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Re: [Beekeeping] Re: Illinois destroys hives with Roundupresistant bees

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  • husztek
    Tim, The old guy could be nutty as a professor. I m not at all sure that Monsanto is involved at any level. But you will forgive my cynicism, I live just
    Message 1 of 11 , May 27, 2013
      Tim,

      The old guy could be nutty as a professor.
      I'm not at all sure that Monsanto is involved at any level.

      But  you will forgive my cynicism, I live just inside the Washington, D.C. beltway.
      And I know its hard to believe that a government official could do anything bad, them being "public servants" and all.

      Again why the inspection in the dead of winter? If some idiot from the State came to me in that weather I'd probably be polite as I told him to come back when the temperature is above 50-deg.F.
      If he argued, or persisted, I'd have to call a cop, tell my wife to bring the 12 gauge and tell him to back off while I called in a bunch of other beekeepers and his boss to try to convince to me that the new processes of inspection wouldn't kill every last bee in the hive.

      No one had to pay off anyone for this to play out.
      We all have seen the cop shows where a policeman shoots an unarmed person and then tosses his own unregistered ankle gun onto the body. Thus an instant case of justifiable homicide. But that's all just on TV. Except this week in Alexandria it wasn't.

      And last week, a head of the IRS took the 5th Amendment as her response to Congress about the IRS targeting of those weirdos who opposed the President's election. Now, why would an honest government employee who had just gotten a $100,000.00 bonus in January for job excellence have to tell us that she couldn't tell us what she did while working so hard for us?

      So the idea of a little wrong doing by two inspectors who seem on the face of it to have little or no knowledge of bee hives covering one another's anal openings might in fact ring true.

      As for the USDA, and the lab results. Again, no I don't think they are guilty of collusion with the inspectors, but I'd need to see what they did and what they actually reported.

      As for the judge. If he is like most judges I've known he had half an hour to go over the case. He had to rely on the reports and the officials integrity as being sterling which only called into question the defendant's. He probably did the best he could, then went to lunch and forgot the whole case.

      By the way, I'm still hung up on how the Park Service suddenly found all the money they needed to keep the parks open after earlier telling us that they'd have to close because of budget sequestration. Seems that someone went back and looked and found a lot of money they weren't using.

      I guess I'm too close to the  belly of the beast. I tend to notice it has fleas.
      The bigger the beast, the bigger the fleas.

      Thanks,

      Bill

      ---- On Mon, 27 May 2013 18:10:07 -0700 Tim Arheit<tarheit@...> wrote ----

       

      Of course if you believe Monsanto paid off the local inspector, state inspector,  USDA bee lab, IA department of agriculture and the judge overseeing the case.... then there may be a story in that.
      That still doesn't explain why the facts represented in the story keep changing...

      Inspectors probably can't see the background 'ever present' level of AFB.  They would only notice the vegetative/active state of AFB.     One state actually has a AFB sniffing dog that can detect a single cell of AFB (vegetative state obviously)

      -Tim


      On 5/27/2013 8:50 PM, husztek wrote:
      9450977345.5058667183550286790@..." type="cite">  
      My question is this.
      Is there any truth to the experience levels of the "inspectors?"

      If what I read is true, they had no more experience than I did the day before I received my first package of bees. Pretty thin.

      And the question of coming out in below freezing weather to do an inspection.
      What is that about?

      As for AFB being present in the hive.
      Somewhere recently I read that AFB spores are ever-present in hives.
      That just their existence is no more serious than the bacteria which are in all of our mouths. Only when we die do they come out to eat us. Other than that they remain in balance.

      So the AFB might be a canard.

      Thanks,

      Bill

      ---- On Mon, 27 May 2013 10:17:36 -0700 Tim Arheit<tarheit@...> wrote ----

       

      It is the old story from last year.  Just rehashed by the media with the facts changed again to be more inflammatory than the original incorrect article.

      Local inspector found AFB.  Confirmed by again by the state inspector and finally be a lab test.   Beekeeper refused for many months do to anything about the problem.  Multiple notices were served and Indiana finally destroyed them as required by law.   The beekeeper was also found guilty in court.


      Interesting twist though....  The original article only claimed that he was doing research  saying that roundup was killing bees.   Only this new article claims the bees were resistant to roundup.    Other than these articles I've never seen any claims that roundup kills bees (except by direct spray, which shouldn't be surprising as a surfactant is typically used).


      On 5/27/2013 12:44 PM, mdudley@... wrote:
      ko02hi+ojqk@..." type="cite">  

      This is similar to the one from last year, but the date on this item was a couple of days ago. I thought it was a new story. Maybe it is the same story, not sure. But if Monsanto is involved, it can't be good.

      Marshall

      --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Glaenzer" <glaenzer@...> wrote:
      >
      > Didn't we hear this story, and find it was pretty much all hat and no cattle, a couple months ago ?
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: mdudley@...
      > To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 10:10 AM
      > Subject: [Beekeeping] Illinois destroys hives with Roundupresistant bees
      >
      >
      >
      > The hives of Terrence Ingram, a renowned naturalist, were burned and the queens killed illegally. They claim foulbrood in SOME of the hives but Ingram who said that they destroyed 15 years of research said that Monsanto is behind it and he could prove they did not have foulbrood. Apparently they did not want any competition for the roundup resistant bees they are working on.
      >
      > http://www.globalresearch.ca/illinois-illegally-seizes-bees-resistant-to-monsantos-roundup-kills-remaining-queens/5336210
      >
      > This is the second keeper in Illinois who claims that Illinois has destroyed bees which did not have foulbrood, claiming they did. In both cases the apiaries had bees which were resistant to poisons, or did not need them.
      >
      > If Monsanto does what they have done with farmers, they will likely try to breed bees immune to their poisons, then have the labeling changed to allow spraying on plants in bloom. Once all the local bees are killed, they will offer their resistant queens to save the beekeepers, and if the queen is superseded, or you catch a feral swarm which might have some of their genes in them, they will sue you for copyright infringement. That is what they are doing to the farmers who either grow crops from saved seeds, or inadvertently get their crops cross pollinated by pollen from another farmer's roundup ready crop.
      >
      > Marshall
      >





      Bill Husztek
      Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
      7558 Marshall Drive
      Annandale, VA 22003
      703-573-8842




      Bill Husztek
      Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
      7558 Marshall Drive
      Annandale, VA 22003
      703-573-8842
    • Thomas Janstrom
      As far as I know glyphosate in and of itself is not particularly harmful to non-plant species (it s mode of action is to disrupt the electron transfer system
      Message 2 of 11 , May 28, 2013
        As far as I know glyphosate in and of itself is not particularly harmful to non-plant species (it's mode of action is to disrupt the electron transfer system in chloroplasts after all), so most animals whether insect or mammal are more or less resistant to it anyway (anything in a high enough dose is harmful). So at normal agricultural rates the glyphosate itself should be ok for bees, it's the wetting agent that kills. We all know that you can kill a colony by spraying with soapy water, well this is no different.

        So if he had a gene line resistant to soap then that would really be something.

        Cheers, Thomas.

        <snip>


        Interesting twist though....  The original article only claimed that he was doing research  saying that roundup was killing bees.   Only this new article claims the bees were resistant to roundup.    Other than these articles I've never seen any claims that roundup kills bees (except by direct spray, which shouldn't be surprising as a surfactant is typically used).



        <snip>
      • mdudley
        Does anyone know if using Sethoxydim is a problem around bees? It is a selective herbicide which will kill grasses, and leave clover unharmed. I just planted
        Message 3 of 11 , May 28, 2013
          Does anyone know if using Sethoxydim is a problem around bees? It is a selective herbicide which will kill grasses, and leave clover unharmed. I just planted our back with clover, and know that grass weeds will soon start taking over.

          Thanks,

          Marshall

          --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Janstrom <t_janstrom@...> wrote:
          >
          > As far as I know glyphosate in and of itself is not particularly harmful
          > to non-plant species (it's mode of action is to disrupt the electron
          > transfer system in chloroplasts after all), so most animals whether
          > insect or mammal are more or less resistant to it anyway (anything in a
          > high enough dose is harmful). So at normal agricultural rates the
          > glyphosate itself should be ok for bees, it's the wetting agent that
          > kills. We all know that you can kill a colony by spraying with soapy
          > water, well this is no different.
          >
          > So if he had a gene line resistant to soap then that would really be
          > something.
          >
          > Cheers, Thomas.
          >
          > <snip>
          > >
          > >
          > > Interesting twist though.... The original article only claimed that
          > > he was doing research saying that roundup was killing bees. Only
          > > this new article claims the bees were resistant to roundup. Other
          > > than these articles I've never seen any claims that roundup kills bees
          > > (except by direct spray, which shouldn't be surprising as a surfactant
          > > is typically used).
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > <snip>
          >
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