Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [Beekeeping] Post mortem

Expand Messages
  • peter haywood
    Easy enough to check with a microscope if you make up a slide with bee poo and water and look at  x400.  Nosema looks exactly like grains of rice.  I get
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 8, 2011
      Easy enough to check with a microscope if you make up a slide with bee poo and water and look at  x400.  Nosema looks exactly like grains of rice.  I get bee poo on my five fronts but no Nosema.  Also grind up 20 dead bees in a drop of water and have a look at that.  You need to check for AFB too,  it`ll look like a little drop of tar in the base of some of the cells.  If you see that best to burn frames and scorch the boxes.
      Pete H


      From: stoneridgesheepfarm <StoneRidgeFarm@...>
      To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, 8 March, 2011 0:42:55
      Subject: [Beekeeping] Post mortem

       

      I spoke to the guy I'm buying my next package from about re-using the frames with already drawn out comb. He suggested that I examine the brood boxes for evidence of nosema before I install new bees.

      Based on that suggestion, I disassembled my two hives and examined them. Each had two deep boxes, a screened bottom and a shim with upper opening between the inner and outer covers. Almost every frame had drawn out comb but there was no honey at all. In some frames, the dead bees were deep in the cells as if they died trying to lap up the last of the honey at the bottom of each cell. I could see no evidence of hive beatles (I assumed there would be some dead ones at the bottom; no evidence of mites; I had entrance reducers installed so there was no evidence of mice (except mouse droppings between the solid bottom board and the screened bottom board.) No combs showed any evidence of a mouse gnawing on them.

      I was told to check for fecal stains inside the boxes. I expected to see it everywhere if the was an infestation. I only saw what looked to me like an occasional dripping from the pollen patties. But on the outside, there were droppings around the upper entrance. From what I've read, I thought every hive would have some spotting in late winter. I looked for photos on the internet, and found a youtube video with someone from the Univ. of FLA making it sound like ANY droppings outside the hive was a bad sign.

      I'd like to select the frames in the best condition and reuse them with my new package in April. I was told this was okay as long as I rinsed them in a 10% bleach solution.

      Anyone have nosema in the past? How did you handle it and your equipment?

      Thanks everyone.

      Wm.
      www.stoneridgefarm.com


    • roger g
      My bee inspecter came to a couple hive of mine that collapsed last fall and told me to put frames out in sunlight for a day to kill nosema. the ultra violet
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 8, 2011
        My bee inspecter came to a couple hive of mine that collapsed last fall and told me to put frames out in sunlight for a day to kill nosema. the ultra violet light of the sun will clean them. so i spread them out and turned them over mid day and put back in hive.
        I had one that died over the winter and looked like they starved not breaking cluster- plenty of honey in top, cluster in bottom. We had a really long cold spell here in NE. I put these out in sun and gave to a weak hive to help them thru. I'll check later today and see how their doing.roger NJ
        --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, "stoneridgesheepfarm" <StoneRidgeFarm@...> wrote:
        >
        > I spoke to the guy I'm buying my next package from about re-using the frames with already drawn out comb. He suggested that I examine the brood boxes for evidence of nosema before I install new bees.
        >
        > Based on that suggestion, I disassembled my two hives and examined them. Each had two deep boxes, a screened bottom and a shim with upper opening between the inner and outer covers. Almost every frame had drawn out comb but there was no honey at all. In some frames, the dead bees were deep in the cells as if they died trying to lap up
      • stoneridgesheepfarm
        ... I was hoping someone would suggest this. Its in line with other practices here on the farm; I just didn t know how tenacious nosema is. This is how I ll
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 8, 2011
          > My bee inspecter came to a couple hive of mine that collapsed last
          > fall and told me to put frames out in sunlight for a day to kill
          > nosema. the ultra violet light of the sun will clean them. so i
          > spread them out and turned them over mid day and put back in hive.

          I was hoping someone would suggest this. Its in line with other practices here on the farm; I just didn't know how tenacious nosema is.

          This is how I'll handle it.

          Wm.
          www.stoneridgefarm.com
        • Mike S
          ... ...... Almost every frame had drawn out comb but there was no honey at all. In some frames, the dead bees were deep in the cells as if they died trying to
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 8, 2011
            --- On Mon, 3/7/11, stoneridgesheepfarm <StoneRidgeFarm@...> wrote:
            ...... Almost every frame had drawn out comb but there was no honey at all. In some frames, the dead bees were deep in the cells as if they died trying to lap up the last of the honey at the bottom of each cell.

            What you are describing is almost a classic case of starvation.   I wouldn't worry too much about disease from your description of hive conditions.   And, I would not start over with less than two hives.  You can compare the two to see any abnormalities and you can use the resources of one to help the other if the necessity arises

            Mike in LA.

          • peter haywood
            The spores don`t last long on a microscope slide.  I`m sure it`s a lot less tenacious than many would have us believe.  Pete H
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 9, 2011
              The spores don`t last long on a microscope slide.  I`m sure it`s a lot less tenacious than many would have us believe. 
              Pete H


              From: stoneridgesheepfarm <StoneRidgeFarm@...>
              To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tue, 8 March, 2011 16:21:40
              Subject: [Beekeeping] Re: Post mortem- re-using frames

               

              > My bee inspecter came to a couple hive of mine that collapsed last
              > fall and told me to put frames out in sunlight for a day to kill
              > nosema. the ultra violet light of the sun will clean them. so i
              > spread them out and turned them over mid day and put back in hive.

              I was hoping someone would suggest this. Its in line with other practices here on the farm; I just didn't know how tenacious nosema is.

              This is how I'll handle it.

              Wm.
              www.stoneridgefarm.com


            • Ruary Rudd
              Well I don t know about that, I have exmined bees that were over 7 years old and the spores were visible and tested as Nosema apis with pcr. On slides ditto I
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 9, 2011
                
                Well I don't know about that, I have exmined bees that were over 7 years old and the spores were visible and tested as Nosema apis with pcr.
                 
                On slides ditto I have kept them for some years.
                 
                I would recommend fumigating the brood frames and boxes with 80% acetic acid this will kill spores of nosema, deal with waxmoth, and is supposed to deal with EFB.
                 
                Ruary
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of peter haywood
                Sent: 09 March 2011 14:32
                To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Beekeeping] Re: Post mortem- re-using frames

                 

                The spores don`t last long on a microscope slide.  I`m sure it`s a lot less tenacious than many would have us believe. 
                Pete H


                .

              • Mike S
                ... From another discussion list I ve learned that a spray of bleach mixture will also sterilize nosema spores that are exposed to the surface of comb.  I m
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 9, 2011
                  >>From: stoneridgesheepfarm <StoneRidgeFarm@...>: My bee inspecter came to
                  >>a couple hive of mine that collapsed last fall and told me to put frames out in sunlight
                  >>for a day to kill nosema. the ultra violet light of the sun will clean them.

                  >From:
                  stoneridgesheepfarm <StoneRidgeFarm@...>
                  : My bee inspecter came to a
                  >couple hive of mine that collapsed last fall and told me to put frames out in sunlight for a
                  >day to kill nosema. the ultra violet light of the sun will clean them.

                  From another discussion list I've learned that a spray of bleach mixture will also sterilize nosema spores that are exposed to the surface of comb.  I'm thinking, that to reach into the cells that have pollen stored in them, you might need to soak in a solution of bleach to which liquid soap has been added so that the solution will penetrate the depth of the cells of pollen. (Just a thought).

                  Mike in LA

                • Ruary Rudd
                  I would be worried that the chlorine in the bleach would poison the pollen and Honey. This is mentioned by Bailey and Ball in their book Honey Bee Patrhology
                  Message 8 of 12 , Mar 9, 2011
                    I would be worried that the chlorine in the bleach would poison the pollen and Honey. This is mentioned by Bailey and Ball in their book 'Honey Bee Patrhology'
                     
                    Ruary
                    -----Original Message-----
                     


                    From another discussion list I've learned that a spray of bleach mixture will also sterilize nosema spores that are exposed to the surface of comb.  I'm thinking, that to reach into the cells that have pollen stored in them, you might need to soak in a solution of bleach to which liquid soap has been added so that the solution will penetrate the depth of the cells of pollen. (Just a thought).

                    Mike in LA

                  • peter haywood
                    Ah, perhaps depends how fresh they were when the slide was made, or how the bees had been stored.  Don`t see a lot of it here anyway.  The slide I was
                    Message 9 of 12 , Mar 9, 2011
                      Ah, perhaps depends how fresh they were when the slide was made, or how the bees had been stored.  Don`t see a lot of it here anyway.  The slide I was thinking of was from a dead out that had been out in the rain after losing its roof for some time as I was unable to get to the apiary. 
                      Pete H


                      From: Ruary Rudd <ruaryrudd@...>
                      To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wed, 9 March, 2011 17:10:17
                      Subject: RE: [Beekeeping] Re: Post mortem- re-using frames

                       

                      

                      Well I don't know about that, I have exmined bees that were over 7 years old and the spores were visible and tested as Nosema apis with pcr.
                       
                      On slides ditto I have kept them for some years.
                       
                      I would recommend fumigating the brood frames and boxes with 80% acetic acid this will kill spores of nosema, deal with waxmoth, and is supposed to deal with EFB.
                       
                      Ruary
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of peter haywood
                      Sent: 09 March 2011 14:32
                      To: Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Beekeeping] Re: Post mortem- re-using frames

                       

                      The spores don`t last long on a microscope slide.  I`m sure it`s a lot less tenacious than many would have us believe. 
                      Pete H


                      .


                    • Kamil
                      Were the dead bees inside the comb upside down? This is the sign for starvation. If they died of starvation, they did not necessarily have a diseasse. Kamil
                      Message 10 of 12 , Mar 12, 2011
                        Were the dead bees inside the comb upside down? This is the sign for starvation. If they died of starvation, they did not necessarily have a diseasse.
                        Kamil

                        --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, "stoneridgesheepfarm" <StoneRidgeFarm@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I spoke to the guy I'm buying my next package from about re-using the frames with already drawn out comb. He suggested that I examine the brood boxes for evidence of nosema before I install new bees.
                        >
                        > Based on that suggestion, I disassembled my two hives and examined them. Each had two deep boxes, a screened bottom and a shim with upper opening between the inner and outer covers. Almost every frame had drawn out comb but there was no honey at all. In some frames, the dead bees were deep in the cells as if they died trying to lap up the last of the honey at the bottom of each cell. I could see no evidence of hive beatles (I assumed there would be some dead ones at the bottom; no evidence of mites; I had entrance reducers installed so there was no evidence of mice (except mouse droppings between the solid bottom board and the screened bottom board.) No combs showed any evidence of a mouse gnawing on them.
                        >
                        > I was told to check for fecal stains inside the boxes. I expected to see it everywhere if the was an infestation. I only saw what looked to me like an occasional dripping from the pollen patties. But on the outside, there were droppings around the upper entrance. From what I've read, I thought every hive would have some spotting in late winter. I looked for photos on the internet, and found a youtube video with someone from the Univ. of FLA making it sound like ANY droppings outside the hive was a bad sign.
                        >
                        > I'd like to select the frames in the best condition and reuse them with my new package in April. I was told this was okay as long as I rinsed them in a 10% bleach solution.
                        >
                        > Anyone have nosema in the past? How did you handle it and your equipment?
                        >
                        > Thanks everyone.
                        >
                        > Wm.
                        > www.stoneridgefarm.com
                        >
                      • stoneridgesheepfarm
                        ... Yes, I ve gotten other input that suggests that too. I am no longer worried and will proceed as if everything is okay (but I will leave the frames out in
                        Message 11 of 12 , Mar 16, 2011
                          > Were the dead bees inside the comb upside down? This is the sign
                          > for starvation. If they died of starvation, they did not
                          > necessarily have a diseasse.
                          > Kamil

                          Yes, I've gotten other input that suggests that too. I am no longer worried and will proceed as if everything is okay (but I will leave the frames out in the sun for a day.)

                          Thanks.
                          Wm.
                          www.stoneridgefarm.com


                          >
                          > --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, "stoneridgesheepfarm" <StoneRidgeFarm@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I spoke to the guy I'm buying my next package from about re-using the frames with already drawn out comb. He suggested that I examine the brood boxes for evidence of nosema before I install new bees.
                          > >
                          > > Based on that suggestion, I disassembled my two hives and examined them. Each had two deep boxes, a screened bottom and a shim with upper opening between the inner and outer covers. Almost every frame had drawn out comb but there was no honey at all. In some frames, the dead bees were deep in the cells as if they died trying to lap up the last of the honey at the bottom of each cell. I could see no evidence of hive beatles (I assumed there would be some dead ones at the bottom; no evidence of mites; I had entrance reducers installed so there was no evidence of mice (except mouse droppings between the solid bottom board and the screened bottom board.) No combs showed any evidence of a mouse gnawing on them.
                          > >
                          > > I was told to check for fecal stains inside the boxes. I expected to see it everywhere if the was an infestation. I only saw what looked to me like an occasional dripping from the pollen patties. But on the outside, there were droppings around the upper entrance. From what I've read, I thought every hive would have some spotting in late winter. I looked for photos on the internet, and found a youtube video with someone from the Univ. of FLA making it sound like ANY droppings outside the hive was a bad sign.
                          > >
                          > > I'd like to select the frames in the best condition and reuse them with my new package in April. I was told this was okay as long as I rinsed them in a 10% bleach solution.
                          > >
                          > > Anyone have nosema in the past? How did you handle it and your equipment?
                          > >
                          > > Thanks everyone.
                          > >
                          > > Wm.
                          > > www.stoneridgefarm.com
                          > >
                          >
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.