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Re: big fan of the Rx-100 group

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  • Rich
    I ve got over 20,000 on the Rx-100 groupset on my 91 Paramount OS The indes shifter finally gave up the ghost (and when they do..they do instantly OO)last
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 1, 2010
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      I've got over 20,000 on the Rx-100 groupset on my 91 Paramount OS
      The indes shifter finally gave up the ghost (and when they do..they do instantly OO)last fall.
      I finally found a guy in Hungary (no less!)who had a set of Rx-100 nos for an extreemly reasonable price.
      I really like this component group. I'd have a really hard time justifying a upgrade on my Paramount aside from the compact crankset I went over to 5 years back (Stronglight. almost identical arm/spider to the oem cranks..color me happy)
      Rich Mc.


      --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, "will@..." <will@...> wrote:
      >
      > I really like the last generation of the 600 group - the one from the
      > late 80s or early 90s with the three blue boxes graphic. That's the
      > only version in my mind which can be called "Ultergra level." On this
      > point, sellers really need to quit fooling themselves that 600 =
      > Ultegra. I see that so much, in fact I've seen ads for bikes equipped
      > with Ultegra only to find out that it's really a 600 bike. I'm not sure
      > how that meme got started, but people need to give it a rest.
      >
      > I'm also a big fan of the RX100 group from about the same era, though I
      > sense that the brifters from this group haven't held up well over time.
      > The downtown shifters are marvelous.
      >
      > As for the value of a complete first-generation 600 group (brakes,
      > crank, shifters, derailleurs, levers)... there is no reason why a
      > no-reserve, .99 cent opening bid auction could get up to $100. I think
      > the problem is sellers aren't motivated so they list with reserves or
      > unrealistic opening bids - this fails to attract bidders and thus
      > doesn't generate any back and forth bidding. Gotta go no reserve and
      > .99 cent opening bid... it's the only way to sell.
      >
      > I think there are a lot of kids out there ridding older bike-boom bikes
      > who would like to upgrade or freshen up their ride. A complete 600
      > group would be a fun parts swap for newbie bike mechanics. Lots of
      > Miyatas, Nishikis, and Univegas out there sporting low-end Suntour stuff
      > that could benefit from this.
      >
      > In the end, everything is worth what its buyer will pay.
      >
      >
      > On 3/31/2010 2:27 PM, gabalke@... wrote:
      > > Forbes, are you referring to the 600 EX series know as the Arebesque style?
      > >
      > > GB
      > > ---- Forbes Black<diarmaede@...> wrote:
      > > > I think the main problem is that there is still tons of old Shimano 600 stuff available. This was not top-of-the line. Dura-Ace was always on top. For a few years, the Sante gruppo was between D/A and 600. Buzillions of bicycles came with first generation 600 equipment on them, and a lot of it is still out there on mid-level bikes from the 80s.
      > > >
      > > > It's not bad stuff, although the cranks are pretty flexy. I like the looks of the gruppo. What do you call that flower pattern, again?
      > > >
      > > > Cheers,
      > > >
      > > > Forbes
      > > >
      > > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, "joesjunkpile"<mckishen1@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I was just wondering what a complete first generation Shimano 600 Group would be worth?
      > > > >
      > > > > Crankset, front and rear derailer, 14-24 5 speed freewheel, and dt shifters.
      > > > >
      > > > > I've watched a few new old stock bits and pieces go unsold for very low bids on eBay, and figured that this stuff has to be worth at least what it sold for when new in today's prices. I think the crankset was marked $44.99, the RD was marked $19.99, and the FD at $12.99, and the freewheel had a $14.99 tag on it. Yet I just watched several on eBay go unsold for $10 and $5 shipping. I would think that this early Shimano top of the line would have at least some value, yet it seems that even low end Suntour components bring more money there.
      > > > > Why is it that Shimano just don't seem to have any value these days?
      > > > >
      > > > > About two months ago bought a new old stock Shimano 600 EX group set, including brakes, hubs, chain, cables, seat post, and stem for $57 all new in the box. I would think that someone would have seen the value in that lot of parts. Bidding started at $49.99. I also won a new old stock first generation Shimano 105 group, gear train, hubs, FF, and brakes for $24.
      > > > >
      > > > > Was there something wrong with the older Shimano components? I'd have to say that both the early Shimano and Suntour components were about the same in number back then, with a slight edge to Suntour, and today I'd say that the early Shimano stuff is a bit harder to find from personal experience.
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • joesjunkpile
      Wasn t that later 6400 series with the blue boxes on the logo the first with index shifting? I ve got a new old stock custom built Lotus that has an inbetween
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 1, 2010
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        Wasn't that later 6400 series with the blue boxes on the logo the first with index shifting?
        I've got a new old stock custom built Lotus that has an inbetween version of that series. The bike I believe is a 1986 model, which has those cranks, friction levers, and matching derailleurs, hubs, brakes, etc. I've also got that same set with index shifters boxed as a factory set. They don't sell either for even half of what they cost new.

        I don't recall very many bikes having any of the 600EX or Arabesque components in the early 80's, the only bike I can think of off hand that was common around here was a Ross Super Gran Tour and one or two model Treks which were pretty costly back then. The Ross, which was a tank, sold for over $400 in 1980, double that for the other models with that group installed. The reason I have so much of it is because I needed a crankset and brake caliper set for a bike here, and had to buy four complete groups to get it. I looked all over for 4 years before finding it. I think the Trek model that had it was a 700 or 900, but even then it was an optional set over what ever was standard, most opted for Campy rather than Shimano back then which was a fairly new name to road bikes, at least in the upper end market. Huret and Campy still ruled the market then. The top of the line Shimano then was Dura Ace, but their rear derailleur was called Crane, not DA. That stuff was only a slight bit lighter than the 600 components. Even when the Japanese components began to take hold, it was Suntour that took off in popularity more than Shimano at first. Even today Suntour will out sell a Shimano part of the same period.
        I ran a lot of Suntour components back then as well as Huret. I never much cared for the Campy stuff. Being a guy that rode a large frame, those minor weight savings weren't as important, or at least not important enough to blow an extra $300 or so bucks on a group that didn't perform any better than the Japanese made components.

        I would have figured that Shimano, especially that older stuff would be the rarer find today, I can still walk into some old bike shops and find NOS Suntour, most never carried Shimano at all back then.
        I believe the 600 EX stuff first surfaced around 1978 or so?

        If I recall, Shimano was somewhat frowned upon back then because parts were hard to get, things like bearing cones and other small parts were a hassle to order as most suppliers didn't carry them yet, the only option was to buy direct from Shimano, which was always a hassle to get what you wanted, not to mention their parts were expensive.

        I gave a list of components to a buddy that rides with a club, he had said that there were several guys into old bikes who would be interested in some parts or whole bikes. I had two guys come over, I showed them the bikes they were interested in and they offered me only $50 for a new old stock Peugeot PX10, circa 1971, and a 1974 Grand Jubile by Motobecane with all Huret Jubile components. They tried to say that the old bikes were worthless these days and that old parts were junk. I guess the figured that a guy with all these parts would be blind to what the Huret components bring on eBay. Even though they don't bring the $350 per derailleur they were bringing a few years ago, there's no way I'd let a whole new old stock bike go for $50. They showed up here in a brand new DTS Caddy, with a temp tag on the back, so they weren't two guys hurting for money. I hate to break up new bikes but it seems like the only way to get any money out of them. No one seems to want the bikes, just the components, and if the components are Shimano, they don't want any of it. I guess I'll just pack them away for another ten or so years and see what they bring then. I just was trying to lighten the load for an upcoming move, but I see that won't happen. I'm certainly not giving this stuff away.
        If I went to a bike shop, I couldn't buy a pair of tires for $50, let alone a whole bike. The last time I was in a bike shop that actually had road bikes, the cheapest road bike there was over $800, and they went up from there, and not a single bike had large frame, the guy even told me that he wouldn't think of selling a guy my size a bike. That place told me that anyone over 170 lbs shouldn't ride a bike. I see now that their out of business though.

        Part of the problem seems to be that there is no road bike market anywhere around here, let alone no place to ride one. The roads aren't thin tire friendly at all, and there are no shoulders to ride on that aren't stepped or full of broken asphalt, rocks, or broken glass. I took a ride around the block, about 4 miles the other day on an old bike I dug out, I had three close calls, one may have been intentional and a police officer that stopped me for ID and told me that this was no place to ride a bike. I was the only one on that road, it wasn't a busy street, and it was less than a secondary level county road. What it boils down to is that they assume anyone riding a bike is doing so because they either don't have a license due to DUI, or they're up to no good. I took a ride on another bike, about 15 miles or so before all the rain we had last week, I didn't see another bike the whole ride. I would think that with gas in again pushing $3.55 per gallon there would be more bikes out and about. So far I see few or none.
        What I do see is parks and public places now putting up NO BIKES signs because of all the BMX bikes that are jumping and grinding up all the walls, benches, and railings. The few places that had bike racks or parking areas have done away with them.




        --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, "will@..." <will@...> wrote:
        >
        > I really like the last generation of the 600 group - the one from the
        > late 80s or early 90s with the three blue boxes graphic. That's the
        > only version in my mind which can be called "Ultergra level." On this
        > point, sellers really need to quit fooling themselves that 600 =
        > Ultegra. I see that so much, in fact I've seen ads for bikes equipped
        > with Ultegra only to find out that it's really a 600 bike. I'm not sure
        > how that meme got started, but people need to give it a rest.
        >
        > I'm also a big fan of the RX100 group from about the same era, though I
        > sense that the brifters from this group haven't held up well over time.
        > The downtown shifters are marvelous.
        >
        > As for the value of a complete first-generation 600 group (brakes,
        > crank, shifters, derailleurs, levers)... there is no reason why a
        > no-reserve, .99 cent opening bid auction could get up to $100. I think
        > the problem is sellers aren't motivated so they list with reserves or
        > unrealistic opening bids - this fails to attract bidders and thus
        > doesn't generate any back and forth bidding. Gotta go no reserve and
        > .99 cent opening bid... it's the only way to sell.
        >
        > I think there are a lot of kids out there ridding older bike-boom bikes
        > who would like to upgrade or freshen up their ride. A complete 600
        > group would be a fun parts swap for newbie bike mechanics. Lots of
        > Miyatas, Nishikis, and Univegas out there sporting low-end Suntour stuff
        > that could benefit from this.
        >
        > In the end, everything is worth what its buyer will pay.
        >
        >
        > On 3/31/2010 2:27 PM, gabalke@... wrote:
        > > Forbes, are you referring to the 600 EX series know as the Arebesque style?
        > >
        > > GB
        > > ---- Forbes Black<diarmaede@...> wrote:
        > > > I think the main problem is that there is still tons of old Shimano 600 stuff available. This was not top-of-the line. Dura-Ace was always on top. For a few years, the Sante gruppo was between D/A and 600. Buzillions of bicycles came with first generation 600 equipment on them, and a lot of it is still out there on mid-level bikes from the 80s.
        > > >
        > > > It's not bad stuff, although the cranks are pretty flexy. I like the looks of the gruppo. What do you call that flower pattern, again?
        > > >
        > > > Cheers,
        > > >
        > > > Forbes
        > > >
        > > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, "joesjunkpile"<mckishen1@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > I was just wondering what a complete first generation Shimano 600 Group would be worth?
        > > > >
        > > > > Crankset, front and rear derailer, 14-24 5 speed freewheel, and dt shifters.
        > > > >
        > > > > I've watched a few new old stock bits and pieces go unsold for very low bids on eBay, and figured that this stuff has to be worth at least what it sold for when new in today's prices. I think the crankset was marked $44.99, the RD was marked $19.99, and the FD at $12.99, and the freewheel had a $14.99 tag on it. Yet I just watched several on eBay go unsold for $10 and $5 shipping. I would think that this early Shimano top of the line would have at least some value, yet it seems that even low end Suntour components bring more money there.
        > > > > Why is it that Shimano just don't seem to have any value these days?
        > > > >
        > > > > About two months ago bought a new old stock Shimano 600 EX group set, including brakes, hubs, chain, cables, seat post, and stem for $57 all new in the box. I would think that someone would have seen the value in that lot of parts. Bidding started at $49.99. I also won a new old stock first generation Shimano 105 group, gear train, hubs, FF, and brakes for $24.
        > > > >
        > > > > Was there something wrong with the older Shimano components? I'd have to say that both the early Shimano and Suntour components were about the same in number back then, with a slight edge to Suntour, and today I'd say that the early Shimano stuff is a bit harder to find from personal experience.
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Emmanouil Skoufos
        (thread hi-jack) Are you sure that these are PX-10 and Grand Jubilee? Both came stock with Campy (well, the Moto, mostly Campy) components. Huret for French
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 1, 2010
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          (thread hi-jack)
          Are you sure that these are PX-10 and Grand Jubilee?  Both came stock with Campy (well, the Moto, mostly Campy) components.  Huret for French bikes of the era were about third from the top on the pecking scale after Campy and Simplex.  That's a shame they low-balled you like that.  If you still have the bikes and want to sell them (and you are close to me -SE PA- might be because of the rain mention) let me know...

          (back to the 600 thread)
          The 6200 Arabesque was the first 600EX component set.  Then about '83 the 6207 component set was introduced and in 86 the 6208.  That one offered index shifting and aero brake levers.  640x aka "600 Ultegra" or "tricolor" (because of the prominent three color flag like decal) was introduced in the late 80s and then became the Ultegra group.  This one was 7-8 sp and was the first 600 group to include brifters (optional in the early 90s) and clipless pedals (made by Look).  Depending on what group we are talking about and what components, 640x has more value, then 6208, then the arabesque and then the 6207.  Still need to know the particular group, the particular pieces (like short-cage vs long cage RD) and the condition to judge...



          From: joesjunkpile <mckishen1@...>
          To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 10:02:49 PM
          Subject: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Value of vintage Shimano 600 Group?

           

          Wasn't that later 6400 series with the blue boxes on the logo the first with index shifting?
          I've got a new old stock custom built Lotus that has an inbetween version of that series. The bike I believe is a 1986 model, which has those cranks, friction levers, and matching derailleurs, hubs, brakes, etc. I've also got that same set with index shifters boxed as a factory set. They don't sell either for even half of what they cost new.

          I don't recall very many bikes having any of the 600EX or Arabesque components in the early 80's, the only bike I can think of off hand that was common around here was a Ross Super Gran Tour and one or two model Treks which were pretty costly back then. The Ross, which was a tank, sold for over $400 in 1980, double that for the other models with that group installed. The reason I have so much of it is because I needed a crankset and brake caliper set for a bike here, and had to buy four complete groups to get it. I looked all over for 4 years before finding it. I think the Trek model that had it was a 700 or 900, but even then it was an optional set over what ever was standard, most opted for Campy rather than Shimano back then which was a fairly new name to road bikes, at least in the upper end market. Huret and Campy still ruled the market then. The top of the line Shimano then was Dura Ace, but their rear derailleur was called Crane, not DA. That stuff was only a slight bit lighter than the 600 components. Even when the Japanese components began to take hold, it was Suntour that took off in popularity more than Shimano at first. Even today Suntour will out sell a Shimano part of the same period.
          I ran a lot of Suntour components back then as well as Huret. I never much cared for the Campy stuff. Being a guy that rode a large frame, those minor weight savings weren't as important, or at least not important enough to blow an extra $300 or so bucks on a group that didn't perform any better than the Japanese made components.

          I would have figured that Shimano, especially that older stuff would be the rarer find today, I can still walk into some old bike shops and find NOS Suntour, most never carried Shimano at all back then.
          I believe the 600 EX stuff first surfaced around 1978 or so?

          If I recall, Shimano was somewhat frowned upon back then because parts were hard to get, things like bearing cones and other small parts were a hassle to order as most suppliers didn't carry them yet, the only option was to buy direct from Shimano, which was always a hassle to get what you wanted, not to mention their parts were expensive.

          I gave a list of components to a buddy that rides with a club, he had said that there were several guys into old bikes who would be interested in some parts or whole bikes. I had two guys come over, I showed them the bikes they were interested in and they offered me only $50 for a new old stock Peugeot PX10, circa 1971, and a 1974 Grand Jubile by Motobecane with all Huret Jubile components. They tried to say that the old bikes were worthless these days and that old parts were junk. I guess the figured that a guy with all these parts would be blind to what the Huret components bring on eBay. Even though they don't bring the $350 per derailleur they were bringing a few years ago, there's no way I'd let a whole new old stock bike go for $50. They showed up here in a brand new DTS Caddy, with a temp tag on the back, so they weren't two guys hurting for money. I hate to break up new bikes but it seems like the only way to get any money out of them. No one seems to want the bikes, just the components, and if the components are Shimano, they don't want any of it. I guess I'll just pack them away for another ten or so years and see what they bring then. I just was trying to lighten the load for an upcoming move, but I see that won't happen. I'm certainly not giving this stuff away.
          If I went to a bike shop, I couldn't buy a pair of tires for $50, let alone a whole bike. The last time I was in a bike shop that actually had road bikes, the cheapest road bike there was over $800, and they went up from there, and not a single bike had large frame, the guy even told me that he wouldn't think of selling a guy my size a bike. That place told me that anyone over 170 lbs shouldn't ride a bike. I see now that their out of business though.

          Part of the problem seems to be that there is no road bike market anywhere around here, let alone no place to ride one. The roads aren't thin tire friendly at all, and there are no shoulders to ride on that aren't stepped or full of broken asphalt, rocks, or broken glass. I took a ride around the block, about 4 miles the other day on an old bike I dug out, I had three close calls, one may have been intentional and a police officer that stopped me for ID and told me that this was no place to ride a bike. I was the only one on that road, it wasn't a busy street, and it was less than a secondary level county road. What it boils down to is that they assume anyone riding a bike is doing so because they either don't have a license due to DUI, or they're up to no good. I took a ride on another bike, about 15 miles or so before all the rain we had last week, I didn't see another bike the whole ride. I would think that with gas in again pushing $3.55 per gallon there would be more bikes out and about. So far I see few or none.
          What I do see is parks and public places now putting up NO BIKES signs because of all the BMX bikes that are jumping and grinding up all the walls, benches, and railings. The few places that had bike racks or parking areas have done away with them.

          --- In Bicycle_Restoration @yahoogroups. com, "will@..." <will@...> wrote:
          >
          > I really like the last generation of the 600 group - the one from the
          > late 80s or early 90s with the three blue boxes graphic. That's the
          > only version in my mind which can be called "Ultergra level." On this
          > point, sellers really need to quit fooling themselves that 600 =
          > Ultegra. I see that so much, in fact I've seen ads for bikes equipped
          > with Ultegra only to find out that it's really a 600 bike. I'm not sure
          > how that meme got started, but people need to give it a rest.
          >
          > I'm also a big fan of the RX100 group from about the same era, though I
          > sense that the brifters from this group haven't held up well over time.
          > The downtown shifters are marvelous.
          >
          > As for the value of a complete first-generation 600 group (brakes,
          > crank, shifters, derailleurs, levers)... there is no reason why a
          > no-reserve, .99 cent opening bid auction could get up to $100. I think
          > the problem is sellers aren't motivated so they list with reserves or
          > unrealistic opening bids - this fails to attract bidders and thus
          > doesn't generate any back and forth bidding. Gotta go no reserve and
          > .99 cent opening bid... it's the only way to sell.
          >
          > I think there are a lot of kids out there ridding older bike-boom bikes
          > who would like to upgrade or freshen up their ride. A complete 600
          > group would be a fun parts swap for newbie bike mechanics. Lots of
          > Miyatas, Nishikis, and Univegas out there sporting low-end Suntour stuff
          > that could benefit from this.
          >
          > In the end, everything is worth what its buyer will pay.
          >
          >
          > On 3/31/2010 2:27 PM, gabalke@... wrote:
          > > Forbes, are you referring to the 600 EX series know as the Arebesque style?
          > >
          > > GB
          > > ---- Forbes Black<diarmaede@ ...> wrote:
          > > > I think the main problem is that there is still tons of old Shimano 600 stuff available. This was not top-of-the line. Dura-Ace was always on top. For a few years, the Sante gruppo was between D/A and 600. Buzillions of bicycles came with first generation 600 equipment on them, and a lot of it is still out there on mid-level bikes from the 80s.
          > > >
          > > > It's not bad stuff, although the cranks are pretty flexy. I like the looks of the gruppo. What do you call that flower pattern, again?
          > > >
          > > > Cheers,
          > > >
          > > > Forbes
          > > >
          > > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration @yahoogroups. com, "joesjunkpile" <mckishen1@ > wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > I was just wondering what a complete first generation Shimano 600 Group would be worth?
          > > > >
          > > > > Crankset, front and rear derailer, 14-24 5 speed freewheel, and dt shifters.
          > > > >
          > > > > I've watched a few new old stock bits and pieces go unsold for very low bids on eBay, and figured that this stuff has to be worth at least what it sold for when new in today's prices. I think the crankset was marked $44.99, the RD was marked $19.99, and the FD at $12.99, and the freewheel had a $14.99 tag on it. Yet I just watched several on eBay go unsold for $10 and $5 shipping. I would think that this early Shimano top of the line would have at least some value, yet it seems that even low end Suntour components bring more money there.
          > > > > Why is it that Shimano just don't seem to have any value these days?
          > > > >
          > > > > About two months ago bought a new old stock Shimano 600 EX group set, including brakes, hubs, chain, cables, seat post, and stem for $57 all new in the box. I would think that someone would have seen the value in that lot of parts. Bidding started at $49.99. I also won a new old stock first generation Shimano 105 group, gear train, hubs, FF, and brakes for $24.
          > > > >
          > > > > Was there something wrong with the older Shimano components? I'd have to say that both the early Shimano and Suntour components were about the same in number back then, with a slight edge to Suntour, and today I'd say that the early Shimano stuff is a bit harder to find from personal experience.
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >

        • joesjunkpile
          The Peugeot PX10 is I believe a 1969 or 1970 model, it was a bike that was saved by a former bike shop owner. I acquired it after he retired. Its one of the
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 1, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            The Peugeot PX10 is I believe a 1969 or 1970 model, it was a bike that was saved by a former bike shop owner. I acquired it after he retired. Its one of the only small frame bikes I have, I believe its a 23" seat tube frame. The derailleurs are Simplex Prestige, the cranks are Stronglight 93, the hubs are Normandy Luxe, and the rims are Monthlerey by Mavic with Hutchinson tubular tires. The bars and stem are AVA, the lugs are painted black and are Nervex lugs I believe. Mafac brakes, and a Brooks saddle which really surprised me. The bike is assembled, it was that way when I go it, but the wheels are removed and shrink wrapped to preserve the tires.

            The Motobecane Grand Jubile' is unassembled, but no box, it's got Huret Jubile' derailleurs, and I have an original sales brochure that matches that bike. I'm old enough to remember those when they were new, it was one of the last models to be sold with Huret derailleurs here. The next model up had Campy, but that was a big price jump upwards. The Grand Jubile' was a Reynolds 531 three tube frame. The GJ was all French with the exception of it's Weinmann brakes and GB stem and bars. The Grand Record was the next model up, which came with all Campy.
            I have seen a few European spec Grand Jubile' bikes with Mafac brakes and Pivo bars and stem, and other variations, so maybe the Huret set was US only?

            These bikes were what was still in service and showed up daily in bike shops back then, but that all died in the mid 80's or so, it was actually on a down slide after about the mid 70's or so.
            I worked part time for a shop back then that sold just about all brands, I do recall taking off a lot of French components in favor of either Japanese or campy parts back then. The same with the brakes, no one liked the Mafac brakes for some reason, nearly everyone wanted those gone from day one. Me being cheap, would run the take offs, the way I saw it, it was new parts for free. The bike shop had so many take offs they were throwing them away.

            I packed the Peugeot away last week, it's in the attic already for storage. I'm looking at maybe moving to FL, so depending on what I find there what I keep or decide to move now. I'll need a huge building no doubt. I have about 350x60' now plus my house attic, basement and garage, not to mention other hobbies like old tractors, cars, boats, and many other toys. A move will be interesting to say the least.

            I've also got a slew of decent older road bikes in the mid range, bikes like Trek 400 and 500 series, other Motobecane GJs from the later 70's, several Raleigh Super Courses', Super Gran Prix, Panasonic DX 2000, and 4000, both in 26" frames, and the 63cm Lotus which is a custom built bike from a frame up that was basically never ridden. (I rode that bike home, hated the out of reach DT shifters and never touched it again. I did dig it out a while back and put new rubber on it but still didn't like the geometry of that bike. It was supposed to be Champion #1 tubing but no stickers were ever put on it, and it was built with a chrome fork as the bike shop didn't feel that the original fork would hold up under my size. I have the original fork for that frame somewhere. That bike was set up with all 6400 components, which came with a dual shifter for friction or index shifting, I have a full on friction shifter for it somewhere. The frame I believe is 1985-86 model. I've never been able to match up a model, the frame was special ordered by a buddy who never paid for it, I got it a few years later for a big discount after he stuck the bike shop for it. I changed very little from the original order other than longer cranks and a 14-26 freewheel, vs a 13-18 that he had ordered. Even the chain is part of the Shimano 600 group. I've even got most of the boxes from all the parts that were used. I had thought about using all Dura Ace but figured it wasn't worth the money and the shop had all the 600 parts right there. They only had the DA derailleurs and shifters in stock. I did build an alternate wheelset for it too but sold those.






            --- In Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com, Emmanouil Skoufos <eskoufos@...> wrote:
            >
            > (thread hi-jack)
            > Are you sure that these are PX-10 and Grand Jubilee? Both came stock with Campy (well, the Moto, mostly Campy) components. Huret for French bikes of the era were about third from the top on the pecking scale after Campy and Simplex. That's a shame they low-balled you like that. If you still have the bikes and want to sell them (and you are close to me -SE PA- might be because of the rain mention) let me know...
            >
            > (back to the 600 thread)
            > The 6200 Arabesque was the first 600EX component set. Then about '83 the 6207 component set was introduced and in 86 the 6208. That one offered index shifting and aero brake levers. 640x aka "600 Ultegra" or "tricolor" (because of the prominent three color flag like decal) was introduced in the late 80s and then became the Ultegra group. This one was 7-8 sp and was the first 600 group to include brifters (optional in the early 90s) and clipless pedals (made by Look). Depending on what group we are talking about and what components, 640x has more value, then 6208, then the arabesque and then the 6207. Still need to know the particular group, the particular pieces (like short-cage vs long cage RD) and the condition to judge...
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: joesjunkpile <mckishen1@...>
            > To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thu, April 1, 2010 10:02:49 PM
            > Subject: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Value of vintage Shimano 600 Group?
            >
            >
            > Wasn't that later 6400 series with the blue boxes on the logo the first with index shifting?
            > I've got a new old stock custom built Lotus that has an inbetween version of that series. The bike I believe is a 1986 model, which has those cranks, friction levers, and matching derailleurs, hubs, brakes, etc. I've also got that same set with index shifters boxed as a factory set. They don't sell either for even half of what they cost new.
            >
            > I don't recall very many bikes having any of the 600EX or Arabesque components in the early 80's, the only bike I can think of off hand that was common around here was a Ross Super Gran Tour and one or two model Treks which were pretty costly back then. The Ross, which was a tank, sold for over $400 in 1980, double that for the other models with that group installed. The reason I have so much of it is because I needed a crankset and brake caliper set for a bike here, and had to buy four complete groups to get it. I looked all over for 4 years before finding it. I think the Trek model that had it was a 700 or 900, but even then it was an optional set over what ever was standard, most opted for Campy rather than Shimano back then which was a fairly new name to road bikes, at least in the upper end market. Huret and Campy still ruled the market then. The top of the line Shimano then was Dura Ace, but their rear derailleur was called Crane, not DA. That
            > stuff was only a slight bit lighter than the 600 components. Even when the Japanese components began to take hold, it was Suntour that took off in popularity more than Shimano at first. Even today Suntour will out sell a Shimano part of the same period.
            > I ran a lot of Suntour components back then as well as Huret. I never much cared for the Campy stuff. Being a guy that rode a large frame, those minor weight savings weren't as important, or at least not important enough to blow an extra $300 or so bucks on a group that didn't perform any better than the Japanese made components.
            >
            > I would have figured that Shimano, especially that older stuff would be the rarer find today, I can still walk into some old bike shops and find NOS Suntour, most never carried Shimano at all back then.
            > I believe the 600 EX stuff first surfaced around 1978 or so?
            >
            > If I recall, Shimano was somewhat frowned upon back then because parts were hard to get, things like bearing cones and other small parts were a hassle to order as most suppliers didn't carry them yet, the only option was to buy direct from Shimano, which was always a hassle to get what you wanted, not to mention their parts were expensive.
            >
            > I gave a list of components to a buddy that rides with a club, he had said that there were several guys into old bikes who would be interested in some parts or whole bikes. I had two guys come over, I showed them the bikes they were interested in and they offered me only $50 for a new old stock Peugeot PX10, circa 1971, and a 1974 Grand Jubile by Motobecane with all Huret Jubile components. They tried to say that the old bikes were worthless these days and that old parts were junk. I guess the figured that a guy with all these parts would be blind to what the Huret components bring on eBay. Even though they don't bring the $350 per derailleur they were bringing a few years ago, there's no way I'd let a whole new old stock bike go for $50. They showed up here in a brand new DTS Caddy, with a temp tag on the back, so they weren't two guys hurting for money. I hate to break up new bikes but it seems like the only way to get any money out of them. No one
            > seems to want the bikes, just the components, and if the components are Shimano, they don't want any of it. I guess I'll just pack them away for another ten or so years and see what they bring then. I just was trying to lighten the load for an upcoming move, but I see that won't happen. I'm certainly not giving this stuff away.
            > If I went to a bike shop, I couldn't buy a pair of tires for $50, let alone a whole bike. The last time I was in a bike shop that actually had road bikes, the cheapest road bike there was over $800, and they went up from there, and not a single bike had large frame, the guy even told me that he wouldn't think of selling a guy my size a bike. That place told me that anyone over 170 lbs shouldn't ride a bike. I see now that their out of business though.
            >
            > Part of the problem seems to be that there is no road bike market anywhere around here, let alone no place to ride one. The roads aren't thin tire friendly at all, and there are no shoulders to ride on that aren't stepped or full of broken asphalt, rocks, or broken glass. I took a ride around the block, about 4 miles the other day on an old bike I dug out, I had three close calls, one may have been intentional and a police officer that stopped me for ID and told me that this was no place to ride a bike. I was the only one on that road, it wasn't a busy street, and it was less than a secondary level county road. What it boils down to is that they assume anyone riding a bike is doing so because they either don't have a license due to DUI, or they're up to no good. I took a ride on another bike, about 15 miles or so before all the rain we had last week, I didn't see another bike the whole ride. I would think that with gas in again pushing $3.55 per gallon
            > there would be more bikes out and about. So far I see few or none.
            > What I do see is parks and public places now putting up NO BIKES signs because of all the BMX bikes that are jumping and grinding up all the walls, benches, and railings. The few places that had bike racks or parking areas have done away with them.
            >
            > --- In Bicycle_Restoration @yahoogroups. com, "will@" <will@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I really like the last generation of the 600 group - the one from the
            > > late 80s or early 90s with the three blue boxes graphic. That's the
            > > only version in my mind which can be called "Ultergra level." On this
            > > point, sellers really need to quit fooling themselves that 600 =
            > > Ultegra. I see that so much, in fact I've seen ads for bikes equipped
            > > with Ultegra only to find out that it's really a 600 bike. I'm not sure
            > > how that meme got started, but people need to give it a rest.
            > >
            > > I'm also a big fan of the RX100 group from about the same era, though I
            > > sense that the brifters from this group haven't held up well over time.
            > > The downtown shifters are marvelous.
            > >
            > > As for the value of a complete first-generation 600 group (brakes,
            > > crank, shifters, derailleurs, levers)... there is no reason why a
            > > no-reserve, .99 cent opening bid auction could get up to $100. I think
            > > the problem is sellers aren't motivated so they list with reserves or
            > > unrealistic opening bids - this fails to attract bidders and thus
            > > doesn't generate any back and forth bidding. Gotta go no reserve and
            > > .99 cent opening bid... it's the only way to sell.
            > >
            > > I think there are a lot of kids out there ridding older bike-boom bikes
            > > who would like to upgrade or freshen up their ride. A complete 600
            > > group would be a fun parts swap for newbie bike mechanics. Lots of
            > > Miyatas, Nishikis, and Univegas out there sporting low-end Suntour stuff
            > > that could benefit from this.
            > >
            > > In the end, everything is worth what its buyer will pay.
            > >
            > >
            > > On 3/31/2010 2:27 PM, gabalke@ wrote:
            > > > Forbes, are you referring to the 600 EX series know as the Arebesque style?
            > > >
            > > > GB
            > > > ---- Forbes Black<diarmaede@ ...> wrote:
            > > > > I think the main problem is that there is still tons of old Shimano 600 stuff available. This was not top-of-the line. Dura-Ace was always on top. For a few years, the Sante gruppo was between D/A and 600. Buzillions of bicycles came with first generation 600 equipment on them, and a lot of it is still out there on mid-level bikes from the 80s.
            > > > >
            > > > > It's not bad stuff, although the cranks are pretty flexy. I like the looks of the gruppo. What do you call that flower pattern, again?
            > > > >
            > > > > Cheers,
            > > > >
            > > > > Forbes
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In Bicycle_Restoration @yahoogroups. com, "joesjunkpile" <mckishen1@ > wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I was just wondering what a complete first generation Shimano 600 Group would be worth?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Crankset, front and rear derailer, 14-24 5 speed freewheel, and dt shifters.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I've watched a few new old stock bits and pieces go unsold for very low bids on eBay, and figured that this stuff has to be worth at least what it sold for when new in today's prices. I think the crankset was marked $44.99, the RD was marked $19.99, and the FD at $12.99, and the freewheel had a $14.99 tag on it. Yet I just watched several on eBay go unsold for $10 and $5 shipping. I would think that this early Shimano top of the line would have at least some value, yet it seems that even low end Suntour components bring more money there.
            > > > > > Why is it that Shimano just don't seem to have any value these days?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > About two months ago bought a new old stock Shimano 600 EX group set, including brakes, hubs, chain, cables, seat post, and stem for $57 all new in the box. I would think that someone would have seen the value in that lot of parts. Bidding started at $49.99. I also won a new old stock first generation Shimano 105 group, gear train, hubs, FF, and brakes for $24.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Was there something wrong with the older Shimano components? I'd have to say that both the early Shimano and Suntour components were about the same in number back then, with a slight edge to Suntour, and today I'd say that the early Shimano stuff is a bit harder to find from personal experience.
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
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