Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

CCD linked to fructose corn syrup and pesticides

Expand Messages
  • mdudley
    Feeding of high fructose corn syrup has been linked to CCD. The mechanism appears to be that there are chemicals missing from the syrup that are in honey
    Message 1 of 19 , May 1 8:32 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      Feeding of high fructose corn syrup has been linked to CCD. The mechanism appears to be that there are chemicals missing from the syrup that are in honey which help the bees fight off toxins in pesticides.

      http://phys.org/news/2013-04-high-fructose-corn-syrup-tied-worldwide.html

      Although I saw no mention of it, it seems to me that sugar syrup would have a similar effect.

      Marshall
    • mdudley
      Additional information on this: http://news.yahoo.com/best-rx-bees-own-honey-214615930.html Marshall
      Message 2 of 19 , May 1 8:45 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Additional information on this:

        http://news.yahoo.com/best-rx-bees-own-honey-214615930.html

        Marshall



        --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, mdudley@... wrote:
        >
        > Feeding of high fructose corn syrup has been linked to CCD. The mechanism appears to be that there are chemicals missing from the syrup that are in honey which help the bees fight off toxins in pesticides.
        >
        > http://phys.org/news/2013-04-high-fructose-corn-syrup-tied-worldwide.html
        >
        > Although I saw no mention of it, it seems to me that sugar syrup would have a similar effect.
        >
        > Marshall
        >
      • Mike S
        ... WHO is doing the reporting?  The media.  What is their main concern right now?  Survival.  Some of the printed media is collapsing due to lack of
        Message 3 of 19 , May 1 9:01 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          >>>    Feeding of high fructose corn syrup has been linked to CCD.

          WHO is doing the reporting?  The media.  What is their main concern right now?  Survival.  Some of the printed media is collapsing due to lack of readership, or going through reduced publication volume.  As a result they are continually exploiting "alarmist" topics, blowing up the severity of some or a lot of events to increase an interest in their publications and to increase their readership.   And, because they deem it unimportant in increasing their volume of sales are failing to report some events of public concern.  This is also true of a lot of the airwave media, both conservative and liberal.   It seems to me that the "news" is now more about survival of the reporting sources than it is about the dispersal of correct and pertinent news.

          If you believe most of what you read and hear in the media I would suggest that you are naive.   Don't believe half of what you read and/or hear from the media unless it is corroborated by three or four different and divergent sources.  And even then be a little skeptical.   HFCS and sucrose (sugar) have about as much to do with CCD as the advent of the iPod into public use has an affect on CCD.  If I recall, seems as if the iPod boom occurred about the same time as CCD appeared.

          Mike in LA
        • Mike S
          ... Feeding back honey to the hives is great except if you have disease in any of the sources of honey that you use for feed.  Unless you KNOW that your honey
          Message 4 of 19 , May 1 9:11 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            >>>   Additional information on this: (another internet link) suggesting feeding honey back to hives instead of HFCS or sugar syrup.  

            Feeding back honey to the hives is great except if you have disease in any of the sources of honey that you use for feed.  Unless you KNOW that your honey sources are not infected with disease, it is a very iffy tactic to feed back honey from other hives.   Feeding back honey to a hive from honey previously take from it would be best, probably.   Then, feeding sugar syrup that has been properly prepared would be second best because there would probably be no disease organisms to be found in the syrup before utilization by the bees.   (NOTE: Overheating sugar syrup can be very detrimental to bee health.)  HFCS would be a third choice because of the problems that can occur with it from preparation, storage, and/or handling.  Ya gotta know what yere doin' if you use HFCS.  There are too many ways you can harm your bees using that if you don't know all the possible problems, especially if you are overwintering with it.

            Mike in LA
          • Tim Arheit
            from the article: Although this change alone may not prevent colony collapses, anything that strengthens the bees could help, Evans said. So in short, this
            Message 5 of 19 , May 1 9:12 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              from the article: "Although this change alone may not prevent colony collapses, anything that strengthens the bees could help, Evans said."

              So in short, this is, at best, one persons guess a a possible contributing factor.  It may or may not cause or even be part of the problem, and avoiding corn syrup may or may not help at all.


              On 5/1/2013 11:45 AM, mdudley@... wrote:
               

              Additional information on this:

              http://news.yahoo.com/best-rx-bees-own-honey-214615930.html

              Marshall

              --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, mdudley@... wrote:
              >
              > Feeding of high fructose corn syrup has been linked to CCD. The mechanism appears to be that there are chemicals missing from the syrup that are in honey which help the bees fight off toxins in pesticides.
              >
              > http://phys.org/news/2013-04-high-fructose-corn-syrup-tied-worldwide.html
              >
              > Although I saw no mention of it, it seems to me that sugar syrup would have a similar effect.
              >
              > Marshall
              >


            • husztek
              Actually, Mike you would be wrong. The Ipad was a relative late comer compared to CCD or its related ills. And, I have long wondered the following. If cane and
              Message 6 of 19 , May 1 9:13 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                Actually, Mike you would be wrong.

                The Ipad was a relative late comer compared to CCD or its related ills.

                And, I have long wondered the following.
                If cane and beet sugar, and corn syrup are just as good for our bees, why don't we have naturally evolved bee varieties which produce them?

                So, we would have, sugar bees, syrup bees, and honey bees.

                Thanks,

                Bill

                ---- On Wed, 01 May 2013 09:01:48 -0700 Mike S<mws1112004@...> wrote ----

                 

                >>>    Feeding of high fructose corn syrup has been linked to CCD.

                WHO is doing the reporting?  The media.  What is their main concern right now?  Survival.  Some of the printed media is collapsing due to lack of readership, or going through reduced publication volume.  As a result they are continually exploiting "alarmist" topics, blowing up the severity of some or a lot of events to increase an interest in their publications and to increase their readership.   And, because they deem it unimportant in increasing their volume of sales are failing to report some events of public concern.  This is also true of a lot of the airwave media, both conservative and liberal.   It seems to me that the "news" is now more about survival of the reporting sources than it is about the dispersal of correct and pertinent news.

                If you believe most of what you read and hear in the media I would suggest that you are naive.   Don't believe half of what you read and/or hear from the media unless it is corroborated by three or four different and divergent sources.  And even then be a little skeptical.   HFCS and sucrose (sugar) have about as much to do with CCD as the advent of the iPod into public use has an affect on CCD.  If I recall, seems as if the iPod boom occurred about the same time as CCD appeared.

                Mike in LA




                Bill Husztek
                Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
                7558 Marshall Drive
                Annandale, VA 22003
                703-573-8842
              • husztek
                Mike, Again I have to take exception with you. On the question of feeding back honey, I have often heard the unknown disease argument made to discourage its
                Message 7 of 19 , May 1 9:20 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Mike,

                  Again I have to take exception with you.
                  On the question of feeding back honey, I have often heard the "unknown disease" argument made to discourage its practice.
                  But, I haven't to this date met anyone who could tell me that he/she had ever lost a hive from feeding back honey to the bees.
                  I do know that really prosperous hives often go on raiding expeditions against less powerful hives, we call it robbing.
                  In this case, the behavior over the honey can be fatal to the weaker hive which starves in the winter. As to the strong hive, I don't know of any who's failure can be credited to the stolen "unknown" honey.

                  Thanks,

                  Bill

                  ---- On Wed, 01 May 2013 09:11:19 -0700 Mike S<mws1112004@...> wrote ----

                   

                  >>>   Additional information on this: (another internet link) suggesting feeding honey back to hives instead of HFCS or sugar syrup.  

                  Feeding back honey to the hives is great except if you have disease in any of the sources of honey that you use for feed.  Unless you KNOW that your honey sources are not infected with disease, it is a very iffy tactic to feed back honey from other hives.   Feeding back honey to a hive from honey previously take from it would be best, probably.   Then, feeding sugar syrup that has been properly prepared would be second best because there would probably be no disease organisms to be found in the syrup before utilization by the bees.   (NOTE: Overheating sugar syrup can be very detrimental to bee health.)  HFCS would be a third choice because of the problems that can occur with it from preparation, storage, and/or handling.  Ya gotta know what yere doin' if you use HFCS.  There are too many ways you can harm your bees using that if you don't know all the possible problems, especially if you are overwintering with it.

                  Mike in LA




                  Bill Husztek
                  Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
                  7558 Marshall Drive
                  Annandale, VA 22003
                  703-573-8842
                • John Myrah
                  Bill, Mike said IPod, not Ipad which is correct. With regard to the media Mike is spot on. We have an enormous problem with a very biased media more bent on
                  Message 8 of 19 , May 1 9:23 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Bill, Mike said IPod, not Ipad which is correct. With regard to the media Mike is spot on. We have an enormous problem with a very biased media more bent on their political and financial goals then reporting the facts in a fair and truthful manner.
                     
                    Take care, John
                     

                    To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
                    CC: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
                    From: husztek@...
                    Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 09:13:06 -0700
                    Subject: Re: [Beekeeping] CCD linked to fructose corn syrup and pesticides

                     
                    Actually, Mike you would be wrong.

                    The Ipad was a relative late comer compared to CCD or its related ills.

                    And, I have long wondered the following.
                    If cane and beet sugar, and corn syrup are just as good for our bees, why don't we have naturally evolved bee varieties which produce them?

                    So, we would have, sugar bees, syrup bees, and honey bees.

                    Thanks,

                    Bill

                    ---- On Wed, 01 May 2013 09:01:48 -0700 Mike S<mws1112004@...> wrote ----

                     


                    >>>    Feeding of high fructose corn syrup has been linked to CCD.

                    WHO is doing the reporting?  The media.  What is their main concern right now?  Survival.  Some of the printed media is collapsing due to lack of readership, or going through reduced publication volume.  As a result they are continually exploiting "alarmist" topics, blowing up the severity of some or a lot of events to increase an interest in their publications and to increase their readership.   And, because they deem it unimportant in increasing their volume of sales are failing to report some events of public concern.  This is also true of a lot of the airwave media, both conservative and liberal.   It seems to me that the "news" is now more about survival of the reporting sources than it is about the dispersal of correct and pertinent news.

                    If you believe most of what you read and hear in the media I would suggest that you are naive.   Don't believe half of what you read and/or hear from the media unless it is corroborated by three or four different and divergent sources.  And even then be a little skeptical.   HFCS and sucrose (sugar) have about as much to do with CCD as the advent of the iPod into public use has an affect on CCD.  If I recall, seems as if the iPod boom occurred about the same time as CCD appeared.

                    Mike in LA




                    Bill Husztek
                    Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
                    7558 Marshall Drive
                    Annandale, VA 22003
                    703-573-8842

                  • Tim Arheit
                    Honey really isn t produced as such (not like cane or beet sugar or corn syrup is in any case). The primary process is collecting nectar and condensing it.
                    Message 9 of 19 , May 1 9:36 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Honey really isn't produced as such (not like cane or beet sugar or corn syrup is in any case).   The primary process is collecting nectar and condensing it.   If beets or corn produced the raw sugary liquid, bees will happily gather it as well, just as they do with some tree sap and the sugary excretions of aphids.

                      Corn Syrup, and sugar from beets or sugar cane are also very new on the evolutionary scale (perhaps 10,000 years for the first sugar cane,  200 for beet and 60 for corn syrup.   Given this and the relatively small geographic area these crops are found in and the dependance on humans  vs. the millions of years honey bees took to evolve, we certainly can't expect to see bees specialized to utilize these new crops directly any time soon.



                      On 5/1/2013 12:13 PM, husztek wrote:
                       
                      Actually, Mike you would be wrong.

                      The Ipad was a relative late comer compared to CCD or its related ills.

                      And, I have long wondered the following.
                      If cane and beet sugar, and corn syrup are just as good for our bees, why don't we have naturally evolved bee varieties which produce them?

                      So, we would have, sugar bees, syrup bees, and honey bees.

                      Thanks,

                      Bill

                      ---- On Wed, 01 May 2013 09:01:48 -0700 Mike S<mws1112004@...> wrote ----

                       
                      >>>    Feeding of high fructose corn syrup has been linked to CCD.

                      WHO is doing the reporting?  The media.  What is their main concern right now?  Survival.  Some of the printed media is collapsing due to lack of readership, or going through reduced publication volume.  As a result they are continually exploiting "alarmist" topics, blowing up the severity of some or a lot of events to increase an interest in their publications and to increase their readership.   And, because they deem it unimportant in increasing their volume of sales are failing to report some events of public concern.  This is also true of a lot of the airwave media, both conservative and liberal.   It seems to me that the "news" is now more about survival of the reporting sources than it is about the dispersal of correct and pertinent news.

                      If you believe most of what you read and hear in the media I would suggest that you are naive.   Don't believe half of what you read and/or hear from the media unless it is corroborated by three or four different and divergent sources.  And even then be a little skeptical.   HFCS and sucrose (sugar) have about as much to do with CCD as the advent of the iPod into public use has an affect on CCD.  If I recall, seems as if the iPod boom occurred about the same time as CCD appeared.

                      Mike in LA



                      Bill Husztek
                      Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
                      7558 Marshall Drive
                      Annandale, VA 22003
                      703-573-8842

                    • mdudley
                      ... Everything is media, so not sure what you are saying here. Even this group can be considered media. Do you mean mainstream media? In that case the
                      Message 10 of 19 , May 1 9:42 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, Mike S <mws1112004@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >>>    Feeding of high fructose corn syrup has been linked to CCD.
                        >
                        > WHO is doing the reporting?  The media. 

                        Everything is media, so not sure what you are saying here. Even this group can be considered media. Do you mean mainstream media? In that case the report was done by physics org, which is a scientific organization which publishes a journal, not mainstream media.

                        > What is their main concern right now?  Survival.  Some of the printed media is collapsing due to lack of readership, or going through reduced publication volume.

                        I don't follow mainstream media at all, they have proven to be pathological liars time and again. I don't put the scientific research groups and scientific organizations into that camp, at least not completely.

                        >  As a result they are continually exploiting "alarmist" topics, blowing up the severity of some or a lot of events to increase an interest in their publications and to increase their readership. 

                        The readership for that scientific journal are primarily physicists and scientists. I don't believe they do alarmist to get readership, as their focus is very narrow. Anyway, what was alarmist about the article? Do you not believe that CCD is occurring for some beekeepers, or do you believe that finding a cause is alarmist. I don't feel either are.

                        >  And, because they deem it unimportant in increasing their volume of sales are failing to report some events of public concern. 

                        Sales???? Sales of what, they are a scientific journal, they don't sell anything other than membership in the organization.

                        > This is also true of a lot of the airwave media, both conservative and liberal.   It seems to me that the "news" is now more about survival of the reporting sources than it is about the dispersal of correct and pertinent news.

                        Don't know, haven't listened to any of them in years, gave on on them long ago.

                        But they might be on to something. I am aware of a number of beekeepers who have for years now been completely free of CCD, mites and many have no problem with hive beetles either. Once is Michael Bush. All follow a natural method, no chemicals in the hives, and no feeding of anything other than honey, and locally acclimated stock. They also regress to small cell. They are doing something right since they are seeing a nominal 2 to 5% per year loss, when others are reporting over 50% some years. Don't know which thing they are doing that works, or what combination, but I do know they are have tremendous success where others are having problems.

                        Marshall

                        >
                        > If you believe most of what you read and hear in the media I would suggest that you are naive.   Don't believe half of what you read and/or hear from the media unless it is corroborated by three or four different and divergent sources.  And even then be a little skeptical.   HFCS and sucrose (sugar) have about as much to do with CCD as the advent of the iPod into public use has an affect on CCD.  If I recall, seems as if the iPod boom occurred about the same time as CCD appeared.
                        >
                        > Mike in LA
                        >
                      • Tim Arheit
                        It really shouldn t be stated as an unknown disease. The main threat to feeding honey, buying used equipment, etc. is well known and documented. It s
                        Message 11 of 19 , May 1 9:47 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          It really shouldn't be stated as an 'unknown' disease.   The main threat to feeding honey, buying used equipment, etc. is well known and documented.  It's simply American Foul brood.   It's taken seriously because it's highly contagious and easy to spread and cannot be killed by pasteurizing honey.   And the only real cure is sterilizing the hive (fire, irradiation, autoclave)

                          Fortunately, in states with inspection programs it's not very common.  Here in Ohio the report for 2012 showed only .28% of hives were found with foul brood (47 out of 16,646).

                          So your odds of spreading it are low, and even when you do it may not show up immediately or even for months or years so tying it to the honey you fed earlier would be difficult. 

                          Feeding honey purchased from others isn't common practice due mostly cost, but if it were those 47 colonies in Ohio could easily infect many many more just in the first year.


                          On 5/1/2013 12:20 PM, husztek wrote:
                           
                          Mike,

                          Again I have to take exception with you.
                          On the question of feeding back honey, I have often heard the "unknown disease" argument made to discourage its practice.
                          But, I haven't to this date met anyone who could tell me that he/she had ever lost a hive from feeding back honey to the bees.
                          I do know that really prosperous hives often go on raiding expeditions against less powerful hives, we call it robbing.
                          In this case, the behavior over the honey can be fatal to the weaker hive which starves in the winter. As to the strong hive, I don't know of any who's failure can be credited to the stolen "unknown" honey.

                          Thanks,

                          Bill

                          ---- On Wed, 01 May 2013 09:11:19 -0700 Mike S<mws1112004@...> wrote ----

                           
                          >>>   Additional information on this: (another internet link) suggesting feeding honey back to hives instead of HFCS or sugar syrup.  

                          Feeding back honey to the hives is great except if you have disease in any of the sources of honey that you use for feed.  Unless you KNOW that your honey sources are not infected with disease, it is a very iffy tactic to feed back honey from other hives.   Feeding back honey to a hive from honey previously take from it would be best, probably.   Then, feeding sugar syrup that has been properly prepared would be second best because there would probably be no disease organisms to be found in the syrup before utilization by the bees.   (NOTE: Overheating sugar syrup can be very detrimental to bee health.)  HFCS would be a third choice because of the problems that can occur with it from preparation, storage, and/or handling.  Ya gotta know what yere doin' if you use HFCS.  There are too many ways you can harm your bees using that if you don't know all the possible problems, especially if you are overwintering with it.

                          Mike in LA



                          Bill Husztek
                          Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
                          7558 Marshall Drive
                          Annandale, VA 22003
                          703-573-8842

                        • Mike S
                          ... Sorry, you misread.   I wrote iPod, not iPad,  O  not A., Mike in LA
                          Message 12 of 19 , May 1 10:06 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            >>>>    you would be wrong.  The iPad was a relative late comer

                            Sorry, you misread.   I wrote iPod, not iPad,  O  not A.,

                            Mike in LA
                          • Mike S
                            ... You do now.    I lost most of a yard due to bees robbing from infected hives, my own.  Thought I was smarted than the general consensus of opinion
                            Message 13 of 19 , May 1 10:09 AM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              >>>   I don't know of any who's failure can be credited to the stolen "unknown" honey.

                              You do now.  <GRIN>  I lost most of a yard due to bees robbing from infected hives, my own.  Thought I was smarted than the general consensus of opinion and it cost me dearly.   Lesson learned.

                              Mike in LA
                            • Gary Glaenzer
                              You know, this study really calls for a good fisking, there are so many holes, conjectures, SWAG s and logical fallacies, but I ll just quote the one which
                              Message 14 of 19 , May 1 10:23 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                You know, this 'study' really calls for a good fisking, there are so many holes, conjectures, SWAG's and logical fallacies, but I'll just quote the one which really, REALLY stood out as the ultimate in journalistic malpractice:
                                 
                                "their findings indicate that by eating the replacement food instead of honey, the bees are not being exposed to other chemicals that help the bees fight off toxins, such as those found in pesticides. "
                                 
                                Let us carry this through to its logical conclusion:
                                 
                                You have a colony which is short of honey, and which will not make it thru the cold months without some feeding
                                 
                                You have chosen NOT to feed back honey due to the disease risk.
                                 
                                SO
                                 
                                Your choices are:
                                 
                                Feed HFCS and 'not expose the bees to other chemicals that help the bees fight off toxins' blah-blah blah
                                 
                                or
                                 
                                Let them starve
                                 
                                Right, we'd rather let them starve, correct ?
                                 
                                DOH !!!!!!!
                                 
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 10:32 AM
                                Subject: [Beekeeping] CCD linked to fructose corn syrup and pesticides

                                 

                                Feeding of high fructose corn syrup has been linked to CCD. The mechanism appears to be that there are chemicals missing from the syrup that are in honey which help the bees fight off toxins in pesticides.

                                http://phys.org/news/2013-04-high-fructose-corn-syrup-tied-worldwide.html

                                Although I saw no mention of it, it seems to me that sugar syrup would have a similar effect.

                                Marshall

                              • Kakerby
                                Been watching this conversation, and aside from getting a good laugh about the strong link to iPods, I too question whether this research is all that solid.
                                Message 15 of 19 , May 1 10:42 AM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Been watching this conversation, and aside from getting a good laugh about the strong link to iPods, I too question whether this research is all that solid.  There have been 1001 reasons trotted out so far, in a variety of publications, about what's causing CCD.  Some of those publications are peer-reviewed research which have either shown a variety of different possibilities and no clear-cut answer, or had holes in them big enough to drive a truck through the theories, methods, and/or conclusions.  Other "research" has been little more than wild claims made by this-or-that "expert", who may or may not have done any hard core investigations other than gathering any anecdotal data that happened to agree with the theory du jour.  

                                  If the research and/or beekeeping communities as a whole had found solid, documented, demonstrated, repeatable and consistent evidence that X, Y and/or Z was definitively linked to CCD, we'd be seeing the same reports in every single publication and media outlet from Bee Culture to various USDA publications to Science News to the NYTimes.  Fox News and Infowars would carry it too, with the spin that it was a clandestine plot to overthrow Ma Nature, from whomever was in office at the time.  

                                  This has to be one of the biggest issues in farming today (and as a farmer I can say that few if any issues trumps this one in terms of national significance and financial/environmental implications).  If someone had the answer, we'd be seeing that answer posted everywhere.  Sadly, most of these reports are still little more than circumstantial evidence.  My bet, which is worth exactly $0.02, is that we'll eventually find it's a combination of stressors which alone are not enough to doom a hive.  But added together, are besting a lot of our hives.  And that the solution(s), will involve a very careful re-thinking of our entire conventional industrial agricultural system, along with our society's fixation on pretty lawns and gardens, beneficial-insects-be-damned.  But that's just my hunch.  I won't hold my breath for us to come to that conclusion any time soon. Magic bullet answers are entirely too sexy, fit into a 30 second sound bite so conveniently, and give us the illusion of a quickie solution that we just have to go deploy.  So those are the theories and solutions I suspect we'll continue to see.
                                  Kathryn Kerby
                                  frogchorusfarm.com
                                  Snohomish, WA



                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Gary Glaenzer <glaenzer@...>
                                  To: Beekeeping <Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Wed, May 1, 2013 10:23 am
                                  Subject: Re: [Beekeeping] CCD linked to fructose corn syrup and pesticides

                                   
                                  You know, this 'study' really calls for a good fisking, there are so many holes, conjectures, SWAG's and logical fallacies, but I'll just quote the one which really, REALLY stood out as the ultimate in journalistic malpractice:
                                   
                                  "their findings indicate that by eating the replacement food instead of honey, the bees are not being exposed to other chemicals that help the bees fight off toxins, such as those found in pesticides. "
                                   
                                  Let us carry this through to its logical conclusion:
                                   
                                  You have a colony which is short of honey, and which will not make it thru the cold months without some feeding
                                   
                                  You have chosen NOT to feed back honey due to the disease risk.
                                   
                                  SO
                                   
                                  Your choices are:
                                   
                                  Feed HFCS and 'not expose the bees to other chemicals that help the bees fight off toxins' blah-blah blah
                                   
                                  or
                                   
                                  Let them starve
                                   
                                  Right, we'd rather let them starve, correct ?
                                   
                                  DOH !!!!!!!
                                   
                                   
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 10:32 AM
                                  Subject: [Beekeeping] CCD linked to fructose corn syrup and pesticides

                                   
                                  Feeding of high fructose corn syrup has been linked to CCD. The mechanism appears to be that there are chemicals missing from the syrup that are in honey which help the bees fight off toxins in pesticides.

                                  http://phys.org/news/2013-04-high-fructose-corn-syrup-tied-worldwide.html

                                  Although I saw no mention of it, it seems to me that sugar syrup would have a similar effect.

                                  Marshall

                                • Gary Glaenzer
                                  Hello Kathryn; My congratulations and thanks, for your being able to express, in much more diplomatic language, what I was saying. Gary ... From: Kakerby To:
                                  Message 16 of 19 , May 1 10:46 AM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    
                                    Hello Kathryn;
                                     
                                    My congratulations and thanks, for your being able to express, in much more diplomatic language, what I was saying.
                                     
                                    Gary
                                     
                                     
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Kakerby
                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 12:42 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [Beekeeping] CCD linked to fructose corn syrup and pesticides

                                     

                                    Been watching this conversation, and aside from getting a good laugh about the strong link to iPods, I too question whether this research is all that solid.  There have been 1001 reasons trotted out so far, in a variety of publications, about what's causing CCD.  Some of those publications are peer-reviewed research which have either shown a variety of different possibilities and no clear-cut answer, or had holes in them big enough to drive a truck through the theories, methods, and/or conclusions.  Other "research" has been little more than wild claims made by this-or-that "expert", who may or may not have done any hard core investigations other than gathering any anecdotal data that happened to agree with the theory du jour.  


                                    If the research and/or beekeeping communities as a whole had found solid, documented, demonstrated, repeatable and consistent evidence that X, Y and/or Z was definitively linked to CCD, we'd be seeing the same reports in every single publication and media outlet from Bee Culture to various USDA publications to Science News to the NYTimes.  Fox News and Infowars would carry it too, with the spin that it was a clandestine plot to overthrow Ma Nature, from whomever was in office at the time.  

                                    This has to be one of the biggest issues in farming today (and as a farmer I can say that few if any issues trumps this one in terms of national significance and financial/environmental implications).  If someone had the answer, we'd be seeing that answer posted everywhere.  Sadly, most of these reports are still little more than circumstantial evidence.  My bet, which is worth exactly $0.02, is that we'll eventually find it's a combination of stressors which alone are not enough to doom a hive.  But added together, are besting a lot of our hives.  And that the solution(s), will involve a very careful re-thinking of our entire conventional industrial agricultural system, along with our society's fixation on pretty lawns and gardens, beneficial-insects-be-damned.  But that's just my hunch.  I won't hold my breath for us to come to that conclusion any time soon. Magic bullet answers are entirely too sexy, fit into a 30 second sound bite so conveniently, and give us the illusion of a quickie solution that we just have to go deploy.  So those are the theories and solutions I suspect we'll continue to see.
                                    Kathryn Kerby
                                    frogchorusfarm.com
                                    Snohomish, WA



                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Gary Glaenzer <glaenzer@...>
                                    To: Beekeeping <Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Wed, May 1, 2013 10:23 am
                                    Subject: Re: [Beekeeping] CCD linked to fructose corn syrup and pesticides

                                     
                                    You know, this 'study' really calls for a good fisking, there are so many holes, conjectures, SWAG's and logical fallacies, but I'll just quote the one which really, REALLY stood out as the ultimate in journalistic malpractice:
                                     
                                    "their findings indicate that by eating the replacement food instead of honey, the bees are not being exposed to other chemicals that help the bees fight off toxins, such as those found in pesticides. "
                                     
                                    Let us carry this through to its logical conclusion:
                                     
                                    You have a colony which is short of honey, and which will not make it thru the cold months without some feeding
                                     
                                    You have chosen NOT to feed back honey due to the disease risk.
                                     
                                    SO
                                     
                                    Your choices are:
                                     
                                    Feed HFCS and 'not expose the bees to other chemicals that help the bees fight off toxins' blah-blah blah
                                     
                                    or
                                     
                                    Let them starve
                                     
                                    Right, we'd rather let them starve, correct ?
                                     
                                    DOH !!!!!!!
                                     
                                     
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2013 10:32 AM
                                    Subject: [Beekeeping] CCD linked to fructose corn syrup and pesticides

                                     
                                    Feeding of high fructose corn syrup has been linked to CCD. The mechanism appears to be that there are chemicals missing from the syrup that are in honey which help the bees fight off toxins in pesticides.

                                    http://phys.org/news/2013-04-high-fructose-corn-syrup-tied-worldwide.html

                                    Although I saw no mention of it, it seems to me that sugar syrup would have a similar effect.

                                    Marshall

                                  • husztek
                                    Tom, Given that AFB spores are literally everywhere, and are routinely found in and about un-infected hives. Practically can only be destroyed with extreme
                                    Message 17 of 19 , May 1 5:49 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Tom,

                                      Given that AFB spores are literally everywhere, and are routinely found in and about un-infected hives. Practically can only be destroyed with extreme heat, I wonder if it is in and of itself really "highly contagious."

                                      Practically speaking each of us is host to a thousand different animaux which could kill us if given the chance. It is our immune system which defeats them until it is compromised. Then they get us.

                                      As unpleasant as the thought is, when we finally die, the first places which are eaten away by these critters are our mouths and viscera. They live there held in place until we no longer limit them.

                                      AFB spores are no less opportunistic. Nor likely any more contagious.

                                      Thanks,

                                      Bill


                                      ---- On Wed, 01 May 2013 09:47:35 -0700 Tim Arheit <tarheit@...> wrote ----

                                       

                                      It really shouldn't be stated as an 'unknown' disease.   The main threat to feeding honey, buying used equipment, etc. is well known and documented.  It's simply American Foul brood.   It's taken seriously because it's highly contagious and easy to spread and cannot be killed by pasteurizing honey.   And the only real cure is sterilizing the hive (fire, irradiation, autoclave)

                                      Fortunately, in states with inspection programs it's not very common.  Here in Ohio the report for 2012 showed only .28% of hives were found with foul brood (47 out of 16,646).

                                      So your odds of spreading it are low, and even when you do it may not show up immediately or even for months or years so tying it to the honey you fed earlier would be difficult. 

                                      Feeding honey purchased from others isn't common practice due mostly cost, but if it were those 47 colonies in Ohio could easily infect many many more just in the first year.


                                      On 5/1/2013 12:20 PM, husztek wrote:
                                      781007829.-1498502077360839616@..." type="cite">  
                                      Mike,

                                      Again I have to take exception with you.
                                      On the question of feeding back honey, I have often heard the "unknown disease" argument made to discourage its practice.
                                      But, I haven't to this date met anyone who could tell me that he/she had ever lost a hive from feeding back honey to the bees.
                                      I do know that really prosperous hives often go on raiding expeditions against less powerful hives, we call it robbing.
                                      In this case, the behavior over the honey can be fatal to the weaker hive which starves in the winter. As to the strong hive, I don't know of any who's failure can be credited to the stolen "unknown" honey.

                                      Thanks,

                                      Bill

                                      ---- On Wed, 01 May 2013 09:11:19 -0700 Mike S<mws1112004@...> wrote ----

                                       
                                      >>>   Additional information on this: (another internet link) suggesting feeding honey back to hives instead of HFCS or sugar syrup.  

                                      Feeding back honey to the hives is great except if you have disease in any of the sources of honey that you use for feed.  Unless you KNOW that your honey sources are not infected with disease, it is a very iffy tactic to feed back honey from other hives.   Feeding back honey to a hive from honey previously take from it would be best, probably.   Then, feeding sugar syrup that has been properly prepared would be second best because there would probably be no disease organisms to be found in the syrup before utilization by the bees.   (NOTE: Overheating sugar syrup can be very detrimental to bee health.)  HFCS would be a third choice because of the problems that can occur with it from preparation, storage, and/or handling.  Ya gotta know what yere doin' if you use HFCS.  There are too many ways you can harm your bees using that if you don't know all the possible problems, especially if you are overwintering with it.

                                      Mike in LA



                                      Bill Husztek
                                      Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
                                      7558 Marshall Drive
                                      Annandale, VA 22003
                                      703-573-8842




                                      Bill Husztek
                                      Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
                                      7558 Marshall Drive
                                      Annandale, VA 22003
                                      703-573-8842
                                    • husztek
                                      Tom, Just to toss in a cat here. A question of time? we certainly can t expect to see bees specialized to utilize these new crops directly any time soon. And
                                      Message 18 of 19 , May 1 5:53 PM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Tom,
                                        Just to toss in a cat here.

                                        A question of time?
                                        "we certainly can't expect to see bees specialized to utilize these new crops directly any time soon."

                                        And yet, we have "Africanized bees" in Texas.
                                        And we have Varroa mites which are resistant if not immune to the medications we thought were effective back in 1990.

                                        Thanks,

                                        Bill


                                        ---- On Wed, 01 May 2013 09:36:42 -0700 Tim Arheit<tarheit@...> wrote ----

                                         

                                        Honey really isn't produced as such (not like cane or beet sugar or corn syrup is in any case).   The primary process is collecting nectar and condensing it.   If beets or corn produced the raw sugary liquid, bees will happily gather it as well, just as they do with some tree sap and the sugary excretions of aphids.

                                        Corn Syrup, and sugar from beets or sugar cane are also very new on the evolutionary scale (perhaps 10,000 years for the first sugar cane,  200 for beet and 60 for corn syrup.   Given this and the relatively small geographic area these crops are found in and the dependance on humans  vs. the millions of years honey bees took to evolve, we certainly can't expect to see bees specialized to utilize these new crops directly any time soon.



                                        On 5/1/2013 12:13 PM, husztek wrote:
                                        810913948.-8744341712560105325@..." type="cite">  
                                        Actually, Mike you would be wrong.

                                        The Ipad was a relative late comer compared to CCD or its related ills.

                                        And, I have long wondered the following.
                                        If cane and beet sugar, and corn syrup are just as good for our bees, why don't we have naturally evolved bee varieties which produce them?

                                        So, we would have, sugar bees, syrup bees, and honey bees.

                                        Thanks,

                                        Bill

                                        ---- On Wed, 01 May 2013 09:01:48 -0700 Mike S<mws1112004@...> wrote ----

                                         
                                        >>>    Feeding of high fructose corn syrup has been linked to CCD.

                                        WHO is doing the reporting?  The media.  What is their main concern right now?  Survival.  Some of the printed media is collapsing due to lack of readership, or going through reduced publication volume.  As a result they are continually exploiting "alarmist" topics, blowing up the severity of some or a lot of events to increase an interest in their publications and to increase their readership.   And, because they deem it unimportant in increasing their volume of sales are failing to report some events of public concern.  This is also true of a lot of the airwave media, both conservative and liberal.   It seems to me that the "news" is now more about survival of the reporting sources than it is about the dispersal of correct and pertinent news.

                                        If you believe most of what you read and hear in the media I would suggest that you are naive.   Don't believe half of what you read and/or hear from the media unless it is corroborated by three or four different and divergent sources.  And even then be a little skeptical.   HFCS and sucrose (sugar) have about as much to do with CCD as the advent of the iPod into public use has an affect on CCD.  If I recall, seems as if the iPod boom occurred about the same time as CCD appeared.

                                        Mike in LA



                                        Bill Husztek
                                        Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
                                        7558 Marshall Drive
                                        Annandale, VA 22003
                                        703-573-8842




                                        Bill Husztek
                                        Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
                                        7558 Marshall Drive
                                        Annandale, VA 22003
                                        703-573-8842
                                      • husztek
                                        John, You won t find me on the other side of that media bias question. I just watched the turnout at the White House Reporters dinner. Mea culpa on the other.
                                        Message 19 of 19 , May 1 6:09 PM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          John,

                                          You won't find me on the other side of that media bias question. I just watched the turnout at the White House Reporters dinner.

                                          Mea culpa on the other. My old eyes mis-read o as an a, which I just bought one of last spring.
                                          I guess my real question is what is an Ipod.

                                          But for the bigger picture, I am somewhat convinced that much of our problem with whatever it is that is killing our bees relates back to (1) the I system of highways, in tandem with (2) the gypsy beekeeping school which every year concentrates over half the bees in captivity in California for almonds or Maine for blueberries.

                                          Those factors using (3) an antique beekeeping method which I recently noted was developed in 1850, the same year as the Compromise of 1850 has created a perfect circle of devastation of our bees. And (4) our attempts to dump pharmaceuticals and chemicals into the mixture seems to be amping up the result. Finally having the cumulative effects of neonics and anything else coming out of the backdoor of Dow, Monsanto, or Beyer, "Better living through Chemistry"  may be the various faces of the fourth horseman for the bees.

                                          Thanks,

                                          Bill

                                          ---- On Wed, 01 May 2013 09:23:09 -0700 John Myrah<johnmyrah@...> wrote ----

                                           

                                          Bill, Mike said IPod, not Ipad which is correct. With regard to the media Mike is spot on. We have an enormous problem with a very biased media more bent on their political and financial goals then reporting the facts in a fair and truthful manner.
                                           
                                          Take care, John
                                           

                                          To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
                                          CC: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
                                          From: husztek@...
                                          Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 09:13:06 -0700
                                          Subject: Re: [Beekeeping] CCD linked to fructose corn syrup and pesticides

                                           
                                          Actually, Mike you would be wrong.

                                          The Ipad was a relative late comer compared to CCD or its related ills.

                                          And, I have long wondered the following.
                                          If cane and beet sugar, and corn syrup are just as good for our bees, why don't we have naturally evolved bee varieties which produce them?

                                          So, we would have, sugar bees, syrup bees, and honey bees.

                                          Thanks,

                                          Bill

                                          ---- On Wed, 01 May 2013 09:01:48 -0700 Mike S<mws1112004@...> wrote ----

                                           


                                          >>>    Feeding of high fructose corn syrup has been linked to CCD.

                                          WHO is doing the reporting?  The media.  What is their main concern right now?  Survival.  Some of the printed media is collapsing due to lack of readership, or going through reduced publication volume.  As a result they are continually exploiting "alarmist" topics, blowing up the severity of some or a lot of events to increase an interest in their publications and to increase their readership.   And, because they deem it unimportant in increasing their volume of sales are failing to report some events of public concern.  This is also true of a lot of the airwave media, both conservative and liberal.   It seems to me that the "news" is now more about survival of the reporting sources than it is about the dispersal of correct and pertinent news.

                                          If you believe most of what you read and hear in the media I would suggest that you are naive.   Don't believe half of what you read and/or hear from the media unless it is corroborated by three or four different and divergent sources.  And even then be a little skeptical.   HFCS and sucrose (sugar) have about as much to do with CCD as the advent of the iPod into public use has an affect on CCD.  If I recall, seems as if the iPod boom occurred about the same time as CCD appeared.

                                          Mike in LA




                                          Bill Husztek
                                          Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
                                          7558 Marshall Drive
                                          Annandale, VA 22003
                                          703-573-8842




                                          Bill Husztek
                                          Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
                                          7558 Marshall Drive
                                          Annandale, VA 22003
                                          703-573-8842
                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.