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Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car

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  • Andrew Hamilton
    Does your car already have those special wheels? I d bet you could recoup a good chunk of the purchase price by reselling those wheels if they are in nice
    Message 1 of 21 , Jan 24, 2013
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      Does your car already have those special wheels?  I'd bet you could recoup a good chunk of the purchase price by reselling those wheels if they are in nice shape.  Do you know what they are made of?

      Andrew


      On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:14 PM, buck rogers <kemukta@...> wrote:
       

      Yes, Ann-Marie, your point is very well taken, and it is also a factor I have long considered.  The beauty of this particular scenario is that EVERY ONE of the one of the 2000  Custom Biarritz Classics that were designed by Cadillac and created by ASC have the exact same alteration sticker applied.  There were several options with this package. One was the package installation with solid roof installation, (1500 cars), one was sunroof (500 cars) and two received this Power T-Top. Regardless of roof treatment, the label from ASC affixed to the drivers door sill all say exactly the same thing as far as I have been able to confirm.  I have exhaustively researched this beginning when I bought mine.  If I were to swap roofs, the codification currently on my car would reflect exactly what the donor car's tag reflected because that information didn't reflect specifically  which roof treatment was selected for each car in the series.  Once ASC folded and was then reincorporated into a series of following companies throughout the years, the original records of both the Toronado T-Top conversions and the Eldorado work done on the Custom Biarritz Classics were lost or destroyed.  This is a particular shame because ASC had done so many special packages for not just Cadillac and Olds, but for most of the major auto manufacturers at some point or another in the form of implementing limited edition special packages and custom, but still factory referred, roof treatments.  

      The rarity of parts for these Power T's is what really makes me nervous about going for this.  But like a starving vagabond who, by sheer happenstances, stumbles into a sumptuous feast and cannot stop eating, I also am having a very hard time stopping my impulse to at least secure the POSSIBILITY of choosing to do this at one point or another. 
      I have to exercise spannungsbogen, that being the discipline to delay or stop  reaching  for a thing even though it is desperately wanted...I also do not want to prevent others who might want to obtain Power T-tops from doing so.  If I am going to buy this, I need to use it, or it just raw greed, comparable to King John fingering his gold while the destitute surrounding Sherwood Forest continue to be wrung dry for taxes.  Oh wait, bad analogy, I just received my W-2 today, and the Internal Revenue Service is eagerly awaiting my responses...


      --- On Thu, 1/24/13, Myjonquil <myjonquil@...> wrote:

      From: Myjonquil <myjonquil@...>
      Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car
      To: Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, January 24, 2013, 9:56 AM


       

      Buck:
      When I first started looking for my Eldorado, I was working with an appraiser. At the time, he was about 100 years old (exaggeration) (kind of), but he told me always always look for a car as true to original as you can find. And always always try to keep your car as true to original as you can...so it will hold value. That being said: a.) I know your situation is different...you have a multitude of cars and they seem more like fun projects for
      you rather than collector car investments. b.) if you ever see Barrett Jackson auctions, some of those custom chop em up change everything about whatever made it original cars go for HUGE dollars. I guess it comes down to what your end goal is: fun or investment? I have to agree with Brian, though, I would never do anything to a car that was "mint". (if I were lucky enough to own a mint car, that is!)

      Ann-Marie


      -----Original Message-----
      From: buck rogers <kemukta@...>
      To: Big_Eldorado <Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:39 pm
      Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car

       
      Ann-Marie, ever the temptress...I keep vacillating back and forth and back again.  I suppose it would be an easier decision if the price of the car in question was a little less.  I mean, how many people spend $2500.00 for the roof of a car?????????????  Then again, how many of us have ever SEEN the power T-tops in action, or even seen them in inaction?  Just the THOUGHT of having the chance to add them to my car is, well, deliciously tempting, especially since my car is garaged ALL the time and only gets driven on fair weather days anyway, so even the threat of normal T-Top leakage is not prohibitive for me.  My issue is that I have a mint Custom Biarritz Classic, and I am so leery of doing anything that might damage it.  Cutting the top off the donor car, cutting the top off mine, doing the headliner work, the reseal work, the re-trimming work, the repainting, the drain tube set up, and getting all that lined up so that it is indistinguishable from the car's original setup, let alone making sure the tops still work, actually does makes me nervous...and I have complicated the issue by making this find available to everyone, so there is that too.  I am sure i am not the only one contemplating this.

      --- On Thu, 1/24/13, Myjonquil <myjonquil@...> wrote:

      From: Myjonquil <myjonquil@...>
      Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car
      To: Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Thursday, January 24, 2013, 6:59 AM

       
      Oh don't let me stop you! :)

      Ann-Marie



      -----Original Message-----
      From: buck rogers <kemukta@...>
      To: Big_Eldorado <Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:42 am
      Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car

       
      Well that is just it...I am not sure I do either.  I would check but we have ladies present...:)

      --- On Wed, 1/23/13, Brian Rachlin <rachlin@...> wrote:

      From: Brian Rachlin <rachlin@...>
      Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car
      To: Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, January 23, 2013, 5:31 PM

       
      I'd cut the roof off and store it until I found the right car to put it on.  I wouldn't have the nads to cut the roof off of a mint car.
       
      Brian


    • buck rogers
      You know, Ann-Marie, there is something you alluded to in this email that is very true .  It IS true this is a hobby for me, as education is my profession,
      Message 2 of 21 , Jan 24, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        You know, Ann-Marie, there is something you alluded to in this email that is very true .  It IS true this is a hobby for me, as education is my profession, but that being said, I only buy NOS or factory parts for my cars and have never dreamed of changing something that would be considered not a factory authorize arrangement.  For example, when I was replacing the exhaust system on my Edsel, I refused to do so until I could procure all the correct hangers for the system.  And yes, I spent an additional many hundreds of dollars on exhaust brackets that 99% of people would never see, but I knew they were they, and that they were correct.  I am in truth rather diseased concerning this point.  I know it is not healthy, but I cannot alter my  cars in any non-approved factory way.  I don't show my cars only because I live in Alaska and they live in Washington and I only get to see them for a few weeks each summer, but I spend the other 11 months researching and procuring what I need to keep things OEM.  I would never dream of chopping my Eldo and turning it into a low ride convertible or something like that, but the Power T-Tops WERE a GM designed application, and ASC WAS the company charged with installing and testing their feasibility.  So it might be stretching the limits of my nature, but given the fact that these ARE GM designed, and WERE applied to a car exactly like mine in every respect excluding the special rims on the parts car, AND the fact that the serial numbers are only 8 digits apart, and customized two days apart, I could sleep knowing it could have easily been my car that got the T-Tops.   But yes, I still agree with you originality is very important, and that is part of inner struggle about attempting this project.  But you are helping me process my own issues concerning it.  How much do you charge per hour?  :)

        --- On Thu, 1/24/13, Myjonquil <myjonquil@...> wrote:

        From: Myjonquil <myjonquil@...>
        Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car
        To: Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, January 24, 2013, 9:56 AM

         

        Buck:
        When I first started looking for my Eldorado, I was working with an appraiser. At the time, he was about 100 years old (exaggeration) (kind of), but he told me always always look for a car as true to original as you can find. And always always try to keep your car as true to original as you can...so it will hold value. That being said: a.) I know your situation is different...you have a multitude of cars and they seem more like fun projects for
        you rather than collector car investments. b.) if you ever see Barrett Jackson auctions, some of those custom chop em up change everything about whatever made it original cars go for HUGE dollars. I guess it comes down to what your end goal is: fun or investment? I have to agree with Brian, though, I would never do anything to a car that was "mint". (if I were lucky enough to own a mint car, that is!)

        Ann-Marie


        -----Original Message-----
        From: buck rogers <kemukta@...>
        To: Big_Eldorado <Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:39 pm
        Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car

         
        Ann-Marie, ever the temptress...I keep vacillating back and forth and back again.  I suppose it would be an easier decision if the price of the car in question was a little less.  I mean, how many people spend $2500.00 for the roof of a car?????????????  Then again, how many of us have ever SEEN the power T-tops in action, or even seen them in inaction?  Just the THOUGHT of having the chance to add them to my car is, well, deliciously tempting, especially since my car is garaged ALL the time and only gets driven on fair weather days anyway, so even the threat of normal T-Top leakage is not prohibitive for me.  My issue is that I have a mint Custom Biarritz Classic, and I am so leery of doing anything that might damage it.  Cutting the top off the donor car, cutting the top off mine, doing the headliner work, the reseal work, the re-trimming work, the repainting, the drain tube set up, and getting all that lined up so that it is indistinguishable from the car's original setup, let alone making sure the tops still work, actually does makes me nervous...and I have complicated the issue by making this find available to everyone, so there is that too.  I am sure i am not the only one contemplating this.

        --- On Thu, 1/24/13, Myjonquil <myjonquil@...> wrote:

        From: Myjonquil <myjonquil@...>
        Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car
        To: Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, January 24, 2013, 6:59 AM

         
        Oh don't let me stop you! :)

        Ann-Marie



        -----Original Message-----
        From: buck rogers <kemukta@...>
        To: Big_Eldorado <Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:42 am
        Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car

         
        Well that is just it...I am not sure I do either.  I would check but we have ladies present...:)

        --- On Wed, 1/23/13, Brian Rachlin <rachlin@...> wrote:

        From: Brian Rachlin <rachlin@...>
        Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car
        To: Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, January 23, 2013, 5:31 PM

         
        
        I'd cut the roof off and store it until I found the right car to put it on.  I wouldn't have the nads to cut the roof off of a mint car.
         
        Brian
      • Myjonquil
        Buck: I think we discussed this before. Education used to be my profession too. I was an English teacher. Like many teachers, I feel the need to evaluate and
        Message 3 of 21 , Jan 24, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Buck:

          I think we discussed this before. Education used to be my profession too. I was an English teacher. Like many teachers, I feel the need to evaluate and re-evaluate things just like you. In education, that's what we do. When faced with a dilemma, I always defer to the experts. I am in no way an expert. On this forum, you will find a lot of great guys who will offer you advice and help. My experience is limited. Brian has a vast array of knowledge, experience and insight when it comes to these cars. I can list a bunch of other guys on here that are especially helpful too. You may want to join your local Cadillac LaSalle club as well. I assume there is one where you live. Someone might have some additional knowledge or advice for you too. You are sort of in unchartered territory here. I tend not to be a risk taker. For me, I wouldn't consider it even if I had unlimited funds and/or time. And, should you undertake this project, who will do the work? You? A mechanic? If it's you...do you have the time?
          I know the reality of a career in education. It doesn't, I'm afraid, leave time for much else. If it's a mechanic, do you know anyone with this kind of proven expertise? My advice is free. But keep in mind, you get what you pay for! :)

          Ann-Marie



          -----Original Message-----
          From: buck rogers <kemukta@...>
          To: Big_Eldorado <Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2013 11:18 pm
          Subject: [Big_Eldorado] Calling Dr. Ann-Marie...

           
          You know, Ann-Marie, there is something you alluded to in this email that is very true .  It IS true this is a hobby for me, as education is my profession, but that being said, I only buy NOS or factory parts for my cars and have never dreamed of changing something that would be considered not a factory authorize arrangement.  For example, when I was replacing the exhaust system on my Edsel, I refused to do so until I could procure all the correct hangers for the system.  And yes, I spent an additional many hundreds of dollars on exhaust brackets that 99% of people would never see, but I knew they were they, and that they were correct.  I am in truth rather diseased concerning this point.  I know it is not healthy, but I cannot alter my  cars in any non-approved factory way.  I don't show my cars only because I live in Alaska and they live in Washington and I only get to see them for a few weeks each summer, but I spend the other 11 months researching and procuring what I need to keep things OEM.  I would never dream of chopping my Eldo and turning it into a low ride convertible or something like that, but the Power T-Tops WERE a GM designed application, and ASC WAS the company charged with installing and testing their feasibility.  So it might be stretching the limits of my nature, but given the fact that these ARE GM designed, and WERE applied to a car exactly like mine in every respect excluding the special rims on the parts car, AND the fact that the serial numbers are only 8 digits apart, and customized two days apart, I could sleep knowing it could have easily been my car that got the T-Tops.   But yes, I still agree with you originality is very important, and that is part of inner struggle about attempting this project.  But you are helping me process my own issues concerning it.  How much do you charge per hour?  :)

          --- On Thu, 1/24/13, Myjonquil <myjonquil@...> wrote:

          From: Myjonquil <myjonquil@...>
          Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car
          To: Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, January 24, 2013, 9:56 AM

           
          Buck:
          When I first started looking for my Eldorado, I was working with an appraiser. At the time, he was about 100 years old (exaggeration) (kind of), but he told me always always look for a car as true to original as you can find. And always always try to keep your car as true to original as you can...so it will hold value. That being said: a.) I know your situation is different...you have a multitude of cars and they seem more like fun projects for
          you rather than collector car investments. b.) if you ever see Barrett Jackson auctions, some of those custom chop em up change everything about whatever made it original cars go for HUGE dollars. I guess it comes down to what your end goal is: fun or investment? I have to agree with Brian, though, I would never do anything to a car that was "mint". (if I were lucky enough to own a mint car, that is!)

          Ann-Marie


          -----Original Message-----
          From: buck rogers <kemukta@...>
          To: Big_Eldorado <Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:39 pm
          Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car

           
          Ann-Marie, ever the temptress...I keep vacillating back and forth and back again.  I suppose it would be an easier decision if the price of the car in question was a little less.  I mean, how many people spend $2500.00 for the roof of a car?????????????  Then again, how many of us have ever SEEN the power T-tops in action, or even seen them in inaction?  Just the THOUGHT of having the chance to add them to my car is, well, deliciously tempting, especially since my car is garaged ALL the time and only gets driven on fair weather days anyway, so even the threat of normal T-Top leakage is not prohibitive for me.  My issue is that I have a mint Custom Biarritz Classic, and I am so leery of doing anything that might damage it.  Cutting the top off the donor car, cutting the top off mine, doing the headliner work, the reseal work, the re-trimming work, the repainting, the drain tube set up, and getting all that lined up so that it is indistinguishable from the car's original setup, let alone making sure the tops still work, actually does makes me nervous...and I have complicated the issue by making this find available to everyone, so there is that too.  I am sure i am not the only one contemplating this.

          --- On Thu, 1/24/13, Myjonquil <myjonquil@...> wrote:

          From: Myjonquil <myjonquil@...>
          Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car
          To: Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, January 24, 2013, 6:59 AM

           
          Oh don't let me stop you! :)

          Ann-Marie



          -----Original Message-----
          From: buck rogers <kemukta@...>
          To: Big_Eldorado <Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:42 am
          Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car

           
          Well that is just it...I am not sure I do either.  I would check but we have ladies present...:)

          --- On Wed, 1/23/13, Brian Rachlin <rachlin@...> wrote:

          From: Brian Rachlin <rachlin@...>
          Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car
          To: Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, January 23, 2013, 5:31 PM

           
          
          I'd cut the roof off and store it until I found the right car to put it on.  I wouldn't have the nads to cut the roof off of a mint car.
           
          Brian
        • buck rogers
          Great questions all, and I would posit this:  the mechanical repairs of drive train and normal operating equipment is completely within my purview.  Paint
          Message 4 of 21 , Jan 24, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Great questions all, and I would posit this:  the mechanical repairs of drive train and normal operating equipment is completely within my purview.  Paint and body I know NOTHING about.  THAT work would be given to an expert body shop, but even they would not necessarily be  prepared to deal with the potential issues raised by an assembly whose seals are made of unobtanium.  And that same assembly has no known supply of parts.  

            AND YET...how cool would it be to flip that switch, watch those panels glide into nowhere, feel that cool breeze in your face on a baking hot day in the Yakima Valley?  It is just too cool for school, and I would love it...

            --- On Thu, 1/24/13, Myjonquil <myjonquil@...> wrote:

            From: Myjonquil <myjonquil@...>
            Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Calling Dr. Ann-Marie...
            To: Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, January 24, 2013, 8:59 PM

             

            Buck:

            I think we discussed this before. Education used to be my profession too. I was an English teacher. Like many teachers, I feel the need to evaluate and re-evaluate things just like you. In education, that's what we do. When faced with a dilemma, I always defer to the experts. I am in no way an expert. On this forum, you will find a lot of great guys who will offer you advice and help. My experience is limited. Brian has a vast array of knowledge, experience and insight when it comes to these cars. I can list a bunch of other guys on here that are especially helpful too. You may want to join your local Cadillac LaSalle club as well. I assume there is one where you live. Someone might have some additional knowledge or advice for you too. You are sort of in unchartered territory here. I tend not to be a risk taker. For me, I wouldn't consider it even if I had unlimited funds and/or time. And, should you undertake this project, who will do the work? You? A mechanic? If it's you...do you have the time?
            I know the reality of a career in education. It doesn't, I'm afraid, leave time for much else. If it's a mechanic, do you know anyone with this kind of proven expertise? My advice is free. But keep in mind, you get what you pay for! :)

            Ann-Marie




            -----Original Message-----
            From: buck rogers <kemukta@...>
            To: Big_Eldorado <Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2013 11:18 pm
            Subject: [Big_Eldorado] Calling Dr. Ann-Marie...

             
            You know, Ann-Marie, there is something you alluded to in this email that is very true .  It IS true this is a hobby for me, as education is my profession, but that being said, I only buy NOS or factory parts for my cars and have never dreamed of changing something that would be considered not a factory authorize arrangement.  For example, when I was replacing the exhaust system on my Edsel, I refused to do so until I could procure all the correct hangers for the system.  And yes, I spent an additional many hundreds of dollars on exhaust brackets that 99% of people would never see, but I knew they were they, and that they were correct.  I am in truth rather diseased concerning this point.  I know it is not healthy, but I cannot alter my  cars in any non-approved factory way.  I don't show my cars only because I live in Alaska and they live in Washington and I only get to see them for a few weeks each summer, but I spend the other 11 months researching and procuring what I need to keep things OEM.  I would never dream of chopping my Eldo and turning it into a low ride convertible or something like that, but the Power T-Tops WERE a GM designed application, and ASC WAS the company charged with installing and testing their feasibility.  So it might be stretching the limits of my nature, but given the fact that these ARE GM designed, and WERE applied to a car exactly like mine in every respect excluding the special rims on the parts car, AND the fact that the serial numbers are only 8 digits apart, and customized two days apart, I could sleep knowing it could have easily been my car that got the T-Tops.   But yes, I still agree with you originality is very important, and that is part of inner struggle about attempting this project.  But you are helping me process my own issues concerning it.  How much do you charge per hour?  :)

            --- On Thu, 1/24/13, Myjonquil <myjonquil@...> wrote:

            From: Myjonquil <myjonquil@...>
            Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car
            To: Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, January 24, 2013, 9:56 AM

             
            Buck:
            When I first started looking for my Eldorado, I was working with an appraiser. At the time, he was about 100 years old (exaggeration) (kind of), but he told me always always look for a car as true to original as you can find. And always always try to keep your car as true to original as you can...so it will hold value. That being said: a.) I know your situation is different...you have a multitude of cars and they seem more like fun projects for
            you rather than collector car investments. b.) if you ever see Barrett Jackson auctions, some of those custom chop em up change everything about whatever made it original cars go for HUGE dollars. I guess it comes down to what your end goal is: fun or investment? I have to agree with Brian, though, I would never do anything to a car that was "mint". (if I were lucky enough to own a mint car, that is!)

            Ann-Marie


            -----Original Message-----
            From: buck rogers <kemukta@...>
            To: Big_Eldorado <Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2013 12:39 pm
            Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car

             
            Ann-Marie, ever the temptress...I keep vacillating back and forth and back again.  I suppose it would be an easier decision if the price of the car in question was a little less.  I mean, how many people spend $2500.00 for the roof of a car?????????????  Then again, how many of us have ever SEEN the power T-tops in action, or even seen them in inaction?  Just the THOUGHT of having the chance to add them to my car is, well, deliciously tempting, especially since my car is garaged ALL the time and only gets driven on fair weather days anyway, so even the threat of normal T-Top leakage is not prohibitive for me.  My issue is that I have a mint Custom Biarritz Classic, and I am so leery of doing anything that might damage it.  Cutting the top off the donor car, cutting the top off mine, doing the headliner work, the reseal work, the re-trimming work, the repainting, the drain tube set up, and getting all that lined up so that it is indistinguishable from the car's original setup, let alone making sure the tops still work, actually does makes me nervous...and I have complicated the issue by making this find available to everyone, so there is that too.  I am sure i am not the only one contemplating this.

            --- On Thu, 1/24/13, Myjonquil <myjonquil@...> wrote:

            From: Myjonquil <myjonquil@...>
            Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car
            To: Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Thursday, January 24, 2013, 6:59 AM

             
            Oh don't let me stop you! :)

            Ann-Marie



            -----Original Message-----
            From: buck rogers <kemukta@...>
            To: Big_Eldorado <Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thu, Jan 24, 2013 1:42 am
            Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car

             
            Well that is just it...I am not sure I do either.  I would check but we have ladies present...:)

            --- On Wed, 1/23/13, Brian Rachlin <rachlin@...> wrote:

            From: Brian Rachlin <rachlin@...>
            Subject: Re: [Big_Eldorado] Power T-Top Parts Car
            To: Big_Eldorado@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, January 23, 2013, 5:31 PM

             
            
            I'd cut the roof off and store it until I found the right car to put it on.  I wouldn't have the nads to cut the roof off of a mint car.
             
            Brian
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