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born from above

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  • Bruce
    Born From Above John 3:3. born from above. The Greek text reads gennaō anothen (#1080 γεννάω; #509
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 5, 2012
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      Born From Above

      John 3:3. "born from above." The Greek text reads gennaō anothen (#1080 γεννάω; #509 ἄνωθεν), and literally means "born from above." Unfortunately, it is mistranslated as "born again" in most English versions, because that causes much confusion in Christianity.

      "Born from above" refers to the resurrection from the dead that will occur when God above puts His spirit in dead people who are then "born" from the grave. Saying, "born from the grave" is biblically accurate, because Isaiah 26:19 says that "the earth will
      give birth to her dead" (the KJV is not as clear as versions such as the ESV, NIV, or NASB, because it says the earth will "cast out" the dead, but the Hebrew word can refer to birth, so "give birth to" is clearer. Cp. Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew English Lexicon).

      This same truth about the dead coming up out of the ground is found in Ezek. 37:12-14 and Daniel 12:2. The Jews had no knowledge of what the New Testament calls the "New Birth" (1
      Pet. 1:3) or being "born again" (1 Peter 1:23). There was no "New Birth" mentioned in the Old Testament or the Gospels. From Genesis until the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2), God gave His gift of holy spirit only on a relatively few people, and when He did give it, He gave it conditionally, meaning that He could take it away. So, for example, God took His spirit from King Saul (1 Sam. 16:14), and after David sinned with Uriah and Bathsheba, David prayed God would not take it from him (Ps. 51:11).

      In contrast to the way God gave the gift of holy spirit during the OT and Gospel period, after the Day of Pentecost when the Christian Church started (Acts 2), God gave holy spirit in birth, and so the Epistles refer to this as the "New Birth." Today, Christians get "born again" when they believe. However, the New Birth was never mentioned in the Old Testament and therefore the Jews knew nothing of it.

      The New Birth is part of the Administration of Grace (Ephesians 3:2 and Ephesians 3:9). John 3:1-12 is not referring to the Christian New Birth. Jesus was speaking about a "birth from above" that the Jews were supposed to know about and
      understand. That is why Jesus chided Nicodemus, saying, "Are you the well-known teacher of Israel, and yet do not know these things?" (John 3:10). Thus we have to look in the Old Testament for the kind of birth Jesus spoke of, which is the birth of the body
      from the ground, which will happen at the resurrection (Isa. 26:19 (NIV); Ezek. 37:12-14; Dan. 12:2).

      Unfortunately, at the time of Christ, most Jews were ignorant about the resurrection from the dead and entrance into the Messianic Kingdom. The Sadducees did not even believe in a resurrection (Matt. 22:23). The Pharisees, on the other hand, of which Nicodemus was one, generally believed in immediate life after death, like the Greeks. So when Jesus told Nicodemus about being born from above, he did not understand what Jesus was saying. Nicodemus, who had read the Old Testament many times, should have known what Jesus was talking about. Instead, however, due to his theology, he was confused by the "birth" terminology.
      The Jews believed that God opened the womb allowing childbirth, or closed it causing barrenness (Gen. 20:18; 29:31; 30:2; 1 Sam. 1:5; Ps. 127:3; Isa. 66:9; Hos. 9:14). Thus, when Jesus spoke of being "born from above" Nicodemus would have correctly
      thought of Jesus' words in terms of "being born with the help of God." However, instead of correctly thinking that the dead are born from the ground by the power of God, he incorrectly thought about how a person could once again be born from his mother's
      womb with God's help. Jesus' words are actually quite simple, but they were completely outside any theology that Nicodemus understood, so he misinterpreted them. Jesus was saying that in order to "see" (i.e., enter) the Kingdom of God, the Messianic Kingdom that will be set up on earth (Dan. 2:44; 7:14), the dead will have to be resurrected by the power of God and then enter it.

      In summary, what Jesus said to Nicodemus is actually very simple: no one will see God's Messianic Kingdom unless he is "born from above," i.e., raised from the dead by God.

      Born of Water

      John 3:5. "born of water." This phrase refers to the birth of the person from his mother's womb.

      For Jesus to use the phrase "born of water" when speaking to Nicodemus, it must have meant something that he could understand without much commentary, because Jesus just said it, he did not explain it. Based on that, the best conclusion is that the words are literal, and should be understood literally. In the context in which Jesus was speaking, before the Church Age, in order to be saved a person had to be 1) born of water (when he is born from his mother) and 2) born of the spirit (when the earth gives birth to him: Ezek. 37:12-14; Isa. 26:19.)
    • CELSO, JR. BARRERA
      ________________________________ From: Bruce To: Biblical_Unitarian@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, 6 November 2012, 10:17 Subject:
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 14, 2012
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        From: Bruce <brucelyon1942@...>
        To: Biblical_Unitarian@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, 6 November 2012, 10:17
        Subject: [Biblical_Unitarian] born from above

         
        Born From Above

        John 3:3. "born from above." The Greek text reads genna&#333; anothen (#1080 &#947;&#949;&#957;&#957;&#940;&#969;; #509 &#7940;&#957;&#969;&#952;&#949;&#957;), and literally means "born from above." Unfortunately, it is mistranslated as "born again" in most English versions, because that causes much confusion in Christianity.
        Please, explain how you said it is mistranslated. Do you understand Greek text or you just heard this explanation from somebody else? Just explain in your shortest words because I don't really understand Greek text. Thanks.
        "Born from above" refers to the resurrection from the dead that will occur when God above puts His spirit in dead people who are then "born" from the grave. Saying, "born from the grave" is biblically accurate, because Isaiah 26:19 says that "the earth will
        give birth to her dead" (the KJV is not as clear as versions such as the ESV, NIV, or NASB, because it says the earth will "cast out" the dead, but the Hebrew word can refer to birth, so "give birth to" is clearer. Cp. Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew English Lexicon).

        This same truth about the dead coming up out of the ground is found in Ezek. 37:12-14 and Daniel 12:2. The Jews had no knowledge of what the New Testament calls the "New Birth" (1
        Pet. 1:3) or being "born again" (1 Peter 1:23). There was no "New Birth" mentioned in the Old Testament or the Gospels. From Genesis until the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2), God gave His gift of holy spirit only on a relatively few people, and when He did give it, He gave it conditionally, meaning that He could take it away. So, for example, God took His spirit from King Saul (1 Sam. 16:14), and after David sinned with Uriah and Bathsheba, David prayed God would not take it from him (Ps. 51:11).

        In contrast to the way God gave the gift of holy spirit during the OT and Gospel period, after the Day of Pentecost when the Christian Church started (Acts 2), God gave holy spirit in birth, and so the Epistles refer to this as the "New Birth." Today, Christians get "born again" when they believe. However, the New Birth was never mentioned in the Old Testament and therefore the Jews knew nothing of it.

        The New Birth is part of the Administration of Grace (Ephesians 3:2 and Ephesians 3:9). John 3:1-12 is not referring to the Christian New Birth. Jesus was speaking about a "birth from above" that the Jews were supposed to know about and
        understand. That is why Jesus chided Nicodemus, saying, "Are you the well-known teacher of Israel, and yet do not know these things?" (John 3:10). Thus we have to look in the Old Testament for the kind of birth Jesus spoke of, which is the birth of the body
        from the ground, which will happen at the resurrection (Isa. 26:19 (NIV); Ezek. 37:12-14; Dan. 12:2).

        Unfortunately, at the time of Christ, most Jews were ignorant about the resurrection from the dead and entrance into the Messianic Kingdom. The Sadducees did not even believe in a resurrection (Matt. 22:23). The Pharisees, on the other hand, of which Nicodemus was one, generally believed in immediate life after death, like the Greeks. So when Jesus told Nicodemus about being born from above, he did not understand what Jesus was saying. Nicodemus, who had read the Old Testament many times, should have known what Jesus was talking about. Instead, however, due to his theology, he was confused by the "birth" terminology.
        The Jews believed that God opened the womb allowing childbirth, or closed it causing barrenness (Gen. 20:18; 29:31; 30:2; 1 Sam. 1:5; Ps. 127:3; Isa. 66:9; Hos. 9:14). Thus, when Jesus spoke of being "born from above" Nicodemus would have correctly
        thought of Jesus' words in terms of "being born with the help of God." However, instead of correctly thinking that the dead are born from the ground by the power of God, he incorrectly thought about how a person could once again be born from his mother's
        womb with God's help. Jesus' words are actually quite simple, but they were completely outside any theology that Nicodemus understood, so he misinterpreted them. Jesus was saying that in order to "see" (i.e., enter) the Kingdom of God, the Messianic Kingdom that will be set up on earth (Dan. 2:44; 7:14), the dead will have to be resurrected by the power of God and then enter it.

        In summary, what Jesus said to Nicodemus is actually very simple: no one will see God's Messianic Kingdom unless he is "born from above," i.e., raised from the dead by God.

        Born of Water

        John 3:5. "born of water." This phrase refers to the birth of the person from his mother's womb.

        For Jesus to use the phrase "born of water" when speaking to Nicodemus, it must have meant something that he could understand without much commentary, because Jesus just said it, he did not explain it. Based on that, the best conclusion is that the words are literal, and should be understood literally. In the context in which Jesus was speaking, before the Church Age, in order to be saved a person had to be 1) born of water (when he is born from his mother) and 2) born of the spirit (when the earth gives birth to him: Ezek. 37:12-14; Isa. 26:19.)



      • Bruce
        Greetings: CELSO, JR. BARRERA If you will notice the beginning of the article there are a number of numbers which you can look up in Strong s Concordance
        Message 3 of 3 , Nov 14, 2012
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          Greetings: "CELSO, JR. BARRERA"

          If you will notice the beginning of the article there are a number of numbers which you can look up in Strong's Concordance that will show that John 3:3 should say "born from above" and not "born again", the rest of the article explains clearly what "born from above" really means from an old testament understanding. Note that is the only reference that was available at the time, the NT had not been written at the time Jesus is talking to Nicodemus. I suggest you look up the numbers sited from Strong's and read the entire article again after you have done your homework.

          > Born From Above
          >
          > John 3:3. "born from above." The Greek text reads gennaō anothen (#1080 γεννάω; #509 ἄνωθεν), and literally means "born from above." Unfortunately, it is mistranslated as "born again" in most English versions, because that causes much confusion in Christianity.
          >
          > Please, explain how you said it is mistranslated. Do you understand Greek text or you just heard this explanation from somebody else? Just explain in your shortest words because I don't really understand Greek text. Thanks.
          >
          > "Born from above" refers to the resurrection from the dead that will occur when God above puts His spirit in dead people who are then "born" from the grave. Saying, "born from the grave" is biblically accurate, because Isaiah 26:19 says that "the earth will
          > give birth to her dead" (the KJV is not as clear as versions such as the ESV, NIV, or NASB, because it says the earth will "cast out" the dead, but the Hebrew word can refer to birth, so "give birth to" is clearer. Cp. Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew English Lexicon).
          >
          > This same truth about the dead coming up out of the ground is found in Ezek. 37:12-14 and Daniel 12:2. The Jews had no knowledge of what the New Testament calls the "New Birth" (1
          > Pet. 1:3) or being "born again" (1 Peter 1:23). There was no "New Birth" mentioned in the Old Testament or the Gospels. From Genesis until the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2), God gave His gift of holy spirit only on a relatively few people, and when He did give it, He gave it conditionally, meaning that He could take it away. So, for example, God took His spirit from King Saul (1 Sam. 16:14), and after David sinned with Uriah and Bathsheba, David prayed God would not take it from him (Ps. 51:11).
          >
          > In contrast to the way God gave the gift of holy spirit during the OT and Gospel period, after the Day of Pentecost when the Christian Church started (Acts 2), God gave holy spirit in birth, and so the Epistles refer to this as the "New Birth." Today, Christians get "born again" when they believe. However, the New Birth was never mentioned in the Old Testament and therefore the Jews knew nothing of it.
          >
          > The New Birth is part of the Administration of Grace (Ephesians 3:2 and Ephesians 3:9). John 3:1-12 is not referring to the Christian New Birth. Jesus was speaking about a "birth from above" that the Jews were supposed to know about and
          > understand. That is why Jesus chided Nicodemus, saying, "Are you the well-known teacher of Israel, and yet do not know these things?" (John 3:10). Thus we have to look in the Old Testament for the kind of birth Jesus spoke of, which is the birth of the body
          > from the ground, which will happen at the resurrection (Isa. 26:19 (NIV); Ezek. 37:12-14; Dan. 12:2).
          >
          > Unfortunately, at the time of Christ, most Jews were ignorant about the resurrection from the dead and entrance into the Messianic Kingdom. The Sadducees did not even believe in a resurrection (Matt. 22:23). The Pharisees, on the other hand, of which Nicodemus was one, generally believed in immediate life after death, like the Greeks. So when Jesus told Nicodemus about being born from above, he did not understand what Jesus was saying. Nicodemus, who had read the Old Testament many times, should have known what Jesus was talking about. Instead, however, due to his theology, he was confused by the "birth" terminology.
          > The Jews believed that God opened the womb allowing childbirth, or closed it causing barrenness (Gen. 20:18; 29:31; 30:2; 1 Sam. 1:5; Ps. 127:3; Isa. 66:9; Hos. 9:14). Thus, when Jesus spoke of being "born from above" Nicodemus would have correctly
          > thought of Jesus' words in terms of "being born with the help of God." However, instead of correctly thinking that the dead are born from the ground by the power of God, he incorrectly thought about how a person could once again be born from his mother's
          > womb with God's help. Jesus' words are actually quite simple, but they were completely outside any theology that Nicodemus understood, so he misinterpreted them. Jesus was saying that in order to "see" (i.e., enter) the Kingdom of God, the Messianic Kingdom that will be set up on earth (Dan. 2:44; 7:14), the dead will have to be resurrected by the power of God and then enter it.
          >
          > In summary, what Jesus said to Nicodemus is actually very simple: no one will see God's Messianic Kingdom unless he is "born from above," i.e., raised from the dead by God.
          >
          > Born of Water
          >
          > John 3:5. "born of water." This phrase refers to the birth of the person from his mother's womb.
          >
          > For Jesus to use the phrase "born of water" when speaking to Nicodemus, it must have meant something that he could understand without much commentary, because Jesus just said it, he did not explain it. Based on that, the best conclusion is that the words are literal, and should be understood literally. In the context in which Jesus was speaking, before the Church Age, in order to be saved a person had to be 1) born of water (when he is born from his mother) and 2) born of the spirit (when the earth gives birth to him: Ezek. 37:12-14; Isa. 26:19.)
          >
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