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Re: Who wrote the book of Revelation?

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  • James
    That is a nice circular argument. But it does not prove that the Apostle John received that revelation or that he penned The Apocalypse of Saint John the
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 1, 2010
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      That is a nice circular argument. But it does not prove that the Apostle
      John received that revelation or that he penned The Apocalypse of Saint
      John the Divine otherwise called Revelation. In order to believe that he
      did so, you must believe that he did so, while in his nineties. You also
      need to believe that Jesus rendered a false prophecy. For he clearly
      indicated that both John and his brother James were to be martyred….

      Mark 10:32: And he took again the twelve, and began to tell them what
      things should happen to him, 33 Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem;
      and the Son of man shall be delivered to the chief priests, and to the
      scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to
      the Gentiles: 34 And they shall mock him, and shall whip him, and shall
      spit on him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.
      35 And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come to him, saying, Master,
      we would that you should do for us whatever we shall desire. 36 And he
      said to them, What would you that I should do for you? 37 They said to
      him, Grant to us that we may sit, one on your right hand, and the other
      on your left hand, in your glory. 38 But Jesus said to them, You know
      not what you ask: can you drink of the cup that I drink of? and be
      baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? 39 And they said to
      him, We can. And Jesus said to them, You shall indeed drink of the cup
      that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized with shall you
      be baptized: 40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not
      my to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared. 41
      And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James
      and John. 42 But Jesus called them to him, and said to them, You know
      that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise
      lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority on them. 43
      But so shall it not be among you: but whoever will be great among you,
      shall be your minister: 44 And whoever of you will be the most chief,
      shall be servant of all. 45 For even the Son of man came not to be
      ministered to, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

      The Apostles John and James were martyred before the Romans destroyed
      Jerusalem…All Second Century authorities who supposedly knew
      anything about the how and when of Revelation's creation suggest that it
      was written at the end of the First Century or the beginning of the
      Second Century. Either way, John had been dead for at least four decades
      by the time that it was written.

      JT







      --- In BibleProphecy@yahoogroups.com, "BibleProphecyOnTheWeb"
      <bibleprophecy_ndbpsa@...> wrote:
      >
      > Re.10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy AGAIN before many
      peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
      > ___________________
      > >
      > > On what do you base your contention that the Apostle John must
      prophecy again?
      > > JT
      > >
      >
      > > --- In BibleProphecy@yahoogroups.com, "BibleProphecyOnTheWeb"
      <bibleprophecy_ndbpsa@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I disagree. John must prophesy AGAIN. John will prophesy the
      end-time message of the book of Revelation to every nation, kindred,
      tongue, and people. Then it will be said that the gospel, in its
      entirety, will have been preached throughout the entire world.
      > > >
      > > > Patricia
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In BibleProphecy@yahoogroups.com, "James" <senecharnix@>
      wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > The Apostle John did not write anything attributed to him. It is
      all but certain the epistles of John were penned by John the Presbyter.
      The writer(s) of The Gospel According to John was someone who was highly
      Hellenized and lived long after the Apostle John had been martyred. In
      fact, the good apostle was dead before Revelations was written, even if
      it might have been penned during Nero's reign. The Apostle John was
      martyred at the same time that his brother James was martyred. Phillip
      of Snide definitely thought so and nobody has ever been able to disprove
      his contentions. Most likely, Acts was altered to accommodate the love
      affair that early Church fathers had with the idea that the Apostle John
      had lived up to the impossible legends glorifying him. Jesus had
      prophesied that both John and his brother James would be martyred (Mark
      10:39). If John had survived the martyrdom of his brother, why is there
      no mention of where he went or how he had managed to avoid being
      martyred? Why did not Herod seek to have him killed instead of only
      going after Peter? Why is there no historical mention of John by
      contemporaries after the missionary episode recorded in the eighth
      chapter of Acts? The only subsequent reference to him was that his
      brother had been martyred in the twelfth chapter of Acts. He then
      disappears from view. If he was such a mighty member of the Church after
      that, why is there no historical evidence of him demonstrating that he
      was here or there doing this or that? There are only unsubstantiated
      legends, which arose long after the end of the Church's third
      generation. He was supposedly entombed in Ephesus. But there is no
      archeological evidence to be found proving it. Seems to me that someone
      would have built a shrine over his tomb since he was allegedly such a
      fantastic champion of the Church. Why did his supposed disciples neglect
      to make sure his remains were properly honored? Even if they had fled
      ahead of persecution, they could have either returned later or made
      arrangements for their disciples to return to Ephesus to honor John with
      a shrine.
      > > > > Truly, John was a fine fellow and undoubtedly a worthy apostle.
      But his legend outshines the truth that was his real life….
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In BibleProphecy@yahoogroups.com, "bgnewname" <bgnewname@>
      wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > What you have said here is so very true as much of this book
      has been for our day and time. God is indeed giving us much needed
      insight on the past, present and future, and we Bible Students need all
      the help we can get to have the insight of the events we see happening.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Each generation must have persons like yourself to help in
      this task; and I just want to thank you for your part in such good work.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I hope to post again soon as I am also in the work of sharing
      what I feel is the message of the Good News of God's Heavenly Kingdom.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > BG
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In BibleProphecy@yahoogroups.com, "BibleProphecyOnTheWeb"
      <bibleprophecy_ndbpsa@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I believe that the Apostle John IS the author of the Book of
      Revelation.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > John must prophesy AGAIN before many peoples, and nations,
      and tongues, and kings (Re.10:11 below) the end-time prophetic little
      book message.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Revelation's little book prophecy is the prophecy the two
      witnesses will prophesy for a thousand two hundred and threescore days
      (Re.11:3 below) prior to the tribulation under the beasts of Revelation
      chapter 13.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > THEN IT CAN BE SAID that the entire gospel will have been
      preached throughout the entire world (Mk.16:15 below).
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Mk.16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world,
      and preach the gospel to every creature.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Re.10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy AGAIN
      before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings (Re.11:3
      below).
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Re.11:3 And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and
      they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days,
      clothed in sackcloth.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Re.11:7 And when they shall have FINISHED their testimony
      (Re.11:3 above), the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit
      shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Patricia ©
      >





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • BibleProphecyOnTheWeb
      The REVELATION of Saint John the Divine - CHAPTER 1:1 - THE Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 1, 2010
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        The REVELATION of Saint John the Divine - CHAPTER 1:1 - THE Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.

        God's servant John is the Apostle John, Saint John the Divine.

        When one is chosen to do a work for God, old age would not be any impediment to do the work purposed by God.


        Patricia


        --- In BibleProphecy@yahoogroups.com, "James" <senecharnix@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > That is a nice circular argument. But it does not prove that the Apostle
        > John received that revelation or that he penned The Apocalypse of Saint
        > John the Divine otherwise called Revelation. In order to believe that he
        > did so, you must believe that he did so, while in his nineties. You also
        > need to believe that Jesus rendered a false prophecy. For he clearly
        > indicated that both John and his brother James were to be martyred….
        >
        > Mark 10:32: And he took again the twelve, and began to tell them what
        > things should happen to him, 33 Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem;
        > and the Son of man shall be delivered to the chief priests, and to the
        > scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to
        > the Gentiles: 34 And they shall mock him, and shall whip him, and shall
        > spit on him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.
        > 35 And James and John, the sons of Zebedee, come to him, saying, Master,
        > we would that you should do for us whatever we shall desire. 36 And he
        > said to them, What would you that I should do for you? 37 They said to
        > him, Grant to us that we may sit, one on your right hand, and the other
        > on your left hand, in your glory. 38 But Jesus said to them, You know
        > not what you ask: can you drink of the cup that I drink of? and be
        > baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? 39 And they said to
        > him, We can. And Jesus said to them, You shall indeed drink of the cup
        > that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized with shall you
        > be baptized: 40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not
        > my to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared. 41
        > And when the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James
        > and John. 42 But Jesus called them to him, and said to them, You know
        > that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise
        > lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority on them. 43
        > But so shall it not be among you: but whoever will be great among you,
        > shall be your minister: 44 And whoever of you will be the most chief,
        > shall be servant of all. 45 For even the Son of man came not to be
        > ministered to, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
        >
        > The Apostles John and James were martyred before the Romans destroyed
        > Jerusalem…All Second Century authorities who supposedly knew
        > anything about the how and when of Revelation's creation suggest that it
        > was written at the end of the First Century or the beginning of the
        > Second Century. Either way, John had been dead for at least four decades
        > by the time that it was written.
        >
        > JT
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In BibleProphecy@yahoogroups.com, "BibleProphecyOnTheWeb"
        > <bibleprophecy_ndbpsa@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Re.10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy AGAIN before many
        > peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
        > > ___________________
        > > >
        > > > On what do you base your contention that the Apostle John must
        > prophecy again?
        > > > JT
        > > >
        > >
        > > > --- In BibleProphecy@yahoogroups.com, "BibleProphecyOnTheWeb"
        > <bibleprophecy_ndbpsa@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > I disagree. John must prophesy AGAIN. John will prophesy the
        > end-time message of the book of Revelation to every nation, kindred,
        > tongue, and people. Then it will be said that the gospel, in its
        > entirety, will have been preached throughout the entire world.
        > > > >
        > > > > Patricia
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In BibleProphecy@yahoogroups.com, "James" <senecharnix@>
        > wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > The Apostle John did not write anything attributed to him. It is
        > all but certain the epistles of John were penned by John the Presbyter.
        > The writer(s) of The Gospel According to John was someone who was highly
        > Hellenized and lived long after the Apostle John had been martyred. In
        > fact, the good apostle was dead before Revelations was written, even if
        > it might have been penned during Nero's reign. The Apostle John was
        > martyred at the same time that his brother James was martyred. Phillip
        > of Snide definitely thought so and nobody has ever been able to disprove
        > his contentions. Most likely, Acts was altered to accommodate the love
        > affair that early Church fathers had with the idea that the Apostle John
        > had lived up to the impossible legends glorifying him. Jesus had
        > prophesied that both John and his brother James would be martyred (Mark
        > 10:39). If John had survived the martyrdom of his brother, why is there
        > no mention of where he went or how he had managed to avoid being
        > martyred? Why did not Herod seek to have him killed instead of only
        > going after Peter? Why is there no historical mention of John by
        > contemporaries after the missionary episode recorded in the eighth
        > chapter of Acts? The only subsequent reference to him was that his
        > brother had been martyred in the twelfth chapter of Acts. He then
        > disappears from view. If he was such a mighty member of the Church after
        > that, why is there no historical evidence of him demonstrating that he
        > was here or there doing this or that? There are only unsubstantiated
        > legends, which arose long after the end of the Church's third
        > generation. He was supposedly entombed in Ephesus. But there is no
        > archeological evidence to be found proving it. Seems to me that someone
        > would have built a shrine over his tomb since he was allegedly such a
        > fantastic champion of the Church. Why did his supposed disciples neglect
        > to make sure his remains were properly honored? Even if they had fled
        > ahead of persecution, they could have either returned later or made
        > arrangements for their disciples to return to Ephesus to honor John with
        > a shrine.
        > > > > > Truly, John was a fine fellow and undoubtedly a worthy apostle.
        > But his legend outshines the truth that was his real life….
        > > > > >
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In BibleProphecy@yahoogroups.com, "bgnewname" <bgnewname@>
        > wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > What you have said here is so very true as much of this book
        > has been for our day and time. God is indeed giving us much needed
        > insight on the past, present and future, and we Bible Students need all
        > the help we can get to have the insight of the events we see happening.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Each generation must have persons like yourself to help in
        > this task; and I just want to thank you for your part in such good work.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > I hope to post again soon as I am also in the work of sharing
        > what I feel is the message of the Good News of God's Heavenly Kingdom.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > BG
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In BibleProphecy@yahoogroups.com, "BibleProphecyOnTheWeb"
        > <bibleprophecy_ndbpsa@> wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I believe that the Apostle John IS the author of the Book of
        > Revelation.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > John must prophesy AGAIN before many peoples, and nations,
        > and tongues, and kings (Re.10:11 below) the end-time prophetic little
        > book message.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Revelation's little book prophecy is the prophecy the two
        > witnesses will prophesy for a thousand two hundred and threescore days
        > (Re.11:3 below) prior to the tribulation under the beasts of Revelation
        > chapter 13.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > THEN IT CAN BE SAID that the entire gospel will have been
        > preached throughout the entire world (Mk.16:15 below).
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Mk.16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world,
        > and preach the gospel to every creature.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Re.10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy AGAIN
        > before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings (Re.11:3
        > below).
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Re.11:3 And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and
        > they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days,
        > clothed in sackcloth.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Re.11:7 And when they shall have FINISHED their testimony
        > (Re.11:3 above), the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit
        > shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Patricia ©
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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