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Re: Green... what?

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  • Rich
    New York..aka fools paradise has a flatbush legilator who just presented a bill to require cyclists to regiseter each bicycle they own( $25. a bike)and pay a
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 1, 2011
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      New York..aka fools paradise has a flatbush legilator who just presented a bill to require cyclists to regiseter each bicycle they own( $25. a bike)and pay a $5. a year tag for each as well.
      I'll repeat my opening line..
      This, folks IS NEW YORK.
      Rich mc.

      --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, "Putnam A. Merriam" <putnammerriam@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi all,
      > What does this mean, "Motorized Bicycle"?... Motorized would be an 'Electricly Powered' bike...thus, a fuel powered bike would be an 'Engine Powered' bicycle.
      > Why would, in this day of our badly needed "Green Movement", would anybody object to something that reduces the demand on our planet?
      > If they're concerned about safety...just let them take a look at the "Humanly Powered" bicycles of the messengers IN New York City!  Those riders go far faster than any electric or gas powered bike I've ever tried....just makes me shake my head...........
      >  
      >                             Putnam
      >                 Knights Landing, CA.
      >                          (Pop. 890)
      >
    • Steve Birmingham
      Is this any real surprise? The same stats about number of riders that are used to lobby for bike lanes and parking also attract the attention of legislators on
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 1, 2011
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        Is this any real surprise? The same stats about number of riders that are used to lobby for bike lanes and parking also attract the attention of legislators on the lookout for revenues. And bikes aren’t taxed much at all. Plus since serious bike riders are still somewhat of a minority, it’s a tax that can easily be passed with little repercussion at the next election.

         

        And I’ll bet it’s being “sold” as a safety/security issue.

        “register your bike! It’s for our own good, we’ll be able to find it if it gets stolen”

        or

        “With bikes registered we can track and ticket dangerous riders”

        or

        “with registration we’ll be able to make the people who abandon bikes pay for the removal which costs the city $XXXXX a year.”

         

         

        And once the registrations are “proven to lower bike crime” can titles be far behind?

         

        Steve B

         

        From: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich
        Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 11:37 AM
        To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Green... what?

         

         

        New York..aka fools paradise has a flatbush legilator who just presented a bill to require cyclists to regiseter each bicycle they own( $25. a bike)and pay a $5. a year tag for each as well.
        I'll repeat my opening line..
        This, folks IS NEW YORK.
        Rich mc.

        --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, "Putnam A. Merriam" <putnammerriam@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi all,
        > What does this mean, "Motorized Bicycle"?... Motorized would be an 'Electricly Powered' bike...thus, a fuel powered bike would be an 'Engine Powered' bicycle.
        > Why would, in this day of our badly needed "Green Movement", would anybody object to something that reduces the demand on our planet?
        > If they're concerned about safety...just let them take a look at the "Humanly Powered" bicycles of the messengers IN New York City!  Those riders go far faster than any electric or gas powered bike I've ever tried....just makes me shake my head...........
        >  
        >                             Putnam
        >                 Knights Landing, CA.
        >                          (Pop. 890)
        >

      • Paul Schmidt
        Plating bikes serves two possible purposes, one is a tax grab, the other is to reduce theft, and reducing theft only works if you could actually absolutely
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 1, 2011
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          Plating bikes serves two possible purposes, one is a tax grab, the other is to reduce theft, and reducing theft only works if you could actually absolutely identify all bicycles. I can't see that working well, especially for older bicycles, look at the number of threads on BikeForums C&V that start: I have this frame, and I have no idea what it is, because someone scraped off the decals and dremelled off the stops and hangers then painted it black and the only number on it looks like it could be B,E,F,H,I or T then C,O,Q or 0 then a number that looks like 23 and there could be 2 or 3 numbers and maybe another letter. 99% of the time, it's simply a tax grab.

          Protests usually come from 3 sources, one is residents who have bicycles, sometimes several who will be majorly hit by the new tax, second is environmental groups who will see people deciding that the extra tax is too big an extra burden and just continue driving, third tourism boards, who see people who would bring and use bikes into the states, avoiding that state because of the extra tax.

          It's been done before and usually the cost to run the program costs more then the fees generated, so they quit after a while.


          On 11-03-01 11:37 AM, Rich wrote:
           

          New York..aka fools paradise has a flatbush legilator who just presented a bill to require cyclists to regiseter each bicycle they own( $25. a bike)and pay a $5. a year tag for each as well.
          I'll repeat my opening line..
          This, folks IS NEW YORK.
          Rich mc.

          --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, "Putnam A. Merriam" <putnammerriam@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi all,
          > What does this mean, "Motorized Bicycle"?... Motorized would be an 'Electricly Powered' bike...thus, a fuel powered bike would be an 'Engine Powered' bicycle.
          > Why would, in this day of our badly needed "Green Movement", would anybody object to something that reduces the demand on our planet?
          > If they're concerned about safety...just let them take a look at the "Humanly Powered" bicycles of the messengers IN New York City!  Those riders go far faster than any electric or gas powered bike I've ever tried....just makes me shake my head...........
          >  
          >                             Putnam
          >                 Knights Landing, CA.
          >                          (Pop. 890)
          >


        • Rick Paulos
          So the bill is anti-bicycle, ie, get those bikes out of my way from a bike hating politician. It only takes one to introduce bills. Fortunately it takes a
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 1, 2011
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            So the bill is anti-bicycle, ie, get those bikes out of my way from a
            bike hating politician. It only takes one to introduce
            bills. Fortunately it takes a bunch more to agree. We had the same
            thing in Iowa 3 years ago. The money would go to trail
            construction. Great idea eh? Once it got to the finance committee,
            some one did the math and figured it would cost more to administer
            than it would bring in. So the finance committed refused to act on
            it. Died right there.

            So what do you mean by This is NEW YORK? Being from a
            wacko-conservative hick midwestern farm state I always looked up to
            New York as an older more experienced big brother (in the nice way,
            not the george orwell way) kind of state. Lots more money, has NYC
            (I mean the real NYC: Manhattan of course), etc. NY is a neat place
            for vacations with the history, shopping and tourism, etc. Here we
            get trends and fads 5 to 7 years after California. Were only a
            couple steps above Kansas (board of education, fred phelps) and Idaho
            (loonies in the woods and ted K). So NY has three political systems,
            the state, NYC and the Unions. We have our share of newly elected
            clueless representatives too.

            Rick
            Iowa.

            At 10:37 AM 3/1/2011, you wrote:
            >
            >
            >New York..aka fools paradise has a flatbush legilator who just
            >presented a bill to require cyclists to regiseter each bicycle they
            >own( $25. a bike)and pay a $5. a year tag for each as well.
            >I'll repeat my opening line..
            >This, folks IS NEW YORK.
            >Rich mc.
          • Craig Maefs
            Gotta love NY State. $25 per bike! That will set me back several hundred dollars. I guess it is an environmental bill. Biker s breathe too hard and use up
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 1, 2011
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              Gotta love NY State.  $25 per bike!  That will set me back several hundred dollars.  I guess it is an environmental bill.  Biker’s breathe too hard and use up too much O2 and produce too much carbon-dioxide.  I always said that if NY State figured out how to charge you per breath  they would. 

               

              Craig R. Maefs

              LTC, U.S. Army(Ret)

               

              From: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich
              Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 11:37 AM
              To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Green... what?

               

               

              New York..aka fools paradise has a flatbush legilator who just presented a bill to require cyclists to regiseter each bicycle they own( $25. a bike)and pay a $5. a year tag for each as well.
              I'll repeat my opening line..
              This, folks IS NEW YORK.
              Rich mc.

              --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, "Putnam A. Merriam" <putnammerriam@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi all,
              > What does this mean, "Motorized Bicycle"?... Motorized would be an 'Electricly Powered' bike...thus, a fuel powered bike would be an 'Engine Powered' bicycle.
              > Why would, in this day of our badly needed "Green Movement", would anybody object to something that reduces the demand on our planet?
              > If they're concerned about safety...just let them take a look at the "Humanly Powered" bicycles of the messengers IN New York City!  Those riders go far faster than any electric or gas powered bike I've ever tried....just makes me shake my head...........
              >  
              >                             Putnam
              >                 Knights Landing, CA.
              >                          (Pop. 890)
              >

            • Rich
              I ve owned my Paramount for 15 years. The bike has never been stolen. Leave a bike somewhere long enough and it ll disappear p[lates or no plates. Anyone who
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 2, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                I've owned my Paramount for 15 years.
                The bike has never been stolen.
                Leave a bike somewhere long enough and it'll disappear p[lates or no plates.
                Anyone who thinks paltes on a bike will get the bike back or keep it from getting stolen in the first place...shouldn't be riding a bike.
                (get a different hobby)
                This proposal has absolutely NO merit othr than generate money for a state which squandered what it had paying off unions/and medicaid to keep it's politicians getting re-elected.
                Rich Mc.




                --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, Paul Schmidt <paul.schmidt@...> wrote:
                >
                > Plating bikes serves two possible purposes, one is a tax grab, the other
                > is to reduce theft, and reducing theft only works if you could actually
                > absolutely identify all bicycles. I can't see that working well,
                > especially for older bicycles, look at the number of threads on
                > BikeForums C&V that start: I have this frame, and I have no idea what it
                > is, because someone scraped off the decals and dremelled off the stops
                > and hangers then painted it black and the only number on it looks like
                > it could be B,E,F,H,I or T then C,O,Q or 0 then a number that looks like
                > 23 and there could be 2 or 3 numbers and maybe another letter. 99% of
                > the time, it's simply a tax grab.
                >
                > Protests usually come from 3 sources, one is residents who have
                > bicycles, sometimes several who will be majorly hit by the new tax,
                > second is environmental groups who will see people deciding that the
                > extra tax is too big an extra burden and just continue driving, third
                > tourism boards, who see people who would bring and use bikes into the
                > states, avoiding that state because of the extra tax.
                >
                > It's been done before and usually the cost to run the program costs more
                > then the fees generated, so they quit after a while.
                >
                >
                > On 11-03-01 11:37 AM, Rich wrote:
                > >
                > > New York..aka fools paradise has a flatbush legilator who just
                > > presented a bill to require cyclists to regiseter each bicycle they
                > > own( $25. a bike)and pay a $5. a year tag for each as well.
                > > I'll repeat my opening line..
                > > This, folks IS NEW YORK.
                > > Rich mc.
                > >
                > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>, "Putnam A. Merriam"
                > > <putnammerriam@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi all,
                > > > What does this mean, "Motorized Bicycle"?... Motorized would be an
                > > 'Electricly Powered' bike...thus, a fuel powered bike would be an
                > > 'Engine Powered' bicycle.
                > > > Why would, in this day of our badly needed "Green Movement", would
                > > anybody object to something that reduces the demand on our planet?
                > > > If they're concerned about safety...just let them take a look at the
                > > "Humanly Powered" bicycles of the messengers IN New York City! Those
                > > riders go far faster than any electric or gas powered bike I've ever
                > > tried....just makes me shake my head...........
                > > >
                > > > Putnam
                > > > Knights Landing, CA.
                > > > (Pop. 890)
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • will@x-net.net
                This proposal has absolutely NO merit othr than generate money for a state which squandered what it had paying off unions/and medicaid tax breaks for the
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 2, 2011
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                  "This proposal has absolutely NO merit othr than generate money for a state which squandered what it had paying off unions/and medicaid tax breaks for the non-working rich and corporate freebies to keep it's politicians getting re-elected."
                  Fixed that for ya. ;-)

                  On 3/2/2011 3:01 PM, Rich wrote:
                  I've owned my Paramount for 15 years.
                  The bike has never been stolen.
                  Leave a bike somewhere long enough and it'll disappear p[lates or no plates.
                  Anyone who thinks paltes on a bike will get the bike back or keep it from getting stolen in the first place...shouldn't be riding a bike.
                  (get a different hobby)
                  This proposal has absolutely NO merit othr than generate money for a state which squandered what it had paying off unions/and medicaid to keep it's politicians getting re-elected.
                  Rich Mc.
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, Paul Schmidt <paul.schmidt@...> wrote:
                  
                  Plating bikes serves two possible purposes, one is a tax grab, the other 
                  is to reduce theft, and reducing theft only works if you could actually 
                  absolutely identify all bicycles. I can't see that working well, 
                  especially for older bicycles, look at the number of threads on 
                  BikeForums C&V that start: I have this frame, and I have no idea what it 
                  is, because someone scraped off the decals and dremelled off the stops 
                  and hangers then painted it black and the only number on it looks like 
                  it could be B,E,F,H,I or T then C,O,Q or 0 then a number that looks like 
                  23 and there could be 2 or 3 numbers and maybe another letter. 99% of 
                  the time, it's simply a tax grab.
                  
                  Protests usually come from 3 sources, one is residents who have 
                  bicycles, sometimes several who will be majorly hit by the new tax, 
                  second is environmental groups who will see people deciding that the 
                  extra tax is too big an extra burden and just continue driving, third 
                  tourism boards, who see people who would bring and use bikes into the 
                  states, avoiding that state because of the extra tax.
                  
                  It's been done before and usually the cost to run the program costs more 
                  then the fees generated, so they quit after a while.
                  
                  
                  On 11-03-01 11:37 AM, Rich wrote:
                  
                  New York..aka fools paradise has a flatbush legilator who just 
                  presented a bill to require cyclists to regiseter each bicycle they 
                  own( $25. a bike)and pay a $5. a year tag for each as well.
                  I'll repeat my opening line..
                  This, folks IS NEW YORK.
                  Rich mc.
                  
                  --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com 
                  <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>, "Putnam A. Merriam" 
                  <putnammerriam@> wrote:
                  
                  Hi all,
                  What does this mean, "Motorized Bicycle"?... Motorized would be an 
                  
                  'Electricly Powered' bike...thus, a fuel powered bike would be an 
                  'Engine Powered' bicycle.
                  
                  Why would, in this day of our badly needed "Green Movement", would 
                  
                  anybody object to something that reduces the demand on our planet?
                  
                  If they're concerned about safety...just let them take a look at the 
                  
                  "Humanly Powered" bicycles of the messengers IN New York City!  Those 
                  riders go far faster than any electric or gas powered bike I've ever 
                  tried....just makes me shake my head...........
                  
                                              Putnam
                                  Knights Landing, CA.
                                           (Pop. 890)
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
                  
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                • Steve Birmingham
                  Now now guys..Where I come from the government is crooked enough for you both to be right! To quote a famous tv personality - get back to building bikes (ok,
                  Message 8 of 18 , Mar 2, 2011
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                    Now now guys….Where I come from the government is crooked enough for you both to be right!

                     

                    To quote a famous tv personality – “get back to building bikes” (ok, wrong sort of bikes, but that one’s a favorite around the shop)

                     

                    Steve B

                     

                    From: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of will@...
                    Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 04:11 PM
                    To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Green... what?

                     

                     

                    "This proposal has absolutely NO merit othr than generate money for a state which squandered what it had paying off unions/and medicaid tax breaks for the non-working rich and corporate freebies to keep it's politicians getting re-elected."

                    Fixed that for ya. ;-)

                    On 3/2/2011 3:01 PM, Rich wrote:

                    I've owned my Paramount for 15 years.
                    The bike has never been stolen.
                    Leave a bike somewhere long enough and it'll disappear p[lates or no plates.
                    Anyone who thinks paltes on a bike will get the bike back or keep it from getting stolen in the first place...shouldn't be riding a bike.
                    (get a different hobby)
                    This proposal has absolutely NO merit othr than generate money for a state which squandered what it had paying off unions/and medicaid to keep it's politicians getting re-elected.
                    Rich Mc.
                      
                      
                      
                      
                    --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, Paul Schmidt <paul.schmidt@...> wrote:
                      
                    Plating bikes serves two possible purposes, one is a tax grab, the other 
                    is to reduce theft, and reducing theft only works if you could actually 
                    absolutely identify all bicycles. I can't see that working well, 
                    especially for older bicycles, look at the number of threads on 
                    BikeForums C&V that start: I have this frame, and I have no idea what it 
                    is, because someone scraped off the decals and dremelled off the stops 
                    and hangers then painted it black and the only number on it looks like 
                    it could be B,E,F,H,I or T then C,O,Q or 0 then a number that looks like 
                    23 and there could be 2 or 3 numbers and maybe another letter. 99% of 
                    the time, it's simply a tax grab.
                      
                    Protests usually come from 3 sources, one is residents who have 
                    bicycles, sometimes several who will be majorly hit by the new tax, 
                    second is environmental groups who will see people deciding that the 
                    extra tax is too big an extra burden and just continue driving, third 
                    tourism boards, who see people who would bring and use bikes into the 
                    states, avoiding that state because of the extra tax.
                      
                    It's been done before and usually the cost to run the program costs more 
                    then the fees generated, so they quit after a while.
                      
                      
                    On 11-03-01 11:37 AM, Rich wrote:
                      
                    New York..aka fools paradise has a flatbush legilator who just 
                    presented a bill to require cyclists to regiseter each bicycle they 
                    own( $25. a bike)and pay a $5. a year tag for each as well.
                    I'll repeat my opening line..
                    This, folks IS NEW YORK.
                    Rich mc.
                      
                    --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com 
                    <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>, "Putnam A. Merriam" 
                    <putnammerriam@> wrote:
                      
                    Hi all,
                    What does this mean, "Motorized Bicycle"?... Motorized would be an 
                    'Electricly Powered' bike...thus, a fuel powered bike would be an 
                    'Engine Powered' bicycle.
                    Why would, in this day of our badly needed "Green Movement", would 
                    anybody object to something that reduces the demand on our planet?
                    If they're concerned about safety...just let them take a look at the 
                    "Humanly Powered" bicycles of the messengers IN New York City!  Those 
                    riders go far faster than any electric or gas powered bike I've ever 
                    tried....just makes me shake my head...........
                      
                                                Putnam
                                    Knights Landing, CA.
                                             (Pop. 890)
                      
                      
                      
                      
                      
                      
                      
                      
                    ------------------------------------
                      
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                    <*> Your email settings:
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                    <*> To change settings online go to:
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bicycle_Restoration/join
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                        Bicycle_Restoration-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                      
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                  • Paul Schmidt
                    Anyone who thinks plates will keep something from getting stolen, should ring up their local constabulary and ask when the last car was reported stolen, I
                    Message 9 of 18 , Mar 2, 2011
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                      Anyone who thinks plates will keep something from getting stolen, should ring up their local constabulary and ask when the last car was reported stolen, I doubt there are many places in New York State where it's been more then 48 hours, and cars have plates and well managed serial numbers called VINs.  Yeah, it's a tax grab, more then that, it's a fools tax grab.  Here is the thing, say you have 2,000,000 bicycles in the state, say half of those will not be registered for legitimate reasons, like it hasn't been ridden in the last 5 years, or isn't ridden on public streets, or it's a kiddie bike.  Given a 100% compliance, you would raise about $25,000,000 the first year, except you will not get 100% compliance, probably closer to 65% - 75% so maybe the income is $16 -$19 million, do you honestly think that a government can set up a bicycle version of the DMV for only $19 million, ha! probably closer to $40 - $50 million.  Now figure that maybe 50% will renew the registration, so your raising $2,500,000 a year,  there is no honest way you could run this as a state wide program for $2,500,000. 

                      This is why nearly every bicycle licence scheme is abandoned after a year or two, because it costs to much for the revenue it generates, making it a fools tax grab, because it doesn't net any revenue.



                      On 11-03-02 04:01 PM, Rich wrote:
                       

                      I've owned my Paramount for 15 years.
                      The bike has never been stolen.
                      Leave a bike somewhere long enough and it'll disappear p[lates or no plates.
                      Anyone who thinks paltes on a bike will get the bike back or keep it from getting stolen in the first place...shouldn't be riding a bike.
                      (get a different hobby)
                      This proposal has absolutely NO merit othr than generate money for a state which squandered what it had paying off unions/and medicaid to keep it's politicians getting re-elected.
                      Rich Mc.

                      --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, Paul Schmidt <paul.schmidt@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Plating bikes serves two possible purposes, one is a tax grab, the other
                      > is to reduce theft, and reducing theft only works if you could actually
                      > absolutely identify all bicycles. I can't see that working well,
                      > especially for older bicycles, look at the number of threads on
                      > BikeForums C&V that start: I have this frame, and I have no idea what it
                      > is, because someone scraped off the decals and dremelled off the stops
                      > and hangers then painted it black and the only number on it looks like
                      > it could be B,E,F,H,I or T then C,O,Q or 0 then a number that looks like
                      > 23 and there could be 2 or 3 numbers and maybe another letter. 99% of
                      > the time, it's simply a tax grab.
                      >
                      > Protests usually come from 3 sources, one is residents who have
                      > bicycles, sometimes several who will be majorly hit by the new tax,
                      > second is environmental groups who will see people deciding that the
                      > extra tax is too big an extra burden and just continue driving, third
                      > tourism boards, who see people who would bring and use bikes into the
                      > states, avoiding that state because of the extra tax.
                      >
                      > It's been done before and usually the cost to run the program costs more
                      > then the fees generated, so they quit after a while.
                      >
                      >
                      > On 11-03-01 11:37 AM, Rich wrote:
                      > >
                      > > New York..aka fools paradise has a flatbush legilator who just
                      > > presented a bill to require cyclists to regiseter each bicycle they
                      > > own( $25. a bike)and pay a $5. a year tag for each as well.
                      > > I'll repeat my opening line..
                      > > This, folks IS NEW YORK.
                      > > Rich mc.
                      > >
                      > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                      > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>, "Putnam A. Merriam"
                      > > <putnammerriam@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hi all,
                      > > > What does this mean, "Motorized Bicycle"?... Motorized would be an
                      > > 'Electricly Powered' bike...thus, a fuel powered bike would be an
                      > > 'Engine Powered' bicycle.
                      > > > Why would, in this day of our badly needed "Green Movement", would
                      > > anybody object to something that reduces the demand on our planet?
                      > > > If they're concerned about safety...just let them take a look at the
                      > > "Humanly Powered" bicycles of the messengers IN New York City! Those
                      > > riders go far faster than any electric or gas powered bike I've ever
                      > > tried....just makes me shake my head...........
                      > > >
                      > > > Putnam
                      > > > Knights Landing, CA.
                      > > > (Pop. 890)
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >


                    • Rich
                      FOLKS IT S OVER THE TAX PROPOSAL HAS BEEB DROPPED,SCRAPPED,PUT TO BED. THe Legislators site was so overhwelmed with e-mails and phone calls etc. it crashed.
                      Message 10 of 18 , Mar 6, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        FOLKS>>>IT'S OVER>
                        THE TAX PROPOSAL HAS BEEB DROPPED,SCRAPPED,PUT TO BED.
                        THe Legislators site was so overhwelmed with e-mails and phone calls etc. it crashed.
                        Guess he (and other legislators who saw the light)decided to scrap the idea and keep his job come next election.
                        SO>>WE CAN ALL GO BACK TO SHARING THOSE GREAT IDEAS AND SECRETS ABOUT RESTORING BIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                        8oD!!
                        Rich mc.

                        --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, Paul Schmidt <paul.schmidt@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Anyone who thinks plates will keep something from getting stolen, should
                        > ring up their local constabulary and ask when the last car was reported
                        > stolen, I doubt there are many places in New York State where it's been
                        > more then 48 hours, and cars have plates and well managed serial numbers
                        > called VINs. Yeah, it's a tax grab, more then that, it's a fools tax
                        > grab. Here is the thing, say you have 2,000,000 bicycles in the state,
                        > say half of those will not be registered for legitimate reasons, like it
                        > hasn't been ridden in the last 5 years, or isn't ridden on public
                        > streets, or it's a kiddie bike. Given a 100% compliance, you would
                        > raise about $25,000,000 the first year, except you will not get 100%
                        > compliance, probably closer to 65% - 75% so maybe the income is $16 -$19
                        > million, do you honestly think that a government can set up a bicycle
                        > version of the DMV for only $19 million, ha! probably closer to $40 -
                        > $50 million. Now figure that maybe 50% will renew the registration, so
                        > your raising $2,500,000 a year, there is no honest way you could run
                        > this as a state wide program for $2,500,000.
                        >
                        > This is why nearly every bicycle licence scheme is abandoned after a
                        > year or two, because it costs to much for the revenue it generates,
                        > making it a fools tax grab, because it doesn't net any revenue.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On 11-03-02 04:01 PM, Rich wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I've owned my Paramount for 15 years.
                        > > The bike has never been stolen.
                        > > Leave a bike somewhere long enough and it'll disappear p[lates or no
                        > > plates.
                        > > Anyone who thinks paltes on a bike will get the bike back or keep it
                        > > from getting stolen in the first place...shouldn't be riding a bike.
                        > > (get a different hobby)
                        > > This proposal has absolutely NO merit othr than generate money for a
                        > > state which squandered what it had paying off unions/and medicaid to
                        > > keep it's politicians getting re-elected.
                        > > Rich Mc.
                        > >
                        > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                        > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>, Paul Schmidt
                        > > <paul.schmidt@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Plating bikes serves two possible purposes, one is a tax grab, the
                        > > other
                        > > > is to reduce theft, and reducing theft only works if you could actually
                        > > > absolutely identify all bicycles. I can't see that working well,
                        > > > especially for older bicycles, look at the number of threads on
                        > > > BikeForums C&V that start: I have this frame, and I have no idea
                        > > what it
                        > > > is, because someone scraped off the decals and dremelled off the stops
                        > > > and hangers then painted it black and the only number on it looks like
                        > > > it could be B,E,F,H,I or T then C,O,Q or 0 then a number that looks
                        > > like
                        > > > 23 and there could be 2 or 3 numbers and maybe another letter. 99% of
                        > > > the time, it's simply a tax grab.
                        > > >
                        > > > Protests usually come from 3 sources, one is residents who have
                        > > > bicycles, sometimes several who will be majorly hit by the new tax,
                        > > > second is environmental groups who will see people deciding that the
                        > > > extra tax is too big an extra burden and just continue driving, third
                        > > > tourism boards, who see people who would bring and use bikes into the
                        > > > states, avoiding that state because of the extra tax.
                        > > >
                        > > > It's been done before and usually the cost to run the program costs
                        > > more
                        > > > then the fees generated, so they quit after a while.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > On 11-03-01 11:37 AM, Rich wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > New York..aka fools paradise has a flatbush legilator who just
                        > > > > presented a bill to require cyclists to regiseter each bicycle they
                        > > > > own( $25. a bike)and pay a $5. a year tag for each as well.
                        > > > > I'll repeat my opening line..
                        > > > > This, folks IS NEW YORK.
                        > > > > Rich mc.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                        > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>, "Putnam A. Merriam"
                        > > > > <putnammerriam@> wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Hi all,
                        > > > > > What does this mean, "Motorized Bicycle"?... Motorized would be an
                        > > > > 'Electricly Powered' bike...thus, a fuel powered bike would be an
                        > > > > 'Engine Powered' bicycle.
                        > > > > > Why would, in this day of our badly needed "Green Movement", would
                        > > > > anybody object to something that reduces the demand on our planet?
                        > > > > > If they're concerned about safety...just let them take a look at
                        > > the
                        > > > > "Humanly Powered" bicycles of the messengers IN New York City! Those
                        > > > > riders go far faster than any electric or gas powered bike I've ever
                        > > > > tried....just makes me shake my head...........
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Putnam
                        > > > > > Knights Landing, CA.
                        > > > > > (Pop. 890)
                        > > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Khalid Mateen
                        I am glad.  They are trying to do it here in NJ but nobody is supporting it.  The woman who tried to set up a registration with license plates for people who
                        Message 11 of 18 , Mar 6, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I am glad.  They are trying to do it here in NJ but nobody is supporting it.  The woman who tried to set up a registration with license plates for people who ride bikes.  In addition, you pay $10 dollars a year to renew your bicycle license.  The senator who wanted to do this because she said she gets complaints from old women being runned over by bicyclers.   This will only discourage people to want to bicycle due to the fact you have to be registered by the DMV to ride a bike.  Ridiculous and sometimes I wonder how people like this actual run things or why people vote them in.
                           
                          K.


                          From: Rich <mcyak@...>
                          To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 12:26:26 PM
                          Subject: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Green... what?

                           

                          FOLKS>>>IT'S OVER>
                          THE TAX PROPOSAL HAS BEEB DROPPED,SCRAPPED,PUT TO BED.
                          THe Legislators site was so overhwelmed with e-mails and phone calls etc. it crashed.
                          Guess he (and other legislators who saw the light)decided to scrap the idea and keep his job come next election.
                          SO>>WE CAN ALL GO BACK TO SHARING THOSE GREAT IDEAS AND SECRETS ABOUT RESTORING BIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                          8oD!!
                          Rich mc.

                          --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, Paul Schmidt <paul.schmidt@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Anyone who thinks plates will keep something from getting stolen, should
                          > ring up their local constabulary and ask when the last car was reported
                          > stolen, I doubt there are many places in New York State where it's been
                          > more then 48 hours, and cars have plates and well managed serial numbers
                          > called VINs. Yeah, it's a tax grab, more then that, it's a fools tax
                          > grab. Here is the thing, say you have 2,000,000 bicycles in the state,
                          > say half of those will not be registered for legitimate reasons, like it
                          > hasn't been ridden in the last 5 years, or isn't ridden on public
                          > streets, or it's a kiddie bike. Given a 100% compliance, you would
                          > raise about $25,000,000 the first year, except you will not get 100%
                          > compliance, probably closer to 65% - 75% so maybe the income is $16 -$19
                          > million, do you honestly think that a government can set up a bicycle
                          > version of the DMV for only $19 million, ha! probably closer to $40 -
                          > $50 million. Now figure that maybe 50% will renew the registration, so
                          > your raising $2,500,000 a year, there is no honest way you could run
                          > this as a state wide program for $2,500,000.
                          >
                          > This is why nearly every bicycle licence scheme is abandoned after a
                          > year or two, because it costs to much for the revenue it generates,
                          > making it a fools tax grab, because it doesn't net any revenue.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > On 11-03-02 04:01 PM, Rich wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I've owned my Paramount for 15 years.
                          > > The bike has never been stolen.
                          > > Leave a bike somewhere long enough and it'll disappear p[lates or no
                          > > plates.
                          > > Anyone who thinks paltes on a bike will get the bike back or keep it
                          > > from getting stolen in the first place...shouldn't be riding a bike.
                          > > (get a different hobby)
                          > > This proposal has absolutely NO merit othr than generate money for a
                          > > state which squandered what it had paying off unions/and medicaid to
                          > > keep it's politicians getting re-elected.
                          > > Rich Mc.
                          > >
                          > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                          > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>, Paul Schmidt
                          > > <paul.schmidt@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Plating bikes serves two possible purposes, one is a tax grab, the
                          > > other
                          > > > is to reduce theft, and reducing theft only works if you could actually
                          > > > absolutely identify all bicycles. I can't see that working well,
                          > > > especially for older bicycles, look at the number of threads on
                          > > > BikeForums C&V that start: I have this frame, and I have no idea
                          > > what it
                          > > > is, because someone scraped off the decals and dremelled off the stops
                          > > > and hangers then painted it black and the only number on it looks like
                          > > > it could be B,E,F,H,I or T then C,O,Q or 0 then a number that looks
                          > > like
                          > > > 23 and there could be 2 or 3 numbers and maybe another letter. 99% of
                          > > > the time, it's simply a tax grab.
                          > > >
                          > > > Protests usually come from 3 sources, one is residents who have
                          > > > bicycles, sometimes several who will be majorly hit by the new tax,
                          > > > second is environmental groups who will see people deciding that the
                          > > > extra tax is too big an extra burden and just continue driving, third
                          > > > tourism boards, who see people who would bring and use bikes into the
                          > > > states, avoiding that state because of the extra tax.
                          > > >
                          > > > It's been done before and usually the cost to run the program costs
                          > > more
                          > > > then the fees generated, so they quit after a while.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > On 11-03-01 11:37 AM, Rich wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > New York..aka fools paradise has a flatbush legilator who just
                          > > > > presented a bill to require cyclists to regiseter each bicycle they
                          > > > > own( $25. a bike)and pay a $5. a year tag for each as well.
                          > > > > I'll repeat my opening line..
                          > > > > This, folks IS NEW YORK.
                          > > > > Rich mc.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                          > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>
                          > > > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>, "Putnam A. Merriam"
                          > > > > <putnammerriam@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Hi all,
                          > > > > > What does this mean, "Motorized Bicycle"?... Motorized would be an
                          > > > > 'Electricly Powered' bike...thus, a fuel powered bike would be an
                          > > > > 'Engine Powered' bicycle.
                          > > > > > Why would, in this day of our badly needed "Green Movement", would
                          > > > > anybody object to something that reduces the demand on our planet?
                          > > > > > If they're concerned about safety...just let them take a look at
                          > > the
                          > > > > "Humanly Powered" bicycles of the messengers IN New York City! Those
                          > > > > riders go far faster than any electric or gas powered bike I've ever
                          > > > > tried....just makes me shake my head...........
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Putnam
                          > > > > > Knights Landing, CA.
                          > > > > > (Pop. 890)
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >


                        • Khalid Mateen
                          Check this out. http://blog.nj.com/nj_off-road_biking/2011/01/proposed_mandatory_bicycle_registration_in_nj_-_follow_up.html THe bill has been killed,
                          Message 12 of 18 , Mar 6, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Check this out.
                             
                            THe bill has been killed, fortunately.
                             
                            TRENTON — Well, that was fast.

                            One week to the day after the introduction of a bill proposing bicycles to be registered with the state Motor Vehicle Commission, its primary sponsor has withdrawn it.

                            Assemblywoman Cleopatra Tucker (D-Essex), who sponsored the killed bill, A-3657, has reconsidered her proposal.

                            In a statement from the Assemblywoman quoted in the Star-Ledger, Tucker wrote “My intention was never to impose a burden or additional costs.”

                            First-time registration would expire after two years. The bill states a fee of up to $10, annually, would be in place after that period.

                            Parents or guardians would perform these duties for riders under the age of 15. Fines of up to $100 could have followed for those who did not register.

                            “My goal was to at least begin a discussion of how best to protect elderly pedestrians. No idea is perfect, but protecting elderly pedestrians deserves attention,” said Tucker

                            She added that elderly pedestrians had contacted her office in Newark, stating they had been knocked from their feet by bike riders. There was no method in place for these victims to a file a complaint however.

                            License plates, to be provided by the state, would need to be attached when riding on any public land or road in the state.

                            If the bill had been passed, the victim could identify the bike’s physical traits and license plate which, in theory, could be used to locate the owner.

                            “I would encourage everyone to give thought to how best we can protect elderly pedestrians and suggest solutions,” the statement read.

                            Linwood-based attorney and bicycle enthusiast Jeff Sutherland said the entire concept of registration is flawed. If the purpose is not to deter theft, “its a losing proposition.”

                            Sutherland, who lives in Ocean City and owns a dozen bicycles himself, said theft is common there. The Ocean City Police Department offers bike registration for free.

                            People who come to visit his Ocean City home often take trips on one of his 12 bikes.

                            The bill stated registration would “not apply to a nonresident bicycle owner who has complied with the registration and licensing laws of his state of residence.”

                            Out-of-state plates would also be permitted by law enforcement tasked with ensuring the proper paperwork.

                            “My hobby is building custom bikes,” he said, adding trips to swap meets for various parts was part of the process.

                            “The fun of it is putting together a bike with parts that don’t even belong together. How are they going to register that?” he said.

                            Response to Thursday’s News story about the bill matched most of what was being said state-wide; this was a bad idea.

                            “If it was free, it could have been a good idea. But its not,” said James Caldwell.

                            Caldwell, from Randy’s General Store here on Commerce Street, added the ordinance would have been a “headache” for many of the parties involved.

                            Citing the economy, Caldwell said a family with five bicyclists would be out $50 after registration fees.

                            “That’s a week’s worth of groceries to some families,” he said.

                            Caldwell owns five bikes himself and recently had one stolen off of his porch. It was recovered by law enforcement before he even knew it was gone.

                            Overall, he isn’t opposed to the registration so long it is used to deter theft.

                            “You would have police officers after all these kids without registered bikes when they could have been doing something more important,” he said.



                            From: Khalid Mateen <chalid2007@...>
                            To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 1:36:48 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Green... what?

                             

                            I am glad.  They are trying to do it here in NJ but nobody is supporting it.  The woman who tried to set up a registration with license plates for people who ride bikes.  In addition, you pay $10 dollars a year to renew your bicycle license.  The senator who wanted to do this because she said she gets complaints from old women being runned over by bicyclers.   This will only discourage people to want to bicycle due to the fact you have to be registered by the DMV to ride a bike.  Ridiculous and sometimes I wonder how people like this actual run things or why people vote them in.
                             
                            K.


                            From: Rich <mcyak@...>
                            To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 12:26:26 PM
                            Subject: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Green... what?

                             

                            FOLKS>>>IT'S OVER>
                            THE TAX PROPOSAL HAS BEEB DROPPED,SCRAPPED,PUT TO BED.
                            THe Legislators site was so overhwelmed with e-mails and phone calls etc. it crashed.
                            Guess he (and other legislators who saw the light)decided to scrap the idea and keep his job come next election.
                            SO>>WE CAN ALL GO BACK TO SHARING THOSE GREAT IDEAS AND SECRETS ABOUT RESTORING BIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                            8oD!!
                            Rich mc.

                            --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, Paul Schmidt <paul.schmidt@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Anyone who thinks plates will keep something from getting stolen, should
                            > ring up their local constabulary and ask when the last car was reported
                            > stolen, I doubt there are many places in New York State where it's been
                            > more then 48 hours, and cars have plates and well managed serial numbers
                            > called VINs. Yeah, it's a tax grab, more then that, it's a fools tax
                            > grab. Here is the thing, say you have 2,000,000 bicycles in the state,
                            > say half of those will not be registered for legitimate reasons, like it
                            > hasn't been ridden in the last 5 years, or isn't ridden on public
                            > streets, or it's a kiddie bike. Given a 100% compliance, you would
                            > raise about $25,000,000 the first year, except you will not get 100%
                            > compliance, probably closer to 65% - 75% so maybe the income is $16 -$19
                            > million, do you honestly think that a government can set up a bicycle
                            > version of the DMV for only $19 million, ha! probably closer to $40 -
                            > $50 million. Now figure that maybe 50% will renew the registration, so
                            > your raising $2,500,000 a year, there is no honest way you could run
                            > this as a state wide program for $2,500,000.
                            >
                            > This is why nearly every bicycle licence scheme is abandoned after a
                            > year or two, because it costs to much for the revenue it generates,
                            > making it a fools tax grab, because it doesn't net any revenue.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > On 11-03-02 04:01 PM, Rich wrote:
                            > >
                            > > I've owned my Paramount for 15 years.
                            > > The bike has never been stolen.
                            > > Leave a bike somewhere long enough and it'll disappear p[lates or no
                            > > plates.
                            > > Anyone who thinks paltes on a bike will get the bike back or keep it
                            > > from getting stolen in the first place...shouldn't be riding a bike.
                            > > (get a different hobby)
                            > > This proposal has absolutely NO merit othr than generate money for a
                            > > state which squandered what it had paying off unions/and medicaid to
                            > > keep it's politicians getting re-elected.
                            > > Rich Mc.
                            > >
                            > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                            > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>, Paul Schmidt
                            > > <paul.schmidt@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Plating bikes serves two possible purposes, one is a tax grab, the
                            > > other
                            > > > is to reduce theft, and reducing theft only works if you could actually
                            > > > absolutely identify all bicycles. I can't see that working well,
                            > > > especially for older bicycles, look at the number of threads on
                            > > > BikeForums C&V that start: I have this frame, and I have no idea
                            > > what it
                            > > > is, because someone scraped off the decals and dremelled off the stops
                            > > > and hangers then painted it black and the only number on it looks like
                            > > > it could be B,E,F,H,I or T then C,O,Q or 0 then a number that looks
                            > > like
                            > > > 23 and there could be 2 or 3 numbers and maybe another letter. 99% of
                            > > > the time, it's simply a tax grab.
                            > > >
                            > > > Protests usually come from 3 sources, one is residents who have
                            > > > bicycles, sometimes several who will be majorly hit by the new tax,
                            > > > second is environmental groups who will see people deciding that the
                            > > > extra tax is too big an extra burden and just continue driving, third
                            > > > tourism boards, who see people who would bring and use bikes into the
                            > > > states, avoiding that state because of the extra tax.
                            > > >
                            > > > It's been done before and usually the cost to run the program costs
                            > > more
                            > > > then the fees generated, so they quit after a while.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > On 11-03-01 11:37 AM, Rich wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > New York..aka fools paradise has a flatbush legilator who just
                            > > > > presented a bill to require cyclists to regiseter each bicycle they
                            > > > > own( $25. a bike)and pay a $5. a year tag for each as well.
                            > > > > I'll repeat my opening line..
                            > > > > This, folks IS NEW YORK.
                            > > > > Rich mc.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                            > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>, "Putnam A. Merriam"
                            > > > > <putnammerriam@> wrote:
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Hi all,
                            > > > > > What does this mean, "Motorized Bicycle"?... Motorized would be an
                            > > > > 'Electricly Powered' bike...thus, a fuel powered bike would be an
                            > > > > 'Engine Powered' bicycle.
                            > > > > > Why would, in this day of our badly needed "Green Movement", would
                            > > > > anybody object to something that reduces the demand on our planet?
                            > > > > > If they're concerned about safety...just let them take a look at
                            > > the
                            > > > > "Humanly Powered" bicycles of the messengers IN New York City! Those
                            > > > > riders go far faster than any electric or gas powered bike I've ever
                            > > > > tried....just makes me shake my head...........
                            > > > > >
                            > > > > > Putnam
                            > > > > > Knights Landing, CA.
                            > > > > > (Pop. 890)
                            > > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >



                          • will@x-net.net
                            It s the type of idea crafted by someone who hasn t even the slightest clue as to what even casual bicycle ownership entails. Further, this is good example
                            Message 13 of 18 , Mar 6, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              It's the type of "idea" crafted by someone who hasn't even the slightest clue as to what even casual bicycle ownership entails.

                              Further, this is good example of how policy should not be crafted.  Certainly the elderly should not be run over by bicycles.  I don't know anyone advocating for that.  But is it really a problem?  I mean, how many elderly are we talking about here?  What injuries have been involved?  Where at the statistics the empirical evidence that this is actually problem.  And, is a bicycle plate really the best solution?

                              I can't see how the answers to any of these questions lead to the solution proposed.  It just seems asinine and arbitrary - in other words the worst type of law making.

                              I don't know anything about "Assemblywoman Cleopatra Tucker" but if this any indication of how she conducts her job, I hope she is challenged soon by a pro-cycling candidate.

                              On 3/6/2011 12:42 PM, Khalid Mateen wrote:
                              Check this out.
                               
                              THe bill has been killed, fortunately.
                               
                              TRENTON — Well, that was fast.

                              One week to the day after the introduction of a bill proposing bicycles to be registered with the state Motor Vehicle Commission, its primary sponsor has withdrawn it.

                              Assemblywoman Cleopatra Tucker (D-Essex), who sponsored the killed bill, A-3657, has reconsidered her proposal.

                              In a statement from the Assemblywoman quoted in the Star-Ledger, Tucker wrote “My intention was never to impose a burden or additional costs.”

                              First-time registration would expire after two years. The bill states a fee of up to $10, annually, would be in place after that period.

                              Parents or guardians would perform these duties for riders under the age of 15. Fines of up to $100 could have followed for those who did not register.

                              “My goal was to at least begin a discussion of how best to protect elderly pedestrians. No idea is perfect, but protecting elderly pedestrians deserves attention,” said Tucker

                              She added that elderly pedestrians had contacted her office in Newark, stating they had been knocked from their feet by bike riders. There was no method in place for these victims to a file a complaint however.

                              License plates, to be provided by the state, would need to be attached when riding on any public land or road in the state.

                              If the bill had been passed, the victim could identify the bike’s physical traits and license plate which, in theory, could be used to locate the owner.

                              “I would encourage everyone to give thought to how best we can protect elderly pedestrians and suggest solutions,” the statement read.

                              Linwood-based attorney and bicycle enthusiast Jeff Sutherland said the entire concept of registration is flawed. If the purpose is not to deter theft, “its a losing proposition.”

                              Sutherland, who lives in Ocean City and owns a dozen bicycles himself, said theft is common there. The Ocean City Police Department offers bike registration for free.

                              People who come to visit his Ocean City home often take trips on one of his 12 bikes.

                              The bill stated registration would “not apply to a nonresident bicycle owner who has complied with the registration and licensing laws of his state of residence.”

                              Out-of-state plates would also be permitted by law enforcement tasked with ensuring the proper paperwork.

                              “My hobby is building custom bikes,” he said, adding trips to swap meets for various parts was part of the process.

                              “The fun of it is putting together a bike with parts that don’t even belong together. How are they going to register that?” he said.

                              Response to Thursday’s News story about the bill matched most of what was being said state-wide; this was a bad idea.

                              “If it was free, it could have been a good idea. But its not,” said James Caldwell.

                              Caldwell, from Randy’s General Store here on Commerce Street, added the ordinance would have been a “headache” for many of the parties involved.

                              Citing the economy, Caldwell said a family with five bicyclists would be out $50 after registration fees.

                              “That’s a week’s worth of groceries to some families,” he said.

                              Caldwell owns five bikes himself and recently had one stolen off of his porch. It was recovered by law enforcement before he even knew it was gone.

                              Overall, he isn’t opposed to the registration so long it is used to deter theft.

                              “You would have police officers after all these kids without registered bikes when they could have been doing something more important,” he said.



                              From: Khalid Mateen <chalid2007@...>
                              To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 1:36:48 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Green... what?

                               

                              I am glad.  They are trying to do it here in NJ but nobody is supporting it.  The woman who tried to set up a registration with license plates for people who ride bikes.  In addition, you pay $10 dollars a year to renew your bicycle license.  The senator who wanted to do this because she said she gets complaints from old women being runned over by bicyclers.   This will only discourage people to want to bicycle due to the fact you have to be registered by the DMV to ride a bike.  Ridiculous and sometimes I wonder how people like this actual run things or why people vote them in.
                               
                              K.


                              From: Rich <mcyak@...>
                              To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 12:26:26 PM
                              Subject: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Green... what?

                               

                              FOLKS>>>IT'S OVER>
                              THE TAX PROPOSAL HAS BEEB DROPPED,SCRAPPED,PUT TO BED.
                              THe Legislators site was so overhwelmed with e-mails and phone calls etc. it crashed.
                              Guess he (and other legislators who saw the light)decided to scrap the idea and keep his job come next election.
                              SO>>WE CAN ALL GO BACK TO SHARING THOSE GREAT IDEAS AND SECRETS ABOUT RESTORING BIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                              8oD!!
                              Rich mc.

                              --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, Paul Schmidt <paul.schmidt@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Anyone who thinks plates will keep something from getting stolen, should
                              > ring up their local constabulary and ask when the last car was reported
                              > stolen, I doubt there are many places in New York State where it's been
                              > more then 48 hours, and cars have plates and well managed serial numbers
                              > called VINs. Yeah, it's a tax grab, more then that, it's a fools tax
                              > grab. Here is the thing, say you have 2,000,000 bicycles in the state,
                              > say half of those will not be registered for legitimate reasons, like it
                              > hasn't been ridden in the last 5 years, or isn't ridden on public
                              > streets, or it's a kiddie bike. Given a 100% compliance, you would
                              > raise about $25,000,000 the first year, except you will not get 100%
                              > compliance, probably closer to 65% - 75% so maybe the income is $16 -$19
                              > million, do you honestly think that a government can set up a bicycle
                              > version of the DMV for only $19 million, ha! probably closer to $40 -
                              > $50 million. Now figure that maybe 50% will renew the registration, so
                              > your raising $2,500,000 a year, there is no honest way you could run
                              > this as a state wide program for $2,500,000.
                              >
                              > This is why nearly every bicycle licence scheme is abandoned after a
                              > year or two, because it costs to much for the revenue it generates,
                              > making it a fools tax grab, because it doesn't net any revenue.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > On 11-03-02 04:01 PM, Rich wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I've owned my Paramount for 15 years.
                              > > The bike has never been stolen.
                              > > Leave a bike somewhere long enough and it'll disappear p[lates or no
                              > > plates.
                              > > Anyone who thinks paltes on a bike will get the bike back or keep it
                              > > from getting stolen in the first place...shouldn't be riding a bike.
                              > > (get a different hobby)
                              > > This proposal has absolutely NO merit othr than generate money for a
                              > > state which squandered what it had paying off unions/and medicaid to
                              > > keep it's politicians getting re-elected.
                              > > Rich Mc.
                              > >
                              > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                              > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>, Paul Schmidt
                              > > <paul.schmidt@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Plating bikes serves two possible purposes, one is a tax grab, the
                              > > other
                              > > > is to reduce theft, and reducing theft only works if you could actually
                              > > > absolutely identify all bicycles. I can't see that working well,
                              > > > especially for older bicycles, look at the number of threads on
                              > > > BikeForums C&V that start: I have this frame, and I have no idea
                              > > what it
                              > > > is, because someone scraped off the decals and dremelled off the stops
                              > > > and hangers then painted it black and the only number on it looks like
                              > > > it could be B,E,F,H,I or T then C,O,Q or 0 then a number that looks
                              > > like
                              > > > 23 and there could be 2 or 3 numbers and maybe another letter. 99% of
                              > > > the time, it's simply a tax grab.
                              > > >
                              > > > Protests usually come from 3 sources, one is residents who have
                              > > > bicycles, sometimes several who will be majorly hit by the new tax,
                              > > > second is environmental groups who will see people deciding that the
                              > > > extra tax is too big an extra burden and just continue driving, third
                              > > > tourism boards, who see people who would bring and use bikes into the
                              > > > states, avoiding that state because of the extra tax.
                              > > >
                              > > > It's been done before and usually the cost to run the program costs
                              > > more
                              > > > then the fees generated, so they quit after a while.
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > > On 11-03-01 11:37 AM, Rich wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > New York..aka fools paradise has a flatbush legilator who just
                              > > > > presented a bill to require cyclists to regiseter each bicycle they
                              > > > > own( $25. a bike)and pay a $5. a year tag for each as well.
                              > > > > I'll repeat my opening line..
                              > > > > This, folks IS NEW YORK.
                              > > > > Rich mc.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                              > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>
                              > > > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>, "Putnam A. Merriam"
                              > > > > <putnammerriam@> wrote:
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Hi all,
                              > > > > > What does this mean, "Motorized Bicycle"?... Motorized would be an
                              > > > > 'Electricly Powered' bike...thus, a fuel powered bike would be an
                              > > > > 'Engine Powered' bicycle.
                              > > > > > Why would, in this day of our badly needed "Green Movement", would
                              > > > > anybody object to something that reduces the demand on our planet?
                              > > > > > If they're concerned about safety...just let them take a look at
                              > > the
                              > > > > "Humanly Powered" bicycles of the messengers IN New York City! Those
                              > > > > riders go far faster than any electric or gas powered bike I've ever
                              > > > > tried....just makes me shake my head...........
                              > > > > >
                              > > > > > Putnam
                              > > > > > Knights Landing, CA.
                              > > > > > (Pop. 890)
                              > > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >




                            • Steve Birmingham
                              How about bringing back “cross at the green not in between” And fines for jaywalking. And get rid of the crosswalks every 20 yards or so. And maybe telling
                              Message 14 of 18 , Mar 6, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment

                                How about bringing back “cross at the green not in between” And fines for jaywalking.

                                And get rid of the crosswalks every 20 yards or so.

                                 

                                And maybe telling the oldsters to look both ways before stepping into traffic.

                                 

                                Not that steep fines for the Lance wannabes who must ride at 25+ and can’t ever use their brakes (or eyes, or ears, or common sense, or even sense of self preservation!) would be a bad thing.

                                 

                                Steve B

                                 

                                From: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of will@...
                                Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 01:57 PM
                                To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Green... what?

                                 

                                 

                                It's the type of "idea" crafted by someone who hasn't even the slightest clue as to what even casual bicycle ownership entails.

                                Further, this is good example of how policy should not be crafted.  Certainly the elderly should not be run over by bicycles.  I don't know anyone advocating for that.  But is it really a problem?  I mean, how many elderly are we talking about here?  What injuries have been involved?  Where at the statistics the empirical evidence that this is actually problem.  And, is a bicycle plate really the best solution?

                                I can't see how the answers to any of these questions lead to the solution proposed.  It just seems asinine and arbitrary - in other words the worst type of law making.

                                I don't know anything about "Assemblywoman Cleopatra Tucker" but if this any indication of how she conducts her job, I hope she is challenged soon by a pro-cycling candidate.

                                On 3/6/2011 12:42 PM, Khalid Mateen wrote:

                                Check this out.

                                 

                                THe bill has been killed, fortunately.

                                 

                                TRENTON — Well, that was fast.

                                One week to the day after the introduction of a bill proposing bicycles to be registered with the state Motor Vehicle Commission, its primary sponsor has withdrawn it.

                                Assemblywoman Cleopatra Tucker (D-Essex), who sponsored the killed bill, A-3657, has reconsidered her proposal.

                                In a statement from the Assemblywoman quoted in the Star-Ledger, Tucker wrote “My intention was never to impose a burden or additional costs.”

                                First-time registration would expire after two years. The bill states a fee of up to $10, annually, would be in place after that period.

                                Parents or guardians would perform these duties for riders under the age of 15. Fines of up to $100 could have followed for those who did not register.

                                “My goal was to at least begin a discussion of how best to protect elderly pedestrians. No idea is perfect, but protecting elderly pedestrians deserves attention,” said Tucker

                                She added that elderly pedestrians had contacted her office in Newark, stating they had been knocked from their feet by bike riders. There was no method in place for these victims to a file a complaint however.

                                License plates, to be provided by the state, would need to be attached when riding on any public land or road in the state.

                                If the bill had been passed, the victim could identify the bike’s physical traits and license plate which, in theory, could be used to locate the owner.

                                “I would encourage everyone to give thought to how best we can protect elderly pedestrians and suggest solutions,” the statement read.

                                Linwood-based attorney and bicycle enthusiast Jeff Sutherland said the entire concept of registration is flawed. If the purpose is not to deter theft, “its a losing proposition.”

                                Sutherland, who lives in Ocean City and owns a dozen bicycles himself, said theft is common there. The Ocean City Police Department offers bike registration for free.

                                People who come to visit his Ocean City home often take trips on one of his 12 bikes.

                                The bill stated registration would “not apply to a nonresident bicycle owner who has complied with the registration and licensing laws of his state of residence.”

                                Out-of-state plates would also be permitted by law enforcement tasked with ensuring the proper paperwork.

                                “My hobby is building custom bikes,” he said, adding trips to swap meets for various parts was part of the process.

                                “The fun of it is putting together a bike with parts that don’t even belong together. How are they going to register that?” he said.

                                Response to Thursday’s News story about the bill matched most of what was being said state-wide; this was a bad idea.

                                “If it was free, it could have been a good idea. But its not,” said James Caldwell.

                                Caldwell, from Randy’s General Store here on Commerce Street, added the ordinance would have been a “headache” for many of the parties involved.

                                Citing the economy, Caldwell said a family with five bicyclists would be out $50 after registration fees.

                                “That’s a week’s worth of groceries to some families,” he said.

                                Caldwell owns five bikes himself and recently had one stolen off of his porch. It was recovered by law enforcement before he even knew it was gone.

                                Overall, he isn’t opposed to the registration so long it is used to deter theft.

                                “You would have police officers after all these kids without registered bikes when they could have been doing something more important,” he said.

                                 

                                 


                                From: Khalid Mateen <chalid2007@...>
                                To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 1:36:48 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Green... what?

                                 

                                I am glad.  They are trying to do it here in NJ but nobody is supporting it.  The woman who tried to set up a registration with license plates for people who ride bikes.  In addition, you pay $10 dollars a year to renew your bicycle license.  The senator who wanted to do this because she said she gets complaints from old women being runned over by bicyclers.   This will only discourage people to want to bicycle due to the fact you have to be registered by the DMV to ride a bike.  Ridiculous and sometimes I wonder how people like this actual run things or why people vote them in.

                                 

                                K.

                                 


                                From: Rich <mcyak@...>
                                To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 12:26:26 PM
                                Subject: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Green... what?

                                 

                                FOLKS>>>IT'S OVER>
                                THE TAX PROPOSAL HAS BEEB DROPPED,SCRAPPED,PUT TO BED.
                                THe Legislators site was so overhwelmed with e-mails and phone calls etc. it crashed.
                                Guess he (and other legislators who saw the light)decided to scrap the idea and keep his job come next election.
                                SO>>WE CAN ALL GO BACK TO SHARING THOSE GREAT IDEAS AND SECRETS ABOUT RESTORING BIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                8oD!!
                                Rich mc.

                                --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, Paul Schmidt <paul.schmidt@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Anyone who thinks plates will keep something from getting stolen, should
                                > ring up their local constabulary and ask when the last car was reported
                                > stolen, I doubt there are many places in New York State where it's been
                                > more then 48 hours, and cars have plates and well managed serial numbers
                                > called VINs. Yeah, it's a tax grab, more then that, it's a fools tax
                                > grab. Here is the thing, say you have 2,000,000 bicycles in the state,
                                > say half of those will not be registered for legitimate reasons, like it
                                > hasn't been ridden in the last 5 years, or isn't ridden on public
                                > streets, or it's a kiddie bike. Given a 100% compliance, you would
                                > raise about $25,000,000 the first year, except you will not get 100%
                                > compliance, probably closer to 65% - 75% so maybe the income is $16 -$19
                                > million, do you honestly think that a government can set up a bicycle
                                > version of the DMV for only $19 million, ha! probably closer to $40 -
                                > $50 million. Now figure that maybe 50% will renew the registration, so
                                > your raising $2,500,000 a year, there is no honest way you could run
                                > this as a state wide program for $2,500,000.
                                >
                                > This is why nearly every bicycle licence scheme is abandoned after a
                                > year or two, because it costs to much for the revenue it generates,
                                > making it a fools tax grab, because it doesn't net any revenue.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > On 11-03-02 04:01 PM, Rich wrote:
                                > >
                                > > I've owned my Paramount for 15 years.
                                > > The bike has never been stolen.
                                > > Leave a bike somewhere long enough and it'll disappear p[lates or no
                                > > plates.
                                > > Anyone who thinks paltes on a bike will get the bike back or keep it
                                > > from getting stolen in the first place...shouldn't be riding a bike.
                                > > (get a different hobby)
                                > > This proposal has absolutely NO merit othr than generate money for a
                                > > state which squandered what it had paying off unions/and medicaid to
                                > > keep it's politicians getting re-elected.
                                > > Rich Mc.
                                > >
                                > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                                > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>, Paul Schmidt
                                > > <paul.schmidt@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > Plating bikes serves two possible purposes, one is a tax grab, the
                                > > other
                                > > > is to reduce theft, and reducing theft only works if you could actually
                                > > > absolutely identify all bicycles. I can't see that working well,
                                > > > especially for older bicycles, look at the number of threads on
                                > > > BikeForums C&V that start: I have this frame, and I have no idea
                                > > what it
                                > > > is, because someone scraped off the decals and dremelled off the stops
                                > > > and hangers then painted it black and the only number on it looks like
                                > > > it could be B,E,F,H,I or T then C,O,Q or 0 then a number that looks
                                > > like
                                > > > 23 and there could be 2 or 3 numbers and maybe another letter. 99% of
                                > > > the time, it's simply a tax grab.
                                > > >
                                > > > Protests usually come from 3 sources, one is residents who have
                                > > > bicycles, sometimes several who will be majorly hit by the new tax,
                                > > > second is environmental groups who will see people deciding that the
                                > > > extra tax is too big an extra burden and just continue driving, third
                                > > > tourism boards, who see people who would bring and use bikes into the
                                > > > states, avoiding that state because of the extra tax.
                                > > >
                                > > > It's been done before and usually the cost to run the program costs
                                > > more
                                > > > then the fees generated, so they quit after a while.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > On 11-03-01 11:37 AM, Rich wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > New York..aka fools paradise has a flatbush legilator who just
                                > > > > presented a bill to require cyclists to regiseter each bicycle they
                                > > > > own( $25. a bike)and pay a $5. a year tag for each as well.
                                > > > > I'll repeat my opening line..
                                > > > > This, folks IS NEW YORK.
                                > > > > Rich mc.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                                > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > > > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>, "Putnam A. Merriam"
                                > > > > <putnammerriam@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Hi all,
                                > > > > > What does this mean, "Motorized Bicycle"?... Motorized would be an
                                > > > > 'Electricly Powered' bike...thus, a fuel powered bike would be an
                                > > > > 'Engine Powered' bicycle.
                                > > > > > Why would, in this day of our badly needed "Green Movement", would
                                > > > > anybody object to something that reduces the demand on our planet?
                                > > > > > If they're concerned about safety...just let them take a look at
                                > > the
                                > > > > "Humanly Powered" bicycles of the messengers IN New York City! Those
                                > > > > riders go far faster than any electric or gas powered bike I've ever
                                > > > > tried....just makes me shake my head...........
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Putnam
                                > > > > > Knights Landing, CA.
                                > > > > > (Pop. 890)
                                > > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >

                                 

                                 

                                 

                              • dlhughes001@juno.com
                                We have TONS of those Lance wannabe s here in Austin, where Lance hisself lives. And yeah, most of them are truly clueless about riding bicycles on the road
                                Message 15 of 18 , Mar 6, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  We have TONS of those Lance wannabe's here in Austin, where Lance 'hisself' lives. And yeah, most of them are truly clueless about riding bicycles on the road with cars. They just want to look good out there on their $5000 carbon bikes (whose forks will break within a couple of years) and wearing their $500 (or more!) worth of Spandex clothing. They're pretty ridiculous, actually.
                                  Dave Hughes
                                   

                                  ---------- Original Message ----------
                                  From: "Steve Birmingham" <sbirmingham@...>
                                  To: <Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Subject: RE: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Green... what?
                                  Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 15:40:04 -0500

                                   

                                  How about bringing back “cross at the green not in between” And fines for jaywalking.

                                  And get rid of the crosswalks every 20 yards or so.

                                   

                                  And maybe telling the oldsters to look both ways before stepping into traffic.

                                   

                                  Not that steep fines for the Lance wannabes who must ride at 25+ and can’t ever use their brakes (or eyes, or ears, or common sense, or even sense of self preservation!) would be a bad thing.

                                   

                                  Steve B

                                   

                                  From: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of will@...
                                  Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 01:57 PM
                                  To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Green... what?

                                   

                                   

                                  It's the type of "idea" crafted by someone who hasn't even the slightest clue as to what even casual bicycle ownership entails.

                                  Further, this is good example of how policy should not be crafted.  Certainly the elderly should not be run over by bicycles.  I don't know anyone advocating for that.  But is it really a problem?  I mean, how many elderly are we talking about here?  What injuries have been involved?  Where at the statistics the empirical evidence that this is actually problem.  And, is a bicycle plate really the best solution?

                                  I can't see how the answers to any of these questions lead to the solution proposed.  It just seems asinine and arbitrary - in other words the worst type of law making.

                                  I don't know anything about "Assemblywoman Cleopatra Tucker" but if this any indication of how she conducts her job, I hope she is challenged soon by a pro-cycling candidate.

                                  On 3/6/2011 12:42 PM, Khalid Mateen wrote:

                                  Check this out.

                                   

                                  THe bill has been killed, fortunately.

                                   

                                  TRENTON — Well, that was fast.

                                  One week to the day after the introduction of a bill proposing bicycles to be registered with the state Motor Vehicle Commission, its primary sponsor has withdrawn it.

                                  Assemblywoman Cleopatra Tucker (D-Essex), who sponsored the killed bill, A-3657, has reconsidered her proposal.

                                  In a statement from the Assemblywoman quoted in the Star-Ledger, Tucker wrote “My intention was never to impose a burden or additional costs.”

                                  First-time registration would expire after two years. The bill states a fee of up to $10, annually, would be in place after that period.

                                  Parents or guardians would perform these duties for riders under the age of 15. Fines of up to $100 could have followed for those who did not register.

                                  “My goal was to at least begin a discussion of how best to protect elderly pedestrians. No idea is perfect, but protecting elderly pedestrians deserves attention,” said Tucker

                                  She added that elderly pedestrians had contacted her office in Newark, stating they had been knocked from their feet by bike riders. There was no method in place for these victims to a file a complaint however.

                                  License plates, to be provided by the state, would need to be attached when riding on any public land or road in the state.

                                  If the bill had been passed, the victim could identify the bike’s physical traits and license plate which, in theory, could be used to locate the owner.

                                  “I would encourage everyone to give thought to how best we can protect elderly pedestrians and suggest solutions,” the statement read.

                                  Linwood-based attorney and bicycle enthusiast Jeff Sutherland said the entire concept of registration is flawed. If the purpose is not to deter theft, “its a losing proposition.”

                                  Sutherland, who lives in Ocean City and owns a dozen bicycles himself, said theft is common there. The Ocean City Police Department offers bike registration for free.

                                  People who come to visit his Ocean City home often take trips on one of his 12 bikes.

                                  The bill stated registration would “not apply to a nonresident bicycle owner who has complied with the registration and licensing laws of his state of residence.”

                                  Out-of-state plates would also be permitted by law enforcement tasked with ensuring the proper paperwork.

                                  “My hobby is building custom bikes,” he said, adding trips to swap meets for various parts was part of the process.

                                  “The fun of it is putting together a bike with parts that don’t even belong together. How are they going to register that?” he said.

                                  Response to Thursday’s News story about the bill matched most of what was being said state-wide; this was a bad idea.

                                  “If it was free, it could have been a good idea. But its not,” said James Caldwell.

                                  Caldwell, from Randy’s General Store here on Commerce Street, added the ordinance would have been a “headache” for many of the parties involved.

                                  Citing the economy, Caldwell said a family with five bicyclists would be out $50 after registration fees.

                                  “That’s a week’s worth of groceries to some families,” he said.

                                  Caldwell owns five bikes himself and recently had one stolen off of his porch. It was recovered by law enforcement before he even knew it was gone.

                                  Overall, he isn’t opposed to the registration so long it is used to deter theft.

                                  “You would have police officers after all these kids without registered bikes when they could have been doing something more important,” he said.

                                   

                                   


                                  From: Khalid Mateen <chalid2007@...>
                                  To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 1:36:48 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Green... what?

                                   

                                  I am glad.  They are trying to do it here in NJ but nobody is supporting it.  The woman who tried to set up a registration with license plates for people who ride bikes.  In addition, you pay $10 dollars a year to renew your bicycle license.  The senator who wanted to do this because she said she gets complaints from old women being runned over by bicyclers.   This will only discourage people to want to bicycle due to the fact you have to be registered by the DMV to ride a bike.  Ridiculous and sometimes I wonder how people like this actual run things or why people vote them in.

                                   

                                  K.

                                   


                                  From: Rich <mcyak@...>
                                  To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sun, March 6, 2011 12:26:26 PM
                                  Subject: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Green... what?

                                   

                                  FOLKS>>>IT'S OVER>
                                  THE TAX PROPOSAL HAS BEEB DROPPED,SCRAPPED,PUT TO BED.
                                  THe Legislators site was so overhwelmed with e-mails and phone calls etc. it crashed.
                                  Guess he (and other legislators who saw the light)decided to scrap the idea and keep his job come next election.
                                  SO>>WE CAN ALL GO BACK TO SHARING THOSE GREAT IDEAS AND SECRETS ABOUT RESTORING BIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                                  8oD!!
                                  Rich mc.

                                  --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, Paul Schmidt <paul.schmidt@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Anyone who thinks plates will keep something from getting stolen, should
                                  > ring up their local constabulary and ask when the last car was reported
                                  > stolen, I doubt there are many places in New York State where it's been
                                  > more then 48 hours, and cars have plates and well managed serial numbers
                                  > called VINs. Yeah, it's a tax grab, more then that, it's a fools tax
                                  > grab. Here is the thing, say you have 2,000,000 bicycles in the state,
                                  > say half of those will not be registered for legitimate reasons, like it
                                  > hasn't been ridden in the last 5 years, or isn't ridden on public
                                  > streets, or it's a kiddie bike. Given a 100% compliance, you would
                                  > raise about $25,000,000 the first year, except you will not get 100%
                                  > compliance, probably closer to 65% - 75% so maybe the income is $16 -$19
                                  > million, do you honestly think that a government can set up a bicycle
                                  > version of the DMV for only $19 million, ha! probably closer to $40 -
                                  > $50 million. Now figure that maybe 50% will renew the registration, so
                                  > your raising $2,500,000 a year, there is no honest way you could run
                                  > this as a state wide program for $2,500,000.
                                  >
                                  > This is why nearly every bicycle licence scheme is abandoned after a
                                  > year or two, because it costs to much for the revenue it generates,
                                  > making it a fools tax grab, because it doesn't net any revenue.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On 11-03-02 04:01 PM, Rich wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I've owned my Paramount for 15 years.
                                  > > The bike has never been stolen.
                                  > > Leave a bike somewhere long enough and it'll disappear p[lates or no
                                  > > plates.
                                  > > Anyone who thinks paltes on a bike will get the bike back or keep it
                                  > > from getting stolen in the first place...shouldn't be riding a bike.
                                  > > (get a different hobby)
                                  > > This proposal has absolutely NO merit othr than generate money for a
                                  > > state which squandered what it had paying off unions/and medicaid to
                                  > > keep it's politicians getting re-elected.
                                  > > Rich Mc.
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>, Paul Schmidt
                                  > > <paul.schmidt@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Plating bikes serves two possible purposes, one is a tax grab, the
                                  > > other
                                  > > > is to reduce theft, and reducing theft only works if you could actually
                                  > > > absolutely identify all bicycles. I can't see that working well,
                                  > > > especially for older bicycles, look at the number of threads on
                                  > > > BikeForums C&V that start: I have this frame, and I have no idea
                                  > > what it
                                  > > > is, because someone scraped off the decals and dremelled off the stops
                                  > > > and hangers then painted it black and the only number on it looks like
                                  > > > it could be B,E,F,H,I or T then C,O,Q or 0 then a number that looks
                                  > > like
                                  > > > 23 and there could be 2 or 3 numbers and maybe another letter. 99% of
                                  > > > the time, it's simply a tax grab.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Protests usually come from 3 sources, one is residents who have
                                  > > > bicycles, sometimes several who will be majorly hit by the new tax,
                                  > > > second is environmental groups who will see people deciding that the
                                  > > > extra tax is too big an extra burden and just continue driving, third
                                  > > > tourism boards, who see people who would bring and use bikes into the
                                  > > > states, avoiding that state because of the extra tax.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > It's been done before and usually the cost to run the program costs
                                  > > more
                                  > > > then the fees generated, so they quit after a while.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > On 11-03-01 11:37 AM, Rich wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > New York..aka fools paradise has a flatbush legilator who just
                                  > > > > presented a bill to require cyclists to regiseter each bicycle they
                                  > > > > own( $25. a bike)and pay a $5. a year tag for each as well.
                                  > > > > I'll repeat my opening line..
                                  > > > > This, folks IS NEW YORK.
                                  > > > > Rich mc.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > > > <mailto:Bicycle_Restoration%40yahoogroups.com>, "Putnam A. Merriam"
                                  > > > > <putnammerriam@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Hi all,
                                  > > > > > What does this mean, "Motorized Bicycle"?... Motorized would be an
                                  > > > > 'Electricly Powered' bike...thus, a fuel powered bike would be an
                                  > > > > 'Engine Powered' bicycle.
                                  > > > > > Why would, in this day of our badly needed "Green Movement", would
                                  > > > > anybody object to something that reduces the demand on our planet?
                                  > > > > > If they're concerned about safety...just let them take a look at
                                  > > the
                                  > > > > "Humanly Powered" bicycles of the messengers IN New York City! Those
                                  > > > > riders go far faster than any electric or gas powered bike I've ever
                                  > > > > tried....just makes me shake my head...........
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Putnam
                                  > > > > > Knights Landing, CA.
                                  > > > > > (Pop. 890)
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >

                                   

                                   

                                   



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