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Re: [Beekeeping] Uncapping frames

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  • LINDA PICAZO
    heating the honey rids of its nutritional value Linda Picazo linda_diana1@yahoo.com   ... From: Mike S Subject: Re: [Beekeeping]
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 7, 2013
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      heating the honey rids of its nutritional value

      Linda Picazo
      linda_diana1@...
       


      --- On Sat, 4/6/13, Mike S <mws1112004@...> wrote:

      From: Mike S <mws1112004@...>
      Subject: Re: [Beekeeping] Uncapping frames
      To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Saturday, April 6, 2013, 8:55 PM

       
      >>>  ... pros and cons regarding uncapping frames using heat Blow dryer versus a knife?

      melting point range of 62 to 64 °C (144 to 147 °F).
      Commercial bottlers heat up to 150º for a very short period of time.  Remember, 144 to 147º just barely gets the wax melted.  Heating the honey right underneath the wax cappings is going to ruin the taste.  Had not heard of melting wax cappings to open the comb up for extraction.

      Mike in LA
    • Thomas Janstrom
      The method being discussed involves heating the capping wax to just on its melting point, the honey in the cell never goes above the 65-70C (148-158F), if it
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 7, 2013
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        The method being discussed involves heating the capping wax to just on its melting point, the honey in the cell never goes above the 65-70C (148-158F), if it even gets close is a bigger question. honey doesn't heat fast, it has a lot of thermal inertia/mass so would tend to stay close to the original temperature of the frame anyway. This is just like using a heated knife to uncap with.....

        Cheers, Thomas.

        On 8/04/2013 5:02 AM, LINDA PICAZO wrote:
         

        heating the honey rids of its nutritional value

        Linda Picazo
         


        --- On Sat, 4/6/13, Mike S <mws1112004@...> wrote:

        From: Mike S <mws1112004@...>
        Subject: Re: [Beekeeping] Uncapping frames
        To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, April 6, 2013, 8:55 PM

         
        >>>  ... pros and cons regarding uncapping frames using heat Blow dryer versus a knife?

        melting point range of 62 to 64 °C (144 to 147 °F).
        Commercial bottlers heat up to 150º for a very short period of time.  Remember, 144 to 147º just barely gets the wax melted.  Heating the honey right underneath the wax cappings is going to ruin the taste.  Had not heard of melting wax cappings to open the comb up for extraction.

        Mike in LA


      • husztek
        Not to bee too contentious on this point. Someone please, tell me how the cell wax and honey know not to get too hot? A capping knife goes through quickly,
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 7, 2013
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          Not to bee too contentious on this point.
          Someone please, tell me how the cell wax and honey know not to get too hot?

          A capping knife goes through quickly, cuts and it is gone.
          A hair dryer?
          Sounds intriguing, but I don't have one.
          I guess you need to try it out and tell the rest of us about it.
          After all, nothing ventured, . . .

          Thanks,

          Bill

          ---- On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 15:30:23 -0700 Thomas Janstrom<t_janstrom@...> wrote ----

           

          The method being discussed involves heating the capping wax to just on its melting point, the honey in the cell never goes above the 65-70C (148-158F), if it even gets close is a bigger question. honey doesn't heat fast, it has a lot of thermal inertia/mass so would tend to stay close to the original temperature of the frame anyway. This is just like using a heated knife to uncap with.....

          Cheers, Thomas.

          On 8/04/2013 5:02 AM, LINDA PICAZO wrote:
          5361328.91026.YahooMailClassic@..." type="cite">  

          heating the honey rids of its nutritional value

          Linda Picazo
           


          --- On Sat, 4/6/13, Mike S <mws1112004@...> wrote:

          From: Mike S <mws1112004@...>
          Subject: Re: [Beekeeping] Uncapping frames
          To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Saturday, April 6, 2013, 8:55 PM

           
          >>>  ... pros and cons regarding uncapping frames using heat Blow dryer versus a knife?

          melting point range of 62 to 64 °C (144 to 147 °F).
          Commercial bottlers heat up to 150º for a very short period of time.  Remember, 144 to 147º just barely gets the wax melted.  Heating the honey right underneath the wax cappings is going to ruin the taste.  Had not heard of melting wax cappings to open the comb up for extraction.

          Mike in LA





          Bill Husztek
          Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
          7558 Marshall Drive
          Annandale, VA 22003
          703-573-8842
        • Thomas Janstrom
          They don t, they both rely on the operator of the hairdrier to move the stream of hot air as soon as the capping wax melts. There are numerous videos on
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 8, 2013
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            They don't, they both rely on the operator of the hairdrier to move the stream of  hot air as soon as the capping wax melts. There are numerous videos on youtube that show this being done. I'd have to say it doesn't look to be the fastest way, but on the upside there are no cappings to process later, so maybe it works out?

            Just one example of the types of videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RCsBJ25ZXg

            Oh one thing, never done it this way myself (have a electric capping knife).....

            Cheers, Thomas.

            On 8/04/2013 9:18 AM, husztek wrote:
             
            Not to bee too contentious on this point.
            Someone please, tell me how the cell wax and honey know not to get too hot?

            A capping knife goes through quickly, cuts and it is gone.
            A hair dryer?
            Sounds intriguing, but I don't have one.
            I guess you need to try it out and tell the rest of us about it.
            After all, nothing ventured, . . .

            Thanks,

            Bill

            ---- On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 15:30:23 -0700 Thomas Janstrom<t_janstrom@...> wrote ----

             

            The method being discussed involves heating the capping wax to just on its melting point, the honey in the cell never goes above the 65-70C (148-158F), if it even gets close is a bigger question. honey doesn't heat fast, it has a lot of thermal inertia/mass so would tend to stay close to the original temperature of the frame anyway. This is just like using a heated knife to uncap with.....

            Cheers, Thomas.

            On 8/04/2013 5:02 AM, LINDA PICAZO wrote:
            5361328.91026.YahooMailClassic@..." type="cite">  

            heating the honey rids of its nutritional value

            Linda Picazo
             


            --- On Sat, 4/6/13, Mike S <mws1112004@...> wrote:

            From: Mike S <mws1112004@...>
            Subject: Re: [Beekeeping] Uncapping frames
            To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Saturday, April 6, 2013, 8:55 PM

             
            >>>  ... pros and cons regarding uncapping frames using heat Blow dryer versus a knife?

            melting point range of 62 to 64 °C (144 to 147 °F).
            Commercial bottlers heat up to 150º for a very short period of time.  Remember, 144 to 147º just barely gets the wax melted.  Heating the honey right underneath the wax cappings is going to ruin the taste.  Had not heard of melting wax cappings to open the comb up for extraction.

            Mike in LA




            Bill Husztek
            Black Squirrel Cottage Enterprises
            7558 Marshall Drive
            Annandale, VA 22003
            703-573-8842

          • Jorg Kewisch
            Beekeepers have experimented for a long time with this. A heated knife will use about 50 Watts of electricity, a blower uses 400 Watts (both estimates). An
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 8, 2013
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              Beekeepers have experimented for a long time with this. A heated knife
              will use about 50 Watts of electricity, a blower uses 400 Watts (both
              estimates). An electric (mechinical) knife will gunk up after a short
              time and has to be cleaned a lot.
              So the commercial beekeeper will stick to the heated knife. (does
              anybody know how hot the knife edge gets?). The hobbyist can still
              experiment.
              What about a computer controlled laser? Remember the Goldfinger movie?

              Jorg

              On 04/07/2013 06:30 PM, Thomas Janstrom wrote:
              > The method being discussed involves heating the capping wax to just on
              > its melting point, the honey in the cell never goes above the 65-70C
              > (148-158F), if it even gets close is a bigger question. honey doesn't
              > heat fast, it has a lot of thermal inertia/mass so would tend to stay
              > close to the original temperature of the frame anyway. This is just like
              > using a heated knife to uncap with.....
              >
              > Cheers, Thomas.
            • Mike S
              ... the fastest way, but on the upside there are no cappings to process later, .... So, what happens to the melted wax?  How much gets into the liquid honey?
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 8, 2013
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                >>>   ... it doesn't look to be
                the fastest way, but on the upside there are no cappings to process later, ....

                So, what happens to the melted wax?  How much gets into the liquid honey?

                Mike in LA
              • Thomas Janstrom
                When you melt a thin sheet of anything and you start in the middle (it would in any case in this case), surface tension will pull the newly liquid material
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 10, 2013
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                  When you melt a thin sheet of anything and you start in the middle (it would in any case in this case), surface tension will pull the newly liquid material away from the melt zone towards the cooler areas. So in this case it will wick towards the edges of the cell leaving the honey clean and uncapped.

                  I don't know how the bees deal with the rounded lip on the edge of the cell when the frame is reused though.

                  Thomas.

                  On 9/04/2013 11:14 AM, Mike S wrote:
                   

                  >>>   ... it doesn't look to be the fastest way, but on the upside there are no cappings to process later, ....

                  So, what happens to the melted wax?  How much gets into the liquid honey?

                  Mike in LA


                • Mike S
                  ... melt zone towards the cooler areas. So in this case it will wick towards the edges of the cell leaving the honey clean and uncapped. So you are saying that
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 10, 2013
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                    >>>  surface tension will pull the newly liquid material away from the
                    melt zone towards the cooler areas. So in this case it will wick towards the edges of the cell leaving the honey clean and uncapped.

                    So you are saying that the melted wax will resolidify on the top edges of the cell cup?  You have used this process to uncap honey for extraction?  If so, have you ever noticed a skim of wax on the top of the honey when it's stored?

                    Mike in LA
                  • Matt Tucker
                    I just don t like the idea of using heat of any kind if I can help it. Raw and natural is best. Matt Uncapping frames Sat Apr 6, 2013 6:21 pm (PDT) . Posted
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 18, 2013
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                      I just don't like the idea of using heat of any kind if I can help it. Raw and natural is best.
                       
                      Matt
                       
                       
                      Uncapping frames Sat Apr 6, 2013 6:21 pm (PDT) . Posted by: "Daryl" pastordarylmiller What are the pros and cons regarding uncapping frames using heat Blow dryer versus a knife? Can you use any blowdryer or do you need something that gets up to a certain temperature?
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