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Re: Africanized Bees

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  • David
    Why would you vacuum up your bees? Agressive or non- agressive you either deal with it or replace your queen, not reduce your bees. I have been a beekeeper for
    Message 1 of 28 , Nov 4, 2005
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      Why would you vacuum up your bees? Agressive or non- agressive you
      either deal with it or replace your queen, not reduce your bees. I
      have been a beekeeper for over thirty years, most of my life, and have
      never heard of such. I hope this is just a joke.

      David


      --- In beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, Louis/Patricia Molnar
      <molnar_louispatricia@y...> wrote:
      >
      > No. Once they get into the canister they die. We are not using the
      bee-friendly type of vac.
      > Louis
      >
      > Chip Phelps <chipinnc@n...> wrote:
      > Naw, The Ex-Wife's house or the ex-inlaws house.. ;-)
      >
      > Martin Gutzmer wrote:
      >
      > > do you let them go at your neighbors?
      > >
      > > -----Original Message-----
      > > *From:* beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
      > > [mailto:beekeeping@yahoogroups.com]*On Behalf Of
      *molnar_louispatricia
      > > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2005 9:13 PM
      > > *To:* beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
      > > *Subject:* [beekeeping] Africanized Bees
      > >
      > > Some bees are agressive not all. Have your suit and gloves on and
      > > take
      > > a vacumn cleaner with you. Tap on top of hive with vac on all
      > > agressive bees will come out and non-agressive remain. You can
      > > vac at
      > > the entrance you don't have to take the cover off. Vac will catch
      > > even
      > > those flying around you. Under your veil by your chin put some
      > > laundry
      > > bounce they don't seem to like the smell, and you can see better.
      > > The
      > > rest of the bad bees are sucked into the vac. Shop-Vac is best.
      > > Louis
      > >
      >
      >
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    • Louis/Patricia Molnar
      What do you do with Africanized bees, David? David wrote:Why would you vacuum up your bees? Agressive or non- agressive you either deal
      Message 2 of 28 , Nov 4, 2005
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        What do you do with Africanized bees, David?

        David <wdsmith@...> wrote:
        Why would you vacuum up your bees? Agressive or non- agressive you
        either deal with it or replace your queen, not reduce your bees. I
        have been a beekeeper for over thirty years, most of my life, and have
        never heard of such. I hope this is just a joke.

        David


        --- In beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, Louis/Patricia Molnar
        <molnar_louispatricia@y...> wrote:
        >
        > No.  Once they get into the canister they die.  We are not using the
        bee-friendly type of vac.
        > Louis
        >
        > Chip Phelps <chipinnc@n...> wrote:
        > Naw,  The Ex-Wife's house or the ex-inlaws house..  ;-)
        >
        > Martin Gutzmer wrote:
        >
        > > do you let them go at your neighbors?
        > >
        > >     -----Original Message-----
        > >     *From:* beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
        > >     [mailto:beekeeping@yahoogroups.com]*On Behalf Of
        *molnar_louispatricia
        > >     *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2005 9:13 PM
        > >     *To:* beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
        > >     *Subject:* [beekeeping] Africanized Bees
        > >
        > >     Some bees are agressive not all.  Have your suit and gloves on and
        > >     take
        > >     a vacumn cleaner with you.  Tap on top of hive with vac on all
        > >     agressive bees will come out and non-agressive remain.  You can
        > >     vac at
        > >     the entrance you don't have to take the cover off.  Vac will catch
        > >     even
        > >     those flying around you. Under your veil by your chin put some
        > >     laundry
        > >     bounce they don't seem to like the smell, and you can see better.
        > >     The
        > >     rest of the bad bees are sucked into the vac.  Shop-Vac is best.
        > >     Louis
        > >
        >
        >
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        > Beekeeping Beekeeping supplies
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      • Bryon Culling
        My guess would be to find out how people in Africa work their bees and then do what they do. There has been bee keepers in Africa for many many years.
        Message 3 of 28 , Nov 4, 2005
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          My guess would be to find out how people in Africa work their bees and then do what they do.
           
          There has been bee keepers in Africa for many many years.  Probibly as long as there has been honey bees in Africa.   To them, Africanized bees are nothing new.  Find out what they do and adapt that to what you do now.  The African bee's learned to adapt to Africa.  it shouldn't bee too hard for Us to adapt to them. 

          Louis/Patricia Molnar <molnar_louispatricia@...> wrote:
          What do you do with Africanized bees, David?


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        • D.O.
          Keep in mind that Africanized honeybees are not African honeybees. Africanized honeybees are hybrids, and are not the bees that you ll find either wild or kept
          Message 4 of 28 , Nov 5, 2005
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            Keep in mind that Africanized honeybees are not
            African honeybees. Africanized honeybees are hybrids,
            and are not the bees that you'll find either wild or
            kept in Africa.

            --- Bryon Culling <bculling@...> wrote:

            > My guess would be to find out how people in Africa
            > work their bees and then do what they do.
            >
            > There has been bee keepers in Africa for many many
            > years. Probibly as long as there has been honey
            > bees in Africa. To them, Africanized bees are
            > nothing new. Find out what they do and adapt that
            > to what you do now. The African bee's learned to
            > adapt to Africa. it shouldn't bee too hard for Us
            > to adapt to them.
            >
            > Louis/Patricia Molnar
            > <molnar_louispatricia@...> wrote:
            > What do you do with Africanized bees, David?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
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            > one click.




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          • Bryon Culling
            I saw a show on the Descovery Channel a month or on African Bees and how people there were dealing with them and the new problems they are having with Cape
            Message 5 of 28 , Nov 5, 2005
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              I saw a show on the Descovery Channel a month or on African Bees and how people there were dealing with them and the new problems they are having with Cape bees.  they made it sound like the African bees were just as mean and tempermental as the ones we have here.  they were very protective of the hive just like here.  they swarmed often just like here, the can travel farther looking for new places to find food and an home for the swarm.  everything the show pointed out about the bees in Africa seems to go hand in hand with what we are dealing with here.  then the show went on to talk about the problems bee keepers are having with Cap bees.  cape bees wernt a problem.  they stayed in a certen area and the African bees didnt' go there.  then people started moving hives back and forth between the two areas and that let cape bees move on and to new places.  the cape bees will invade a hive one worker at a time and that worker will start laying clones of it's self untill the hive is full of laying worker clones and sooner or later, the hive dies.  the cape clones go off to fine a new hive. 
               
              it was very interesting.  Seems that there is something out there more annoying than Africanized bees.
               
              there was another Show that talked aobut how in Mexico City, there is a group learnign to deal with the Africanized bees and how they are breeding a calmer verity of that bee.  seemed like they were makign good progress but still had a long way to go.

              "D.O." <kg6mvx@...> wrote:
              Keep in mind that Africanized honeybees are not
              African honeybees. Africanized honeybees are hybrids,
              and are not the bees that you'll find either wild or
              kept in Africa.

              --- Bryon Culling <bculling@...> wrote:


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            • Kayode Osinaike
              I agree with you Bryon Africanized bees are not African bees After reading USDA reports and articles it is disturbing to wonder how those agressive bees got to
              Message 6 of 28 , Nov 6, 2005
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                I agree with you Bryon Africanized bees are not
                African bees

                After reading USDA reports and articles it is
                disturbing to wonder how those agressive bees got to
                be termed "africanized"!

                African bees are protective rather than agressive.

                What on earth has God not given the protective
                instinct?

                Lions, tigers and other animals in their natural
                habitat are.

                > "D.O." <kg6mvx@...> wrote:
                > Keep in mind that Africanized honeybees are not
                > African honeybees. Africanized honeybees are
                > hybrids,
                > and are not the bees that you'll find either wild or
                > kept in Africa.
                >
                > --- Bryon Culling <bculling@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
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                > one click.





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              • George Fergusson
                ... True. ... They re a cross between Apis Mellifera Scutellata (african) and Apis Mellifera Mellifera (european) honey bees. They are in effect, european
                Message 7 of 28 , Nov 6, 2005
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                  At 03:18 AM 11/6/05 -0800, you wrote:
                  >
                  >I agree with you Bryon Africanized bees are not
                  >African bees

                  True.

                  >After reading USDA reports and articles it is
                  >disturbing to wonder how those agressive bees got to
                  >be termed "africanized"!

                  They're a cross between Apis Mellifera Scutellata (african) and Apis
                  Mellifera Mellifera (european) honey bees. They are in effect, european
                  honey bees that have obtained african traits (which are apparently,
                  dominant) through interbreeding. The term "africanized" seems appropriate
                  to me, but you can call them what you like.

                  >African bees are protective rather than agressive.

                  Depends on the circumstances, and your point of view wouldn't it? I would
                  use the term "protective" when they respond appropriately to a disturbance.
                  I would use the term "aggressive" when they respond inappropriately or
                  excessivly to a disturbance, or even just the potential threat of a
                  disturbance.

                  I can go, unprotected into my apiary, sit down beside a hive, and watch my
                  bees at the entrance to their hive with my face one foot away, without
                  being attacked. Many africanized colonies attack en masse when interlopers
                  get within a few hundred yards of their hives. I consider that "aggressive".

                  >What on earth has God not given the protective
                  >instinct?

                  The interests of the bees and the interests of the beekeeper are often
                  (usually in fact) not the same. Our management practices and breeding
                  efforts are all designed to coerce the bees into doing what we want them to
                  do and acting the way we want them to act rather than perhaps the way God
                  wanted them to act.

                  For example, honeybees want to swarm to reproduce and they increase their
                  population so they can do so; beekeepers try to prevent swarming because it
                  reduces (or eliminates) honey surplus, but beekeepers also want honeybees
                  to increase their population so they can be exploited- either for making
                  increase or gathering a honey surplus, or both.

                  Honeybees want to make the honey they need for their survival. Beekeepers
                  want them to make all the honey they can, way in excess of what they need
                  for survival and have explicitly bred them for this purpose.

                  Honeybees want to manage their own queens for their own purposes;
                  beekeepers want to do that for them and in fact use requeening as a means
                  of encouraging the traits we want them to have rather than the traits the
                  bees and nature herself would promote if left to their own devices.

                  Honeybees need to be have a healthy defense instinct to protect their hives
                  and stores from predators; beekeepers want their bees to be mild mannered
                  and docile so it's easier to manage them without excessive protective gear,
                  safer to keep them around populated areas, etc.

                  Honeybees tend to want to abscond from their hives when bothered too much,
                  by predators, beekeepers, or pests; beekeepers don't want to go to their
                  yards to find all their bees gone.

                  >Lions, tigers and other animals in their natural
                  >habitat are.

                  Honeybees involved in the beekeeping industry are in effect, domesticated
                  livestock. We'd have the same issues with lions, tigers, and bears if we
                  attempted to domesticate them and raise them in captivity for our own
                  purposes. We'd be stiffling and breeding out the defensive and aggressive
                  traits in these animals just like we're doing with bees.

                  The fact is, african honeybees (AM Scutellata) ARE significantly more
                  defensive than most other races of bee, excessively so. This is a statement
                  of fact. Is it a bad thing? It is, if you're trying to domesticate them,
                  and it is if they're mating with your more docile bees. European honeybees
                  can be "hot" but "hot" doesn't begin to describe the behavior of
                  Scutellata, or bees crossed with them.

                  George-

                  >> "D.O." <kg6mvx@...> wrote:
                  >> Keep in mind that Africanized honeybees are not
                  >> African honeybees. Africanized honeybees are
                  >> hybrids,
                  >> and are not the bees that you'll find either wild or
                  >> kept in Africa.
                  >>
                  >> --- Bryon Culling <bculling@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
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                  >> one click.
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                • Louis/Patricia Molnar
                  Excuse me, however, we do have wild Africanized honeybees here in Southwest Florida. Two incidents have occured not far from us. Were people and animals have
                  Message 8 of 28 , Nov 6, 2005
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                    Excuse me, however, we do have wild Africanized honeybees here in Southwest Florida.  Two incidents have occured not far from us.  Were people and animals have been attacked.  The animals were dogs and were so severely stung, vet counted 300 stings on one dog, and it died.  The woman who owned the dog was severly stung trying to save her dog.
                    We were officially told to kill the Africanized bees. 
                    Granted I am not one to kill insects, my yard is crawling with piss ants, unless they try to come in the house I don't mess with them.
                    How about having 25 Africanized bees chasing you into your house and once inside begin to attack your indoor pets and your spouse.
                    What are you going to do when confronted with the Africanized bees?


                    "D.O." <kg6mvx@...> wrote:
                    Keep in mind that Africanized honeybees are not
                    African honeybees. Africanized honeybees are hybrids,
                    and are not the bees that you'll find either wild or
                    kept in Africa.

                    --- Bryon Culling <bculling@...> wrote:

                    > My guess would be to find out how people in Africa
                    > work their bees and then do what they do.

                    > There has been bee keepers in Africa for many many
                    > years.  Probibly as long as there has been honey
                    > bees in Africa.   To them, Africanized bees are
                    > nothing new.  Find out what they do and adapt that
                    > to what you do now.  The African bee's learned to
                    > adapt to Africa.  it shouldn't bee too hard for Us
                    > to adapt to them. 
                    >
                    > Louis/Patricia Molnar
                    > <molnar_louispatricia@...> wrote:
                    > What do you do with Africanized bees, David?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >            
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                  • David
                    Once they are africanized a vacuum will not change the situation. You will vacuum the guard bees up and they will be replaced quickly. There again, deal with
                    Message 9 of 28 , Nov 7, 2005
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                      Once they are africanized a vacuum will not change the situation. You
                      will vacuum the guard bees up and they will be replaced quickly. There
                      again, deal with them or buy new queens.
                      As far as what I do with them? I live in North Alabama and have not
                      had to deal with it. I have, however, kept up with them and how to
                      deal with them since I heard about the northern migration. (Like any
                      good beekeeper would do)

                      David

                      --- In beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, Louis/Patricia Molnar
                      <molnar_louispatricia@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > What do you do with Africanized bees, David?
                      >
                      > David <wdsmith@h...> wrote:Why would you vacuum up your bees?
                      Agressive or non- agressive you
                      > either deal with it or replace your queen, not reduce your bees. I
                      > have been a beekeeper for over thirty years, most of my life, and have
                      > never heard of such. I hope this is just a joke.
                      >
                      > David
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, Louis/Patricia Molnar
                      > <molnar_louispatricia@y...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > No. Once they get into the canister they die. We are not using the
                      > bee-friendly type of vac.
                      > > Louis
                      > >
                      > > Chip Phelps <chipinnc@n...> wrote:
                      > > Naw, The Ex-Wife's house or the ex-inlaws house.. ;-)
                      > >
                      > > Martin Gutzmer wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > do you let them go at your neighbors?
                      > > >
                      > > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > > *From:* beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > [mailto:beekeeping@yahoogroups.com]*On Behalf Of
                      > *molnar_louispatricia
                      > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2005 9:13 PM
                      > > > *To:* beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
                      > > > *Subject:* [beekeeping] Africanized Bees
                      > > >
                      > > > Some bees are agressive not all. Have your suit and gloves
                      on and
                      > > > take
                      > > > a vacumn cleaner with you. Tap on top of hive with vac on all
                      > > > agressive bees will come out and non-agressive remain. You can
                      > > > vac at
                      > > > the entrance you don't have to take the cover off. Vac will
                      catch
                      > > > even
                      > > > those flying around you. Under your veil by your chin put some
                      > > > laundry
                      > > > bounce they don't seem to like the smell, and you can see
                      better.
                      > > > The
                      > > > rest of the bad bees are sucked into the vac. Shop-Vac is best.
                      > > > Louis
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > SPONSORED LINKS
                      > > Beekeeping Beekeeping supplies
                      > >
                      > > ---------------------------------
                      > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Visit your group "beekeeping" on the web.
                      > >
                      > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      > > beekeeping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                      > Service.
                      > >
                      > >
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                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ---------------------------------
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                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      > Visit your group "beekeeping" on the web.
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                    • FarmerBrown49@aol.com
                      In a message dated 11/4/2005 5:16:45 P.M. Central Standard Time, molnar_louispatricia@yahoo.com writes: What do you do with Africanized bees, David? Sammy
                      Message 10 of 28 , Nov 7, 2005
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                        In a message dated 11/4/2005 5:16:45 P.M. Central Standard Time, molnar_louispatricia@... writes:
                        What do you do with Africanized bees, David?
                        Sammy Replies: I simply Re-Queen when I get mean bees. If I was bothered with Africanized Bees I would simply re-queen them.  Africanized Bees are very aggressive but workable just the same.
                         
                        Sammy
                        Our web site: http://www.brownsbees.com  or http://brownsapiaries.com/
                        add your name to our Beekeepers Directory at http://brownsapiaries.com/addtolist.html
                        Other screen names I can be reached at: sammy@..., farmerbrown49@..., ASamBrown@... Host your Web site with BizLand!
                      • FarmerBrown49@aol.com
                        In a message dated 11/4/2005 9:57:13 A.M. Central Standard Time, wdsmith@hiwaay.net writes: Why would you vacuum up your bees? Agressive or non- agressive you
                        Message 11 of 28 , Nov 8, 2005
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                          In a message dated 11/4/2005 9:57:13 A.M. Central Standard Time, wdsmith@... writes:
                          Why would you vacuum up your bees? Agressive or non- agressive you
                          either deal with it or replace your queen, not reduce your bees. I
                          have been a beekeeper for over thirty years, most of my life, and have
                          never heard of such. I hope this is just a joke.

                          David
                          Sammy Replies:  Sadly to say all to many Commercial Beekeepers do this very thing every fall with 2/3 to 3/4 of their bees.  Some go as far as killing up to 7/8 of their bees.  That way they get every little bit of honey they can.  They rebuild next spring.
                           
                          Sammy
                          Our web site: http://www.brownsbees.com  or http://brownsapiaries.com/
                          add your name to our Beekeepers Directory at http://brownsapiaries.com/addtolist.html
                          Other screen names I can be reached at: sammy@..., farmerbrown49@..., ASamBrown@... Host your Web site with BizLand!
                        • FarmerBrown49@aol.com
                          In a message dated 11/5/2005 7:42:51 A.M. Central Standard Time, kg6mvx@yahoo.com writes: Keep in mind that Africanized honeybees are not African honeybees.
                          Message 12 of 28 , Nov 8, 2005
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                            In a message dated 11/5/2005 7:42:51 A.M. Central Standard Time, kg6mvx@... writes:
                            Keep in mind that Africanized honeybees are not
                            African honeybees. Africanized honeybees are hybrids,
                            and are not the bees that you'll find either wild or
                            kept in Africa.
                            Sammy Replies:  A point that many over look.
                             
                            Sammy
                            Our web site: http://www.brownsbees.com  or http://brownsapiaries.com/
                            add your name to our Beekeepers Directory at http://brownsapiaries.com/addtolist.html
                            Other screen names I can be reached at: sammy@..., farmerbrown49@..., ASamBrown@... Host your Web site with BizLand!
                          • FarmerBrown49@aol.com
                            In a message dated 11/6/2005 5:19:12 A.M. Central Standard Time, jkoosinaike@yahoo.com writes: After reading USDA reports and articles it is disturbing to
                            Message 13 of 28 , Nov 8, 2005
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                              In a message dated 11/6/2005 5:19:12 A.M. Central Standard Time, jkoosinaike@... writes:
                              After reading USDA reports and articles it is
                              disturbing to wonder how those agressive bees got to
                              be termed "africanized"!
                              Sammy Replies:  :) Simple, they are a cross between the African Honey Bee and the Italian and an others I think, but sure about the African Honey Bee and the Italians.
                               
                              Cross bread Bees come in two categories gentle and aggressive.  I use to own Hi-breed bees called Mid-Night.  Good workers and very gentle until they swarm out and the young queen mates with other drones.  Then they can make those "Africanized bees" look gentle.  I have worked both.
                               
                              Sammy
                              Our web site: http://www.brownsbees.com  or http://brownsapiaries.com/
                              add your name to our Beekeepers Directory at http://brownsapiaries.com/addtolist.html
                              Other screen names I can be reached at: sammy@..., farmerbrown49@..., ASamBrown@... Host your Web site with BizLand!
                            • FarmerBrown49@aol.com
                              In a message dated 11/6/2005 7:26:46 P.M. Central Standard Time, molnar_louispatricia@yahoo.com writes: What are you going to do when confronted with the
                              Message 14 of 28 , Nov 8, 2005
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                                In a message dated 11/6/2005 7:26:46 P.M. Central Standard Time, molnar_louispatricia@... writes:
                                What are you going to do when confronted with the Africanized bees?
                                Sammy Replies:  This is a tough situation to be in.  First don't try to out run them, you can't run that fast.  To get away from them or other bee, wasp, hornet, walk to some near by bushes.  These bushes need to be taller than you are.  As you enter the bushes run in a zigzag way, staying as low as possible.  The bees will lose you among the moving leaves.  Now to get rid of them.  This will depend on where they are at.  Easiest way is go to the nest after dark if possible when it is cold.  Second best is when it is raining.  Secure all entrances closed.  You will need wood or plaster.  Cement will do but make it thick and as dry as you can and still work it (no gravel).  DO NOT USE PUTTY or other such sealers that does not get hard.  The Bees will remove it.  If you can place some Paramoth or moth balls in the nest first.  If you do any of these things be sure and ware your bee veil and other protective clothing for most people.
                                 
                                Now if the bees are in a standard hive Re-queen them or have another beekeeper do it for you.
                                 
                                Sammy
                                Our web site: http://www.brownsbees.com  or http://brownsapiaries.com/
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                              • D.O.
                                I know that bee boxes are traditionaly made from pine, cypress, or most any other available wood. Have any of you tried 3/4 plywood for bee boxes? Do they
                                Message 15 of 28 , Nov 14, 2005
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                                  I know that bee boxes are traditionaly made from pine,
                                  cypress, or most any other available wood.

                                  Have any of you tried 3/4" plywood for bee boxes? Do
                                  they work well? I'm guessing they'll last just as long
                                  if they are painted. Any big drawbacks?

                                  Thanks for your insight.





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                                • jeffjamrosz@sbcglobal.net
                                  I originally made my own equipment using ¾ plywood. I PRESENT TO YOU: 10 REASONS NOT TO USE PLYWOOD WHEN BUILDING HIVE EQUIPMENT 1. Lumber has a good
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Nov 14, 2005
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                                    I originally made my own equipment using ¾" plywood.

                                    I PRESENT TO YOU:
                                    10 REASONS NOT TO USE PLYWOOD WHEN BUILDING HIVE EQUIPMENT

                                    1. Lumber has a good price/strength ratio.
                                    -Plywood is expensive and built for horizontal strength – not
                                    vertical or vertical straightness.

                                    2. Lumber comes in good working widths.
                                    -Plywood must be ripped to the widths that are needed.
                                    -When cutting center plywood pieces, all sides require to be cut.

                                    3. Lumber has several straight working sides.
                                    - Plywood must be ripped, and those ripped edges must be straight
                                    enough for hive bodies to match up.

                                    4. Lumber has a fairly smooth finish.
                                    - Plywood finishes are typically rough.
                                    -Sanded plywoods are more expensive.
                                    - Sanding your own plywood is time consuming, and results in a less
                                    than level finish (due to fiber densities).

                                    5. Lumber works well for making corner box joints.
                                    - Plywood always splinters (even with a brand new sharp stacked dado
                                    blade set), the question is always just how badly it does it.
                                    - Plywood corners become "brittle" once the dado corners are notched
                                    and often splinter worse when driving nails or screws (even with pre-
                                    drilled holes).

                                    6. Lumber side cuts (rips down the length of the board) are solid.
                                    - Plywood is a laminate that often has seams or voids between
                                    layers. These voids create holes in the top edge of the box and are
                                    an entry point for weather and rot. Filling these holes with paint
                                    is time consuming or impossible. Putty requires the finish box to be
                                    sanded and thus adding time and expense.

                                    7. Lumber is good for ripping rabbet edges for top bar ledge.
                                    -Plywood splinters and also contains the holes discussed in #6.

                                    8. Lumber is nice because fasteners will sink into the surface.
                                    - Plywood requires all fastener holes to be complete pre-drilled.
                                    Even then some strikes of the hummer, or over set of a screw
                                    splinters the plywood worse than the original cuts.
                                    -Plywood separates when fasteners are end sunk, this is lessened when
                                    predrilled, but so lessened is the fasteners strength. This
                                    separation also creates surface bumps that are difficult to scrape on
                                    the inside of hive bodies.

                                    9. Lumber has a good weight/strength ratio.
                                    - Plywood is naturally heavy because of all the glue that adheres it.

                                    10. Lumber has no glue.
                                    - Plywood is assembled with glue. It is your faith to trust the
                                    chemicals that compose that glue to be safe enough to eat should it
                                    find its way into your honey.

                                    I'll only use lumber from now on though! 
                                  • George Fergusson
                                    ... I can only agree with Jeff. Plywood has it s uses, but hive bodies is not one of them. I ve used plywood for bottom boards, a use for which it is
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Nov 14, 2005
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                                      At 11:02 PM 11/14/05 -0000, you wrote:
                                      >I originally made my own equipment using ¾" plywood.
                                      >
                                      >I PRESENT TO YOU:
                                      >10 REASONS NOT TO USE PLYWOOD WHEN BUILDING HIVE EQUIPMENT

                                      I can only agree with Jeff. Plywood has it's uses, but hive bodies is not
                                      one of them. I've used plywood for bottom boards, a use for which it is
                                      marginally suitable but they tend to sag unless reinforced and suffer all
                                      the other "problems" that Jeff mentioned- splintering, etc. I've also used
                                      1/4" plywood (luan) for making covers, a use for which it is reasonably
                                      well suited, but only because it's not exposed to the weather.

                                      George-
                                    • davidbrowder
                                      If you re making do with what ya got, plywood (Any thickness) ll work. Bees don t seem to care. Going to the store to buy material?? Buy REAL lumber. ...
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Nov 14, 2005
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                                        If you're making do with what ya got, plywood (Any thickness) 'll work. Bees
                                        don't seem to care. Going to the store to buy material?? Buy REAL lumber.
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: "DO" <kg6mvx@...>
                                        To: <beekeeping@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 4:23 PM
                                        Subject: [beekeeping] 3/4" plywood boxes? Has anybody tried this?


                                        > I know that bee boxes are traditionaly made from pine,
                                        > cypress, or most any other available wood.
                                        >
                                        > Have any of you tried 3/4" plywood for bee boxes? Do
                                        > they work well? I'm guessing they'll last just as long
                                        > if they are painted. Any big drawbacks?
                                        >
                                        > Thanks for your insight.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > __________________________________
                                        > Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
                                        > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Ivailo Alexiev
                                        Bees deserve real wood !!! D.O. wrote: I know that bee boxes are traditionaly made from pine, cypress, or most any other available wood.
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Nov 15, 2005
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                                          Bees deserve real wood !!! 

                                          "D.O." <kg6mvx@...> wrote:
                                          I know that bee boxes are traditionaly made from pine,
                                          cypress, or most any other available wood.

                                          Have any of you tried 3/4" plywood for bee boxes? Do
                                          they work well? I'm guessing they'll last just as long
                                          if they are painted. Any big drawbacks?

                                          Thanks for your insight.




                                                     
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                                        • Nick Emeric
                                          Bees deserve real wood doesn t help him or answer his question. inspite of that statement being correct. I have made hive boxes from 3/4 plywood before as an
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Nov 15, 2005
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                                            Bees deserve real wood doesn't help him or answer his question. inspite of that statement being correct.
                                             
                                            I have made hive boxes from 3/4 plywood before as an experiment. I found that they held up ok for a while. after 1 year I found that the unsealed areas of the plywood edge wicked moisture from the air and the plywood layers would delaminate especially where you rabbet the top for the frames to sit. once the layers start to separate, the girls will chew and glue up the heck out of those edges. so I became concerned about the glue used to make plywood and the experiment came to an end. But, on the short term, I still use plywood for Nuc boxes and they work fine. just no long term use.
                                            Hope that helps.

                                            "D.O." <kg6mvx@...> wrote:
                                            I know that bee boxes are traditionaly made from pine,
                                            cypress, or most any other available wood.

                                            Have any of you tried 3/4" plywood for bee boxes? Do
                                            they work well? I'm guessing they'll last just as long
                                            if they are painted. Any big drawbacks?

                                            Thanks for your insight.




                                                       
                                            __________________________________
                                            Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
                                            http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


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                                          • D.O.
                                            Thanks Nick and everybody for your thoughtful replies. I ll stick to pine. ... __________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Nov 15, 2005
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                                              Thanks Nick and everybody for your thoughtful replies.
                                              I'll stick to pine.

                                              --- Nick Emeric <nicke153@...> wrote:

                                              > Bees deserve real wood doesn't help him or answer
                                              > his question. inspite of that statement being
                                              > correct.
                                              >
                                              > I have made hive boxes from 3/4 plywood before as
                                              > an experiment. I found that they held up ok for a
                                              > while. after 1 year I found that the unsealed areas
                                              > of the plywood edge wicked moisture from the air and
                                              > the plywood layers would delaminate especially where
                                              > you rabbet the top for the frames to sit. once the
                                              > layers start to separate, the girls will chew and
                                              > glue up the heck out of those edges. so I became
                                              > concerned about the glue used to make plywood and
                                              > the experiment came to an end. But, on the short
                                              > term, I still use plywood for Nuc boxes and they
                                              > work fine. just no long term use.
                                              > Hope that helps.
                                              >




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                                            • dickbeekeeper
                                              For a couple more cents worth of opinion on the topic, many of my hives are plywood. No ill effects noted. Plywood scraps were readily available to me in the
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Nov 15, 2005
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                                                For a couple more cents worth of opinion on the topic, many of my hives are
                                                plywood. No ill effects noted.

                                                Plywood scraps were readily available to me in the past where I worked.
                                                Some of the hives were even made out of 3/8 inch plywood. A 3/8 inch strip
                                                was glued and nailed to all edges of the plywood sheets before assembling.
                                                3/8 + 3/8 makes 3/4, so they were completely interchangeable with any other
                                                hive body. The 3/8 strips reinforced the edges and prevented warpage. The
                                                strips also made for great hand holds.

                                                Mine have held up fairly well (although, I'll admit there was some slight
                                                occasional delamination on a few boxes). A couple good coats of paint does
                                                wonders for preserving any kind of wood, including plywood.

                                                And, as earlier mentioned, the bees just don't care what kind of wood they are
                                                living in.

                                                Regards,
                                                Dick Allen
                                              • FarmerBrown49@aol.com
                                                In a message dated 11/14/2005 5:08:01 P.M. Central Standard Time, jeffjamrosz@sbcglobal.net writes: I originally made my own equipment using ¾ plywood. I
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Nov 15, 2005
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                                                  In a message dated 11/14/2005 5:08:01 P.M. Central Standard Time, jeffjamrosz@... writes:
                                                  I originally made my own equipment using ¾" plywood.

                                                  I PRESENT TO YOU:
                                                  10 REASONS NOT TO USE PLYWOOD WHEN BUILDING HIVE EQUIPMENT

                                                  1.  Lumber has a good price/strength ratio.
                                                  -Plywood is expensive and built for horizontal strength – not
                                                  vertical or vertical straightness.

                                                  2.   Lumber comes in good working widths.
                                                  -Plywood must be ripped to the widths that are needed.
                                                  -When cutting center plywood pieces, all sides require to be cut.

                                                  3.   Lumber has several straight working sides.
                                                  - Plywood must be ripped, and those ripped edges must be straight
                                                  enough for hive bodies to match up.

                                                  4. Lumber has a fairly smooth finish.
                                                  - Plywood finishes are typically rough.
                                                  -Sanded plywoods are more expensive.
                                                  - Sanding your own plywood is time consuming, and results in a less
                                                  than level finish (due to fiber densities).

                                                  5. Lumber works well for making corner box joints.
                                                  - Plywood always splinters (even with a brand new sharp stacked dado
                                                  blade set), the question is always just how badly it does it.
                                                  - Plywood corners become "brittle" once the dado corners are notched
                                                  and often splinter worse when driving nails or screws (even with pre-
                                                  drilled holes).

                                                  6. Lumber side cuts (rips down the length of the board) are solid.
                                                  - Plywood is a laminate that often has seams or voids between
                                                  layers.  These voids create holes in the top edge of the box and are
                                                  an entry point for weather and rot.  Filling these holes with paint
                                                  is time consuming or impossible.  Putty requires the finish box to be
                                                  sanded and thus adding time and expense.

                                                  7. Lumber is good for ripping rabbet edges for top bar ledge.
                                                  -Plywood splinters and also contains the holes discussed in #6.

                                                  8. Lumber is nice because fasteners will sink into the surface.
                                                  - Plywood requires all fastener holes to be complete pre-drilled. 
                                                  Even then some strikes of the hummer, or over set of a screw
                                                  splinters the plywood worse than the original cuts.
                                                  -Plywood separates when fasteners are end sunk, this is lessened when
                                                  predrilled, but so lessened is the fasteners strength. This
                                                  separation also creates surface bumps that are difficult to scrape on
                                                  the inside of hive bodies.

                                                  9. Lumber has a good weight/strength ratio.
                                                  - Plywood is naturally heavy because of all the glue that adheres it.

                                                  10. Lumber  has no glue.
                                                  - Plywood is assembled with glue.  It is your faith to trust the
                                                  chemicals that compose that glue to be safe enough to eat should it
                                                  find its way into your honey.

                                                  I'll only use lumber from now on though! &#61514;
                                                  Sammy Replies:  I would like to add one more thing about Plywood.  If you use pine it will bulckle when it gets wet even when painted.  To prevent this you would need to use Fir Plywood which again is expensive compared to lumber.  We tried Ply wood for bottoms and tops one year, couldn't get rid of them fast enough.  NEVER AGAIN.
                                                   
                                                  Sammy
                                                  The 2006 BEEKEEPER RECORD BOOK IS NOW AVAILABLE TO ORDER go to
                                                  Our web site: http://www.brownsbees.com  or http://brownsapiaries.com/
                                                  add your name to our Beekeepers Directory at http://brownsapiaries.com/addtolist.html
                                                  Subscribe to: AmericanBeeBreeders-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Other screen names I can be reached at: sammy@..., farmerbrown49@..., ASamBrown@... Host your Web site with BizLand!
                                                • Paul Rowland
                                                  And, as earlier mentioned, the bees just don t care what kind of wood they are living in. Regards, Dick Allen I ve seen the same statement many times in
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Nov 18, 2005
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                                                    And, as earlier mentioned, the bees just don't care what kind of wood they are
                                                    living in.

                                                    Regards,
                                                    Dick Allen

                                                     
                                                    I've seen the same statement many times in reference to bees. I've collected bees from a living tree where it is much easier for them to maintain homeostasis, the modern hives we keep them in are not to be compared to their natural preference, although forced to use what's at hand they've been known to build almost anywhere.
                                                    However, all the old-timers I've spoken with in the South robbed bees from trees and all of them robbed bees in various ways from living trees(think insulation, plant hydrology, phloem, xylem, cambium), these all contribute to bee's homeostasis. We shouldn't be placing them in anything except solid pine or other solid lumber.

                                                     
                                                    On 11/15/05, dickbeekeeper <dickbeekeeper@...> wrote:
                                                    For a couple more cents worth of opinion on the topic, many of my hives are
                                                    plywood. No ill effects noted.

                                                    Plywood scraps were readily available to me in the past where I worked.
                                                    Some of the hives were even made out of 3/8 inch plywood. A 3/8 inch strip
                                                    was glued and nailed to all edges of the plywood sheets before assembling.
                                                    3/8 + 3/8 makes 3/4, so they were completely interchangeable with any other
                                                    hive body. The 3/8 strips reinforced the edges and prevented warpage. The
                                                    strips also made for great hand holds.

                                                    Mine have held up fairly well (although, I'll admit there was some slight
                                                    occasional delamination on a few boxes).  A couple good coats of paint does
                                                    wonders for preserving any kind of wood, including plywood.

                                                    And, as earlier mentioned, the bees just don't care what kind of wood they are
                                                    living in.

                                                    Regards,
                                                    Dick Allen





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