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Tie into the Cambro-Norman Invasion of Ireland?

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  • mwwalsh
    I saw some of the notes about Strongbow and the Welsh/Leinster connections. I definitely all into this category of people. I seem to fit into the Ros/Mascy
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 2, 2009
      I saw some of the notes about Strongbow and the Welsh/Leinster connections. I definitely all into this category of people. I seem to fit into the Ros/Mascy superfamily cluster, although I don't how a good a fit that is.

      My Y paternal lineage --- Surname: Walsh MDKA b. 1829 County Kilkenny, Ireland... specifically just west of Ballyhale near what was once called the Walsh Mountains about halfway between the cities of Kilkenny and Waterford, or about 12-13 km from Carrick-on-Suir http://www.geocities.com/johnwalsh2/articles/Walsh.htm

      My Ysearch ID is RXYKH and FTDNA is N54638. I'm, R-L21* (M222-), 406S1=11, 617=13 and my DYS464X is 15c-15c-17c- 17g.

      At 67 markers, the surnames of the people I fall closest to are Morgan, Evans, Watkins, Welsh and Banks. Welsh is from SE Ireland and the other guys are from Wales or are just colonial US. Surprisingly, I'm also close to a guy in Sweden.

      The family folklore, of which quite a bit is written although it can not be proven is --- Walsh of the Mountain Clan founded by Philip "the Welshman" aka Philip Walsh or Philip le Walleys. Philip is a brother to David Walsh and both he and his brother were young knights in the Richard de Clare, aka Strongbow, led invasion of Ireland, 1170 AD. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/invasion.htm
      Philip has multiple, sometimes conflicting pedigrees, but they include that he was a nephew to an military leader named Raymond Le Gros, a grandson to another military leader named Robert FitzStephen, related somehow to Strongbow, and a descendant of Welsh Princess Nest Verch Rhys, who is aka as "Helen of Wales" or "Mother of the Walshes" or "Queen Bee of Cambro-Norman Swarm". Supposedly, this Walsh clan in Ireland inter-married with the powerful Butler family, which is where the given name "Edmund", which is common in my family, comes from.

      Anyone one have any theories on what haplogroups and clusters were of the Cambro-Norman invasion type?
    • kirstensaxe
      Hi Mike, My apologies for letting this post slide for such a long time. I m used to seeing your posts on the P312 board, but not here. I think you probably
      Message 2 of 2 , Jun 8, 2009
        Hi Mike,

        My apologies for letting this post slide for such a long time. I'm used to seeing your posts on the P312 board, but not here. I think you probably have more of an idea of what the DNA of the Cambro-Normans may have been than most of us here.

        Your 11-13 on 406s1-617 is interesting. I know you were assigned to the combo cluster on Vince Tilroe's March Splitstree-generated phylogenetic chart, but the May chart split the combo cluster, and the relationships between men who share the 11-13 combination are very unclear right now. One interesting thing that happened on Vince's latest chart is that one McConnell member of the Leinster cluster ended up very close to you instead of the rest of the Leinster cluster. I think this is because he has 10 repeats on DYS301, which is somewhat uncommon in the Leinster cluster. One or two members of the McConnell family will be receiving L21 test results from FTDNA soon, and one of them has already joined the R-L21Plus project. So it will be interesting to see whether this or any other factor makes any difference in how you and these McConnell men are placed on Vince's next chart.

        John Walden of this group is currently working on a Fluxus phylogenetic chart for the men in the R-L21Plus project, so that should be available very soon. He decided to create this next chart because an Allen man in his family matches someone who is M222+, but tests M222- himself. He was thinking about a WTY for this man, and so he started to explore the R-L21 WTY project to see whether anyone close to his Allen was already in the project. John found that there were two men in the project for whom one to one comparisons suggested a common ancestor who lived less than 1200 years ago. One of those is you, and one of those is one of our Beattie men. I don't know what all of this means, but I suggest that you stay tuned. It's possible that some SNP will be found in the 464xccgg project's WTY participant that will also be found in you. It's also possible that an interesting SNP for you will be found in the Ros/Mascy Superfamily participant, in an Allen participant, or in some other WTY participant. It will be interesting to look at John's chart for clues as we wait for WTY data.

        Kirsten

        --- In Beatty_Byrnes_DNA@yahoogroups.com, "mwwalsh" <mwwalsh7@...> wrote:
        >
        > I saw some of the notes about Strongbow and the Welsh/Leinster connections. I definitely all into this category of people. I seem to fit into the Ros/Mascy superfamily cluster, although I don't how a good a fit that is.
        >
        > My Y paternal lineage --- Surname: Walsh MDKA b. 1829 County Kilkenny, Ireland... specifically just west of Ballyhale near what was once called the Walsh Mountains about halfway between the cities of Kilkenny and Waterford, or about 12-13 km from Carrick-on-Suir http://www.geocities.com/johnwalsh2/articles/Walsh.htm
        >
        > My Ysearch ID is RXYKH and FTDNA is N54638. I'm, R-L21* (M222-), 406S1=11, 617=13 and my DYS464X is 15c-15c-17c- 17g.
        >
        > At 67 markers, the surnames of the people I fall closest to are Morgan, Evans, Watkins, Welsh and Banks. Welsh is from SE Ireland and the other guys are from Wales or are just colonial US. Surprisingly, I'm also close to a guy in Sweden.
        >
        > The family folklore, of which quite a bit is written although it can not be proven is --- Walsh of the Mountain Clan founded by Philip "the Welshman" aka Philip Walsh or Philip le Walleys. Philip is a brother to David Walsh and both he and his brother were young knights in the Richard de Clare, aka Strongbow, led invasion of Ireland, 1170 AD. http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/ihm/invasion.htm
        > Philip has multiple, sometimes conflicting pedigrees, but they include that he was a nephew to an military leader named Raymond Le Gros, a grandson to another military leader named Robert FitzStephen, related somehow to Strongbow, and a descendant of Welsh Princess Nest Verch Rhys, who is aka as "Helen of Wales" or "Mother of the Walshes" or "Queen Bee of Cambro-Norman Swarm". Supposedly, this Walsh clan in Ireland inter-married with the powerful Butler family, which is where the given name "Edmund", which is common in my family, comes from.
        >
        > Anyone one have any theories on what haplogroups and clusters were of the Cambro-Norman invasion type?
        >
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