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Minimal Structure?

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  • captainkmcgarry
    Hey there friends, Glad to see that the group is still going! I was worried when my old link failed, the message boards here are so useful! Here s my
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 3, 2009
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      Hey there friends,

      Glad to see that the group is still going! I was worried when my old link failed, the message boards here are so useful!

      Here's my question; I have a bucc 21 that I completely gutted and installed a new floor. What is the minimal structures needed to be sailing? Could I just glass in a fore and aft half bulkheads? Or do I need more support than that? For the chain plates, can I glass in a support right to the side of the hull? One thought there is, am I going to have a problem glassing over the joint where the top of the hull and bottom are sealed together? Thanks for all the help.

      -Kc
    • captainkmcgarry
      Hello Friends, Glad to see this group is still going! I was worried when my link failed to the old site. You guys have helped me through a lot and hopefully
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 3, 2009
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        Hello Friends,

        Glad to see this group is still going! I was worried when my link failed to the old site. You guys have helped me through a lot and hopefully help get me sailing this summer.

        Here's were I left off. Bucc 21, I completely gutted and glassed in a new floor and transom. What is the minimal structure needed inside the boat to be sailing? Could I get away with throwing in a compression post and glassing in just a fore and a aft bulkhead? As for the chain plates, could I glass a support for them right to the side of the hull? My only concern that I thought of was where I want to glass the chain plate supports are on the joint where the top and bottom parts of the hull are sealed together. Possible flexing area and not a great place to glass? All insights and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!

        -KC
      • captainkmcgarry
        ... Sorry for the double post. I thought my first post failed. Look forward to any insight. -Kc
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 3, 2009
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          --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "captainkmcgarry" <captainkmcgarry@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hey there friends,
          >
          > Glad to see that the group is still going! I was worried when my old link failed, the message boards here are so useful!
          >
          > Here's my question; I have a bucc 21 that I completely gutted and installed a new floor. What is the minimal structures needed to be sailing? Could I just glass in a fore and aft half bulkheads? Or do I need more support than that? For the chain plates, can I glass in a support right to the side of the hull? One thought there is, am I going to have a problem glassing over the joint where the top of the hull and bottom are sealed together? Thanks for all the help.
          >
          > -Kc
          >

          Sorry for the double post. I thought my first post failed. Look forward to any insight.

          -Kc
        • Phil Collins
          By aft bulkhead do you mean a bulkhead under the cockpit across the width of the boat? If so, that does provide torsional strength and I d want it in. You
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 4, 2009
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            By 'aft bulkhead' do you mean a bulkhead under the cockpit across the width of the boat? If so, that does provide torsional strength and I'd want it in.

            You definitely need support for the mast base, be it a compression post or a sturdy bulkhead directly under the mast.

            As for chainplate bulkheads, the Buccs are the only boats I've ever seen where the chainplates bolt to the bulkheads (not all models of course) and the bulkheads float loose - only bolted in. Fiberglassing them to the hull and the deck is the norm. I would do it without hesitation. Simply skip the hull to deck joint for about 2" when you do this.

            Be sure the bulkheads conform smoothly to the shape of the hull - introduce no "hard spots." Bed them in a bog of thickened epoxy, and then tab them in (both fore and aft) with at least 2 layers of cloth. Same for the deck above.

            If the bulkheads also bolt to the 'furniture,' do that, don't glass them to the furniture.

            You'll be fine.

            --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "captainkmcgarry" <captainkmcgarry@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Friends,
            >
            > Glad to see this group is still going! I was worried when my link failed to the old site. You guys have helped me through a lot and hopefully help get me sailing this summer.
            >
            > Here's were I left off. Bucc 21, I completely gutted and glassed in a new floor and transom. What is the minimal structure needed inside the boat to be sailing? Could I get away with throwing in a compression post and glassing in just a fore and a aft bulkhead? As for the chain plates, could I glass a support for them right to the side of the hull? My only concern that I thought of was where I want to glass the chain plate supports are on the joint where the top and bottom parts of the hull are sealed together. Possible flexing area and not a great place to glass? All insights and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!
            >
            > -KC
            >
          • Phil Collins
            Couple of other points- When you bog the bulkheads in, smooth the excess into nice radiuses - fillets . Tape over those. Can do it all at once if you like,
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 4, 2009
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              Couple of other points-

              When you bog the bulkheads in, smooth the excess into nice radiuses - "fillets". Tape over those. Can do it all at once if you like, but it's often easier to come back and tape later.

              Vee berth - the vee berth provides stiffness to the flattish sides of the hull forward. If you sail in rough water the sides will "oil can" without the vee berth. You can get by without, but be cautious.
            • captainkmcgarry
              ... Phil, Thanks for the response! You are correct in what I am referrring to as the aft bulkhead. It s kind of like an aft vee berth looking structure.
              Message 6 of 8 , Jun 5, 2009
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                --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Collins" <PandD_Collins@...> wrote:
                >
                > Couple of other points-
                >
                > When you bog the bulkheads in, smooth the excess into nice radiuses - "fillets". Tape over those. Can do it all at once if you like, but it's often easier to come back and tape later.
                >
                > Vee berth - the vee berth provides stiffness to the flattish sides of the hull forward. If you sail in rough water the sides will "oil can" without the vee berth. You can get by without, but be cautious.
                >

                Phil,

                Thanks for the response! You are correct in what I am referrring to as the aft bulkhead. It's kind of like an aft vee berth looking structure. Now, with the aft and vee berth structures, compression post and chain plates reinforced. Do you think i can get away without any more structures in the middle of the boat? Thanks also for the refresher in fiberglassing.

                -KC
              • Phil Collins
                Yep, on a 210 I wouldn t hesitate to sail without the furniture inside. On a bigger boat or a deep fin keel boat, maybe not so confident, clearly the
                Message 7 of 8 , Jun 5, 2009
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                  Yep, on a 210 I wouldn't hesitate to sail without the furniture inside. On a bigger boat or a deep fin keel boat, maybe not so confident, clearly the furnishing glassed into the hull would add some strength here and there, especially to stiffen the "floor' which helps support keel loads (flexing,) but with the poor way Bayliner tabbed mine in - not very much!

                  --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "captainkmcgarry" <captainkmcgarry@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Collins" <PandD_Collins@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Couple of other points-
                  > >
                  > > When you bog the bulkheads in, smooth the excess into nice radiuses - "fillets". Tape over those. Can do it all at once if you like, but it's often easier to come back and tape later.
                  > >
                  > > Vee berth - the vee berth provides stiffness to the flattish sides of the hull forward. If you sail in rough water the sides will "oil can" without the vee berth. You can get by without, but be cautious.
                  > >
                  >
                  > Phil,
                  >
                  > Thanks for the response! You are correct in what I am referrring to as the aft bulkhead. It's kind of like an aft vee berth looking structure. Now, with the aft and vee berth structures, compression post and chain plates reinforced. Do you think i can get away without any more structures in the middle of the boat? Thanks also for the refresher in fiberglassing.
                  >
                  > -KC
                  >
                • captainkmcgarry
                  ... Alright! Thanks for the shot of confidence in my plan and off to the barn I go! Thanks again for the help and when I m finally and hopefully sailing this
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jun 5, 2009
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                    --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Collins" <PandD_Collins@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Yep, on a 210 I wouldn't hesitate to sail without the furniture inside. On a bigger boat or a deep fin keel boat, maybe not so confident, clearly the furnishing glassed into the hull would add some strength here and there, especially to stiffen the "floor' which helps support keel loads (flexing,) but with the poor way Bayliner tabbed mine in - not very much!
                    >
                    > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "captainkmcgarry" <captainkmcgarry@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Collins" <PandD_Collins@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Couple of other points-
                    > > >
                    > > > When you bog the bulkheads in, smooth the excess into nice radiuses - "fillets". Tape over those. Can do it all at once if you like, but it's often easier to come back and tape later.
                    > > >
                    > > > Vee berth - the vee berth provides stiffness to the flattish sides of the hull forward. If you sail in rough water the sides will "oil can" without the vee berth. You can get by without, but be cautious.
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > > Phil,
                    > >
                    > > Thanks for the response! You are correct in what I am referrring to as the aft bulkhead. It's kind of like an aft vee berth looking structure. Now, with the aft and vee berth structures, compression post and chain plates reinforced. Do you think i can get away without any more structures in the middle of the boat? Thanks also for the refresher in fiberglassing.
                    > >
                    > > -KC
                    > >
                    >
                    Alright! Thanks for the shot of confidence in my plan and off to the barn I go! Thanks again for the help and when I'm finally and hopefully sailing this summer I'll share some photos.

                    -KC
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