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Re: trailer/cradle sag

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  • PhilC
    Yes and no. The keel should be fully into the case so the weight of the boat, via the case, rests on the keel then the keel on the trailer. But you can indeed
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 8, 2009
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      Yes and no.
      The keel should be fully into the case so the weight of the boat, via the case, rests on the keel then the keel on the trailer.
      But you can indeed take some weight on the pads or bunks, but should not support the entire weight of the boat that way. The hulls are just not designed for it.

      Another thing to look at when setting up a trailer with pads - place the pads under structure - such as a rear bulkhead or the vee berth bulkhead etc. Placing them in the middle of an unsupported section of hull is inviting fracture.

      --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "fubartex" <mike.j.butler@...> wrote:
      >
      > "Even with a swing keel the majority of the weight of the boat should be resting on the keel with the bunks "balancing" the boat."
      >
      > I don't believe this is correct. I don't think the hulls of swing keeled boats, espically the pivot pins, were design to 'rest on the keel' when the boat is trailered. I've always thought the boat was put on the trailer, then the keel was lowered to rest on the trailer. I can tell you from experience, a leaking pivot pin or worse, a cracked keel slot is a PITA to fix. I'm also around a fleet of catalina 22 swing keels, and not a one rests their boat on the keel. Any swingers out there care to weight in this?
      >
      > Mike
      >
    • PhilC
      Also consider (with swing keels) that if the hull were supported with the keel not taking any weight, the entire weight of that lead keel is Hanging from the
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 8, 2009
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        Also consider (with swing keels) that if the hull were supported with the keel not taking any weight, the entire weight of that lead keel is Hanging from the pivot bolt and the keel winch wire. Go down the road and hit a few bumps.... The pivot bolt, wire, and keel winch mount are asked to hold a lot. Not good.
        >
        > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "fubartex" <mike.j.butler@> wrote:
        > >
        > > "Even with a swing keel the majority of the weight of the boat should be resting on the keel with the bunks "balancing" the boat."
        > >
        > > I don't believe this is correct. I don't think the hulls of swing keeled boats, espically the pivot pins, were design to 'rest on the keel' when the boat is trailered.
      • Mark
        Thank you Phil that s a good tip (I wish someone would have given it to the one that built my trailer) To everyone else who responded to my question, THANKS
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 9, 2009
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          Thank you Phil that's a good tip (I wish someone would have given it to the one that built my trailer)
          To everyone else who responded to my question,
          THANKS
          There's always someone here that knows more about this stuff than I do. This is my first attempt at rebuilding a fiberglass boat and the knowledge and advice that you guys share is much appreciated.
          Mark

          --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "PhilC" <PandD_Collins@...> wrote:
          >
          > Yes and no.
          > The keel should be fully into the case so the weight of the boat, via the case, rests on the keel then the keel on the trailer.
          > But you can indeed take some weight on the pads or bunks, but should not support the entire weight of the boat that way. The hulls are just not designed for it.
          >
          > Another thing to look at when setting up a trailer with pads - place the pads under structure - such as a rear bulkhead or the vee berth bulkhead etc. Placing them in the middle of an unsupported section of hull is inviting fracture.
          >
          > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "fubartex" <mike.j.butler@> wrote:
          > >
          > > "Even with a swing keel the majority of the weight of the boat should be resting on the keel with the bunks "balancing" the boat."
          > >
          > > I don't believe this is correct. I don't think the hulls of swing keeled boats, espically the pivot pins, were design to 'rest on the keel' when the boat is trailered. I've always thought the boat was put on the trailer, then the keel was lowered to rest on the trailer. I can tell you from experience, a leaking pivot pin or worse, a cracked keel slot is a PITA to fix. I'm also around a fleet of catalina 22 swing keels, and not a one rests their boat on the keel. Any swingers out there care to weight in this?
          > >
          > > Mike
          > >
          >
        • JeromeK
          All, I have the same sort of problem. I have a roller trailer I bought to recover my boat when I bought her. U had no way to know what the best set up would
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 11, 2009
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            All,

            I have the same sort of problem. I have a roller trailer I bought to recover my boat when I bought her. U had no way to know what the best set up would be, and when I got her home I noticed one of the rear rollers was causing the hull to push in. The keel is not resting on the keel rollers, although I did place some boards under it to try to relieve it a little.

            The problem is the adjustment bolts will not budge so that I can adjust them. I have a buddy who has suggested I bring her down to his farm where we can use some slings and his excavator to lift her off and impact wrenches to adjust the rollers.

            I have yet to do this due to lack of time, etc, and honey-do lists at home. Do any of you have any suggestions, tips, or warnings on doing this, other than the fact that I don't want to be under the boat adjusting the rollers when she is lifted off the trailer?

            Thanks,
            Jerome

            --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mtbn_97004@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thank you Phil that's a good tip (I wish someone would have given it to the one that built my trailer)
            > To everyone else who responded to my question,
            > THANKS
            > There's always someone here that knows more about this stuff than I do. This is my first attempt at rebuilding a fiberglass boat and the knowledge and advice that you guys share is much appreciated.
            > Mark
            >
            > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "PhilC" <PandD_Collins@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Yes and no.
            > > The keel should be fully into the case so the weight of the boat, via the case, rests on the keel then the keel on the trailer.
            > > But you can indeed take some weight on the pads or bunks, but should not support the entire weight of the boat that way. The hulls are just not designed for it.
            > >
            > > Another thing to look at when setting up a trailer with pads - place the pads under structure - such as a rear bulkhead or the vee berth bulkhead etc. Placing them in the middle of an unsupported section of hull is inviting fracture.
            > >
            > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "fubartex" <mike.j.butler@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > "Even with a swing keel the majority of the weight of the boat should be resting on the keel with the bunks "balancing" the boat."
            > > >
            > > > I don't believe this is correct. I don't think the hulls of swing keeled boats, espically the pivot pins, were design to 'rest on the keel' when the boat is trailered. I've always thought the boat was put on the trailer, then the keel was lowered to rest on the trailer. I can tell you from experience, a leaking pivot pin or worse, a cracked keel slot is a PITA to fix. I'm also around a fleet of catalina 22 swing keels, and not a one rests their boat on the keel. Any swingers out there care to weight in this?
            > > >
            > > > Mike
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • michiganbucc240
            Jerome, That is how I got my boat from the cradle to the trailer that I built… Caution you will want to make sure that you put spreaders (2x4 or 4x4 length
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 12, 2009
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              Jerome,

              That is how I got my boat from the cradle to the trailer that I built… Caution you will want to make sure that you put spreaders (2x4 or 4x4 length wise between the chains on each sling) to keep from compressing the lower to upper hull joint.

              Pick up some penetrating oil to spray on the bolts/nuts to see if you can get them free (impact wrench works great but could shear the bolts off if the nut is truly siesed) – you may need to use some torch heat to free up the bolts if the oil doesn't work.

              Eric


              --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "JeromeK" <jerome.karnowski@...> wrote:
              >
              > All,
              >
              > I have the same sort of problem. I have a roller trailer I bought to recover my boat when I bought her. U had no way to know what the best set up would be, and when I got her home I noticed one of the rear rollers was causing the hull to push in. The keel is not resting on the keel rollers, although I did place some boards under it to try to relieve it a little.
              >
              > The problem is the adjustment bolts will not budge so that I can adjust them. I have a buddy who has suggested I bring her down to his farm where we can use some slings and his excavator to lift her off and impact wrenches to adjust the rollers.
              >
              > I have yet to do this due to lack of time, etc, and honey-do lists at home. Do any of you have any suggestions, tips, or warnings on doing this, other than the fact that I don't want to be under the boat adjusting the rollers when she is lifted off the trailer?
              >
              > Thanks,
              > Jerome
              >
              > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mtbn_97004@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Thank you Phil that's a good tip (I wish someone would have given it to the one that built my trailer)
              > > To everyone else who responded to my question,
              > > THANKS
              > > There's always someone here that knows more about this stuff than I do. This is my first attempt at rebuilding a fiberglass boat and the knowledge and advice that you guys share is much appreciated.
              > > Mark
              > >
              > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "PhilC" <PandD_Collins@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Yes and no.
              > > > The keel should be fully into the case so the weight of the boat, via the case, rests on the keel then the keel on the trailer.
              > > > But you can indeed take some weight on the pads or bunks, but should not support the entire weight of the boat that way. The hulls are just not designed for it.
              > > >
              > > > Another thing to look at when setting up a trailer with pads - place the pads under structure - such as a rear bulkhead or the vee berth bulkhead etc. Placing them in the middle of an unsupported section of hull is inviting fracture.
              > > >
              > > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "fubartex" <mike.j.butler@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > "Even with a swing keel the majority of the weight of the boat should be resting on the keel with the bunks "balancing" the boat."
              > > > >
              > > > > I don't believe this is correct. I don't think the hulls of swing keeled boats, espically the pivot pins, were design to 'rest on the keel' when the boat is trailered. I've always thought the boat was put on the trailer, then the keel was lowered to rest on the trailer. I can tell you from experience, a leaking pivot pin or worse, a cracked keel slot is a PITA to fix. I'm also around a fleet of catalina 22 swing keels, and not a one rests their boat on the keel. Any swingers out there care to weight in this?
              > > > >
              > > > > Mike
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • PhilC
              That would be a great help and make it super easy! (the excavator to lift the boat with.) I ve done all sorts of things, heavy ropes tied to trees holding a
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 12, 2009
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                That would be a great help and make it super easy! (the excavator to lift the boat with.)

                I've done all sorts of things, heavy ropes tied to trees holding a snatch block to my Jeep winch, 4 come-alongs to barn rafters, etc. Mostly unsafe methods but I'm so used to doing things alone and finding a way... (Plus the heaviest boat I've lifted by these nefarious methods was 2400 lbs.) For the record, wire come-alongs don't work, but chain come-alongs work great.

                I would have everything loosened up in advance, all planned out, I wouldn't lift it any farther than you need, and I wouldn't worry about being under it while it's lifted - within standard common sense caution of course. Heavy straps (not ropes) and spreader bars as suggested, and also a line tied from one sling to the other under the boat helps - they tend to want to slide off the ends...

                --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "JeromeK" <jerome.karnowski@...> wrote:
                >
                > All,
                >
                > I have the same sort of problem. I have a roller trailer I bought to recover my boat when I bought her. U had no way to know what the best set up would be, and when I got her home I noticed one of the rear rollers was causing the hull to push in. The keel is not resting on the keel rollers, although I did place some boards under it to try to relieve it a little.
                >
                > The problem is the adjustment bolts will not budge so that I can adjust them. I have a buddy who has suggested I bring her down to his farm where we can use some slings and his excavator to lift her off and impact wrenches to adjust the rollers.
                >
                > I have yet to do this due to lack of time, etc, and honey-do lists at home. Do any of you have any suggestions, tips, or warnings on doing this, other than the fact that I don't want to be under the boat adjusting the rollers when she is lifted off the trailer?
                >
                > Thanks,
                > Jerome
                >
                > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mtbn_97004@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Thank you Phil that's a good tip (I wish someone would have given it to the one that built my trailer)
                > > To everyone else who responded to my question,
                > > THANKS
                > > There's always someone here that knows more about this stuff than I do. This is my first attempt at rebuilding a fiberglass boat and the knowledge and advice that you guys share is much appreciated.
                > > Mark
                > >
                > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "PhilC" <PandD_Collins@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Yes and no.
                > > > The keel should be fully into the case so the weight of the boat, via the case, rests on the keel then the keel on the trailer.
                > > > But you can indeed take some weight on the pads or bunks, but should not support the entire weight of the boat that way. The hulls are just not designed for it.
                > > >
                > > > Another thing to look at when setting up a trailer with pads - place the pads under structure - such as a rear bulkhead or the vee berth bulkhead etc. Placing them in the middle of an unsupported section of hull is inviting fracture.
                > > >
                > > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "fubartex" <mike.j.butler@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > "Even with a swing keel the majority of the weight of the boat should be resting on the keel with the bunks "balancing" the boat."
                > > > >
                > > > > I don't believe this is correct. I don't think the hulls of swing keeled boats, espically the pivot pins, were design to 'rest on the keel' when the boat is trailered. I've always thought the boat was put on the trailer, then the keel was lowered to rest on the trailer. I can tell you from experience, a leaking pivot pin or worse, a cracked keel slot is a PITA to fix. I'm also around a fleet of catalina 22 swing keels, and not a one rests their boat on the keel. Any swingers out there care to weight in this?
                > > > >
                > > > > Mike
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Mike
                Phil I am glad that you added the spreader bars they are very inportant I know of a peraon that started to lift without them. When the sides started to crush
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 12, 2009
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                  Phil I am glad that you added the spreader bars they are very inportant I know of a peraon that started to lift without them. When the sides started to crush inwards he realized that they were necessary. Good sailing

                  Mike

                  --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "PhilC" <PandD_Collins@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > That would be a great help and make it super easy! (the excavator to lift the boat with.)
                  >
                  > I've done all sorts of things, heavy ropes tied to trees holding a snatch block to my Jeep winch, 4 come-alongs to barn rafters, etc. Mostly unsafe methods but I'm so used to doing things alone and finding a way... (Plus the heaviest boat I've lifted by these nefarious methods was 2400 lbs.) For the record, wire come-alongs don't work, but chain come-alongs work great.
                  >
                  > I would have everything loosened up in advance, all planned out, I wouldn't lift it any farther than you need, and I wouldn't worry about being under it while it's lifted - within standard common sense caution of course. Heavy straps (not ropes) and spreader bars as suggested, and also a line tied from one sling to the other under the boat helps - they tend to want to slide off the ends...
                  >
                  > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "JeromeK" <jerome.karnowski@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > All,
                  > >
                  > > I have the same sort of problem. I have a roller trailer I bought to recover my boat when I bought her. U had no way to know what the best set up would be, and when I got her home I noticed one of the rear rollers was causing the hull to push in. The keel is not resting on the keel rollers, although I did place some boards under it to try to relieve it a little.
                  > >
                  > > The problem is the adjustment bolts will not budge so that I can adjust them. I have a buddy who has suggested I bring her down to his farm where we can use some slings and his excavator to lift her off and impact wrenches to adjust the rollers.
                  > >
                  > > I have yet to do this due to lack of time, etc, and honey-do lists at home. Do any of you have any suggestions, tips, or warnings on doing this, other than the fact that I don't want to be under the boat adjusting the rollers when she is lifted off the trailer?
                  > >
                  > > Thanks,
                  > > Jerome
                  > >
                  > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mtbn_97004@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Thank you Phil that's a good tip (I wish someone would have given it to the one that built my trailer)
                  > > > To everyone else who responded to my question,
                  > > > THANKS
                  > > > There's always someone here that knows more about this stuff than I do. This is my first attempt at rebuilding a fiberglass boat and the knowledge and advice that you guys share is much appreciated.
                  > > > Mark
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "PhilC" <PandD_Collins@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Yes and no.
                  > > > > The keel should be fully into the case so the weight of the boat, via the case, rests on the keel then the keel on the trailer.
                  > > > > But you can indeed take some weight on the pads or bunks, but should not support the entire weight of the boat that way. The hulls are just not designed for it.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Another thing to look at when setting up a trailer with pads - place the pads under structure - such as a rear bulkhead or the vee berth bulkhead etc. Placing them in the middle of an unsupported section of hull is inviting fracture.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "fubartex" <mike.j.butler@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > "Even with a swing keel the majority of the weight of the boat should be resting on the keel with the bunks "balancing" the boat."
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I don't believe this is correct. I don't think the hulls of swing keeled boats, espically the pivot pins, were design to 'rest on the keel' when the boat is trailered. I've always thought the boat was put on the trailer, then the keel was lowered to rest on the trailer. I can tell you from experience, a leaking pivot pin or worse, a cracked keel slot is a PITA to fix. I'm also around a fleet of catalina 22 swing keels, and not a one rests their boat on the keel. Any swingers out there care to weight in this?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Mike
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
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