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Re: BibleProphecy 17 Rev

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  • safswan
    Rodney, It matters not who rules the world and that also is debatable but what matters is the source of the religious beliefs which are called babylonian.There
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 30, 2007
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      It matters not who rules the world and that also is debatable but what matters is the source of the religious beliefs which are called babylonian.There is no doubt about this and that is the history I am asking you to research.


      Rodney <boogerred_2001@...> wrote:
      I rely by reversing the statement.
      If one understands the world History one will understand who Controls
      the world.

      Jews Control the Money .
      Known fact.

      The Powers of this world do not control the world there is a power
      that sets the Worlds economy and this group meats every three years.

      If one does know the History of Israel one knows that Israel Holds the
      Cabala the one from Babylon to an higher level than the one written in

      The only reason Rome has The mysteries in their Belief system is from

      Go spend 20 dollars and buy Two Babylon/s there is enough History
      there for a Novice.

      I do not agree with his Rome the Harlot and or anti Christ. But he
      does have a lot of History.

      Jerusalem the earthly Jerusalem is on Seven Hills and It does control
      the world Powers.

      Or is the USA and England really not in Bed with Her.

      We have Spent Billions upon Billions every year to Uphold her.
      She is the center Focus of the Whole world and has been for Nearly a
      Hundred years Now.

      You need to Go study How Israel came into the Land today.

      --- In BibleProphecy@yahoogroups.com, safswan <safswan@...> wrote:
      > Rodney,
      > Get into the history somemore.The knowledge of the mysteries of
      the cabala came from the Israelite's sojourn in Babylon.The fact that
      she is called babylon shows her origin.The people of Israel,of
      course,,just like all others, as they practiced the things of babylon
      can be considered to be daughters.However they were not the source and
      hence cannot be the Mother of Harlots.
      > And Jerusalem never ruled the world.
      > As I said in a previous post:
      > "Why are similar doctrines, symbols and practices found in the
      religions of the Americas, China, India, Japan and Africa prior to any
      Roman influence? Babylon ruled the world as the head of gold or first
      beast of Daniel 2, 7 (see Daniel's Visions I & II). Through its trade
      and commerce, Babylon spread her science, art, religion and beliefs
      over a large part of the ancient world. Hence, the features and
      personalities of the Babylonian religion are seen in the various
      cultures of the world but they may have variations and the names of
      the personalities may be changed.
      > Large volumes of literature were written by priests and stored in
      libraries and prescribed in detail the ceremonies of worship, forms of
      magic, divination and astrology. These were the mysteries of the
      Babylonian religion. They eventually came to be preserved in a temple
      at PERGAMOS or PERGAMUM. In 133 B.C. these mysteries were transferred
      to Rome and Rome came to be called New Babylon, as it became the
      center of the practice of the Babylonian religion."
      > The mysteries were not sourced from Israel but came to Rome and
      other places by other means.
      > safswan.
      > Rodney <boogerred_2001@...> wrote:
      > Safswan.
      > If one looks at the System and the Babylon involved in the Whore sytem
      > one will go back to Israel.
      > the Mysteries are headed by none other than the Israel cabala lovers
      > that came out of Babylon.
      > Where did Rome get this?
      > From her mother Israel.
      > Further more all Rome has done is emulate her mother.
      > Jerusalem sits on Seven hills also.
      > Cabala and The Jews go hand in hand with the Mysteries.
      > Rome indeed has a lot of deception but we need to look at where she
      > got it and how she got it.
      > From her mother.
      > Amen
      > rodj
      > -- In BibleProphecy@yahoogroups.com, safswan <safswan@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > SUB-TOPIC: IDENTIFYING BABYLON -Part 2(Revelation 17)
      > >
      > > Who is Babylon and who are her daughters?
      > >
      > > It is normally taught that the Roman Church is the mother or
      > Babylon and that the Protestant Churches that came out of her are
      > daughters i.e. the harlots. However, if the world situation is
      > considered, then this view must be modified.
      > >
      > > Where did the Roman doctrines come from?
      > >
      > > Why are similar doctrines, symbols and practices found in the
      > religions of the Americas, China, India, Japan and Africa prior to any
      > Roman influence? Babylon ruled the world as the head of gold or first
      > beast of Daniel 2, 7 (see Daniel's Visions I & II). Through its trade
      > and commerce, Babylon spread her science, art, religion and beliefs
      > over a large part of the ancient world. Hence, the features and
      > personalities of the Babylonian religion are seen in the various
      > cultures of the world but they may have variations and the names of
      > the personalities may be changed.
      > >
      > > Large volumes of literature were written by priests and stored in
      > libraries and prescribed in detail the ceremonies of worship, forms of
      > magic, divination and astrology. These were the mysteries of the
      > Babylonian religion. They eventually came to be preserved in a temple
      > at PERGAMOS or PERGAMUM. In 133 B.C. these mysteries were transferred
      > to Rome and Rome came to be called New Babylon, as it became the
      > center of the practice of the Babylonian religion.
      > >
      > > It is highly possible that officials of the Roman Church are in
      > control of these mysteries but the Roman Church, being made up of
      > pagan and Christian doctrines and coming into existence long after the
      > Babylonian doctrines had gone worldwide, could not be the mother of
      > harlots i.e. Babylon the great. The Roman Church may be a big sister
      > but the mother, Babylon the great, is the mysteries and wherever the
      > pure form is stored and practised. The system described by the
      > mysteries is the source and hence mother of all forms of the religion
      > seen worldwide.
      > >
      > > Here are some of the features of the Babylonian religion as is
      > seen in the religions of the world:
      > >
      > > (i) The fertility rite is one of the most prominent features of
      > the Babylonian religion and one aspect of it is most popular. This is
      > the mother/child cult, which features a mother and child combination,
      > which is worshipped. Originally known as ISHTAR or as some say
      > SEMIRAMIS (mother goddess) and TAMMUZ (child god) in Babylon, they
      > were otherwise identified in other nations:
      > >
      > > Country/
      > > Mother/
      > > Child
      > > Egypt/
      > > Isis/
      > > Horus
      > > India/
      > > Isi/
      > > Iswara
      > > Asia/
      > > Cybele/
      > > Dionysus
      > > (Or Deosius) Greece/
      > > Aphrodite/
      > > Eros
      > > Rome/
      > > Venus/
      > > Cupid
      > >
      > >
      > > China, Japan and other parts of Africa also exhibit this
      > mother/child worship, which is depicted as Mary and baby Jesus by the
      > Roman Church. Even ancient Israel was influenced by this cult. (See
      > Ezekiel 8:14-15;Jeremiah 7:18.)
      > >
      > > (ii) The Pine Cone is also a feature of the fertility rite and is
      > a symbol of the power of regeneration. This symbol is traced to Tammuz
      > of Babylon. It is seen in Mexico and Egypt as a symbol of their gods.
      > It is also a symbol of the Greek god Dionysus and the Roman god
      > Bacchus is seen in sculptures with a pine cone staff. A leader of the
      > Roman Church(John Paul II) also carried a pine cone staff.
      > >
      > > (iii)The Cross is a symbol of the sun and of Tammuz (TAU). This
      > symbol was seen in ancient drawings found in Mesopotamia and was
      > worshipped in ancient China. In Egypt it is called the Ankh and
      > Swastika or Chakra in India. The power of life or death was said to be
      > vested in it. This is one of the most prominent symbols of the Roman
      > and many other churches.
      > >
      > > (iv)The Serpent was also a symbol of the sun in the spiritual
      > realm of things in the Babylonian system. The serpent is also
      > prominent in the religions of Egypt, India, Central and South America
      > and represented the sun god. There are serpentine columns in St.
      > Peter's Basilica in Rome and the papal crest also has a serpent in it.
      > >
      > > These are just some of the features of the Babylonian religion
      > which have given rise to daughters in the various countries of the
      > world. Other features are the practice of astrology and magic. The
      > peacock is also a prominent symbol as is the solar disc or blaze also
      > called halo. A triad (3) of God's or trinity is another feature and is
      > a major doctrine of many churches.
      > >
      > > Apart from the above features, the scriptures also describe
      > Babylon in a particular way. The character of Babylon, anciently and
      > prophetically described by the scriptures, will also help to identify
      > Babylon the great and her harlots today.
      > >
      > > Anciently
      > > (a) According to the Babylonians, food described as unclean is fit
      > for food. Daniel observed this practice and being aware of the
      > restrictions God had placed on eating, refused food which could defile
      > his body (Daniel 1:1, 8; Leviticus 20:25; 11:l-end).
      > >
      > > (b)Magic, sorceries, enchantments, astrology play a prominent part
      > in the practices of Babylon as they seek after knowledge and
      > information about the future (Isaiah 47:1,12,13; Daniel 2:1-2).
      > >
      > > (c)Graven images or idols are used in worship and are prominent in
      > the Babylonian system (Jeremiah 50:1-2; Daniel 3:1-6; Exodus 20:4-5).
      > >
      > > (d)Honour due to God is appropriated by those in Babylon and they
      > place titles upon themselves which are properly placed on God (Daniel
      > 4:29-31; Matthew 23:8-12; Psalm 111;9). Titles used are: Lord, Father,
      > Your Worship,Your Worshipful Master, Master, Reverend, Holy Father.
      > >
      > > (e)God has declared certain things as holy but Babylon profanes
      > these things and reduce them to ordinary use (Daniel 5:1-4,17-23;
      > Exodus 30:25-29; 31:12-17).
      > >
      > > (f)Covetousness is the driving force of those in Babylon and the
      > system encourages seeking the treasures of this world, rather than the
      > Kingdom of God and His righteousness (Jeremiah 51:13; I John 2:15-17;
      > I Timothy 6:9-10).
      > >
      > > Prophetically
      > >
      > > (1)The whore and her daughters influence the leaders and rulers of
      > the nations (kings). They bow to her wishes as they make laws to
      > support the whore's doctrines. She uses governments to dominate the
      > world (Revelation 17:1-2,15; 18:3). For example, laws supporting
      > Sunday sacredness (Sunday Laws). Various religious festivals observed
      > by various cultures are public or national holidays.
      > >
      > > (2)The whore is responsible for the persecution of the prophets
      > and saints of God (Revelation 17:6; 18:24; Matthew 5:11-12) e.g. the
      > prophets and saints of God were persecuted and killed as they
      > proclaimed God's truth but met opposition from those who were contrary
      > to God's way (Babylon). Those who influence or carry out persecution
      > are, hence, a part of Babylon and her daughters.
      > >
      > > (3)Sorcery is used by the whore and those in the system to gain
      > success in business. Spells, oils of success, charms, pendants and
      > rings are employed to gain commercial success. The merchants of the
      > earth also benefit from the idolatrous festivals and activities
      > supported by the system e.g. birthdays, Christmas, Easter, Valentine's
      > Day, Divali, Gion, Idal-Adha etc. (Revelation 18:15,19, 23; Acts
      > 19:23-27).
      > >
      > > Can the features above (i-iv, a-f, 1-3) be found in the religious
      > organizations of the world, both in the past and at present? Do you
      > believe in or participate in the practices described above?
      > >
      > > Wherever these practices and features are found, it is the system
      > of Babylon the great and her harlots, which are at, work. God is
      > calling for all to:
      > >
      > > "... come out of her my people, that ye be not partakers of her
      > sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Revelation 18:4).
      > >
      > > Vs. 6, 7 - To be drunken with the blood of the saints refers to
      > the pleasure,wrongly experienced by Babylon in persecuting the saints.
      > As Jesus said:
      > >
      > > ".. .whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service."
      > (John 16:2).
      > >
      > > Because the system of the whore was contrary to the belief of true
      > Christians, they were persecuted by those whom the whore influenced.
      > Governments and religion were inseparable in many cultures and in the
      > Roman Empire. The emperor was the chief priest of their religious
      > system. Worship was to be given to the emperor and also to Rome as a
      > goddess. Many Christians would not bow to these demands and they were
      > killed.
      > >
      > > As the Roman Church gained prominence, they also influenced the
      > governing authorities to support and defend their teachings and those
      > who opposed the Roman doctrines, including true Christians, were
      > > persecuted and killed. It is said that many were killed by the
      > Roman Church's inquisition.
      > >
      > > INQUISITION - an office set up by the papacy to identify heretics
      > or those contrary to their doctrine.
      > >
      > > Also, in other cultures Christianity is suppressed and persecuted,
      > and is illegal in some Moslem countries.
      > >
      > > When a person dies for a cause, that person is called a martyr and
      > many have died because they would not deny Christ or His teachings.
      > N.B. - Even the protestant reformers: Martin Luther, John Calvin etc,
      > persecuted those who did not agree with them.
      > >
      > > John wondered or marveled greatly at the woman, not admiring in
      > the sense of being pleased, but he was amazed about her activities.
      > The Angel told John he would allow him to understand more about the
      > woman and also about the beast, which carries the woman. He will now
      > explain what the symbols mean and the nature of the beast is revealed.
      > >
      > > Vs. 8 - John is seeing the fourth beast in the later stages of its
      > existence i.e. he is being shown the judgment of the whore (Revelation
      > 17:1). The beast is not being described as he existed in John's time
      > but John is seeing him in the future, near the time of Christ's return.
      > >
      > > The beast was, but now is not, and shall ascend out of the
      > bottomless pit. Of the Lord Jesus, the scriptures say:
      > >
      > > "...the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the
      > Almighty." (Revelation 1:8).
      > >
      > > This shows Jesus' existence and reign never ends. This is not so
      > with the beast. The beast was once dominant (during John's life) but
      > is now dormant (as seen in the vision now) and will once again arise
      > to be dominant. Hence, the beast was, is not and shall ascend. Coming
      > from the bottomless pit shows the source of its power, which is from
      > Satan (Revelation 13:1-2).
      > >
      > > Over the years, the Roman Empire's control has varied from being
      > very dominant and organized with a revered emperor to, being loose
      > states joined by treaties with no dominant head. This is how John was
      > seeing the beast, but during his life the empire was still organized
      > and exercised control over the civilized world. The beast will once
      > again rise with power to form an organized system to control the world
      > but this system will not prevail but will be destroyed (go into
      > perdition). Those on the earth whose names are not in the Book of Life
      > will continue to wonder or be in amazement concerning the beast as it
      > rises to power.
      > >
      > > THE BOOK OF LIFE - a figurative expression of the list of persons
      > who will gain eternal life.( See Revelation 22:19; Exodus 32:32-33;
      > Psalm 69:28.)
      > >
      > > Vs. 9 - The woman sits on many waters i.e. her teaching and
      > influence is present in many nations of the world.The woman sits on
      > the beast and hence the beast is the nations and people of the earth
      > (Revelation 17:1,3,15). The woman is also sitting on seven mountains
      > which is the interpretation of the seven heads of the beast. These are
      > literal mountains or hills and cannot be interpreted again to mean
      > something else. The seven heads are seven mountains or hills on which
      > the woman sits i.e. a specific location is being identified.
      > Revelation 17:18 reveals that the woman is a city that rules over the
      > kings of the earth. This reigning appears to be current i.e. during
      > John's time as the Angel is now explaining the mystery to John. This
      > city must be Rome which ruled the earth in his time.
      > >
      > > Just as Jerusalem represents the character and spirit of the
      > nation or system of Israel, being the center of activities, so the
      > city of Rome represents the center or home base of the whore's system,
      > having the character of the woman. Hence, the city is the woman as the
      > woman's character or spirit is upon the city(Matthew 23: 37-38). Rome
      > also fills the specification of having seven mountains or hills and is
      > referred to as the 'city of seven hills' at times. The hills are
      > called; the Palatine,Capitoline,Aventine,Caelian,Esquiline,Viminal and
      > Ouirinal.
      > >
      > > Vs. 10,11,12,13 - Many identify the seven heads of the beast with
      > the seven kings of vs. 10. The scripture does not make this
      > association however, and in fact there are to be eight kings. N.B. the
      > kings follow one after the other and are not contemporaneous i.e.
      > existing at the same time. The seven heads are existing at the same
      > time and as the scripture says represents seven mountains on which the
      > whore sits or the location where she is based.
      > >
      > > The kings are the leaders or rulers of the beast or kingdom or
      > system of government. N.B. the beast is not,and hence although a
      > system is in place, it is not as dominant or organized as when 'it
      > was'. When the eighth king comes, he will eventually be in control of
      > an organized and dominant world ruling kingdom and this is why he is
      > called the beast also. When John sees the beast, it is at a point
      > where five kings have fallen or have already exercised power. The
      > sixth king is in power and the seventh is to come. He will continue in
      > power for a short space or a little. The eighth king will come to
      > power and then when the kingdom or system is organized and dominant,
      > he is called the beast, as he will exercise more power than the
      > others. However, it is he who will go to destruction even at the
      > coming of the Lord (Revelation 19:20). N.B. he is the final king of
      > the fourth beast before the coming of Christ.
      > >
      > > N.B. John is not seeing the beast as it was in is time but at a
      > time close to the end and in John's future.
      > >
      > > Many make the error of thinking that it was in John's time. That
      > five are fallen and they interpret this in many ways. However these
      > kings are rulers in the final stages of the fourth world-ruling
      > kingdom. They rule one after the other and it is at the coming of the
      > Lord that the fourth kingdom will end and the eighth king or beast
      > destroyed.
      > > 1. Some say the seven kings are the seven powers that have
      > oppressed God's people:Egypt,Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece being
      > the five that are past, with Rome being the sixth and Papal Rome the
      > seventh (or Christendom) and the eighth not accounted for or called a
      > revived Roman Empire commonly identified as the European Union. This
      > is clearly erroneous as the beasts of Revelation are the final stages
      > of the fourth beast that is Rome. Kings in this system are ruling in
      > the fourth world ruling kingdom and cannot be any other kingdom.
      > >
      > > 2.Others say the kings are seven revivals of the Roman Empire led
      > by rules who dominated during their time. They are Justinian,
      > Charlemagne, Otto the Great, Hofenstaufen Emperors, Charles V, The
      > Austrian Kingdom, Napoleon (others add Hitler). This is again
      > erroneous as during the rule of the seven kings the beast is not
      > dominant as it "is not". It is only at the coming of the eighth king
      > that the kingdom becomes revived or organized and dominant again
      > (Revelation 17:8).
      > >
      > > 3.Still others say the seven kings are seven religious systems of
      > the world namely: Atheism, Heathenism, Judaism, Eastern Mysticism,
      > Islam, Christianity, Roman Catholicism and Protestantism. This again
      > is erroneous as it is women who represent the religious systems of the
      > world. The woman of Revelation 12 being the true way and the woman of
      > Revelation 17 being the false way. Her daughters are the many branches
      > of false religion and surely number more than seven.
      > >
      > > These and other interpretations are erroneous as they associate
      > the seven heads with seven kings when the scripture does not make this
      > association and in fact there are eight kings not seven.
      > >
      > > As the eighth king gains power, ten other kings or rulers also
      > gain power. They would be rulers of ten divisions of the beast and as
      > the system is organized, they along with the eighth king (also called
      > the beast) receive authority at the same time i.e. one hour with the
      > beast. It is at this time that the fourth beast is truly revived as
      > the kingdom becomes organized to rule and dominate the earth.
      > >
      > > The ten horns are in agreement (have one mind) and they are united
      > with the eighth king. He is the one who directs them as they submit to
      > his authority (give their power and strength to him)
      > >
      > >
      > > The identity of these rulers is not easily discerned and much
      > error has been made over the years trying to identify them. There are
      > some clear characteristics which must be considered before any
      > interpretation is made. Also, with a prophecy of this type that
      > foretells the future, i.e. yet to be fulfilled, the identities of the
      > characters involved may only be discerned after fulfillment or close
      > to the point of fulfillment.
      > >
      > > POINTS TO NOTE
      > >
      > > (1)The term beast refers to both the kingdom and the king ruling
      > at the height or most dominant time during the kingdom's existence,
      > just as was seen in Daniel (Daniel 7:17, 23; Revelation 17:1,15). The
      > eighth king is described in the same terms as the kingdom seeing that
      > all that is accomplished or experienced is common to both. (Revelation
      > 17:8,11).
      > >
      > > (2)The eighth king, being of the seven, is refers to him as
      > following in a line of succession i.e. the kings rule one after the
      > other (five fallen, one is, other is not yet come) and not
      > concurrently. He is not one of the seven returning to rule but he is
      > belonging to or ruling in a line of succession. He is the eighth one
      > to rule the kingdom or system of things.
      > >
      > > (3)The seventh king is said to continue a short space. This may
      > refer to the time of his reign. This may or may not be in relation to
      > the reign of the other kings. However, it may also be translated
      > otherwise.
      > >
      > > CONTINUE - MENO (Greek) - to stay (in a given place, state, relation)
      > >
      > > SHORT (space) - OLIGOS (Greek) - puny (in extent, degree, number,
      > duration, value).
      > >
      > >
      > > Hence, this is a possible reference to the power that will be
      > exercised by the seventh king. He will not be dominant, as the kingdom
      > has not come with power as yet.
      > >
      > > (4)When the eighth king gains power in the system previously ruled
      > by the seven before him, ten other kings or rulers will also gain
      > power over ten kingdoms or regions. This would indicate the putting in
      > place of a new system for eleven leaders to be installed at the same
      > time and who previously were not ruling this system,or they would gain
      > greater power in a system which was already in place. The ten kings
      > are in agreement and give their power to the beast i.e. they support
      > him and he has authority over them. This is similar to how Herod,
      > Pilate, Felix, Festus, Agrippa - although rulers in the Roman system -
      > had to answer to the Caesars.
      > >
      > > To identify the fulfillment of this portion of the prophecy and to
      > identify the beast we must look for:
      > >
      > > (i)The coming of a dominant world ruling system, rising from a
      > previously existing system that did not have such power.
      > >
      > > (ii)A system, which previously had seven rulers and the eighth
      > coming to power.
      > >
      > > (iii)The system will be comprised of one supreme ruler and ten
      > others who are under his authority. N.B. these could be rulers of
      > nations or groups of nations.
      > >
      > > (iv) They are united in their actions and aims and are installed
      > as leaders (rulers) at the same time (one hour) or they gain great
      > power at the same time and the rule is worldwide (Revelation 17:1-3,15).
      > >
      > > As we examine the events of the world, we must look out for these
      > features. Any system, which may be a possible fulfillment of the
      > prophecy, must conform to these features. As soon as an upcoming
      > system diverts from having these features then it has not fulfilled
      > the prophecy.
      > >
      > > Vs. 14 - 18 - The union of the beast and the ten kings will make
      > war with the Lord Jesus. They have been deceived into believing they
      > can fight against the Lord, called the Lamb (Revelation 5:6; John
      > 1:29; Revelation 16:14; 19:11-20). This will occur at the time of His
      > coming as He is accompanied by the saints who had been caught up to
      > meet Him and His holy Angels (Revelation 19:7-8; 15:6; Matthew 24:31).
      > >
      > > The ten kings (horns) will eventually turn against Babylon and
      > will openly bring her down and destroy the system that she represents.
      > After using her to deceive the people and to assist in putting their
      > system in place, they no longer need her services.
      > >
      > > Even though the systems put in place are ungodly, God has allowed
      > them to be established so His will may be accomplished. God will allow
      > man to make his own choices and go his own way until the time comes
      > for God to judge the world. All that has been predicted in prophecies
      > in the scriptures will come to pass as man does that which God in His
      > foreknowledge knew he would have done.
      > >
      > > Again, the woman represents the city and the city the woman as the
      > character of the woman is seen in the city. The city, which ruled over
      > the kings of the earth in John's time, was Rome.
      > >
      > > Of Rome Dr. Clyde Curry Smith said: "The religion was primarily
      > that of the State, with the city personified as the chief deity"
      > (Called Roma), Lions Handbook - The World's Religion.
      > >
      > >
      > > safswan.
      > >
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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