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Re: [beekeeping] Re: a question for the mod, and one for everyone else.

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  • Crenn
    Shanta I beg to differ. I find it much easier to download attachments and save them to my computer than to try to remember what page had what or waste space
    Message 1 of 22 , Sep 30, 2003
      Shanta I beg to differ.  I find it much easier to download attachments and save them to my computer than to try to remember what page had what or waste space in my email.
       
      Caitlin

      Shanta McBain <shanta@...> wrote:
      There should not be a list of the member open to the public only owner and
      moderators should have access to that information. HTML should never be
      allowed on a good list nor attachments.

      HTML is used by spamers to confirm address and by hackers to spread viruses.
      Though as a Linux user I don't have the virus problem that most do. Outlook
      users are exceptionally prone to both problems. But thems the untold problems
      of useing windoz. They have one addage 'Thy will get viruses'.

      As for who the owner or moderator you will only see that if they post a
      message and you look at it from the site.

      The list I host have a web interface but a vary strict maillist attached to it
      NO HTML, No attachment no posting from non members, Some are moderated. I
      hate spam so I am a stickler for security.


      --
      Thanks
      Shanta McBain
      Bee Breeder
      http://shanta.org/Apis
      Orders now being taken for Late August and September Queens and 2004
      Nukes.


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    • grizzly bearnolds
      ... We have gone over and over and over on this one, through the months. If there is a list owner, he/she is an absentee one. While some good topics come up
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 1, 2003
        >From: raincrone@...
        >Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003
        >Subject: [beekeeping] Re: a question for the mod, and one for everyone else.
        >
        >BTW, there's got to be a list owner here even if the list isn't moderated
        >in the approving-individual-posts sense. Anyone know who it is?

        We have gone over and over and over on this one, through the months. If
        there is a list owner, he/she is an absentee one. While some good topics
        come up from time to time, this is not the best of lists to get into any
        discussions (in my opinion), as this list is not moderated, not even the
        tiny bit that is needed to keep the spammers off.

        I prefer to participate in Organic and Norland, there is more care taken
        with those lists than this one here. Both lists are part of Yahoo. The list
        owners take care of their members and their lists. Discussions are many and
        varied, and there is mostly free speech, no censure, though each list was
        created for specific purposes. Some do not agree with those lists, but on
        the whole, those who join, stay on and hopefully like it there.


        Ma. ~ North Pacific, West Coast, British Columbia, CANADA
      • Shanta McBain
        ... If you put the link in the page one clicks it and your there to the actual record or to the application. http://shanta.org/cgi-bin/Apis/recipes.cgi This
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 1, 2003
          On September 30, 2003 22:25, Crenn wrote:
          > Shanta I beg to differ. I find it much easier to download attachments and
          > save them to my computer than to try to remember what page had what or
          > waste space in my email.
          >
          If you put the link in the page one clicks it and your there to the actual
          record or to the application. http://shanta.org/cgi-bin/Apis/recipes.cgi
          This keeps the detail out of the list saving data transmition of the content
          of the recipe to only those that chose to see it. Band with is a growing
          issue For me it is band with. For Windoz user it is viruses.

          Attachments are not cool to send to a list. They are generally viruses.
          Word docs for the most part in a format that is not readable by anyone except
          those with the save version of the word processor you created it with. Saving
          in rich text solves that but is bad list ethics to attach a file.

          The major advantage of using a database it that the recipe is online to be
          searched. An easy to use both for getting and entering the information. To
          enter just fill in the form. To find simply search for any word in the
          recipe. (the search box). The application has vary extensive search
          capability's. Just not available with mail list. A posted recipe is lost for
          all as soon as it is posted. Yes it is in the archives of the list but it is
          not easy to find. Nor is it shared by other list.

          Currently the modules of Apis are shared among other 'sites'. Content enhances
          all.

          Apis is designed to be able to host multiple sites on the same app/database.

          Apis the core app directed towards personal membership, for site hosting the
          application services clubs and companies. Base modules are shared by all.
          FAQ
          Forage Database
          Recipes
          Forums

          Specific modules
          Calendar
          News
          MemberDatabase (clubs)
          ToDo
          Logs
          Progets
          Queen and yard tracking systems.
          etc


          --
          Thanks
          Shanta McBain
          Bee Breeder
          http://shanta.org/Apis
          Orders now being taken for Late August and September Queens and 2004
          Nukes.
        • ROBERT J STOCKLEY
          Hey all... You tell em Ma. Each list has its own personality. Organic folks don t treat with anything...nothing... not FGMO...nothing. There are strong
          Message 4 of 22 , Oct 2, 2003
            Hey all...
            You tell em Ma. Each list has its own personality. Organic folks don't treat with anything...nothing... not FGMO...nothing. There are strong supporters of Small cell foundation and Housel positioning on both. Big chunk of Norland use chemicals but Norland is for extreme climate Beekeeping.
             
            This list is just fine the way it is...I think we did lose a lot of support when the porn pushers started targeting us (or was that another group).
             
            The problem with Moderating is...You need someone who is going to check a few times a day...every day...or nothing comes through...
             
            Bob Stockley
            Lagrangeville NY. 

            grizzly bearnolds <mkittner@...> wrote:

            >From: raincrone@...
            >Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003
            >Subject: [beekeeping] Re: a question for the mod, and one for everyone else.
            >
            >BTW, there's got to be a list owner here even if the list isn't moderated
            >in the approving-individual-posts sense. Anyone know who it is?

            We have gone over and over and over on this one, through the months. If
            there is a list owner, he/she is an absentee one. While some good topics
            come up from time to time, this is not the best of lists to get into any
            discussions (in my opinion), as this list is not moderated, not even the
            tiny bit that is needed to keep the spammers off.

            I prefer to participate in Organic and Norland, there is more care taken
            with those lists than this one here. Both lists are part of Yahoo. The list
            owners take care of their members and their lists. Discussions are many and
            varied, and there is mostly free speech, no censure, though each list was
            created for specific purposes. Some do not agree with those lists, but on
            the whole, those who join, stay on and hopefully like it there.


            Ma. ~ North Pacific, West Coast, British Columbia, CANADA



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          • Mike
            For a good, moderated, discussion list concerning bees and beekeeping go to the following web address. The discussion list is called BEE-L for bee log. It
            Message 5 of 22 , Oct 2, 2003
              For a good, moderated, discussion list concerning bees and beekeeping go to the following web address.  The discussion list is called BEE-L  for bee log.  It has participants from all over the world, and is intensely moderated by about four or five people so that submissions are being examined and submitted, or not, to the list several times a day.  All submissions are sent to all the moderators and if any one of them approves the submission, it makes it to the list.  I have found it to be quite educational.  Hope you all agree.
               
              Mike
               
            • mnist@spamcop.net
              I m a new member of BEE-L; they are excellent for information but a little high end for a newbie like me. Next year I ll be better at taking in everything they
              Message 6 of 22 , Oct 2, 2003
                I'm a new member of BEE-L; they are excellent for information but a little high
                end for a newbie like me. Next year I'll be better at taking in everything they
                discuss.

                I came real close to unsubscribing because of some of the contentiousness and
                bickering between members.

                --Madeleine
                Quoting Mike <mws@...>:

                > For a good, moderated, discussion list concerning bees and beekeeping go to
                > the following web address. The discussion list is called BEE-L for bee log.
                > It has participants from all over the world, and is intensely moderated by
                > about four or five people so that submissions are being examined and
                > submitted, or not, to the list several times a day. All submissions are sent
                > to all the moderators and if any one of them approves the submission, it
                > makes it to the list. I have found it to be quite educational. Hope you all
                > agree.
                >
                > Mike
                >
                > http://www.honeybeeworld.com/bee-l/default.htm
              • grizzly bearnolds
                ... I left BeeL a long time ago. They have a way of moderating that doesn t stick with me too well. ... Both of those lists that I had mentioned (Organic,
                Message 7 of 22 , Oct 2, 2003
                  >From: mnist@...
                  >Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003
                  >Subject: Re: [beekeeping] a question for the mod, and one for everyone else.
                  >
                  >I'm a new member of BEE-L; they are excellent for information but a little
                  >high end for a newbie like me. // I came real close to unsubscribing
                  >because of some of the contentiousness and bickering between members.

                  I left BeeL a long time ago. They have a way of moderating that doesn't
                  stick with me too well.


                  >From: ROBERT J STOCKLEY <bruzgul@...>
                  >Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003
                  >Subject: Re: [beekeeping] a question for the mod, and one for everyone else.

                  >Each list has its own personality.

                  Both of those lists that I had mentioned (Organic, Norland, and there are a
                  few others) have their own special flavour, their own personality. Which of
                  course reflects the membership. What I like most on those lists, is that
                  someone like me (who doesn't fit into BeeL at all, who was told more or
                  less to shut up and to listen to the wise and know it all few certain
                  ones), well someone like me can participate in those other lists. I can ask
                  questions, I get answers, and I can say what I think is necessary. The main
                  thing though, through the interaction with those beekeepers, my bees have
                  benefited. I have had a second very good year, the bees are healthy, they
                  are progressing, they are on their own way. Sure I like to get down to the
                  small cell size but have a long way to go yet before reaching that goal.
                  There is much to the small cell BEE KEEPING METHODS which I think are
                  helping. We have kept bees for ten plus years, have lost and lost them, had
                  honey only in the second year and then all this time, nothing, and lost the
                  bees regularly over winter. With the different methods, I got them through
                  last winter, and my hives have been doing very well the last two seasons,
                  accumulating in even getting honey for us this summer, for the second time
                  ever in our years with the bees. There is much farther to go on to, much
                  more to learn, and those people on Organic and Norland are coming through
                  for me.

                  This is not to say that this list here (beekeeping) is not a good one, I
                  have been a member here too for a long time, but ... there just isn't
                  enough coming out to help a person to learn and to improve. Also the
                  absentee moderator makes it difficult, in my opinion, to have a guidance to
                  this list. I do not like at all the moderation that is happening on BeeL,
                  yet the way the moderators on Organic and Norland are doing it, is much
                  more agreeable with someone like me.

                  > This list is just fine the way it is...I think we did lose a lot of
                  > support when the porn pushers started targeting us (or was that another group).

                  Right. It also hits other groups but there (I think) the moderators are a
                  bit more on their toes.

                  > The problem with Moderating is...You need someone who is going to check
                  > a few times a day...every day...or nothing comes through.

                  Not necessarily. There are different ways of moderating. I don't mean the
                  way that every message has to be read and approved before submitting. That
                  is going overboard too much.

                  The reason we are on all these lists, is to improve our beekeeping methods,
                  to inform ourselves. There are different ways of doing that, whatever
                  appeals to a person. All I can say, if you want to talk bees, learn about
                  them, figure new things out, have discussions with others, this is well
                  done on those two lists I mentioned. As always though, as in real life,
                  there are some who don't get along with others, that's unavoidable. And
                  there are some people that do not like the way Norland's or Organic's
                  moderators promote their way of keeping their bees, however, in the end,
                  they and we all, we want the best we can provide for our bees, and I rather
                  have someone who is convinced of what they are doing and who stick it out
                  through the problems, AND they also are there to help others, free of
                  charge, because they got help themselves before, and now they are helping
                  others. Examples. A guy in Alaska, where it was / still is the norm to kill
                  the bees (as far as I know), to let them die out regularly, because
                  wintering is a huge problem up north, but he is fighting it out and is
                  having bees now that are surviving. Me the very unimportant one, also up
                  north, where it is said that bees cannot survive on their own out here over
                  winter, well I am working on it and there is improvement. I am learning how
                  to keep bees healthy and keep them with methods that do not require
                  medications or treatments.

                  Again, it is not to say that a list like this one (beekeeping) is not a
                  good one, but it seems, there is a lot missing yet, which could make it a
                  far better one. And I am not trying to make a membership drive for other
                  lists, that is not the point.


                  Ma. ~ North Pacific, West Coast, British Columbia, CANADA
                • Shanta McBain
                  ... Unfortunately they are so restrictive in conversation that to talk about formic acid a natural treatment allowed by the organic certification programs is
                  Message 8 of 22 , Oct 2, 2003
                    On October 2, 2003 03:38, ROBERT J STOCKLEY wrote:
                    > Hey all...
                    > You tell em Ma. Each list has its own personality. Organic folks don't
                    > treat with anything...nothing... not FGMO...nothing. There are strong
                    > supporters of Small cell foundation and Housel positioning on both.

                    Unfortunately they are so restrictive in conversation that to talk about
                    formic acid a natural treatment allowed by the organic certification programs
                    is not allowed. The largest proponents of the to unsubstantiated systems 4.9
                    and Housel are not interested in gathering data to prove the process. In fact
                    most data point to allowing the bees to make their own comb. This is because
                    bees are of different sizes and vary from latitude to latitude.

                    Most of the stories told in this list point more to Genetics than Cell Size.
                    But that is blasphemy in this list. Because of the close minded nature of
                    this list I have drooped it.

                    >Big
                    > chunk of Norland use chemicals but Norland is for extreme climate
                    > Beekeeping.
                    >
                    This is a great list open minded and interested in sharing data and experience
                    on any topic including true organics. It is moderated and people are truly
                    interested in helping others become better beekeepers. I would not say most
                    of us use chems on this list. Those that do though are looking for ways to
                    get practices and genetics to the point that they are no longer needed. So
                    when one user warns of the risks of no treatment vs intelligent uses of what
                    is available they are not told not to discuse accepted practices in the
                    beekeeping world.

                    > This list is just fine the way it is...I think we did lose a lot of support
                    > when the porn pushers started targeting us (or was that another group).
                    >
                    Porn is only a small part of poor list etiquette though the possibly the most
                    objection. Others are not in any particular order. HTML in messages,
                    attachments, Not editing the subject line to reflect the change in the course
                    of the thread. Not clipping out the old partion of messages that are
                    irrelevant to the responses given. One only needs enough to get the drift of
                    what was said so that the answer makes sense.

                    > The problem with Moderating is...You need someone who is going to check a
                    > few times a day...every day...or nothing comes through...

                    On my server every time a message comes in the moderator(s) get the posted
                    message and the either approve or not approve by responding to the message by
                    clicking links in the message. The yahoo list I belieave have the option that
                    once a new member has posted a few legitimate messages the can be placed on a
                    unmoderated status.

                    --
                    Thanks
                    Shanta McBain
                    Bee Breeder
                    http://shanta.org/Apis
                    Orders now being taken for Late August and September Queens and 2004
                    Nukes.
                  • sjbasin
                    By far the best bee forum going is the Beesource.com board. Moderated by the likes of Dr. Pedro Rodriquez, Dee Lusby, and others who are recognized as the best
                    Message 9 of 22 , Oct 8, 2003
                      By far the best bee forum going is the Beesource.com board. Moderated
                      by the likes of Dr. Pedro Rodriquez, Dee Lusby, and others who are
                      recognized as the best in their diciplines. Well moderated, over 1000
                      members from all over, newbies to those with 30 years of commercial
                      experience. Bee-L is good but a bit stiff for most hobby or sideline
                      beekeepers. Beesource also has an active chatroom that provokes good
                      exchange a couple times a week.
                      http:www.beesource.com/
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