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Re: God is more than only one

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  • Butros
    Hi Tim, my comments below. ... Pedro: Scriptures clearly say in John 10 24 The Jews gathered around him, saying, How long will you keep us in suspense? If you
    Message 1 of 289 , Jun 1, 2009
      Hi Tim, my comments below.
      >
      >
      > > > Tim H wrote:
      > > > You really should quit injecting your own ideas from your
      > > > own imagination into what Scripture says and stick to what
      > > > Scripture actually does say, because when you do that, you
      > > > are simply adding confusion rather than helping to promote
      > > > the plain and simple truth as it is written in Scripture.
      > > >
      > > > In Christ,
      > > > Tim H
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Pedro wrote:
      > > > Why would you assume that they are My Ideas?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Tim H:
      > > > Because I have seen you inject your own ideas that are
      > > > not in Scripture many times - like God is an Atom, as
      > > > just one of many examples.
      >
      >
      > > Pedro:
      > > I do not inject my own ideas, I am only trying to give
      > you a logical explanation How I perceive God as Trinity
      > yet the One as 'THE ATOM God'.
      >
      >
      > TIM H:
      > Yes, you are injecting your own ideas. You are even
      > admitting that you do by saying you are "trying to give
      > you a logical explanation How I perceive God..." which
      > is injecting your own ideas, i.e., how "you perceive"
      > God - ideas that come from your own imagination and not
      > from Scripture. "THE ATOM God" is certainly not from
      > Scripture. It's from your own imagination, and that is
      > a big problem in Christianity today. That's why there
      > is so many different beliefs. If Christians would focus
      > on trying to correctly discern what Scripture actually
      > does say instead of relying on their own imaginations
      > for what to believe, there would be much greater unity
      > and harmony among Christians today.

      Pedro:
      Scriptures clearly say in John 10 24
      The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly." 25 Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and the Father are ONE."

      I would assume here that Jesus is One and the Father is One: That makes TWO not One. I believe in Scripture to be the Truth, rather than your own imagination. You do not want to believe that TWO are ONE How can you believe that Three are One?

      >
      >
      > > > > Pedro:
      > > > > I believe in Scriptures as they are, You want me to
      > > > believe that Jesus is not God when Scriptures clearly
      > > > states the 'Ye are Gods'.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Tim H:
      > > > Scripture saying, "Ye are gods" has nothing whatsoever
      > > > to do with Jesus being God.
      >
      >
      >
      > > Pedro:
      > > It sure has! If you cannot believe that Jesus is God when scriptures clearly states that We are gods. Jesus is THe
      > King of those gods, the Christ, as the annointer, the
      > annointed and the annointment.
      >
      >
      > TIM H:
      > No, it does not! Again, you are relying on your own
      > imagination instead of paying close attention to what
      > Scripture actually does say. I have posted verses for
      > you showing what Scripture says about this numerous times
      > but it has no effect, because you ignore them in favor of
      > believing what you prefer to believe that comes from your
      > own imagination and not from Scripture.
      >
      > I know that citing the following verses again for you
      > will do no good, but here they are again:
      >
      > John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not
      > yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say
      > unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and
      > TO MY GOD, AND YOUR GOD.
      >
      > Jesus cannot be God, because Jesus himself HAS A GOD - the
      > same God we have - who is not Jesus - but is the Father
      > of Jesus. Jesus clearly identifies the Father as HIS GOD
      > and God cannot HAVE A GOD or He would not be God!
      >
      > John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might
      > know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom
      > Thou hast sent.
      >
      > Again Jesus clearly identifies the Father as THE ONLY
      > TRUE GOD - who is the God of Jesus Christ just the same
      > as He is our God - and makes the clear distinction between
      > God - the Sender - and Jesus Christ - the one sent.
      >
      > 1 Cor 8:6 ...to us there is but one God, the Father...
      > and one Lord Jesus Christ...
      >
      > Notice Paul makes the clear distinction between the
      > ONE GOD - who is the Father - just as Jesus clearly
      > identified - and ONE LORD - Jesus Christ. Jesus is
      > our Lord and Savior and the only way to the ONE TRUE
      > GOD, the Father, is through faith and belief in Jesus
      > as our Lord and Savior - but CLEARLY from just these
      > three verses I have cited for you - Jesus is not God!
      >
      > This is what Scripture actually says about it without
      > injecting our own imaginative ideas into it and causing
      > a great amount of confusion.
      >

      Pedro: John 10 31
      Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
      33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
      34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35 If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father."

      Do you understand How can Jesus and the Father be in Eachother?



      >
      > > > > Pedro:
      > > > > If Jesus is not God revealed in the Flesh Then WHO is
      > > > THis Christ you are waiting for?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Tim H:
      > > > Jesus is the anointed one, the Christ, the Messiah, the
      > > > son of the living God, the mediator between God and man,
      > > > our redeemer and savior - but he is NOT the Most High God,
      > > > YHWH, who is the Father AND GOD of Jesus Christ (Jn 20:17).
      >
      >
      >
      > > Pedro;
      > > Can you read my words. I do not believe that the Father
      > is the Son or that the Son is the Spirit. I just believe
      > that God was The Father First, then He became The Son, then
      > the Spirit However He is the HOLY One.
      > >
      > > It is like this, with the cycle of gods. they are fathers
      > first then sons then spirit, while the cycle of man as spirit
      > then son then father. Jesus lives both these cycles as Man
      > and as God.
      >
      >
      > TIM H:
      > Certainly I can read your words, and I can read the words in
      > Scripture and see that they are not in agreement with your
      > words. Again, as always, you inject your own ideas from your
      > own imagination instead of correctly discerning what Scripture
      > actually says about it.
      >
      >
      > > > > Pedro:
      > > > > The Christ reveals himself to those who He knows will be
      > > > his disciple?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Tim H:
      > > > The truth about Christ is revealed by God in Scripture
      > > > and the truth that is revealed is that Jesus Christ is
      > > > the son of God, our Lord and Savior, and his Father,
      > > > YHWH, is the One and Only Most High God who is over
      > > > all, including Jesus Christ, for God is not only our
      > > > heavenly Father, our God, he is the God of Jesus, too,
      > > > because He is the One and Only God of everyone.
      >
      >
      >
      > > Pedro:
      > > I can accept you statement above except that I do not know
      > who is the Father, for I believe in Scriptures that no one
      > has seen the Father except the Son who is Jesus the Christ.
      >
      >
      > TIM H:
      > There is nothing confusing about it. God, who is Spirit
      > (John 4:24) and who is invisible (Col 1:15) is the Father
      > of our Lord Jesus Christ, and Jesus is the son of God.

      Pedro:
      Well Jesus is the Son of the invisible Father, THerefore if you find Jesus there you will find His invisible Father, FOR certain 100%.

      >
      >
      >
      > > > > Pedro wrote:
      > > > > I am not the one who is adding confusion I am only
      > > > helping to promote those who are seeking to find the
      > > > simple Truth that God is The Father God is the Son and
      > > > God is Their Holy Spirt. Jesus is MY IDOL.
      > > > >
      > > > > I believe in the HUMAN IDOL. (the American idol?)
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Tim H:
      > > > You say, "I believe in Scriptures as they are" and then
      > > > post statements like this? This is absolutely incredible.
      >
      >
      >
      > > Pedro:
      > > What is incredible is your insistence to discredit others
      > who do not believe your Truth as being the universal Truth
      > rather than a version of the Truth as seen by You.
      >
      >
      > TIM H:
      > My intention is never to discredit other people. My intention
      > is to expose falsehood and promote the Truth of God as it is
      > written in Scripture, and part of that is to point out the
      > difference between what is written in Scripture and what is
      > not in Scripture but is only coming from your own imagination.

      Pedro:
      To expose falsehood? As though your imagination is not directing you to believe that You know the ONE Truth? John 10 7
      Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.

      In the Christ

      Pedro
      >
      > In Christ,
      > Tim H
      >
    • Sea
      Sorry Pedro, but I will never think of God as nothing - as zero. That place in the scheme of things belongs to the false gods. They are nothing/zero. Shalom
      Message 289 of 289 , Jun 12, 2009
        Sorry Pedro, but I will never think of God as nothing - as zero. That place
        in the scheme of things belongs to the false gods. They are nothing/zero.

        Shalom

        Sea


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Butros" <pashanab@...>
        To: <TruthorTradition@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:30 PM
        Subject: [TruthorTradition] Re: God is more than only one


        > --- In TruthorTradition@yahoogroups.com, "Sea" <seawife@...> wrote:
        >>
        >> TIM H: to Pedro
        >> Yes, you are injecting your own ideas. You are even
        >> admitting that you do by saying you are "trying to give
        >> you a logical explanation How I perceive God..." which
        >> is injecting your own ideas, i.e., how "you perceive"
        >> God - ideas that come from your own imagination and not
        >> from Scripture. "THE ATOM God" is certainly not from
        >> Scripture. It's from your own imagination, and that is
        >> a big problem in Christianity today. That's why there
        >> is so many different beliefs. If Christians would focus
        >> on trying to correctly discern what Scripture actually
        >> does say instead of relying on their own imaginations
        >> for what to believe, there would be much greater unity
        >> and harmony among Christians today.
        >>
        >> Sea: There is also the apple god, the egg god, the water god, and the
        >> rope
        >> god. Everything but the true God.
        >>
        >> Shalom
        >>
        >
        > Everything but?? Zerothing but THe One Real God.
        >
        > In the Christ
        >
        > Pedro
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
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