- Having said that people are welcome to email me off list I have just discovered that my email has been bouncing messages!! As far as I am aware the problem isMessage 1 of 4 , Jan 1, 2007View SourceHaving said that people are welcome to email me off list I have just
discovered that my email has been bouncing messages!! As far as I am
aware the problem is fixed now.
- ... Hi Richard, Just a note on this. I ve over the last few months attended on-and-off a certain church that has a number of small groups that meet togetherMessage 2 of 4 , Jan 5, 2007View Source--- In TruthorTradition@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Hawkins"
> Hi, my name is Richard and I've been a Christian for about 17 years.
> I have recently been looking into the arguments for Biblical Church
> rather than traditional church.
> Let me first say in response to the welcome email that I received
> from George, thank you! I am someone who sees the truth as a belt
> that goes around me, than a baseball bat with which to beat my
> brothers and sister over the head with. Also the sword of the spirit
> is a weapon to help me stand against the devil and again not to use
> to chop at brothers and sisters!
> That said, the issue about Biblical Church is that the New Testament
> outlines quite a lot about church practice. Within the first century
> things began to be changed by "the Church Fathers." Later Constantine
> rubber stamped several of these changes to scripture in establishing
> the Roman Catholic Church. Since then faithful believers have turned
> to the Bible to return to a more scriptural church practice. For
> example, some of the more famous changes are: Adult Baptism as
> opposed to infant baptism, Not seeing the bread and wine as actually
> becoming flesh and blood and salvation through faith rather than
> It seems to me, through what I have been looking at, that there are
> still a few, quite fundamental things left. These are, that when the
> early church came together, the meeting was made up of spirit lead
> contributions from all of its members and not just a few lead by a
> professional (1 Cor 14:26)
> Another change that was made, and it is interesting that the
> Christmas thread is up. It was the cult of Mithrus who celebrated
> with bread and wine alone. The early church celebrated with a
> communion meal! The difference is the difference between a time of
> sombre introspection and a time of fellowship and sharing.
> Other differences include the role of elder/ pastor/ bishop as being
> one and the same person whereas the church fathers changed these into
> a hierarchical leadership. Elders were part of the meeting rather
> than professionals who ran the meeting.
> Decisions were made by consensus rather than elected committee. The
> Sunday "breaking of bread" Meeting was held in people's homes rather
> than a public building. Meetings needed to be in small numbers to
> enable people to feel free to share and for each to have time to
> share. Giving was given to those in real need rather than buildings
> and wages.
Just a note on this. I've over the last few months attended on-and-off
a certain church that has a number of small groups that meet together to
eat, worship, pray, and discuss scripture. I joined one such group, and
it has been probably the most spiritually uplifting thing I've
experienced in any church. It is far closer to what I would consider a
church should be than any building I've walked into and sat through a
Not making any particular statement--just encouraging more to partake in
small groups with believers.
As an aside, this church also has a full meal on Wednesday evenings
before its Wednesday night prayer meeting. And yes, the Wednesday night
prayer meetings are packed. There's really something to that fellowship
> For more detail please check out, http://www.house-church.org/
> and for some audio talks on the subject,
> http://www.ntrf.org/audio/index.php especially the "apostolic
> Tradition Part A" talk
> Now there is quite a lot there, and as far as I can see it is all
> supported from history and scripture. I am not trying to brow beat
> anyone into accepting this, but offering it, as a sower, for you to
> investigate for yourselves. Obviously, if this is too challenging to
> where you are, then I am happy to say that you are where God wants
> you to be for His greater purpose.
> For me it is an interesting discovery that the New Testament says so
> much about how the apostles established the church and history says
> so much about how this was changed. Obviously, it is down to our own
> personal view as to whether we consider we should follow scripture or
> If anyone has this revelation and happens to live in the south east
> of England, I would be happy for you to contact me off list!
- Hi Don, Thanks for that. That was my experience as well. I have sat in no end of services in churches, whether they are the jumping round and claping type orMessage 3 of 4 , Jan 6, 2007View SourceHi Don,
Thanks for that. That was my experience as well. I have sat in no end
of "services" in churches, whether they are the jumping round and
claping type or the more reflexctive type, but I have to say there is
a real sense of what Jesus was establishing when a group of believers
get together and bond in fellowship based on the teachings of
There is a danger that we have seen in teaching it from the point of
view of saying how good it is, because it can become pragmatic. That
is to say we do it because it works for us. In a post modern world
that is the song of the age! We do it first because it is what
scripture teaches, the bonus is, surprise, surpirse, doing it
according to scripture really blesses us with fellowship, freedom,
ministry and so on.
I have read a lot of church web sites that say that they take
scripture as the authority for what they believe and practice,
however, when they are shown this they are very reluctant to take
hold of it. I could easily get caught up in some kind of drum
banmging, but I would just encourage anyone to take a serious look at
Have a listen to Warren Wiersbe, he teaches here that there can be
different reasons why we have the faith we have. Anyone puzzled by
how I can be saying that "church" is doing something different to
scripture, Please check and make sure your faith is based on the
teachings of scripture and not somethings else.