Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Digest Number 1892 Small cell

Expand Messages
  • sgtwal@aol.com
    Right now the strongest selling point for me on small cell is that it s what the bees are building. I have two survivor hives from feral stock. Both were
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 1 8:01 AM
       Right now the strongest selling point for me on small cell is that it's what the bees are building.
       I have two survivor hives from feral stock. Both were hived on starter strips and comb from the cut outs they came from.
       Both are building the smaller, 4.8mm, cell comb which matches the comb from the old nest.
       Sticky board mite counts on both hives are at ZERO.
       If this is because of the smaller cells or some other trait I cannot say, but as the man said "If it ain't broke, it don't need fixed." 
        Just what ARE the advantages of large cell? Besides being the "Standard" of the supply companies.




      See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.
    • Lew Best
      See my other post concerning the reasons for large cell. The “currently most accepted reason” that sc prevents mites is that the smaller bees emerge
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 1 9:25 AM

        See my other post concerning the reasons for large cell.  The “currently most accepted reason” that sc prevents mites is that the smaller bees emerge slightly earlier than the big bees do & this interrupts the mite’s breeding cycle.  BTW I’ve used only sc since I got back into bees 3 summers ago.  No mite problems so far.

         

        Lew near Waco, TX

         

        -----Original Message-----
         

         Right now the strongest selling point for me on small cell is that it's what the bees are building.

         I have two survivor hives from feral stock. Both were hived on starter strips and comb from the cut outs they came from.

         Both are building the smaller, 4.8mm, cell comb which matches the comb from the old nest.

         Sticky board mite counts on both hives are at ZERO.

         If this is because of the smaller cells or some other trait I cannot say, but as the man said "If it ain't broke, it don't need fixed." 

          Just what ARE the advantages of large cell? Besides being the "Standard" of the supply companies.



         


        No virus found in this incoming message.
        Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date: 11/1/2007 6:01 AM


        No virus found in this outgoing message.
        Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date: 11/1/2007 6:01 AM

      • odessa_kai
        I am happy to hear this. I am planning on giving my bees empty frames and let them build their own brood comb.I just need to figure out IF, how or what to put
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 1 3:48 PM
          I am happy to hear this.
          I am planning on giving my bees empty frames and let them build their
          own brood comb.I just need to figure out IF, how or what to put along
          the top as a guide. I saw a an example, seemed to be just a strip of
          narrow wood along the top of the inside of the frame.
          Also the open bred bees I am looking at are from a 'South West
          Survivor' program, have you or anyone heard of this? I think it may be
          through the agriculture program here in New Mexico. Just wonder if
          anyone has heard of it.
          I did read of someone debunking the small cell idea because one of the
          people using the small cell lives in Arizona and must just be useng
          smaller african bees. It seemed a silly statement to me.
          I appologise for being a bit sarcastic along that other post.
          carol ann

          it's what
          > the bees are building.
          > I have two survivor hives from feral stock. Both were hived on
          starter
          > strips and comb from the cut outs they came from.
          > Both are building the smaller, 4.8mm, cell comb which matches the
          comb from
          > the old nest.
          > Sticky board mite counts on both hives are at ZERO.
          > If this is because of the smaller cells or some other trait I
          cannot say,
          > but as the man said "If it ain't broke, it don't need fixed."
          > Just what ARE the advantages of large cell? Besides being the
          "Standard"
          > of the supply companies.
          >
          >
          >
          > ************************************** See what's new at
          http://www.aol.com
          >
        • pgmrdan
          Carol Ann, The Africanized Honey Bee is the reason I ve also read for the small cell bees in the southwest being resistant to Varroa Destructor. According to
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 1 4:53 PM
            Carol Ann,

            The Africanized Honey Bee is the reason I've also read for the small
            cell bees in the southwest being resistant to Varroa Destructor.
            According to some the feral bees in the southwest have a great deal
            of AHB in them.

            I read it in Ross Conrad's book Natural Beekeeping. He didn't say it
            was true or false but said that's the criticism people have for small
            cell not really being the silver bullet preventative for mites and
            other problems.

            Thanks,
            Dan


            --- In Beekeeping@yahoogroups.com, "odessa_kai" <odessa_kai@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I am happy to hear this.
            > I am planning on giving my bees empty frames and let them build
            their
            > own brood comb.I just need to figure out IF, how or what to put
            along
            > the top as a guide. I saw a an example, seemed to be just a strip of
            > narrow wood along the top of the inside of the frame.
            > Also the open bred bees I am looking at are from a 'South West
            > Survivor' program, have you or anyone heard of this? I think it may
            be
            > through the agriculture program here in New Mexico. Just wonder if
            > anyone has heard of it.
            > I did read of someone debunking the small cell idea because one of
            the
            > people using the small cell lives in Arizona and must just be useng
            > smaller african bees. It seemed a silly statement to me.
            > I appologise for being a bit sarcastic along that other post.
            > carol ann
            >
            > it's what
            > > the bees are building.
            > > I have two survivor hives from feral stock. Both were hived on
            > starter
            > > strips and comb from the cut outs they came from.
            > > Both are building the smaller, 4.8mm, cell comb which matches
            the
            > comb from
            > > the old nest.
            > > Sticky board mite counts on both hives are at ZERO.
            > > If this is because of the smaller cells or some other trait I
            > cannot say,
            > > but as the man said "If it ain't broke, it don't need fixed."
            > > Just what ARE the advantages of large cell? Besides being the
            > "Standard"
            > > of the supply companies.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ************************************** See what's new at
            > http://www.aol.com
            > >
            >
          • Lew Best
            Using small strips of wood (as in popsicle sticks) is one popular method. Another is using small starter strips of foundation (I make mine bout 3/4 wide)
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 1 5:24 PM
              Using small strips of wood (as in popsicle sticks) is one popular
              method. Another is using small "starter strips" of foundation (I make
              mine bout 3/4" wide) which leaves bout 1/2" or so exposed (rest is
              covered by the wedge). It's best to insert these between combs of drawn
              comb so the bees actually have "3 guides."

              As to the Africanized bees being used in Arizona; Dee Lusby & her late
              husband Ed were basically the pioneers of the small cell thing; Dee has
              done very exhaustive research on bees & the history of beekeeping for
              the last 150 years or so. Her writings on beesource.com (see "pov" or
              "points of view" link; forget how it's listed) give a lot of good info
              on regressing bees back to natural sizes.

              I've removed quite a few old colonies (been in walls for years according
              to the building owners) & most of the comb will be in the 5mm or less
              range (= smaller bees) & these bees have been untreated for years but NO
              MITE PROBLEMS! We have a few Africanized bees here but very seldom you
              run into a "hot colony."

              Lew Best near Waco, TX


              -----Original Message-----
              I am happy to hear this.
              I am planning on giving my bees empty frames and let them build their
              own brood comb.I just need to figure out IF, how or what to put along
              the top as a guide. I saw a an example, seemed to be just a strip of
              narrow wood along the top of the inside of the frame.
              Also the open bred bees I am looking at are from a 'South West
              Survivor' program, have you or anyone heard of this? I think it may be
              through the agriculture program here in New Mexico. Just wonder if
              anyone has heard of it.
              I did read of someone debunking the small cell idea because one of the
              people using the small cell lives in Arizona and must just be useng
              smaller african bees. It seemed a silly statement to me.
              I appologise for being a bit sarcastic along that other post.
              carol ann

              it's what
              > the bees are building.
              > I have two survivor hives from feral stock. Both were hived on
              starter
              > strips and comb from the cut outs they came from.
              > Both are building the smaller, 4.8mm, cell comb which matches the
              comb from
              > the old nest.
              > Sticky board mite counts on both hives are at ZERO.
              > If this is because of the smaller cells or some other trait I
              cannot say,
              > but as the man said "If it ain't broke, it don't need fixed."
              > Just what ARE the advantages of large cell? Besides being the
              "Standard"
              > of the supply companies.
              >
              >
              >
              > ************************************** See what's new at
              http://www.aol.com
              >





              Yahoo! Groups Links




              No virus found in this incoming message.
              Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date:
              11/1/2007 6:01 AM


              No virus found in this outgoing message.
              Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date:
              11/1/2007 6:01 AM
            • axeman axeman
              I just cut down a hive built on the underside of a tree. No internal shelter. There were a good 6 drawn comb and after I hived them and had a chance to check
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 1 8:43 PM
                I just cut down a hive built on the underside of a
                tree. No internal shelter. There were a good 6 drawn
                comb and after I hived them and had a chance to check
                em out I saw they had mites. Now, they may have fewer
                or maybe they're just more susceptable but I'm not so
                sure myself on the whole 'smaller is better'
                phillosophy.

                Alan, Lakeview, NY.
                --- Lew Best <bee_keeper@...> wrote:

                > See my other post concerning the reasons for large
                > cell. The “currently
                > most accepted reason” that sc prevents mites is that
                > the smaller bees
                > emerge slightly earlier than the big bees do & this
                > interrupts the
                > mite’s breeding cycle. BTW I’ve used only sc since
                > I got back into bees
                > 3 summers ago. No mite problems so far.
                >
                > Lew near Waco, TX
                >


                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail.yahoo.com
              • Lew Best
                Any idea how long they d been there? Being exposed I d guess they were a spring swarm that just stayed outside to build their hive? Can t imagine they d
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 1 9:00 PM
                  Any idea how long they'd been there? Being exposed I'd guess they were
                  a spring swarm that just "stayed outside" to build their hive? Can't
                  imagine they'd survived your winter (tho I have seen some survive our
                  milder winters here outside) so they may be larger bees that either had
                  mites when they swarmed or being large built the larger comb which
                  allowed them to become infested?

                  Lotsa unanswered questions here in my mind; can you measure some comb?
                  The way the folks on the organic list measure is to measure across the
                  flats of 10 cells in a row (for accuracy) with a metric ruler then
                  divide by 10. That would tell you for sure if they were typical large
                  bees or "naturally regressed" (maybe just partially so as it takes a few
                  generations to regress back to natural size); would be interesting to
                  know for sure!

                  Lew near Waco, TX


                  -----Original Message-----

                  I just cut down a hive built on the underside of a
                  tree. No internal shelter. There were a good 6 drawn
                  comb and after I hived them and had a chance to check
                  em out I saw they had mites. Now, they may have fewer
                  or maybe they're just more susceptable but I'm not so
                  sure myself on the whole 'smaller is better'
                  phillosophy.

                  Alan, Lakeview, NY.


                  No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date:
                  11/1/2007 6:01 AM
                • axeman axeman
                  Excellent questions. I will try and get some measurments. I have been removing and crushing the comb as they deplete the stores, forcing them to move onto the
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 2 4:30 PM
                    Excellent questions. I will try and get some
                    measurments. I have been removing and crushing the
                    comb as they deplete the stores, forcing them to move
                    onto the drawn frames I had just recently stored away
                    from another hive (2 deeps). I have been feeding them
                    heavily from a jar of near straight honey water. I cut
                    these bees down from a tree in the city. I can't see
                    anyone in the area I took this from keeping bees as a
                    hobby. The houses are just too close together but I
                    guess stranger things are known to exist.
                    One thing I did notice...the queen is light, like my
                    Itailians, but the workers are are much darker, unlike
                    my Itailans. Wonder if that is not so unusual?
                    In any event, I am going to try my hardest to get
                    these bees to survive over the winter, even going as
                    far as storing them in my garage.

                    Alan, Lakeview, NY
                    --- Lew Best <bee_keeper@...> wrote:

                    > Any idea how long they'd been there? Being exposed
                    > I'd guess they were
                    > a spring swarm that just "stayed outside" to build
                    > their hive? Can't
                    > imagine they'd survived your winter (tho I have seen
                    > some survive our
                    > milder winters here outside) so they may be larger
                    > bees that either had
                    > mites when they swarmed or being large built the
                    > larger comb which
                    > allowed them to become infested?
                    >
                    > Lotsa unanswered questions here in my mind; can you
                    > measure some comb?
                    > The way the folks on the organic list measure is to
                    > measure across the
                    > flats of 10 cells in a row (for accuracy) with a
                    > metric ruler then
                    > divide by 10. That would tell you for sure if they
                    > were typical large
                    > bees or "naturally regressed" (maybe just partially
                    > so as it takes a few
                    > generations to regress back to natural size); would
                    > be interesting to
                    > know for sure!
                    >
                    > Lew near Waco, TX
                    >
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    >
                    > I just cut down a hive built on the underside of a
                    > tree. No internal shelter. There were a good 6 drawn
                    > comb and after I hived them and had a chance to
                    > check
                    > em out I saw they had mites. Now, they may have
                    > fewer
                    > or maybe they're just more susceptable but I'm not
                    > so
                    > sure myself on the whole 'smaller is better'
                    > phillosophy.
                    >
                    > Alan, Lakeview, NY.
                    >
                    >
                    > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                    > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                    > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 -
                    > Release Date:
                    > 11/1/2007 6:01 AM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    __________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    http://mail.yahoo.com
                  • axeman axeman
                    ...just built on the underside of this damaged limb...our infamous October storm of last year... Alan, Lakeview, NY ...
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 2 4:48 PM
                      ...just built on the underside of this damaged
                      limb...our infamous October storm of last year...

                      Alan, Lakeview, NY

                      --- Lew Best <bee_keeper@...> wrote:

                      > Any idea how long they'd been there? Being exposed
                      > I'd guess they were
                      > a spring swarm that just "stayed outside" to build
                      > their hive? Can't
                      > imagine they'd survived your winter (tho I have seen
                      > some survive our
                      > milder winters here outside) so they may be larger
                      > bees that either had
                      > mites when they swarmed or being large built the
                      > larger comb which
                      > allowed them to become infested?
                      >
                      > Lotsa unanswered questions here in my mind; can you
                      > measure some comb?
                      > The way the folks on the organic list measure is to
                      > measure across the
                      > flats of 10 cells in a row (for accuracy) with a
                      > metric ruler then
                      > divide by 10. That would tell you for sure if they
                      > were typical large
                      > bees or "naturally regressed" (maybe just partially
                      > so as it takes a few
                      > generations to regress back to natural size); would
                      > be interesting to
                      > know for sure!
                      >
                      > Lew near Waco, TX
                      >
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      >
                      > I just cut down a hive built on the underside of a
                      > tree. No internal shelter. There were a good 6 drawn
                      > comb and after I hived them and had a chance to
                      > check
                      > em out I saw they had mites. Now, they may have
                      > fewer
                      > or maybe they're just more susceptable but I'm not
                      > so
                      > sure myself on the whole 'smaller is better'
                      > phillosophy.
                      >
                      > Alan, Lakeview, NY.
                      >
                      >
                      > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                      > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                      > Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 -
                      > Release Date:
                      > 11/1/2007 6:01 AM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      http://mail.yahoo.com
                    • Lew Best
                      Lotsa hidden hives in back yards, etc. also, a swarm may travel a coupla miles looking for a home. Measuring comb (several places; probably not uniform
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 2 4:51 PM
                        Lotsa "hidden hives" in back yards, etc. also, a swarm may travel a
                        coupla miles "looking for a home." Measuring comb (several places;
                        probably not uniform throughout) will be a big indicator if they're
                        regressed at all. Ideal place of course will be in the brood nest; many
                        bees build larger comb to store honey in.

                        Probably do best outside with protection from wind (& snow if possible)
                        as on warmer days (above bout 50 deg F IIRC) they'll take short
                        "cleansing flights" & need the sun for navigation (plus the sun will
                        help warm the hive & encourage the flights).

                        Lew

                        -----Original Message-----
                        Excellent questions. I will try and get some
                        measurments. I have been removing and crushing the
                        comb as they deplete the stores, forcing them to move
                        onto the drawn frames I had just recently stored away
                        from another hive (2 deeps). I have been feeding them
                        heavily from a jar of near straight honey water. I cut
                        these bees down from a tree in the city. I can't see
                        anyone in the area I took this from keeping bees as a
                        hobby. The houses are just too close together but I
                        guess stranger things are known to exist.
                        One thing I did notice...the queen is light, like my
                        Itailians, but the workers are are much darker, unlike
                        my Itailans. Wonder if that is not so unusual?
                        In any event, I am going to try my hardest to get
                        these bees to survive over the winter, even going as
                        far as storing them in my garage.

                        Alan, Lakeview, NY


                        No virus found in this outgoing message.
                        Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                        Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.19/1105 - Release Date:
                        11/2/2007 11:04 AM
                      • Lew Best
                        Interesting! Lew ... ...just built on the underside of this damaged limb...our infamous October storm of last year... Alan, Lakeview, NY No virus found in this
                        Message 11 of 11 , Nov 2 5:04 PM
                          Interesting!

                          Lew


                          -----Original Message-----

                          ...just built on the underside of this damaged
                          limb...our infamous October storm of last year...

                          Alan, Lakeview, NY



                          No virus found in this outgoing message.
                          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                          Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.19/1105 - Release Date:
                          11/2/2007 11:04 AM
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.