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Re: [TruthorTradition] Re: MDR - Two Arguments that destroy the Traditional MDR position that evidently

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  • Phillip Wilson
    sir; Once again I have to take the teaching of one of the world s leading scholars on first century life in Israel. Dr. Page s reputation and credentials are
    Message 1 of 349 , Mar 29, 2007

      Once again I have to take the teaching of one of the world's leading scholars on first century life in Israel. Dr. Page's reputation and credentials are impeccable and he says otherwise. Hopefully i will see him next week and I'll bring this up.

      As I said I'm sure he and his colleagues on the Israeli Antiquities Authority will be contacting you for advice and guidance.



      And without any qualifications, such as the one you claim being present
      either in scripture or the Talmud the assertion by Unger's is very
      enlightening, as I said before:

      "However Unger's also refers to the fact that the,"position of
      preacher was open to any competent member of the congregation. " The
      competency does not seem to be on the basis of their marital status.I
      would classify preaching as teaching."


      In TruthorTradition@ yahoogroups. com, Phillip Wilson <pclarkw@... > wrote:
      > You'll have to forgive me for not being alert in the morning...this
      quote says nothing about teaching or giving commentary it's only
      about reading from the Torah. Never mind the dating it doesn't matter
      this is not pertinent to the discussion.
      > Phillip

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    • Tim H
      Hi Phillip, my comments below. ... hard to come by and most people did not have vineyards. TIM H: Fresh water being hard to come by is part of my point. ...
      Message 349 of 349 , Apr 6, 2007
        Hi Phillip, my comments below.

        > Phillip wrote:
        > tim:
        > This was a very different culture. Fresh water was
        hard to come by and most people did not have vineyards.

        TIM H:
        Fresh water being hard to come by is part of my point.

        > Phillip:
        > The alcohol content was very low in most case 2-5%
        and they did not view wine as evil but as a gift from
        God. Babies drank milk and water however children would
        consume wine at meals and religious rituals. I have
        attended a couple of Seders where children and teenagers
        were allowed to drink from the four cups.
        > Phillip

        TIM H:
        Of course, I was not speaking of teenagers or even
        pre-teen adolescents. I was speaking specifically
        of infants and toddlers, and also very young children.
        Even if the alcohol content was very low, it does not
        take rocket science to figure out that alcohol is not
        desirable to give a very young child or an infant.

        The culture was different, of course, but they were
        not stupid, either. Not everyone would have access
        to grape juice, but those who did I'm sure discovered
        the delicious flavor and the benefits of drinking
        freshly pressed grape juice before it fermented.
        After all, it takes some time for grape juice to
        begin fermenting, and it was certainly drinkable
        before it fermented. You say babies drank milk
        and water, and I agree, but I'm also certain they
        drank fresh grape juice when it was available to
        them, too. The odds that they would not have
        discovered this are slim to none.

        In Christ,
        Tim H

        > > Tim H wrote:
        > > Hi Celia, I agree, I'm sure there were people who
        > > drank the grape juice soon after it was pressed
        > > before it fermented. In fact, I bet that babies
        > > and children drank it often. I don't think that
        > > they'd give fermented wine to babies and children.
        > >
        > > In Christ,
        > > Tim H
        > >
        > >
        > > > Celia wrote:
        > > > As soon as the grapes are mashed it is juice.
        > > Do you not think that anyone back then drank it
        > > as soon as it was mashed?
        > > >
        > > > I think people of old may have stored most but
        > > drank of some the freshly mashed juice too.
        > > >
        > > > (and what I am suggesting has nothing to do with Jesus.)
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Midnight wrote:
        > > > > I have always thought/said that Jesus drank wine
        > > and not grape juice. Many says that Jesus did not drink
        > > anything fermemted. There was no way that they could
        > > have keep grape juice from becoming fermented unless
        > > they threw it out. I doubt if they woul
        > d have done
        > > this since this was wasteful.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Phillip wrote:
        > > > > If you read my posts, I've pointed out that Essenes
        > > who were celebate were allowed to teach. However we know
        > > Jesus was not an Essene as there was much more to the
        > > monk lifle style than no sex. They ingested no grape
        > > products for example and we know that Jesus drank wine.
        > > Grape juice did not exist in the first century. The
        > > process to stop grapes from fermenting was invented
        > > in 1869 by Thomas Welch
        > > > >
        > > > > Phillip
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