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Ordering a custom built wheel?

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  • will@x-net.net
    I m getting ready to pull the trigger on a custom built wheel for my commuter and wanted to see if you guys had any thoughts... The wheel would be coming from
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 4, 2010
      I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a custom built wheel for my
      commuter and wanted to see if you guys had any thoughts...

      The wheel would be coming from Alfred E. Bikes - I've ordered from them
      before, so feel good dealing with them.

      Rim: Salsa Delgado Cross 700c36h Black $39.60
      Hub: Shimano Nexus Inter-8 Premium Hub SG-8R36 36h $182.99
      Rim Strip: $4.99
      Wheel building (from A. E. Bikes): $63.00 - includes DT Swiss
      Competition double butted black spokes.
      Total: $301.33.

      Thing is, I was going to build it myself, except I don't have a
      tensiometer ($54 for the cheapest Park I could find) and 72 spokes are
      about $57. So for $63, they build the wheel right, tension it, and make
      sure they use the correct length spokes. On the downside I don't get an
      extra 36 spokes or the cool new tool.

      Alfred E. Bikes is also the cheapest I could find for the Nexus SG-8R36
      which is the best of the premium line. But gosh, $300 seems like a lot
      to drop on a wheel...

      Any thoughts?
    • Steve Birmingham
      Do they build the wheel there? If they do that s a very good deal. Even if they don t it s pretty good, but the wheel may need a little tweaking once you get
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 5, 2010

        Do they build the wheel there? If they do that’s a very good deal.

        Even if they don’t it’s pretty good, but the wheel may need a little tweaking once you get it.

         

        I don’t have the book here, but J+B will build any custom wheel a shop wants and not charge for the assembly. The tensioning and truing is ok, but not perfect in most cases.

         

        $63 for the spokes and the building is the big thing here. The black butted DT spokes aren’t cheap unless you buy a whole lot of them, figure a buck a spoke or more at a shop and nearly any decent –good wheelbuilder charges way more than the remaining $27 for a wheel build.

         

        So as long as the time +tools+ parts +learning curve  vs just ordering at $300 equation looks good to you I’d go for it.

         

        And if you do any wheel building and truing get the tensiometer. I did it for years without one and noticed an immediate improvement in the quality of my work once I got one.

         

        Steve Birmingham

        Lowell, Ma

         

         

        From: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of will@...
        Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 01:32 AM
        To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Bicycle_Restoration] Ordering a custom built wheel?

         

         

        I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a custom built wheel for my
        commuter and wanted to see if you guys had any thoughts...

        The wheel would be coming from Alfred E. Bikes - I've ordered from them
        before, so feel good dealing with them.

        Rim: Salsa Delgado Cross 700c36h Black $39.60
        Hub: Shimano Nexus Inter-8 Premium Hub SG-8R36 36h $182.99
        Rim Strip: $4.99
        Wheel building (from A. E. Bikes): $63.00 - includes DT Swiss
        Competition double butted black spokes.
        Total: $301.33.

        Thing is, I was going to build it myself, except I don't have a
        tensiometer ($54 for the cheapest Park I could find) and 72 spokes are
        about $57. So for $63, they build the wheel right, tension it, and make
        sure they use the correct length spokes. On the downside I don't get an
        extra 36 spokes or the cool new tool.

        Alfred E. Bikes is also the cheapest I could find for the Nexus SG-8R36
        which is the best of the premium line. But gosh, $300 seems like a lot
        to drop on a wheel...

        Any thoughts?

      • Forbes Black
        Also, talk to Anthony King at Longleaf Cycles.  He built me a wonderful wheel with a Nexus hub a while back.  He really knows his stuff, and his prices are
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 5, 2010
          Also, talk to Anthony King at Longleaf Cycles.  He built me a wonderful wheel with a Nexus hub a while back.  He really knows his stuff, and his prices are good.  He is currently having a wheelbuilding special where he only charges $15 for labor.  If Anthony builds you a wheel, you will never have to worry about it.

          http://www.longleafbicycles.com/

          Here is an article I wrote on the whole process:

          http://cycloculture.blogspot.com/2008/07/product-review-shimano-nexus-red-band-8.html

          I've never used a tensionometer, but it sounds like I should make the investment.  Thanks!

          Cheers,

          - Forbes Black, Santa Clarita, CA
          Cycloculture - A Journal for Real World Cyclists
          http://cycloculture.com/

          --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Steve Birmingham <sbirmingham@...> wrote:

          From: Steve Birmingham <sbirmingham@...>
          Subject: RE: [Bicycle_Restoration] Ordering a custom built wheel?
          To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:57 AM

           

          Do they build the wheel there? If they do that’s a very good deal.

          Even if they don’t it’s pretty good, but the wheel may need a little tweaking once you get it.

           

          I don’t have the book here, but J+B will build any custom wheel a shop wants and not charge for the assembly. The tensioning and truing is ok, but not perfect in most cases.

           

          $63 for the spokes and the building is the big thing here. The black butted DT spokes aren’t cheap unless you buy a whole lot of them, figure a buck a spoke or more at a shop and nearly any decent –good wheelbuilder charges way more than the remaining $27 for a wheel build.

           

          So as long as the time +tools+ parts +learning curve  vs just ordering at $300 equation looks good to you I’d go for it.

           

          And if you do any wheel building and truing get the tensiometer. I did it for years without one and noticed an immediate improvement in the quality of my work once I got one.

           

          Steve Birmingham

          Lowell, Ma

           

           

          From: Bicycle_Restoration @yahoogroups. com [mailto:Bicycle_ Restoration@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of will@...
          Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 01:32 AM
          To: Bicycle_Restoration @yahoogroups. com
          Subject: [Bicycle_Restoratio n] Ordering a custom built wheel?

           

           

          I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a custom built wheel for my
          commuter and wanted to see if you guys had any thoughts...

          The wheel would be coming from Alfred E. Bikes - I've ordered from them
          before, so feel good dealing with them.

          Rim: Salsa Delgado Cross 700c36h Black $39.60
          Hub: Shimano Nexus Inter-8 Premium Hub SG-8R36 36h $182.99
          Rim Strip: $4.99
          Wheel building (from A. E. Bikes): $63.00 - includes DT Swiss
          Competition double butted black spokes.
          Total: $301.33.

          Thing is, I was going to build it myself, except I don't have a
          tensiometer ($54 for the cheapest Park I could find) and 72 spokes are
          about $57. So for $63, they build the wheel right, tension it, and make
          sure they use the correct length spokes. On the downside I don't get an
          extra 36 spokes or the cool new tool.

          Alfred E. Bikes is also the cheapest I could find for the Nexus SG-8R36
          which is the best of the premium line. But gosh, $300 seems like a lot
          to drop on a wheel...

          Any thoughts?

        • Rick Paulos
          I ve only built up maybe 2,000 wheels. Fixed a few thousand more. Black spokes break far more often than silver spokes. I fix bikes on ragbrai each summer and
          Message 4 of 9 , Jan 5, 2010
            I've only built up maybe 2,000 wheels.  Fixed a few thousand more.

            Black spokes break far more often than silver spokes.  I fix bikes on ragbrai each summer and the number of black spokes we replace accounts for about 50% of broken spokes but I'd guess they make up less than 5% of the spokes on the ride.

            36 spokes is good.  Using those thinner spokes will be fine.  The thicker spokes in large numbers are fine for tandems but they are hard to get tight enough on single wheels.

            DT spokes are really first rate.  Just ask for silver.  BTW, silver will reflect more light than black for night communting.

            The only must have tool for an experienced wheel builder is a spoke wrench. You would want a spoke wrench of the right size for truing up the wheel and on the road repairs.  The rest just speeds up the work.  Tools that are more useful but not a necessity are a decent truing stand, a wheel dish gauge.  If you believe you must have a tensionometer to build a wheel, I've got some mountain view condos in Florida I'd let go for a song.

            The wheel may get wacked a bit out of true during shipping.

            Their labor is works out to about $30 which is reasonable.  But I've seen a pretty wide range of labor rates.  Don't forget they will also have to provide a box, time to box and ship.


            At 10:12 AM 1/5/2010, you wrote:
             

            Also, talk to Anthony King at Longleaf Cycles.  He built me a wonderful wheel with a Nexus hub a while back.  He really knows his stuff, and his prices are good.  He is currently having a wheelbuilding special where he only charges $15 for labor.  If Anthony builds you a wheel, you will never have to worry about it.

            http://www.longleafbicycles.com/

            Here is an article I wrote on the whole process:

            http://cycloculture.blogspot.com/2008/07/product-review-shimano-nexus-red-band-8.html

            I've never used a tensionometer, but it sounds like I should make the investment.  Thanks!

            Cheers,

            - Forbes Black, Santa Clarita, CA
            Cycloculture - A Journal for Real World Cyclists
            http://cycloculture.com/

            --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Steve Birmingham <sbirmingham@...> wrote:

            From: Steve Birmingham <sbirmingham@...>
            Subject: RE: [Bicycle_Restoration] Ordering a custom built wheel?
            To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:57 AM

             

            Do they build the wheel there? If they do that’s a very good deal.

            Even if they don’t it’s pretty good, but the wheel may need a little tweaking once you get it.

             

            I don’t have the book here, but J+B will build any custom wheel a shop wants and not charge for the assembly. The tensioning and truing is ok, but not perfect in most cases.

             

            $63 for the spokes and the building is the big thing here. The black butted DT spokes aren’t cheap unless you buy a whole lot of them, figure a buck a spoke or more at a shop and nearly any decent –good wheelbuilder charges way more than the remaining $27 for a wheel build.

             

            So as long as the time +tools+ parts +learning curve  vs just ordering at $300 equation looks good to you I’d go for it.

             

            And if you do any wheel building and truing get the tensiometer. I did it for years without one and noticed an immediate improvement in the quality of my work once I got one.

             

            Steve Birmingham

            Lowell, Ma

             

             

            From: Bicycle_Restoration @yahoogroups. com [ mailto:Bicycle_ Restoration@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of will@...
            Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 01:32 AM
            To: Bicycle_Restoration @yahoogroups. com
            Subject: [Bicycle_Restoratio n] Ordering a custom built wheel?

             

             

            I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a custom built wheel for my
            commuter and wanted to see if you guys had any thoughts...

            The wheel would be coming from Alfred E. Bikes - I've ordered from them
            before, so feel good dealing with them.

            Rim: Salsa Delgado Cross 700c36h Black $39.60
            Hub: Shimano Nexus Inter-8 Premium Hub SG-8R36 36h $182.99
            Rim Strip: $4.99
            Wheel building (from A. E. Bikes): $63.00 - includes DT Swiss
            Competition double butted black spokes.
            Total: $301.33.

            Thing is, I was going to build it myself, except I don't have a
            tensiometer ($54 for the cheapest Park I could find) and 72 spokes are
            about $57. So for $63, they build the wheel right, tension it, and make
            sure they use the correct length spokes. On the downside I don't get an
            extra 36 spokes or the cool new tool.

            Alfred E. Bikes is also the cheapest I could find for the Nexus SG-8R36
            which is the best of the premium line. But gosh, $300 seems like a lot
            to drop on a wheel...

            Any thoughts?


          • will@x-net.net
            Hi everyone, just a follow up to my custom wheel thread: - Rick, it blows my mind that black spokes would break more than standard silver ones. They are
            Message 5 of 9 , Jan 6, 2010
              Hi everyone, just a follow up to my custom wheel thread:

              - Rick, it blows my mind that black spokes would break more than standard silver ones.  They are anodized, you wouldn't think that would weaken things, but who knows?  Maybe people who have flashy black spokes are just harder on their ride?

              - Regarding tensionometer, I've built wheels without them before, but given the cost I wanted it "done right" this time.  I've never taken a class in wheel building and wouldn't know a lot about "feeling" or "listening" for the correct tension... and I was nervous about building up a wheel on a $200 hub.

              - I went on Forbes's recommendation and got a quote from Anthony at Longleaf Cycles in NC.  He was about $15 more than Alfred E. Bikes for the exact same wheel, HOWEVER, he warranties his work for life.  I clicked around the AEB website and couldn't find any info on what type of warranty their wheels carry.  (Though I have had good experiences dealing with them in the past.)  $15 isn't much to pay knowing if there is ever a problem with the wheel I can send it back to Anthony to be fixed up.  Also, I'm from South Carolina originally, so it's nice to support a southern bicycle business.  He also had the shifter I wanted for $21 and shipping was very reasonable.  Lastly, he was super responsive to my emails and answered all my questions.  I'll keep you guys posted when the wheel gets here.  I'm really anxious to check the Nexus hub out - I've actually never ridden one!

              Thanks again for all the feedback and help!

              Regards,
              Will

              On 1/5/2010 10:44 AM, Rick Paulos wrote: I've only built up maybe 2,000 wheels.  Fixed a few thousand more.

              Black spokes break far more often than silver spokes.  I fix bikes on ragbrai each summer and the number of black spokes we replace accounts for about 50% of broken spokes but I'd guess they make up less than 5% of the spokes on the ride.

              36 spokes is good.  Using those thinner spokes will be fine.  The thicker spokes in large numbers are fine for tandems but they are hard to get tight enough on single wheels.

              DT spokes are really first rate.  Just ask for silver.  BTW, silver will reflect more light than black for night communting.

              The only must have tool for an experienced wheel builder is a spoke wrench. You would want a spoke wrench of the right size for truing up the wheel and on the road repairs.  The rest just speeds up the work.  Tools that are more useful but not a necessity are a decent truing stand, a wheel dish gauge.  If you believe you must have a tensionometer to build a wheel, I've got some mountain view condos in Florida I'd let go for a song.

              The wheel may get wacked a bit out of true during shipping.

              Their labor is works out to about $30 which is reasonable.  But I've seen a pretty wide range of labor rates.  Don't forget they will also have to provide a box, time to box and ship.


              At 10:12 AM 1/5/2010, you wrote:
               

              Also, talk to Anthony King at Longleaf Cycles.  He built me a wonderful wheel with a Nexus hub a while back.  He really knows his stuff, and his prices are good.  He is currently having a wheelbuilding special where he only charges $15 for labor.  If Anthony builds you a wheel, you will never have to worry about it.

              http://www.longleafbicycles.com/

              Here is an article I wrote on the whole process:

              http://cycloculture.blogspot.com/2008/07/product-review-shimano-nexus-red-band-8.html

              I've never used a tensionometer, but it sounds like I should make the investment.  Thanks!

              Cheers,

              - Forbes Black, Santa Clarita, CA
              Cycloculture - A Journal for Real World Cyclists
              http://cycloculture.com/

              --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Steve Birmingham <sbirmingham@...> wrote:

              From: Steve Birmingham <sbirmingham@...>
              Subject: RE: [Bicycle_Restoration] Ordering a custom built wheel?
              To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:57 AM

               

              Do they build the wheel there? If they do that’s a very good deal.

              Even if they don’t it’s pretty good, but the wheel may need a little tweaking once you get it.

               

              I don’t have the book here, but J+B will build any custom wheel a shop wants and not charge for the assembly. The tensioning and truing is ok, but not perfect in most cases.

               

              $63 for the spokes and the building is the big thing here. The black butted DT spokes aren’t cheap unless you buy a whole lot of them, figure a buck a spoke or more at a shop and nearly any decent –good wheelbuilder charges way more than the remaining $27 for a wheel build.

               

              So as long as the time +tools+ parts +learning curve  vs just ordering at $300 equation looks good to you I’d go for it.

               

              And if you do any wheel building and truing get the tensiometer. I did it for years without one and noticed an immediate improvement in the quality of my work once I got one.

               

              Steve Birmingham

              Lowell, Ma

               

               

              From: Bicycle_Restoration @yahoogroups. com [ mailto:Bicycle_ Restoration@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of will@...
              Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 01:32 AM
              To: Bicycle_Restoration @yahoogroups. com
              Subject: [Bicycle_Restoratio n] Ordering a custom built wheel?

               

               

              I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a custom built wheel for my
              commuter and wanted to see if you guys had any thoughts...

              The wheel would be coming from Alfred E. Bikes - I've ordered from them
              before, so feel good dealing with them.

              Rim: Salsa Delgado Cross 700c36h Black $39.60
              Hub: Shimano Nexus Inter-8 Premium Hub SG-8R36 36h $182.99
              Rim Strip: $4.99
              Wheel building (from A. E. Bikes): $63.00 - includes DT Swiss
              Competition double butted black spokes.
              Total: $301.33.

              Thing is, I was going to build it myself, except I don't have a
              tensiometer ($54 for the cheapest Park I could find) and 72 spokes are
              about $57. So for $63, they build the wheel right, tension it, and make
              sure they use the correct length spokes. On the downside I don't get an
              extra 36 spokes or the cool new tool.

              Alfred E. Bikes is also the cheapest I could find for the Nexus SG-8R36
              which is the best of the premium line. But gosh, $300 seems like a lot
              to drop on a wheel...

              Any thoughts?



            • Steve Birmingham
              I’ve only built a few wheels, and trued a bunch, but nowhere near a few thousand – Maybe a couple hundred? The DT spokes are indeed the best choice. And
              Message 6 of 9 , Jan 6, 2010

                I’ve only built a few wheels, and trued a bunch, but nowhere near a few thousand – Maybe a couple hundred?

                 

                The DT spokes are indeed the best choice. And I’ve also seen a lot of black ones that have broken.

                Avoid the wheelmaster spokes from J+B, they’re terrible. Maybe ok for a casual rider, but most wheels I’ve sold with them this year for riders that ride more seriously have had to be rebuilt with DT after multiple spoke failures. So many that we’ve changed suppliers for most wheels unless we can get them with DT spokes.

                 

                 

                Now I’m curious…. Just a spoke wrench? I admit I’m inexperienced, but I also find the fancy tools to be a big help. At the shop we have a park ts-2 no dishing guage since the ts2 self centers. The wheels I’ve done without the tensiometer were actually a bit loose, and also had hops that took a bit of work to get out. With the tensiometer I find the hops are smaller and the tension is far more even. It could be because the whole process is slowed down a bit,

                or that I got better at the same time we got the tensiometer. Can you describe your methods for building with just the spoke wrench?

                (Maybe you use a frame or fork as a truing stand?)

                 

                I totally understand if you don’t want to let “trade secrets” out, but I’m thinking this is a great learning opportunity for the rest of us.

                 

                Steve

                 

                From: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Paulos
                Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 11:44 AM
                To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [Bicycle_Restoration] Ordering a custom built wheel?

                 

                 

                I've only built up maybe 2,000 wheels.  Fixed a few thousand more.

                Black spokes break far more often than silver spokes.  I fix bikes on ragbrai each summer and the number of black spokes we replace accounts for about 50% of broken spokes but I'd guess they make up less than 5% of the spokes on the ride.

                36 spokes is good.  Using those thinner spokes will be fine.  The thicker spokes in large numbers are fine for tandems but they are hard to get tight enough on single wheels.

                DT spokes are really first rate.  Just ask for silver.  BTW, silver will reflect more light than black for night communting.

                The only must have tool for an experienced wheel builder is a spoke wrench. You would want a spoke wrench of the right size for truing up the wheel and on the road repairs.  The rest just speeds up the work.  Tools that are more useful but not a necessity are a decent truing stand, a wheel dish gauge.  If you believe you must have a tensionometer to build a wheel, I've got some mountain view condos in Florida I'd let go for a song.

                The wheel may get wacked a bit out of true during shipping.

                Their labor is works out to about $30 which is reasonable.  But I've seen a pretty wide range of labor rates.  Don't forget they will also have to provide a box, time to box and ship.


                At 10:12 AM 1/5/2010, you wrote:

                 

                Also, talk to Anthony King at Longleaf Cycles.  He built me a wonderful wheel with a Nexus hub a while back.  He really knows his stuff, and his prices are good.  He is currently having a wheelbuilding special where he only charges $15 for labor.  If Anthony builds you a wheel, you will never have to worry about it.

                http://www.longleafbicycles.com/

                Here is an article I wrote on the whole process:

                http://cycloculture.blogspot.com/2008/07/product-review-shimano-nexus-red-band-8.html

                I've never used a tensionometer, but it sounds like I should make the investment.  Thanks!

                Cheers,

                - Forbes Black, Santa Clarita, CA
                Cycloculture - A Journal for Real World Cyclists
                http://cycloculture.com/

                --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Steve Birmingham <sbirmingham@...> wrote:

                From: Steve Birmingham <sbirmingham@...>

                Subject: RE: [Bicycle_Restoration] Ordering a custom built wheel?

                To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com

                Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 6:57 AM

                 

                Do they build the wheel there? If they do that’s a very good deal.

                Even if they don’t it’s pretty good, but the wheel may need a little tweaking once you get it.

                 

                I don’t have the book here, but J+B will build any custom wheel a shop wants and not charge for the assembly. The tensioning and truing is ok, but not perfect in most cases.

                 

                $63 for the spokes and the building is the big thing here. The black butted DT spokes aren’t cheap unless you buy a whole lot of them, figure a buck a spoke or more at a shop and nearly any decent –good wheelbuilder charges way more than the remaining $27 for a wheel build.

                 

                So as long as the time +tools+ parts +learning curve  vs just ordering at $300 equation looks good to you I’d go for it.

                 

                And if you do any wheel building and truing get the tensiometer. I did it for years without one and noticed an immediate improvement in the quality of my work once I got one.

                 

                Steve Birmingham

                Lowell, Ma

                 

                 

                From: Bicycle_Restoration @yahoogroups. com [ mailto:Bicycle_ Restoration@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of will@...

                Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 01:32 AM

                To: Bicycle_Restoration @yahoogroups. com

                Subject: [Bicycle_Restoratio n] Ordering a custom built wheel?

                 

                 

                I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a custom built wheel for my

                commuter and wanted to see if you guys had any thoughts...

                The wheel would be coming from Alfred E. Bikes - I've ordered from them

                before, so feel good dealing with them.

                Rim: Salsa Delgado Cross 700c36h Black $39.60

                Hub: Shimano Nexus Inter-8 Premium Hub SG-8R36 36h $182.99

                Rim Strip: $4.99

                Wheel building (from A. E. Bikes): $63.00 - includes DT Swiss

                Competition double butted black spokes.

                Total: $301.33.

                Thing is, I was going to build it myself, except I don't have a

                tensiometer ($54 for the cheapest Park I could find) and 72 spokes are

                about $57. So for $63, they build the wheel right, tension it, and make

                sure they use the correct length spokes. On the downside I don't get an

                extra 36 spokes or the cool new tool.

                Alfred E. Bikes is also the cheapest I could find for the Nexus SG-8R36

                which is the best of the premium line. But gosh, $300 seems like a lot

                to drop on a wheel...

                Any thoughts?

                 

              • Rich
                The finish on black spokes is NOT anodizing as only Aluminum and Magnesium are commonly anodized and I have never heard of aluminum or magnesium bicycle
                Message 7 of 9 , Jan 7, 2010
                  The finish on black spokes is NOT anodizing as only Aluminum and Magnesium are commonly anodized and I have never heard of aluminum or magnesium bicycle spokes. The only non coating based steel coloring process I am aware of is Bluing which is used on non stainless steel guns commonly.

                  Anodizing is an electrochemical process which forms a hard porous metal oxide surface on the metal which can accept dyes to give various colors. To anodize aluminum it is placed in a fairly dilute sulfuric acid bath and DC current is passed through the metal and solution. Depending on the thickness of the anodizing, alloy anodized and exact process details you can get normal anodizing or hard anodizing which is a thicker coating. Undyed color can vary from silver to dark brown.

                  Black, and other colored, spokes are painted or powder coated I believe and presumably go through some surface treatment to ensure best coating adhesion. Whatever the treatment is it apparently affects the work hardened surface of the spokes making them more fatigue failure susceptible. It could also be that they are subjected to heat, particularly if powder coating is the process used, as part of the coating process. This could also affect fatigue resistance.

                  Sorry for the rant but I get tired of reading about anodizing steel. It seems to be a common misconception and incorrect use of terminology. Here is a link to the Wikipedia article on Anodizing for those interested.

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodizing

                  Rich Wood
                • will@x-net.net
                  Just wanted to say that I received my nexus wheel from Anthony at Longleaf Cycles in North Carolina. It s beautiful. Sat it on the truing stand and it s
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 20, 2010
                    Just wanted to say that I received my nexus wheel from Anthony at
                    Longleaf Cycles in North Carolina. It's beautiful. Sat it on the
                    truing stand and it's straight as an arrow, even after being tossed
                    around in a box all weekend. Anthony was super accommodating and very
                    responsive to email. He answered all my questions and built the wheel
                    to my spec. His work came out about $15 more than AEB and that's with a
                    lifetime warranty.

                    The Nexus 8-speed hub is beautiful. Shifting is silky smooth and it's
                    whisper quite. I'm very glad I decided to go with one for winter
                    commuting in Chicago. The Salsa Delgado Cross rim is nice too (though
                    wider than I expected.) Seems like a pretty bomb proof budget rim that
                    a lot of people are lacing to Nexus hubs nowadays.

                    Special thanks to Forbes who recommended Longleaf.

                    Regards,
                    Will

                    On 1/7/2010 2:33 PM, Rich wrote:
                    > The finish on black spokes is NOT anodizing as only Aluminum and Magnesium are commonly anodized and I have never heard of aluminum or magnesium bicycle spokes. The only non coating based steel coloring process I am aware of is Bluing which is used on non stainless steel guns commonly.
                    >
                    > Anodizing is an electrochemical process which forms a hard porous metal oxide surface on the metal which can accept dyes to give various colors. To anodize aluminum it is placed in a fairly dilute sulfuric acid bath and DC current is passed through the metal and solution. Depending on the thickness of the anodizing, alloy anodized and exact process details you can get normal anodizing or hard anodizing which is a thicker coating. Undyed color can vary from silver to dark brown.
                    >
                    > Black, and other colored, spokes are painted or powder coated I believe and presumably go through some surface treatment to ensure best coating adhesion. Whatever the treatment is it apparently affects the work hardened surface of the spokes making them more fatigue failure susceptible. It could also be that they are subjected to heat, particularly if powder coating is the process used, as part of the coating process. This could also affect fatigue resistance.
                    >
                    > Sorry for the rant but I get tired of reading about anodizing steel. It seems to be a common misconception and incorrect use of terminology. Here is a link to the Wikipedia article on Anodizing for those interested.
                    >
                    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodizing
                    >
                    > Rich Wood
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Forbes Black
                    I m very glad, but not at all surprised, that everything worked out so well for you with Anthony! Cheers, - Forbes Black, Santa Clarita, CA Cycloculture - A
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jan 20, 2010
                      I'm very glad, but not at all surprised, that everything worked out so well for you with Anthony!

                      Cheers,

                      - Forbes Black, Santa Clarita, CA
                      Cycloculture - A Journal for Real World Cyclists
                      http://cycloculture.com/

                      --- On Wed, 1/20/10, will@... <will@...> wrote:

                      From: will@... <will@...>
                      Subject: Re: [Bicycle_Restoration] Re: Ordering a custom built wheel?
                      To: Bicycle_Restoration@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 3:07 PM

                       

                      Just wanted to say that I received my nexus wheel from Anthony at
                      Longleaf Cycles in North Carolina. It's beautiful. Sat it on the
                      truing stand and it's straight as an arrow, even after being tossed
                      around in a box all weekend. Anthony was super accommodating and very
                      responsive to email. He answered all my questions and built the wheel
                      to my spec. His work came out about $15 more than AEB and that's with a
                      lifetime warranty.

                      The Nexus 8-speed hub is beautiful. Shifting is silky smooth and it's
                      whisper quite. I'm very glad I decided to go with one for winter
                      commuting in Chicago. The Salsa Delgado Cross rim is nice too (though
                      wider than I expected.) Seems like a pretty bomb proof budget rim that
                      a lot of people are lacing to Nexus hubs nowadays.

                      Special thanks to Forbes who recommended Longleaf.

                      Regards,
                      Will

                      On 1/7/2010 2:33 PM, Rich wrote:
                      > The finish on black spokes is NOT anodizing as only Aluminum and Magnesium are commonly anodized and I have never heard of aluminum or magnesium bicycle spokes. The only non coating based steel coloring process I am aware of is Bluing which is used on non stainless steel guns commonly.
                      >
                      > Anodizing is an electrochemical process which forms a hard porous metal oxide surface on the metal which can accept dyes to give various colors. To anodize aluminum it is placed in a fairly dilute sulfuric acid bath and DC current is passed through the metal and solution. Depending on the thickness of the anodizing, alloy anodized and exact process details you can get normal anodizing or hard anodizing which is a thicker coating. Undyed color can vary from silver to dark brown.
                      >
                      > Black, and other colored, spokes are painted or powder coated I believe and presumably go through some surface treatment to ensure best coating adhesion. Whatever the treatment is it apparently affects the work hardened surface of the spokes making them more fatigue failure susceptible. It could also be that they are subjected to heat, particularly if powder coating is the process used, as part of the coating process. This could also affect fatigue resistance.
                      >
                      > Sorry for the rant but I get tired of reading about anodizing steel. It seems to be a common misconception and incorrect use of terminology. Here is a link to the Wikipedia article on Anodizing for those interested.
                      >
                      > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Anodizing
                      >
                      > Rich Wood
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

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