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Re: Bride of Christ (Sam / Ross)

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  • Joe Gill
    I fell off my seat reading the first sentence(!) But I agree that you ve made a fine application of Matt. 25. - Berean Joe ... wary to derive doctrine from it,
    Message 1 of 368 , Apr 1, 2006

      I fell off my seat reading the first sentence(!)

      But I agree that you've made a fine application of Matt. 25.

      - Berean Joe

      --- In TruthorTradition@yahoogroups.com, Cheryl Fisher <ncovercomers@...> wrote:

      > Wow, Sea, that was good. I have been fed. God Bless, Cheryl
      > Seawife J9Cal@... wrote: Joe: This language is so figurative, I am wary to derive doctrine from it, but it implies to me that the marriage of Christ and his church is a future event, perhaps after the rapture of the Church but before Jesus returns to earth in judgment. This would explain why the church is not described more overtly as the bride of Christ in scripture... at this point, the church is still in betrothal. He has gone away to prepare a place for her, and will return to claim his bride [John 14:3, Matt. 25:1-10], as was done by bridegrooms in the traditional cultures.
      > Sea: We come about as close as it gets to agreeing here. Jesus describes how his return will be in the parable of the foolish virgins. And one must know a little about weddings in those days to understand it. The groom comes for his betrothed and brings her back to his father's house for the wedding. That is how traditional weddings happened. However, in the parable the groom is delayed and the bride must be patient but also ready and waiting. But he does eventually come. I also see this as the rapture of the righteous but I don't believe in a pre-tribulation secret rapture. The fact that the virgins also see the groom coming – those who were ready and those who were not – shows me that the "rapture" is not something that happens off in a corner and goes unnoticed [there is also other Biblical evidence to support my belief]. Also, because brides were always taken to the groom's father's house for the wedding supper, I am led to believe that the righteous spend
      > some time in heaven before the earth is cleansed and made new for their inheritance. Earth is definitely NOT the Father's house.
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    • Tim H
      Hi Sea, thanks for your response. My comments below. ... virgins states that the bride is taken to the groom s father s house? Also, Revelation shows the
      Message 368 of 368 , Apr 8, 2006
        Hi Sea, thanks for your response.
        My comments below.

        > Tim H wrote:
        > Hi Sea, I agree with most of what you wrote here,
        > but the thousand year reign, known as the Millenial
        > Kingdom, is on earth, not in heaven.
        > Sea: How can that be when the parable of the foolish
        virgins states that the bride is taken to the groom's
        father's house? Also, Revelation shows the bride [New
        Jerusalem] returning to earth after the thousand years.
        Why do the resurrected dead and the translated alive
        meet Jesus in the air? Are they going up just to
        immediately come down again? Lots of questions
        for ya Tim.

        TIM H:
        I don't believe the parable of the foolish virgins is
        a prophecy of what is going to happen in the end time.
        I believe it is simply a parable for teaching us to be
        prepared for the return of Jesus, summed up here:

        Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour
        wherein the son of man cometh. (Matt 25:13)

        I don't see in this parable in Matt 25:1-13, where it says
        anything about the bride being taken to the father's house.
        What I read is, "...they that were ready went in with him
        to the marriage: and the door was shut" (verse 10) again
        emphasizing the importance of being prepared.

        The bottom line is simply that those virgins who were
        prepared were wise, and those who were unprepared were
        foolish. I see no reason for reading anything more into
        this parable, because after all, it is immediately followed
        by another parable of the talents, which was also another
        parable for teaching a lesson. Jesus used parables for
        teaching lessons, and that's precisely what he was doing.

        In fact, if you keep reading in Matthew 25 here is what
        you find:

        Matt 25:31 When the son of man shall come in his glory,
        and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit
        upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall
        be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them
        one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep
        from the goats.

        Notice it says that when Jesus returns with all the
        holy angels and sits upon his throne, before him shall
        be gathered ALL NATIONS. This happens ON EARTH, because
        that's where all the nations are located---not in heaven.

        I also don't see in Revelation where it says the New
        Jerusalem comes down from heaven after the 1,000 years.
        In Rev 3 it says in verse 12, "Him that overcometh will
        I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go
        no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God,
        and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem,
        which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will
        write upon him my new name."

        Then in verse 21 it says, "To him that overcometh will
        I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also
        overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

        So, in Rev 3 (in view of Matt 25:31-32) we see that Jesus
        returns to the earth, sets up his Kingdom, sits on his
        throne, and those that have overcome the world will have
        the name of God, the name of the city of God, and the Lord's
        new name written upon them, and they will be granted to sit
        on the throne of Jesus on earth---not in heaven---and will
        reign with him a thousand years (Rev 20:4-6).

        Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired,
        satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall
        go out to deceive THE NATIONS which are in the four
        quarters OF THE EARTH...

        Where is all this going to happen? On earth---not in heaven.

        Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests:
        and we shall reign ON THE EARTH.

        What does Paul say?

        1 Cor 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall JUDGE the
        WORLD? and if the WORLD shall be JUDGED by you, are ye
        unworthy to JUDGE the smallest matters?

        Here Paul is referring to the fact that the saints will
        reign with Christ on the earth---not in heaven.

        The only other place that refers to the New Jerusalem is
        in Rev 21, and I do not see that it says after the 1,000
        years here, either.

        As to these questions, "Why do the resurrected dead and
        the translated alive meet Jesus in the air? Are they
        going up just to immediately come down again?"

        I have two possible answers. First, in those days it was
        customary that when an important person was coming, to
        go and meet him outside of the city before he actually
        arrived, and accompany him the rest of the way. This
        was a very common, and widely practiced custom. So,
        I believe that could be why we would meet Jesus in the
        air as he is returning to the earth.

        The other possibility is that those who are resurrected
        from the dead, and those who are still alive changed,
        who all meet him in the air, could very likely go back
        to heaven with him for a period of time, returning later
        with him as part of his army along with the angels at
        his second coming.

        I have read this being taught as the pre-tribulation
        rapture, and they would return with Jesus to heaven for
        safe keeping during the tribulation period on earth. I
        don't know that I can accept this or not, since the idea
        of the tribulation period is so vague in Scripture as to
        how long it will last and when the saints are actually
        raptured---before, during, or after the tribulation.
        As I'm sure you are aware, there is a great deal of
        disagreement among Christians on this subject, and I
        don't believe anyone can really be certain who is right.

        But the main point about this second alternative is that
        there is no solid evidence in Scripture that supports the
        notion that the saints will be raptured to heaven for a
        1,000 year period, and no evidence that the 1,000 year
        reign will be in heaven rather than on the earth. In
        fact, I believe the bulk of the evidence is that the
        1,000 year reign will definitely be on the earth.

        Love in Christ,
        Tim H
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