Re: Bride of Christ (Sam / Ross)
I fell off my seat reading the first sentence(!)
But I agree that you've made a fine application of Matt. 25.
- Berean Joe
--- In TruthorTradition@yahoogroups.com, Cheryl Fisher <ncovercomers@...> wrote:
> Wow, Sea, that was good. I have been fed. God Bless, Cheryl
> Seawife J9Cal@... wrote: Joe: This language is so figurative, I am wary to derive doctrine from it, but it implies to me that the marriage of Christ and his church is a future event, perhaps after the rapture of the Church but before Jesus returns to earth in judgment. This would explain why the church is not described more overtly as the bride of Christ in scripture... at this point, the church is still in betrothal. He has gone away to prepare a place for her, and will return to claim his bride [John 14:3, Matt. 25:1-10], as was done by bridegrooms in the traditional cultures.
> Sea: We come about as close as it gets to agreeing here. Jesus describes how his return will be in the parable of the foolish virgins. And one must know a little about weddings in those days to understand it. The groom comes for his betrothed and brings her back to his father's house for the wedding. That is how traditional weddings happened. However, in the parable the groom is delayed and the bride must be patient but also ready and waiting. But he does eventually come. I also see this as the rapture of the righteous but I don't believe in a pre-tribulation secret rapture. The fact that the virgins also see the groom coming those who were ready and those who were not shows me that the "rapture" is not something that happens off in a corner and goes unnoticed [there is also other Biblical evidence to support my belief]. Also, because brides were always taken to the groom's father's house for the wedding supper, I am led to believe that the righteous spend
> some time in heaven before the earth is cleansed and made new for their inheritance. Earth is definitely NOT the Father's house.
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- Hi Sea, thanks for your response.
My comments below.
> Tim H wrote:virgins states that the bride is taken to the groom's
> Hi Sea, I agree with most of what you wrote here,
> but the thousand year reign, known as the Millenial
> Kingdom, is on earth, not in heaven.
> Sea: How can that be when the parable of the foolish
father's house? Also, Revelation shows the bride [New
Jerusalem] returning to earth after the thousand years.
Why do the resurrected dead and the translated alive
meet Jesus in the air? Are they going up just to
immediately come down again? Lots of questions
for ya Tim.
I don't believe the parable of the foolish virgins is
a prophecy of what is going to happen in the end time.
I believe it is simply a parable for teaching us to be
prepared for the return of Jesus, summed up here:
Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour
wherein the son of man cometh. (Matt 25:13)
I don't see in this parable in Matt 25:1-13, where it says
anything about the bride being taken to the father's house.
What I read is, "...they that were ready went in with him
to the marriage: and the door was shut" (verse 10) again
emphasizing the importance of being prepared.
The bottom line is simply that those virgins who were
prepared were wise, and those who were unprepared were
foolish. I see no reason for reading anything more into
this parable, because after all, it is immediately followed
by another parable of the talents, which was also another
parable for teaching a lesson. Jesus used parables for
teaching lessons, and that's precisely what he was doing.
In fact, if you keep reading in Matthew 25 here is what
Matt 25:31 When the son of man shall come in his glory,
and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit
upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall
be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them
one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep
from the goats.
Notice it says that when Jesus returns with all the
holy angels and sits upon his throne, before him shall
be gathered ALL NATIONS. This happens ON EARTH, because
that's where all the nations are located---not in heaven.
I also don't see in Revelation where it says the New
Jerusalem comes down from heaven after the 1,000 years.
In Rev 3 it says in verse 12, "Him that overcometh will
I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go
no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God,
and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem,
which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will
write upon him my new name."
Then in verse 21 it says, "To him that overcometh will
I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also
overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."
So, in Rev 3 (in view of Matt 25:31-32) we see that Jesus
returns to the earth, sets up his Kingdom, sits on his
throne, and those that have overcome the world will have
the name of God, the name of the city of God, and the Lord's
new name written upon them, and they will be granted to sit
on the throne of Jesus on earth---not in heaven---and will
reign with him a thousand years (Rev 20:4-6).
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired,
satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall
go out to deceive THE NATIONS which are in the four
quarters OF THE EARTH...
Where is all this going to happen? On earth---not in heaven.
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests:
and we shall reign ON THE EARTH.
What does Paul say?
1 Cor 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall JUDGE the
WORLD? and if the WORLD shall be JUDGED by you, are ye
unworthy to JUDGE the smallest matters?
Here Paul is referring to the fact that the saints will
reign with Christ on the earth---not in heaven.
The only other place that refers to the New Jerusalem is
in Rev 21, and I do not see that it says after the 1,000
years here, either.
As to these questions, "Why do the resurrected dead and
the translated alive meet Jesus in the air? Are they
going up just to immediately come down again?"
I have two possible answers. First, in those days it was
customary that when an important person was coming, to
go and meet him outside of the city before he actually
arrived, and accompany him the rest of the way. This
was a very common, and widely practiced custom. So,
I believe that could be why we would meet Jesus in the
air as he is returning to the earth.
The other possibility is that those who are resurrected
from the dead, and those who are still alive changed,
who all meet him in the air, could very likely go back
to heaven with him for a period of time, returning later
with him as part of his army along with the angels at
his second coming.
I have read this being taught as the pre-tribulation
rapture, and they would return with Jesus to heaven for
safe keeping during the tribulation period on earth. I
don't know that I can accept this or not, since the idea
of the tribulation period is so vague in Scripture as to
how long it will last and when the saints are actually
raptured---before, during, or after the tribulation.
As I'm sure you are aware, there is a great deal of
disagreement among Christians on this subject, and I
don't believe anyone can really be certain who is right.
But the main point about this second alternative is that
there is no solid evidence in Scripture that supports the
notion that the saints will be raptured to heaven for a
1,000 year period, and no evidence that the 1,000 year
reign will be in heaven rather than on the earth. In
fact, I believe the bulk of the evidence is that the
1,000 year reign will definitely be on the earth.
Love in Christ,