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Re: Oldshoe Sailing Qualities

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  • clcboats
    ... This was a description I wrote for one of the Bolger groups, years ... I built an Oldshoe when I was a freshman at Washington College in Maryland. I was on
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 21, 2003
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      > Thanks for the info, Ned. How did you find the
      > oldshoe to sail?
      >


      This was a description I wrote for one of the Bolger groups, years
      ago:

      >>>>>>>>>>>>>
      I built an Oldshoe when I was a freshman at Washington College in
      Maryland. I was on the sailing team, and I wanted a fun, dry
      daysailer that I could sail after the racing season ended in late
      October. I also wanted a camp-cruiser for expeditions on the
      Chesapeake.

      I built the boat out of marine fir, bonded with epoxy and sheathed
      in fiberglass set in polyester resin. Going on ten years later, the
      boat has held up well and looks great. Wish I could have afforded to
      encapsulate the entire boat in epoxy.

      My sailing experience includes everything from planing dinghies and
      traditional small craft to large cruisers, but my Oldshoe remains
      one of the most interesting and fun little boats to sail I've ever
      known. In spite of its weight and bulk, it floats like a duck and
      will get right up to hull speed as long as the wind is over 7-8
      knots. Below 8 knots, performance can be stodgy and careful trim and
      helming is required to maintain good speeds. VMG to windward is
      merely adequate, and a steep chop or motor boat waves will stop the
      Oldshoe on a beat, especially in light airs but also in winds over
      15-18 knots. On a reach in a good breeze this boat will bring a
      smile to even the most hardened anti-Bolger types. (I took great
      pleasure in luring doubters out for a sail in my Oldshoe. Never
      failed to make a convert of them.)

      As a camp-cruiser, I think it is without peer among boats in its
      class. I'd certainly rather cruise in my Oldshoe than in a Wayfarer
      or some such. The cockpit is more comfortable than many 30-footers
      of my aquaintance, and the stowage is voluminous.

      I have only a few retrospective comments:
      1. I found the lead keel a pain to fabricate, although I note that
      at the time I had zero foundry experience. Even now I'd be inclined
      to let someone with proper foundry equipment and experience make up
      the ballast keel. I used discarded wheel weights from a service
      station.

      2. Spend money on good sails. I bought a fine suit of tanbark sails
      by Ulmer-Kolius when I built mine, and thanked myself every time I
      used the boat. It's a good little sailer but doesn't have much
      performance to spare. Well-cut sails are essential, and don't be
      tempted to economize here.

      3. Take care to seal up the footwell with lots and lots of epoxy. My
      Oldshoe has lived its entire life outdoors, and the cockpit is
      inevitably full of rain water. My joinery in the cockpit was
      somewhat indifferent and as a result water would leak into the
      compartments if rainwater collected. Bathe the footwell in epoxy,
      with oversized fillets between footwell and bottom panels.

      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    • Sam Glasscock
      Upon mature reflection (there is a first!) I just can t handle the oldshoe. I am posting this on Bolger4-sale so the group will not get the impression that
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 21, 2003
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        Upon mature reflection (there is a first!) I just
        can't handle the oldshoe. I am posting this on
        Bolger4-sale so the group will not get the impression
        that she is spoken for. For what you are asking she
        is an incredible opportunity for anyone who wants an
        oldshoe--I have just determined that I have so many
        boat-related projects that she would sit in my yard
        the same as she is sitting in yours. Somebody is
        going to get a great little boat, though. Sam

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      • Sam Glasscock
        Bruce, the oldshoe belongs to John Harris, on Kent Island on the Eastern Shore of Maryland. I have ... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 21, 2003
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          Bruce, the oldshoe belongs to John Harris, on Kent
          Island on the Eastern Shore of Maryland. I have
          appended the original post below:
          --- clcboats <kayaks@...> wrote:
          > Ah, time to clear the yard.
          >
          > I had many wonderful adventures in my "Oldshoe."
          > Now it's time to
          > face the fact that I have too many boats, and that
          > the Oldshoe has
          > been neglected.
          >
          > It has been stored outdoors for several years now
          > and is in "rough"
          > condition cosmetically, though it seems to be sound
          > throughout. All
          > of the paintwork above the waterline will need to be
          > renewed.
          > Hatches and floorboards will need to be restored or
          > built anew.
          > Likewise the tiller, and the rudder has minor damage
          > to one endplate.
          >
          > This Oldshoe was built to very high standards;
          > marine fir plywood,
          > epoxy, fiberglass sheathing on the outside, douglas
          > fir framing.
          > For this reason it has held up well. In its day it
          > was probably the
          > nicest example of an Oldshoe afloat, with clean
          > joinery, many nice
          > tweaks and neat details.
          >
          > Western red cedar main and mizzen masts have been
          > stored indoors but
          > are in need of sanding and varnishing. Ditto the
          > sprit booms. The
          > tanbark sails are in "good" condition and have
          > several seasons left
          > in them, even by my dinghy-racer standards. New
          > running rigging
          > will be needed.
          >
          > I have put the boat under cover and made sure it is
          > empty of
          > rainwater. What's required is to get the boat
          > indoors for a few
          > weeks to dry out before scraping, sanding, and
          > painting.
          >
          > There is no trailer.
          >
          > $400 takes the hull, spars and sails as is. If
          > you're contemplating
          > building an Oldshoe, this would represent an
          > excellent value. It
          > would put you way ahead of scratch-building; the
          > sails alone for a
          > new Oldshoe would cost more than $400. I think mine
          > cost about
          > $1800 to build in 1992, excluding trailer and
          > outboard.
          >
          > John C. Harris
          > Near Annapolis, Maryland
          >
          >


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        • Bruce C. Anderson
          Howdy Sam ... Thanks, though it looks a little out or range for me. :) See Ya Have Fun Bruce http://myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson/
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 21, 2003
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            Howdy Sam

            > -----Original Message-----

            > Subject: Re: [Bolger4Sale] Oldshoe For Sale
            >
            >
            > Bruce, the oldshoe belongs to John Harris, on Kent
            > Island on the Eastern Shore of Maryland. I have
            > appended the original post below:

            Thanks, though it looks a little out or range for me. :)

            See Ya

            Have Fun

            Bruce

            http://myweb.cableone.net/bcanderson/
          • Nels
            ... sell her about 4-5 years ago. With some of the recent discussion on Bolger3 about Navigator mods, I ve often wondered if OS could be upgraded in a similar
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 21, 2003
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              --- In Bolger4Sale@yahoogroups.com, Ned Asplundh <nasplundh@y...>
              wrote:
              > Ahoy Sam, John, and all,
              >(Sigh) T'was a great boat and still kicking myself for having to
              sell her about 4-5 years ago. With some of the recent discussion on
              Bolger3 about Navigator mods, I've often wondered if OS could be
              upgraded in a similar manner. Whatcha think?
              >
              Funny thing! I was just looking at BWAOM last night - Ch.
              9 "Supermouse" and thought that the type of topper shown on it would
              work for OS. Build it in two pieces with the whole boat open down the
              centerline, from stem to stern, except for maybe an enclusre for a
              porta potti. Have it so that it would be removeable - bolting on just
              like a truck topper.

              I think on a boat that small the same sail as shown for Supermouse
              would work without going to the trouble and expense of a Chinese lug
              set-up.

              Could also do double duty as a camper trailer and even as utility
              trailer in the off season - haul a lot of empties:-)

              Cheers, Nels
            • James Meloy
              Pardon me Nels - where did you see such a top and how could I get to see it?? I ve been dreaming on such. Thanks, Jim ... From: Nels To:
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 24, 2003
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                Pardon me Nels - where did you see such a top and how could I get to see it??  I've been dreaming on such.
                 
                Thanks, Jim
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Nels
                Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:14 PM
                Subject: [Bolger4Sale] Re: Oldshoe trailer

                --- In Bolger4Sale@yahoogroups.com, Ned Asplundh <nasplundh@y...>
                wrote:
                > Ahoy Sam, John, and all,
                >(Sigh) T'was a great boat and still kicking myself for having to
                sell her about 4-5 years ago. With some of the recent discussion on
                Bolger3 about Navigator mods, I've often wondered if OS could be
                upgraded in a similar manner. Whatcha think?
                >
                Funny thing! I was just looking at BWAOM last night - Ch.
                9 "Supermouse" and thought that the type of topper shown on it would
                work for OS. Build it in two pieces with the whole boat open down the
                centerline, from stem to stern, except for maybe an enclusre for a
                porta potti. Have it so that it would be removeable - bolting on just
                like a truck topper.

                I think on a boat that small the same sail as shown for Supermouse
                would work without going to the trouble and expense of a Chinese lug
                set-up.

                Could also do double duty as a camper trailer and even as utility
                trailer in the off season -  haul a lot of empties:-)

                Cheers, Nels



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              • Nels
                Hi Jim, If you go to Files you will see a folder that contains two pages from the write-up in Boats With An Open Mind describing Supermouse. It is somewhat
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 24, 2003
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                  Hi Jim,

                  If you go to "Files" you will see a folder that contains two pages
                  from the write-up in "Boats With An Open Mind" describing Supermouse.

                  It is somewhat the same size as OS but is meant to be built in
                  lapstrake fashion and has no ballest keel.

                  In the second file it shows a drawing of the cross section and the
                  dotted lines on the inside passageway seem to indicate that the house
                  is attached by frame extensions to the bulkheads at 2' and 9' which
                  are the main watertight bulkheads.

                  So I can imagine that the house could be bolted on at these frame
                  extensions with perhap a couple more extended frames at about the
                  midpoint on each side of the house.

                  The whole cabin can be closed in with a fabric cover that has a few
                  stiffeners sewn into pockets and perhaps a board at each end so that
                  the entrance flaps can be rolled up or battened closed. This would be
                  heavy enough to allow trailering with all your camping gear stored
                  safely in the boat.

                  This model could likely be built like a stripper canoe - including
                  the house. This would make for a very light boat to trailer.

                  I have no idea what the plans would cost. One would have to send a
                  fax to PCB & Friends to find out. My guess would be in the $100
                  range. However if one has Oldshoe plans - the house coud be added,
                  just using this as a guide.

                  Cheers, Nels

                  --- In Bolger4Sale@yahoogroups.com, "James Meloy" <dreambignow@h...>
                  wrote:
                  > Pardon me Nels - where did you see such a top and how could I get
                  to see it?? I've been dreaming on such.
                  >
                  >
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