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Re: First year extraction

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  • Larry D
    (new beekeeper here): So in the first year, if my have has two deeps full, queen excluder on top of those, and 2-3 medium supers full of honey, and it s still
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 23, 2013
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      (new beekeeper here):

      So in the first year, if my have has two deeps full, queen excluder on top of those, and 2-3 medium supers full of honey, and it's still mid-late August, soybeans are just now blooming all around, what? just add more mediums? Take of a medium and replace leaving 2-3 in place? At what time, if ever do I reduce the honey supers down to just the two brood boxes?

      Trying to be sure to balance space as last year, my first attempt the beetles left me with nothing but empty slimy boxes by fall.

      (oh and please note, many of us readers get the daily digest version of the messages, I cut out all the old text from previous quotes, it really helps some of us not to have a one word or one line "reply" followed by 100 lines of old quotes to scroll through..)


      --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, husztek <husztek@...> wrote:
      >
      > My main fear is that people start rushing out to their new hives and taking away food from the bees without any understanding that there isn't any extra helping for them.
      >
      > Remember. This is Robbing. And to do it in the critical first year just reduces the bees right to survive on their own work.
      >
      > In the first year it should be simple.
      > Leave the bees in peace!
      >
      > Thank,s
      >
      > Bill
    • mdudley
      I personally use the Freeman beetle trap. It kills about 100 beetles that try to come in the hive a week, and although I typically check the bees once a week,
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 23, 2013
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        I personally use the Freeman beetle trap. It kills about 100 beetles that try to come in the hive a week, and although I typically check the bees once a week, I have only seen one live beetle inside the hive this year.

        Marshall

        --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, "Larry D" <fireham@...> wrote:
        >
        > (new beekeeper here):
        >
        > So in the first year, if my have has two deeps full, queen excluder on top of those, and 2-3 medium supers full of honey, and it's still mid-late August, soybeans are just now blooming all around, what? just add more mediums? Take of a medium and replace leaving 2-3 in place? At what time, if ever do I reduce the honey supers down to just the two brood boxes?
        >
        > Trying to be sure to balance space as last year, my first attempt the beetles left me with nothing but empty slimy boxes by fall.
        >
        > (oh and please note, many of us readers get the daily digest version of the messages, I cut out all the old text from previous quotes, it really helps some of us not to have a one word or one line "reply" followed by 100 lines of old quotes to scroll through..)
      • kirkdehaan
        With all due respect we have not been doing this without help. A local beekeeper, in the business for 30 years, has been tutoring many of us and assures us it
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 23, 2013
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          With all due respect we have not been doing this without help. A local beekeeper, in the business for 30 years, has been tutoring many of us and assures us it is fine. We are not touching the deeps of which there are two. Maybe it is different in your climate.

          Kirk and Mary

          --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, husztek <husztek@...> wrote:
          >
          > My main fear is that people start rushing out to their new hives and taking away food from the bees without any understanding that there isn't any extra helping for them.
          >
          > Remember. This is Robbing. And to do it in the critical first year just reduces the bees right to survive on their own work.
          >
          > In the first year it should be simple.
          > Leave the bees in peace!
          >
          > Thank,s
          >
          > Bill
          >
          > ---- On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 17:05:12 -0700 Kewischjorg@... wrote ----
          >
          >
          > I am sure that Bill's reply was not meant to be as dark as it sounds. I see nothing wrong with harvesting a little honey in the first year; it is human to want to do that. Just make sure that the bees have enough food for the winter and feed sugar syrup (2:1 by weight) if necessary. I add food coloring to the syrup to make sure that I do not extract left-overs next harvest. Here on Long Island the rule is that a hive with 2 deeps should weigh 140 pounds in the fall. I have a hook in the bottom board and use a luggage scale to lift the back of the hive off the ground. The scale should then read 70 pounds.
          > Then you brace for the winter. On average there is a 30% loss. If you have only 2 hives the statistics says you may lose none or all, even if you do everything right. I have been lucky so far and I hope you are too. If not don't give up and increase the number of hives next year to harvest some and leave some.
          >
          > Jorg
          > ________________________________________
          > From: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com [Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of husztek [husztek@...]
          > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:41 PM
          > To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
          > Cc: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [Beekeeping] First year extraction
          >
          > Kirk and Mary,
          >
          > While you are at it you might as well,
          > go ahead and order up next year's bee packages.
          > You will need them.
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Bill
          >
          > ---- On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 20:18:32 -0700 kirkdehaancaptkirk@... wrote ----
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Our first year and first hive produced 2 gallons/25 lbs of good honey out of the first super. We still have another super on the hive to harvest later. We are learning as we go and are finding the kinks and resolving them but have a line of "customers" already. We decided that the first year is going to be like Christmas and give away to our friends and save for ourselves. BUT next year they will have to pay. :-)
          >
          > We have decided to go full force and be prepared for more hives next spring. We live rural Idaho and don't have any crops nearby that are sprayed so we hope to prosper. We already have locals asking for the honey.
          >
          > One thing we noticed is a distinct difference in the flavor compared to the "commercial" brands.
          >
          > WE like it!
          >
          > Kirk and Mary
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Bill Husztek
          > Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
          > 7558 Marshall Drive
          > Annandale, VA 22003
          > 703-573-8842
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Bill Husztek
          > Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
          > 7558 Marshall Drive
          > Annandale, VA 22003
          > 703-573-8842
          >
        • Kewisch, Jorg
          They say that if you have 4 beekeepers in a room you have 5 different opinions and they are all correct. in the end you have to decide for yourself. But the
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 23, 2013
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            They say that if you have 4 beekeepers in a room you have 5 different opinions and they are all correct. in the end you have to decide for yourself.
            But the truth is that all on this list are great and kind people. They care deeply about bees and want you to succeed.

            Jorg
            ________________________________________
            From: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com [Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of kirkdehaan [captkirk@...]
            Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 2:03 PM
            To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Beekeeping] Re: First year extraction

            With all due respect we have not been doing this without help. A local beekeeper, in the business for 30 years, has been tutoring many of us and assures us it is fine. We are not touching the deeps of which there are two. Maybe it is different in your climate.

            Kirk and Mary
          • mdudley
            I purchased a luggage scale from Amazon, and built an inexpensive hive scale yesterday from a tripod and a luggage scale. It seems to work pretty good, and is
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 27, 2013
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              I purchased a luggage scale from Amazon, and built an inexpensive hive scale yesterday from a tripod and a luggage scale.

              It seems to work pretty good, and is adjustable for uneven ground and various heights of the hives.

              The front of the hive body is even with the edge of the concrete block in front to form a pivot point right at the front, and then all I have to do is push down on the lever until the back of the hive lifts off the back of the block. Then I simply multiply the scale reading by 2 for the hive weight. This one weighs 120
              pound.

              A picture of it is here:

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Beekeeping/photos/album/573944970/pic/list

              Marshall

              --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, mdudley@... wrote:
              >
              > Thanks for the tip on the luggage scale. I have a hook on the rear of my bottom board and initially was using a fish scale to do the same thing. But it topped out months ago. I was unaware of the luggage scale, but that is exactly what I need.
              >
              > BTW for the physics to be right, the front support (pivot point) should end just under the front of the hive body, not the landing board. If you have the front of the bottom board that is extended beyond the hive body supported, the multiplier will be less than 2. If you want it exact the pivot point should be the same distance from the front of the hive body, as the hook is from the back of the hive body. Then the multiplier will be exactly 2.
              >
              > Marshall
              >
              > --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, "Kewisch, Jorg" <jorg@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I am sure that Bill's reply was not meant to be as dark as it sounds. I see nothing wrong with harvesting a little honey in the first year; it is human to want to do that. Just make sure that the bees have enough food for the winter and feed sugar syrup (2:1 by weight) if necessary. I add food coloring to the syrup to make sure that I do not extract left-overs next harvest. Here on Long Island the rule is that a hive with 2 deeps should weigh 140 pounds in the fall. I have a hook in the bottom board and use a luggage scale to lift the back of the hive off the ground. The scale should then read 70 pounds.
              > > Then you brace for the winter. On average there is a 30% loss. If you have only 2 hives the statistics says you may lose none or all, even if you do everything right. I have been lucky so far and I hope you are too. If not don't give up and increase the number of hives next year to harvest some and leave some.
              > >
              > > Jorg
              > > ________________________________________
              > > From: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com [Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of husztek [husztek@]
              > > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:41 PM
              > > To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
              > > Cc: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: Re: [Beekeeping] First year extraction
              > >
              > > Kirk and Mary,
              > >
              > > While you are at it you might as well,
              > > go ahead and order up next year's bee packages.
              > > You will need them.
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > >
              > > Bill
              > >
              > > ---- On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 20:18:32 -0700 kirkdehaan<captkirk@> wrote ----
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Our first year and first hive produced 2 gallons/25 lbs of good honey out of the first super. We still have another super on the hive to harvest later. We are learning as we go and are finding the kinks and resolving them but have a line of "customers" already. We decided that the first year is going to be like Christmas and give away to our friends and save for ourselves. BUT next year they will have to pay. :-)
              > >
              > > We have decided to go full force and be prepared for more hives next spring. We live rural Idaho and don't have any crops nearby that are sprayed so we hope to prosper. We already have locals asking for the honey.
              > >
              > > One thing we noticed is a distinct difference in the flavor compared to the "commercial" brands.
              > >
              > > WE like it!
              > >
              > > Kirk and Mary
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Bill Husztek
              > > Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
              > > 7558 Marshall Drive
              > > Annandale, VA 22003
              > > 703-573-8842
              > >
              >
            • husztek
              A very interesting idea. The luggage scale thingy. It looks like it will work, it sure beats my method all hollow. Now I gotta go buy a scale thingy. Regards
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 27, 2013
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                A very interesting idea.
                The luggage scale thingy.
                It looks like it will work,
                it sure beats my method all hollow.
                Now I gotta go buy a scale thingy.

                Regards the pivot point from front to back.
                Wouldn't you eliminate that consideration if you were to weigh it from side to side?

                Thanks,

                Bill

                ---- On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 07:36:29 -0700 <mdudley@...> wrote ----

                 

                I purchased a luggage scale from Amazon, and built an inexpensive hive scale yesterday from a tripod and a luggage scale.

                It seems to work pretty good, and is adjustable for uneven ground and various heights of the hives.

                The front of the hive body is even with the edge of the concrete block in front to form a pivot point right at the front, and then all I have to do is push down on the lever until the back of the hive lifts off the back of the block. Then I simply multiply the scale reading by 2 for the hive weight. This one weighs 120
                pound.

                A picture of it is here:

                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Beekeeping/photos/album/573944970/pic/list

                Marshall

                --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, mdudley@... wrote:
                >
                > Thanks for the tip on the luggage scale. I have a hook on the rear of my bottom board and initially was using a fish scale to do the same thing. But it topped out months ago. I was unaware of the luggage scale, but that is exactly what I need.
                >
                > BTW for the physics to be right, the front support (pivot point) should end just under the front of the hive body, not the landing board. If you have the front of the bottom board that is extended beyond the hive body supported, the multiplier will be less than 2. If you want it exact the pivot point should be the same distance from the front of the hive body, as the hook is from the back of the hive body. Then the multiplier will be exactly 2.
                >
                > Marshall
                >
                > --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, "Kewisch, Jorg" <jorg@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I am sure that Bill's reply was not meant to be as dark as it sounds. I see nothing wrong with harvesting a little honey in the first year; it is human to want to do that. Just make sure that the bees have enough food for the winter and feed sugar syrup (2:1 by weight) if necessary. I add food coloring to the syrup to make sure that I do not extract left-overs next harvest. Here on Long Island the rule is that a hive with 2 deeps should weigh 140 pounds in the fall. I have a hook in the bottom board and use a luggage scale to lift the back of the hive off the ground. The scale should then read 70 pounds.
                > > Then you brace for the winter. On average there is a 30% loss. If you have only 2 hives the statistics says you may lose none or all, even if you do everything right. I have been lucky so far and I hope you are too. If not don't give up and increase the number of hives next year to harvest some and leave some.
                > >
                > > Jorg
                > > ________________________________________
                > > From: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com [Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of husztek [husztek@]
                > > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:41 PM
                > > To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
                > > Cc: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: Re: [Beekeeping] First year extraction
                > >
                > > Kirk and Mary,
                > >
                > > While you are at it you might as well,
                > > go ahead and order up next year's bee packages.
                > > You will need them.
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > >
                > > Bill
                > >
                > > ---- On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 20:18:32 -0700 kirkdehaan<captkirk@> wrote ----
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Our first year and first hive produced 2 gallons/25 lbs of good honey out of the first super. We still have another super on the hive to harvest later. We are learning as we go and are finding the kinks and resolving them but have a line of "customers" already. We decided that the first year is going to be like Christmas and give away to our friends and save for ourselves. BUT next year they will have to pay. :-)
                > >
                > > We have decided to go full force and be prepared for more hives next spring. We live rural Idaho and don't have any crops nearby that are sprayed so we hope to prosper. We already have locals asking for the honey.
                > >
                > > One thing we noticed is a distinct difference in the flavor compared to the "commercial" brands.
                > >
                > > WE like it!
                > >
                > > Kirk and Mary
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Bill Husztek
                > > Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
                > > 7558 Marshall Drive
                > > Annandale, VA 22003
                > > 703-573-8842
                > >
                >




                Bill Husztek
                Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
                7558 Marshall Drive
                Annandale, VA 22003
                703-573-8842
              • mdudley
                Yes it would. Unfortunately my bees are hanging out on the front and sides, so am a little wary of doing it there. Also, because the tripod had 3 legs, one
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 27, 2013
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                  Yes it would. Unfortunately my bees are hanging out on the front and sides, so am a little wary of doing it there. Also, because the tripod had 3 legs, one of them goes somewhat under the hive (between the blocks), which will not fit in my case on the side due to the concrete block orientation. If they were on wood runners though that would probably work quite well.

                  Marshall

                  --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, husztek <husztek@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > A very interesting idea.
                  > The luggage scale thingy.
                  > It looks like it will work,
                  > it sure beats my method all hollow.
                  > Now I gotta go buy a scale thingy.
                  >
                  > Regards the pivot point from front to back.
                  > Wouldn't you eliminate that consideration if you were to weigh it from side to side?
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  >
                  > Bill
                  >
                  > ---- On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 07:36:29 -0700 mdudley@... wrote ----
                  >
                  >
                  > I purchased a luggage scale from Amazon, and built an inexpensive hive scale yesterday from a tripod and a luggage scale.
                  >
                  > It seems to work pretty good, and is adjustable for uneven ground and various heights of the hives.
                  >
                  > The front of the hive body is even with the edge of the concrete block in front to form a pivot point right at the front, and then all I have to do is push down on the lever until the back of the hive lifts off the back of the block. Then I simply multiply the scale reading by 2 for the hive weight. This one weighs 120
                  > pound.
                  >
                  > A picture of it is here:
                  >
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Beekeeping/photos/album/573944970/pic/list
                  >
                  > Marshall
                  >
                  > --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, mdudley@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Thanks for the tip on the luggage scale. I have a hook on the rear of my bottom board and initially was using a fish scale to do the same thing. But it topped out months ago. I was unaware of the luggage scale, but that is exactly what I need.
                  > >
                  > > BTW for the physics to be right, the front support (pivot point) should end just under the front of the hive body, not the landing board. If you have the front of the bottom board that is extended beyond the hive body supported, the multiplier will be less than 2. If you want it exact the pivot point should be the same distance from the front of the hive body, as the hook is from the back of the hive body. Then the multiplier will be exactly 2.
                  > >
                  > > Marshall
                  > >
                  > > --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, "Kewisch, Jorg" <jorg@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > I am sure that Bill's reply was not meant to be as dark as it sounds. I see nothing wrong with harvesting a little honey in the first year; it is human to want to do that. Just make sure that the bees have enough food for the winter and feed sugar syrup (2:1 by weight) if necessary. I add food coloring to the syrup to make sure that I do not extract left-overs next harvest. Here on Long Island the rule is that a hive with 2 deeps should weigh 140 pounds in the fall. I have a hook in the bottom board and use a luggage scale to lift the back of the hive off the ground. The scale should then read 70 pounds.
                  > > > Then you brace for the winter. On average there is a 30% loss. If you have only 2 hives the statistics says you may lose none or all, even if you do everything right. I have been lucky so far and I hope you are too. If not don't give up and increase the number of hives next year to harvest some and leave some.
                  > > >
                  > > > Jorg
                  > > > ________________________________________
                  > > > From: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com [Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of husztek [husztek@]
                  > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:41 PM
                  > > > To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Cc: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > Subject: Re: [Beekeeping] First year extraction
                  > > >
                  > > > Kirk and Mary,
                  > > >
                  > > > While you are at it you might as well,
                  > > > go ahead and order up next year's bee packages.
                  > > > You will need them.
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks,
                  > > >
                  > > > Bill
                  > > >
                  > > > ---- On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 20:18:32 -0700 kirkdehaan<captkirk@> wrote ----
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Yahoo! Our first year and first hive produced 2 gallons/25 lbs of good honey out of the first super. We still have another super on the hive to harvest later. We are learning as we go and are finding the kinks and resolving them but have a line of "customers" already. We decided that the first year is going to be like Christmas and give away to our friends and save for ourselves. BUT next year they will have to pay. :-)
                  > > >
                  > > > We have decided to go full force and be prepared for more hives next spring. We live rural Idaho and don't have any crops nearby that are sprayed so we hope to prosper. We already have locals asking for the honey.
                  > > >
                  > > > One thing we noticed is a distinct difference in the flavor compared to the "commercial" brands.
                  > > >
                  > > > WE like it!
                  > > >
                  > > > Kirk and Mary
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Bill Husztek
                  > > > Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
                  > > > 7558 Marshall Drive
                  > > > Annandale, VA 22003
                  > > > 703-573-8842
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Bill Husztek
                  > Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
                  > 7558 Marshall Drive
                  > Annandale, VA 22003
                  > 703-573-8842
                  >
                • Jorg Kewisch
                  Side to side works but I am more comfortable in the back. The method also assumes that the weight is evenly distributed, which is not always true. So the whole
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 27, 2013
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                    Side to side works but I am more comfortable in the back. The method
                    also assumes that the weight is evenly distributed, which is not always
                    true. So the whole measurement is only good within 5-10 %. But you would
                    not tell your bees: Hey, you got 1 pound too much, hand it over...

                    On 08/27/2013 01:35 PM, husztek wrote:

                    >
                    > Regards the pivot point from front to back.
                    > Wouldn't you eliminate that consideration if you were to weigh it from
                    > side to side?
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    >
                    > Bill
                    >
                  • mdudley
                    I don t consider high accuracy as important, but consistency (repeatability) is. That way it is easy to determine if they are putting up, or using, stores by
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 27, 2013
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                      I don't consider high accuracy as important, but consistency (repeatability) is. That way it is easy to determine if they are putting up, or using, stores by simply comparing measurements one or more days apart.

                      Marshall

                      --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, Jorg Kewisch <jorg@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Side to side works but I am more comfortable in the back. The method
                      > also assumes that the weight is evenly distributed, which is not always
                      > true. So the whole measurement is only good within 5-10 %. But you would
                      > not tell your bees: Hey, you got 1 pound too much, hand it over...
                      >
                      > On 08/27/2013 01:35 PM, husztek wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Regards the pivot point from front to back.
                      > > Wouldn't you eliminate that consideration if you were to weigh it from
                      > > side to side?
                      > >
                      > > Thanks,
                      > >
                      > > Bill
                      > >
                      >
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