sure. There is a working antenna & cable, though. There's a two-speed Barlow 25 for the halyard and a single speed Barlow 20 for reefing, plus a spare Barlow 20.
          >
          >
          >
          > There's a folder in the photos section, under Design #459.
          >
          >
          >
          > Videos here:
          >
          > http://www.youtube com/watch? v=G7AlSqLrD74
          >
          > http://www.youtube com/watch? v=WUcwaL9VYro
          >
          > http://www.youtube com/watch? v=sq2Ehije3Dk
          >
          >
          >
          > There are two options here. The first is for the boat as is. It's sailable now, but due for a haulout and the keel is going to need several hundred dollars of maintenance. The price this way is negotiable -- I'm interested in the boat finding a good home.
          >
          >
          >
          > The second option is for the hull only, to be used as a low-speed, low powered powerboat. My guess is a 10 hp motor at less that full throttle will drive this hull at hull speed, around 7 knots. I discussed this with Bolger last fall and he thought the hull would be very suitable for this purpose, even for unprotected waters. Without the keel, I thought she might need some ballast, but Bolger said that wouldn't be necessary. (Of course, the keel weighs 1,200 to 1,400 pounds, and you could replace that with an equal weight of batteries and make her an electric boat.) Anyway, with this option, I'll remove all the gear -- winches, anchors, motor, sails, etc. -- and the hull is free. You'll still have some expense because the boat will have to be hauled so the keel can be removed, unless you have a big enough trailer to take it home and do that. The keel will have to be replaced with a small fin or centerboard to provide directional stability, otherwise when
          > you turn the motor sharply, the hull might go sideways.
          >
          >
          >
          > The boat is located on the Gulf of Mexico, 30 miles south of Tallahassee, FL.
          >
          >
          >
          > Contact me at gbship@comcast. net
          >
          >
          >
          > Gary Blankenship
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