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Italian/Carniolan

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  • raincrone@juno.com
    ... equally good, each with their own unique strong points. I have found the Italians & Carni s to be the most docile with the russians being a bit more
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 31, 2003
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      >I've had good luck with Italians, Carni's & Russians.  All
      three are equally good, >each with their own unique strong points.  I have found the Italians & Carni's to be >the most docile with the russians being a bit more protective of their hive.
       
      Within the limits of my understanding (I'm not yet living where I can 
      keep bees, but I'm determined to get there, and meanwhile I'm reading
      everything I can get my mitts on :-)), the Carniolans are a bit more likely
      to propolize the hive and the Italians are a bit more likely to go hive-
      robbing from time to time, but both are gentle and hardy.  Correct?
       
      Rain
      @@@@
       
    • Mike
      Rain @@@@ wrote: the Carniolans are a bit more likely to propolize the hive and the Italians are a bit more likely to go hive-robbing from time to
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 1, 2004
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        Rain
        @@@@
        wrote:  the Carniolans are a bit more likely to propolize the hive and the Italians are a bit more likely to go hive-robbing from time to time, but both are gentle and hardy.  Correct?
         
        All is/are generalities.  As I have read before, unfortunately bees can't read.  What you have referred to are the common traits but you're going to find exceptions all the time, especially when it is most disadvantageous.  I think with any of the strains of bees referred to in the previous mailing you will have good luck.  You just have to know the general propensities of the strain in general and manage the hive accordingly.  With any of the strains, especially the hybrids, you need to try to keep the strain true.  Some of the hybrids, and maybe some of the others, tend to get very feisty when the original queen is superceded and the replacement is a locally bred offspring of the original queen.  In most cases hybrids tend to bring out the best traits of the original parents, but in the case of a hybrid of a hybrid (in bees) it seems the population ends up very short tempered and difficult to deal with (needing to be requeened with a purchased queen).  Now remember, these are generalities and bees generally do not follow expectations unless you are an accomplished breeder and know what you are doing. 
         
        Rain, what are your living conditions?  I've heard of people keeping bees on the roofs of apartment buildings in cities.  And of course, you can always find someone in the country  who will let you keep a small apiary on their premises for five to ten pounds of honey per hive.  I would surely hate to see you delay getting your own hives because you think you don't have the locations to keep you hives.  Go to your local county agricultural agent and see if he/she can't direct you to a local beekeepers' club.  I know that most of them can help you get started as soon as you want to, regardless of your present circumstances.  Also, it's good to have a mentor, and beekeepers' clubs are a good source of these very helpful people.
         
        Good luck in your aspirations.   Mike   1/2 way between Montgomery and Mobile, Alabama
      • M Nist
        This brings up an interesting point that I hope we can discuss. How can you tell what breed of bee you have?? I started my hives last spring with nucs that I
        Message 3 of 7 , Jan 1, 2004
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          This brings up an interesting point that I hope we can discuss. How can you tell what "breed" of bee you have??

          I started my hives last spring with nucs that I got from a well-known supplier in my area. The queens were marked and the bees were very healthy. I never thought to ask what kind they were, I just wanted to hurry home and get started!

          After a few days I noticed that my worker bees were all colors. Some were very dark, almost black, others were a champagne color, some a deeper gold. They continued to be various colors all summer long. The black ones diminished a bit but pretty much things stayed the same.

          Here's what I think: I don't know how bee suppliers can guarantee that their queens are 100% of a single strain.
          Since virgin queens are notorious for picking up with multiple boyfriends on their maiden flights, who's to know exactly who she hooked up with? One queen breeding with several mystery drones would produce a spectrum of varieties in a single hive, right?

          I suspect that my bees -- and maybe yours :) -- are mutts. That doesn't bother me as long as they're productive, healthy and easy to work with.

          --Madeleine in NJ
          Beginning with Bees <http://www.blackcatnetworkhelp.net/beeblog.aspx/>

          At 01:52 AM 1/1/2004 -0500, you wrote:
          Within the limits of my understanding (I'm not yet living where I can
          keep bees, but I'm determined to get there, and meanwhile I'm reading
          everything I can get my mitts on :-)), the Carniolans are a bit more likely
          to propolize the hive and the Italians are a bit more likely to go hive-
          robbing from time to time, but both are gentle and hardy.  Correct?
           
          Rain
          @@@@
           \\\\\\
           


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        • nayblaine@cs.com
          ... I d say your queen mated with multiple drones of diverse races. Each worker (female) carries the genes of the queen mixed with the genes of the drone that
          Message 4 of 7 , Jan 1, 2004
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            M Nist <mnist@...> wrote:

            >After a few days I noticed that my worker bees
            >were all colors. Some were very dark, almost
            >black, others were a champagne color, some a
            >deeper gold. They continued to be various
            >colors all summer long. The black ones diminished
            >a bit but pretty much things stayed the same.

            I'd say your queen mated with multiple drones of diverse races. Each worker (female) carries the genes of the queen mixed with the genes of the drone that provided the sperm for that egg. Remember, however, that the drone comes from an unfertilized egg -- no father. The drones, therefore only carry the queen's genes. The color of the drones should give you a good idea of the queen's breeding. However, your hive over all seems to be mixed-breed. As long as the bees are easy to work with, productive, and you don't plan to use this qheen as a source of future queens, I wouldn't worry about it.

            Blaine Nay
            www.nay.org/beekeep.htm
          • nayblaine@cs.com
            ... As a teen in the 60s, I kept some hives on the roof of my parent s home -- in full, direct, day-long sun with no problems. ... During the same teen years
            Message 5 of 7 , Jan 1, 2004
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              "Mike" <mws@...> wrote:

              >I've heard of people keeping bees on the roofs
              >of apartment buildings in cities.


              As a teen in the '60s, I kept some hives on the roof of my parent's home -- in full, direct, day-long sun with no problems.


              >...you can always find someone in the country
              >who will let you keep a small apiary on their
              >premises for five to ten pounds of honey per
              >hive.


              During the same teen years mentioned above, I had several hives on two different farms -- one was a fruit orchard, the other raised beans. Both locations produced excellent honey and the farmers were happy to have the free polinization.

              Blaine Nay
              www,nay.org/beekeep.htm
            • Eileen Barnes
              Blaine, On roofs of apartments in cities?  Really!  Small cities?   Eileen Your help is urgently needed to save ENDANGERED SPECIES. Go to:
              Message 6 of 7 , Jan 1, 2004
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                Blaine,

                On roofs of apartments in cities?  Really!  Small cities?  

                Eileen


                Your help is urgently needed to save ENDANGERED SPECIES. Go to: http://www.care2.com/go/z/9509/1008
              • Martin Hickey
                Rain - Mike summed up the key points about different breeds of bees really well and concisely. I would add that bees are alot like people. - the all have very
                Message 7 of 7 , Jan 1, 2004
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                  Rain -
                   
                  Mike summed up the key points about different breeds of bees really well and concisely.  I would add that bees are alot like people. - the all have very different personalities and you have to get to know them and be able to read them.  I have two hives that I think nothing of opening and pulling frames no veil or gloves, my daughter has to be scolded not to brush bees off comb and steal honey from them - they are doscile and well behaved.  I have another hive which is fine until you try and remove a frame - then watch out - they will follow you the acre walk over to the house slamming into your hat and veil the entire way.  The others are the full spectra in between.  (breed not being an issue here)
                   
                  Oh, also, my carni's don't really propolize any more than my russians or my italians.
                   
                  As for your location and ability to have or work with bees, do you belong ot a beekeeping group.  If not, I would recommend you do so.  I am going into my third year as a beekeeper - not much experiance, but I also spent a year prior to starting - reading and visiting and working with folks who had bees.  I wanted to make sure that this was something I wanted to do before spending money and investing time.  IT was a great year and make my mind up quickly.  Personal mentorship is the best way to learn about anything and this is one hobby that it is almost a prerequisite.  So if you're not part of a group, I'd recommend joining one.
                   
                  Martin
                   
                   
                   


                  Mike <mws@...> wrote:
                   
                  Rain
                  @@@@
                  wrote:  the Carniolans are a bit more likely to propolize the hive and the Italians are a bit more likely to go hive-robbing from time to time, but both are gentle and hardy.  Correct?
                   
                  All is/are generalities.  As I have read before, unfortunately bees can't read.  What you have referred to are the common traits but you're going to find exceptions all the time, especially when it is most disadvantageous.  I think with any of the strains of bees referred to in the previous mailing you will have good luck.  You just have to know the general propensities of the strain in general and manage the hive accordingly.  With any of the strains, especially the hybrids, you need to try to keep the strain true.  Some of the hybrids, and maybe some of the others, tend to get very feisty when the original queen is superceded and the replacement is a locally bred offspring of the original queen.  In most cases hybrids tend to bring out the best traits of the original parents, but in the case of a hybrid of a hybrid (in bees) it seems the population ends up very short tempered and difficult to deal with (needing to be requeened with a purchased queen).  Now remember, these are generalities and bees generally do not follow expectations unless you are an accomplished breeder and know what you are doing. 
                   
                  Rain, what are your living conditions?  I've heard of people keeping bees on the roofs of apartment buildings in cities.  And of course, you can always find someone in the country  who will let you keep a small apiary on their premises for five to ten pounds of honey per hive.  I would surely hate to see you delay getting your own hives because you think you don't have the locations to keep you hives.  Go to your local county agricultural agent and see if he/she can't direct you to a local beekeepers' club.  I know that most of them can help you get started as soon as you want to, regardless of your present circumstances.  Also, it's good to have a mentor, and beekeepers' clubs are a good source of these very helpful people.
                   
                  Good luck in your aspirations.   Mike   1/2 way between Montgomery and Mobile, Alabama



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