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Re: Ages of Z255 and L159.2

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  • kirstensaxe
    Paul B, I don t know of any recent TMRCA work for families within R-Z255. It would be nice to be able to do some TMRCA work including intraclade and interclade
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 5, 2013
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      Paul B,

      I don't know of any recent TMRCA work for families within R-Z255.

      It would be nice to be able to do some TMRCA work including intraclade and interclade comparisons for some of the clusters and clades that we have recognized which include more than one family. I am thinking about R-L159.2 and the various mystery clusters, and also about clusters within R-L159.2. One of the more interesting groups is the Mystery Group 2. Few have tested to confirm that they are L159.2-, Z255+, and to find out if they are ccgg, so we really haven't explored the bounds of this cluster, which might be fairly large. There is potential to do those sorts of estimates now and to gather more data and do calculations later. This is a worthy project, and if I did not have other commitments at the moment, I would be working on it. It may be that someone else will be able to work on this before I am.

      Kirsten


      From: pabloburns@...
      To: "Beatty Byrnes DNA" <Beatty_Byrnes_DNA@yahoogroups.com>
      Cc: "Kirsten Saxe" <dnalister@...>, "Daniel Byrne-Rothwell" <maxinej28@...>
      Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 7:03:25 AM
      Subject: Ages of Z255 and L159.2

      Paul D,
         Thanks for your comments. For the record, I did check on the Black Death, and it arrived in Ireland in 1348. That is much closer to the time of a possible bottleneck in the Clan O'Byrne, though since the O'Byrnes were very active against the English of the Pale just a few decades later, it probably was not a true bottleneck--at least for them. A bottleneck that reduced the Wicklow Irish would have had to occur a century earlier.
         One account said the Black Death was much more devastating to town people than rural people, for obvious reasons, so the English town dwellers were more affected than the Irish clans. The result was that the boundaries of the Pale shrank inwards after the plague passed through.
         I don't know if anyone has done a TMRCA comparison of the O'Byrnes, O'Sheas, or any other Z255 tribes. Kirsten, would you know?
      Paul B
    • mikewww7
      For all of the people in the L21plus project or otherwise on my R1b-L21_Haplotypes spreadsheet, Mark Jost can do estimates using Ken Nordtvedt s methods. He
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 5, 2013
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        For all of the people in the L21plus project or otherwise on my R1b-L21_Haplotypes spreadsheet, Mark Jost can do estimates using Ken Nordtvedt's methods. He can do it pretty quickly.

        Mike W

        --- In Beatty_Byrnes_DNA@yahoogroups.com, dnalister@... wrote:
        >
        > Paul B,
        >
        > I don't know of any recent TMRCA work for families within R-Z255.
        >
        > It would be nice to be able to do some TMRCA work including intraclade and interclade comparisons for some of the clusters and clades that we have recognized which include more than one family. I am thinking about R-L159.2 and the various mystery clusters, and also about clusters within R-L159.2. One of the more interesting groups is the Mystery Group 2. Few have tested to confirm that they are L159.2-, Z255+, and to find out if they are ccgg, so we really haven't explored the bounds of this cluster, which might be fairly large. There is potential to do those sorts of estimates now and to gather more data and do calculations later. This is a worthy project, and if I did not have other commitments at the moment, I would be working on it. It may be that someone else will be able to work on this before I am.
        >
        > Kirsten
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: pabloburns@...
        > To: "Beatty Byrnes DNA" <Beatty_Byrnes_DNA@yahoogroups.com>
        > Cc: "Kirsten Saxe" <dnalister@...>, "Daniel Byrne-Rothwell" <maxinej28@...>
        > Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 7:03:25 AM
        > Subject: Ages of Z255 and L159.2
        >
        > Paul D,
        > Thanks for your comments. For the record, I did check on the Black Death, and it arrived in Ireland in 1348. That is much closer to the time of a possible bottleneck in the Clan O'Byrne, though since the O'Byrnes were very active against the English of the Pale just a few decades later, it probably was not a true bottleneck--at least for them. A bottleneck that reduced the Wicklow Irish would have had to occur a century earlier.
        > One account said the Black Death was much more devastating to town people than rural people, for obvious reasons, so the English town dwellers were more affected than the Irish clans. The result was that the boundaries of the Pale shrank inwards after the plague passed through.
        > I don't know if anyone has done a TMRCA comparison of the O'Byrnes, O'Sheas, or any other Z255 tribes. Kirsten, would you know?
        > Paul B
        >
      • Lisa Polk
        Where can I find Mike Walsh s spreadsheet?
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 5, 2013
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          Where can I find Mike Walsh's spreadsheet?
        • Kim Fields
          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/R1b-L21-Project/ under links ________________________________ From: Lisa Polk To:
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 5, 2013
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            From: Lisa Polk <lpolk008c@...>
            To: "Beatty_Byrnes_DNA@yahoogroups.com" <Beatty_Byrnes_DNA@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tue, March 5, 2013 11:03:41 AM
            Subject: [Beatty_Byrnes_DNA] SpreadSheet

             

            Where can I find Mike Walsh's spreadsheet?
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