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McMahon Z255 Candidates

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  • Kopfjäger
    Hey everybody, Has anyone noticed these McMahon matches to the Irish Sea Haplotype? They can be found in groups D3 and D4 in the McMahon DNA Project, labelled
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 9, 2012
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      Hey everybody,

      Has anyone noticed these McMahon matches to the Irish Sea Haplotype? They can be found in groups D3 and D4 in the McMahon DNA Project, labelled "Clare 2 Groupings": http://www.familytreedna.com/public/mcmahon/default.aspx?section=yresults.

      The McMahons were chieftains of this area, correct? But from what I gather from their DNA project, it looks like the main lineages belong to the "Clan Colla" cluster. Anyone know more about this group?


      Neal
    • Paul Ó Duḃṫaiġ
      There are at least two seperate families bearing surname MacMahon in Ireland. The root name Mathghamhain (literally: bear cub , though meaning later just
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 9, 2012
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        There are at least two seperate families bearing surname MacMahon in Ireland. The root name Mathghamhain (literally: "bear cub", though meaning later just meant Bear) is now generally spelt as Mathúin, which reflects modern Irish pronunciation and spelling post spelling reforms in the 1950's.

        Anyways this "root name" was quite common in early Ireland there are a number of different surnames connected to it. Such as
        Mac Mathghamhna / Mac Mathúna = McMahon
        Ó Mathghamhna / Ó Mathúna = O'Mahoney 

        Here's what Woulfe has to say in his 1923 book regarding McMahon:

        Mac MATHGHAMHNA—IVM'Mahowna, M'Maghowney, M'Maghone, M'Machan, MacMaghone, MacMaghon, MacMaghen, MacMachon, MacMahon, MacMahan, MacMann, Mahony, Mahon, (Matthews, Mathews); 'son of Mathghamhain' (bear). There are two great Irish families of this name, viz.: the MacMahons of Thomond, and the MacMahons of Oriel. The MacMahons of Thomond are a branch of the O'Briens, and derive their name and descent from Mahon, son of Murtagh More O'Brien, King of Ireland (1094-1119). Their patrimony was Corca Bhaiscinn, which comprised the baronies of Moyarta and Clonderlaw in the south-west of Co. Clare. The last chief of the name was accidentally killed by his own son at Bearhaven in the year 1602. To this family belonged the celebratedMarshal MacMahon, Duke of Magenta and President of the French Republic. The MacMahons of Oriel were formerly one of the most powerful families in Ulster. On the decline of the O'Carrolls in the 13th century, they became lords of Oriel, a rank which they retained down to the reign of Elizabeth; and even as late as the Cromwellian wars, they had considerable possessions and power in Co. Monaghan. The last chief of the family was Hugh MacMahon who was arrested for complicity in the plot to seize Dublin Castle in 1641, sent to the Tower of London, and, in 1644, beheaded at Tyburn. Besides distinguished chiefs, this family produced many eminent ecclesiastics, three of whom successively filled the primatial see of Armagh in the first half of the 18th century.
        ----
         As you can see he differentiates between the Thomond McMahons who places as a branch of the O'Briens (and thus of the Dál gCais) and the McMahons of Monaghan who are members of the Oirialla (Airghialla == old Irish form), Oirialla was anglisced as Oriel.

        The mention of Corca Bhaiscinn is interesting as this apart from been the name of an area in Clare was also name of a pre-Dál gCais population group in Clare. The Dál gCais only really arose to power in area after the 8-9th century. Obviously if they are Z255+ they wouldn't match the L226+ that appears to mark the O'Briens and other Dál gCais surnames.

        CORCA BHAISCINN, race of Cairbre Baschaoin, seated in the south-west of Co. Clare.

        Regards
        -Paul
        (DF41+)

        On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Kopfjäger <jarl.downing@...> wrote:
         

        Hey everybody,

        Has anyone noticed these McMahon matches to the Irish Sea Haplotype? They can be found in groups D3 and D4 in the McMahon DNA Project, labelled "Clare 2 Groupings": http://www.familytreedna.com/public/mcmahon/default.aspx?section=yresults.

        The McMahons were chieftains of this area, correct? But from what I gather from their DNA project, it looks like the main lineages belong to the "Clan Colla" cluster. Anyone know more about this group?

        Neal


      • mikewww7
        I placed them in the spreadsheet and compared markers and GD s. I would place the following guys into 255-1423 which is 446 =14 390=23 557=17 442=11 (389i=14
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 9, 2012
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          I placed them in the spreadsheet and compared markers and GD's. I would place the following guys into 255-1423 which is 446>=14 390=23 557=17 442=11 (389i=14 464b>=16) and appears to be Z255+ L159.2-

          f113667 McHahon
          f215932 McMahon

          I also found a couple of DF21 probable McMahans and 921 variety folks too. They'll be in the next haplotype spreadsheet update.

          Mike W


          --- In Beatty_Byrnes_DNA@yahoogroups.com, Kopfjäger <jarl.downing@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hey everybody,
          >
          > Has anyone noticed these McMahon matches to the Irish Sea Haplotype? They can be found in groups D3 and D4 in the McMahon DNA Project, labelled "Clare 2 Groupings": http://www.familytreedna.com/public/mcmahon/default.aspx?section=yresults.
          >
          > The McMahons were chieftains of this area, correct? But from what I gather from their DNA project, it looks like the main lineages belong to the "Clan Colla" cluster. Anyone know more about this group?
          >
          >
          > Neal
          >
        • Kopfjäger
          Thanks a lot, Paul! I am going to recruit some of these McMahons for Z255 testing, as I am sure they would test positive. And that is interesting about the
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 9, 2012
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            Thanks a lot, Paul! I am going to recruit some of these McMahons for Z255 testing, as I am sure they would test positive. And that is interesting about the Corca Bhaiscinn, as these McMahons are not related to the Dalcassian ones.


            Neal

            --- In Beatty_Byrnes_DNA@yahoogroups.com, Paul Ã" DuḃṫaiÄ¡ <pduffy81@...> wrote:
            >
            > There are at least two seperate families bearing surname MacMahon in
            > Ireland. The root name Mathghamhain (literally: "bear cub", though meaning
            > later just meant Bear) is now generally spelt as Mathúin, which reflects
            > modern Irish pronunciation and spelling post spelling reforms in the 1950's.
            >
            > Anyways this "root name" was quite common in early Ireland there are a
            > number of different surnames connected to it. Such as
            > Mac Mathghamhna / Mac Mathúna = McMahon
            > Ó Mathghamhna / Ó Mathúna = O'Mahoney
            >
            > Here's what Woulfe has to say in his 1923 book regarding McMahon:
            >
            > Mac MATHGHAMHNA—IV<http://www.libraryireland.com/names/synopsis-types-surnames.php>
            > —*M'Mahowna, M'Maghowney, M'Maghone, M'Machan*, MacMaghone, MacMaghon,
            > MacMaghen, MacMachon, MacMahon, MacMahan, MacMann, Mahony, Mahon,
            > (Matthews, Mathews); 'son of Mathghamhain' (bear). There are two great
            > Irish families of this name, viz.: the MacMahons of Thomond, and the
            > MacMahons of Oriel. The MacMahons of Thomond are a branch of the
            > O'Briens<http://www.libraryireland.com/names/ob/o-briain.php>,
            > and derive their name and descent from Mahon, son of Murtagh More
            > O'Brien<http://www.libraryireland.com/biography/MurtoughOBrien.php>,
            > King of Ireland (1094-1119). Their patrimony was Corca
            > Bhaiscinn<http://www.libraryireland.com/names/irishclans/corca-bhaiscinn.php>,
            > which comprised the baronies of Moyarta and Clonderlaw in the south-west of
            > Co. Clare. The last chief of the name was accidentally killed by his own
            > son at Bearhaven in the year 1602. To this family belonged the
            > celebratedMarshal
            > MacMahon <http://www.libraryireland.com/biography/JohnBMacMahon.php>, Duke
            > of Magenta and President of the French Republic. The MacMahons of Oriel
            > were formerly one of the most powerful families in Ulster. On the decline
            > of the O'Carrolls in the 13th century, they became lords of Oriel, a rank
            > which they retained down to the reign of Elizabeth; and even as late as the
            > Cromwellian wars, they had considerable possessions and power in Co.
            > Monaghan. The last chief of the family was Hugh MacMahon who was arrested
            > for complicity in the plot to seize Dublin Castle in 1641, sent to the
            > Tower of London, and, in 1644, beheaded at Tyburn. Besides distinguished
            > chiefs, this family produced many eminent ecclesiastics, three of whom
            > successively filled the primatial see of Armagh in the first half of the
            > 18th century.
            > ----
            > As you can see he differentiates between the Thomond McMahons who places
            > as a branch of the O'Briens (and thus of the Dál gCais) and the McMahons of
            > Monaghan who are members of the Oirialla (Airghialla == old Irish form),
            > Oirialla was anglisced as Oriel.
            >
            > The mention of Corca Bhaiscinn is interesting as this apart from been the
            > name of an area in Clare was also name of a pre-Dál gCais population group
            > in Clare. The Dál gCais only really arose to power in area after the 8-9th
            > century. Obviously if they are Z255+ they wouldn't match the L226+ that
            > appears to mark the O'Briens and other Dál gCais surnames.
            >
            > CORCA BHAISCINN, race of Cairbre Baschaoin, seated in the south-west of Co.
            > Clare.
            >
            > Regards
            > -Paul
            > (DF41+)
            >
            > On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Kopfjäger <jarl.downing@...> wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > Hey everybody,
            > >
            > > Has anyone noticed these McMahon matches to the Irish Sea Haplotype? They
            > > can be found in groups D3 and D4 in the McMahon DNA Project, labelled
            > > "Clare 2 Groupings":
            > > http://www.familytreedna.com/public/mcmahon/default.aspx?section=yresults.
            > >
            > > The McMahons were chieftains of this area, correct? But from what I gather
            > > from their DNA project, it looks like the main lineages belong to the "Clan
            > > Colla" cluster. Anyone know more about this group?
            > >
            > > Neal
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • marosjor
            That s great. Do the McMahons need to test on L159.2 also? A McHale, Kit #225265 (with ancestors from co. Mayo) recently tested Z255+ and is now testing on
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 11, 2012
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              That's great. Do the McMahons need to test on L159.2 also?

              A McHale, Kit #225265 (with ancestors from co. Mayo) recently tested Z255+ and is now testing on L159.2 as well. He matches others who are L159.2+ at a g.d. of 5 and higher but there is another McHale (from Co. Mayo) who is Z255+, L159.2-. It will be interesting to see what his result is on L159.2.

              Regards,
              Margaret

              --- In Beatty_Byrnes_DNA@yahoogroups.com, Kopfjäger <jarl.downing@...> wrote:
              >
              > Thanks a lot, Paul! I am going to recruit some of these McMahons for Z255 testing, as I am sure they would test positive. And that is interesting about the Corca Bhaiscinn, as these McMahons are not related to the Dalcassian ones.
              >
              >
              > Neal
            • Kopfjäger
              Hi Margaret, It looks like the McMahons will test L159.2-, at least judging by their DYS448 value. But if any of them are interested in testing for L159.2, I
              Message 6 of 6 , Aug 13, 2012
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                Hi Margaret,

                It looks like the McMahons will test L159.2-, at least judging by their DYS448 value. But if any of them are interested in testing for L159.2, I think that is the best course of action, at least for confirmation purposes.


                Neal

                --- In Beatty_Byrnes_DNA@yahoogroups.com, "marosjor" <m.jordan246@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > That's great. Do the McMahons need to test on L159.2 also?
                >
                > A McHale, Kit #225265 (with ancestors from co. Mayo) recently tested Z255+ and is now testing on L159.2 as well. He matches others who are L159.2+ at a g.d. of 5 and higher but there is another McHale (from Co. Mayo) who is Z255+, L159.2-. It will be interesting to see what his result is on L159.2.
                >
                > Regards,
                > Margaret
                >
                > --- In Beatty_Byrnes_DNA@yahoogroups.com, Kopfjäger <jarl.downing@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Thanks a lot, Paul! I am going to recruit some of these McMahons for Z255 testing, as I am sure they would test positive. And that is interesting about the Corca Bhaiscinn, as these McMahons are not related to the Dalcassian ones.
                > >
                > >
                > > Neal
                >
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