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bucc 210 standing rigging

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  • mynamesjudge
    Hey, new here and fairly new to sailing. I got a Bucc 210 last year, only took it out a few times before hurricane Irene took my mast down (yeah...). As of now
    Message 1 of 12 , May 8, 2012
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      Hey, new here and fairly new to sailing. I got a Bucc 210 last year, only took it out a few times before hurricane Irene took my mast down (yeah...). As of now it looks like only one cable snapped but I figure the rest are on the way. I really know nothing about replacing this but would rather figure it out myself than party someone else to do it...anyone know of a salvage yard that would have the parts I need? What exactly would I need to do to get a complete replacement new? Also, someone broke into the boat, ripping the hatch off (and stealing my outboard) so I could use a new one although that's something I could probably fabricate. Anyway, seems like a good group, sorry I if I'm a noob but I'm starting to figure things out as I go. Thanks!
    • PhilC
      There is no pooint in trying to find salvaged rigging, even if you could get lucky and find a 210, the rig would more than likely be just as old as yours.
      Message 2 of 12 , May 9, 2012
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        There is no pooint in trying to find salvaged rigging, even if you could get lucky and find a 210, the rig would more than likely be just as old as yours. Rigging does need replaced eventually, and 30-ish years is way past it's intended life.

        Any rigging shop can make up what you need, or you can get the parts (using Norseman compression fittings for example) and make up your own.

        West Marine offers a rigging service, riggingonly.com sells everything you could ever need, (and maybe does fabrication too.) Google for any rigging shops that might be in your area, or nationally for that matter. (Even though this area is not a huge sailors mecca, even we have a small rigging shop in town.)

        You'd need to carefully measure and note the *exact* parts that make up your existing rig. If you order, it might be worth the cost to ship your old stuff to them and let them copy it.

        Re the hatch, if it's a fiberglass hatch (I haven't looked up pics of the 210 to see what it has) then repair or fabrication are probably your only options. You could get lucky and find one off a derelict or salvage boat, but it's a long shot. If it's standard type alum/lexan commercial unit you may be able to simply get a new one that is the same or very close in size and modify the opening for it.

        --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "mynamesjudge" <mynamesjudge@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hey, new here and fairly new to sailing. I got a Bucc 210 last year, only took it out a few times before hurricane Irene took my mast down (yeah...). As of now it looks like only one cable snapped but I figure the rest are on the way. I really know nothing about replacing this but would rather figure it out myself than party someone else to do it...anyone know of a salvage yard that would have the parts I need? What exactly would I need to do to get a complete replacement new? Also, someone broke into the boat, ripping the hatch off (and stealing my outboard) so I could use a new one although that's something I could probably fabricate. Anyway, seems like a good group, sorry I if I'm a noob but I'm starting to figure things out as I go. Thanks!
        >
      • PhilC
        Adn by the way, a complete set of new standing rigging should run in the ballpark of $700-1000. And newbs are perfectly welcome here! ;-)
        Message 3 of 12 , May 9, 2012
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          Adn by the way, a complete set of new standing rigging should run in the ballpark of $700-1000.

          And newbs are perfectly welcome here! ;-)
        • Jbb Doe
          Bucc 240- How can you tell if shrouds/turnbuckles are approaching failure? Can one visually inspect or stress test?   Also...had a near catastrophy averted
          Message 4 of 12 , May 9, 2012
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            Bucc 240- How can you tell if shrouds/turnbuckles are approaching failure? Can one visually inspect or stress test?
             
            Also...had a near catastrophy averted with a failure of a lower rudder pinion....no visible corrosion and when I went to attach the rudder after haul-out, it sheared at the bracket. Electrolic corrosion all the way thru the SS pin with very little exterior evidence of corrosion. Would have lost the rudder overboard if the failure had occured under sail. (along with assorted collateral damage I'm sure).
             
            Post Script: After attaching new pinion gear, I lashed the rudder to the stern u-bolt with a vinyl covered cable to avoid complete loss of rudder if anything similar were to occur in the furtue....scared me!
             
          • Jbb Doe
            BTW- Just talked to West Marine rigging shop....he said test is ANY pitting visible on the SS Shroud cables, and Stalagtite Formations at the point where the
            Message 5 of 12 , May 9, 2012
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              BTW- Just talked to West Marine rigging shop....he said test is ANY pitting visible on the SS Shroud cables, and 'Stalagtite Formations' at the point where the cable enters the turnbuckle.
               
              And from an age perspective, anything past 20 years.......regardless of indicators....
               
              "Just gotta ask yourself, Do you feel lucky...   Well,...DO YA PUNK?"
            • mynamesjudge
              Ouch...thanks for that estimate lol., I m thinking about just scrapping the whole project as I m getting in over my head. In that case, anyone on here
              Message 6 of 12 , May 9, 2012
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                Ouch...thanks for that estimate lol., I'm thinking about just scrapping the whole project as I'm getting in over my head. In that case, anyone on here interested in a 210 that needs new rigging and a new home? It's actually a cool boat but with that news and the fact that my dad left me his Cal II 25, I don't think it's something I'm going to pursue...
              • Andres Espino
                New cable and fittings are not that expensive.. Duckworks is decent i upgraded my 240 to 3/16 (from 1/8) and it was pnly $1.05 a foot.  they have the tools
                Message 7 of 12 , May 9, 2012
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                  New cable and fittings are not that expensive.. Duckworks is decent i upgraded my 240 to 3/16 (from 1/8) and it was pnly $1.05 a foot.  they have the tools and fittings too.  use the old ones as patterns.  Left and right stays are usually the same.

                  Duckworks Boat Building Supply (for home builders)

                  Wire is under rope  for wire-rope  LOL  I guess.

                  Andtrew


                  From: mynamesjudge <mynamesjudge@...>
                  To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 9:03 PM
                  Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] bucc 210 standing rigging

                   
                  Hey, new here and fairly new to sailing. I got a Bucc 210 last year, only took it out a few times before hurricane Irene took my mast down (yeah...). As of now it looks like only one cable snapped but I figure the rest are on the way. I really know nothing about replacing this but would rather figure it out myself than party someone else to do it...anyone know of a salvage yard that would have the parts I need? What exactly would I need to do to get a complete replacement new? Also, someone broke into the boat, ripping the hatch off (and stealing my outboard) so I could use a new one although that's something I could probably fabricate. Anyway, seems like a good group, sorry I if I'm a noob but I'm starting to figure things out as I go. Thanks!



                • Andres Espino
                  I have a 1974 model 240 and I also added a safety cable.  smart idea. I have stern mounted pintles and gudgeons not a pinion gear type.  I carry spares of
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 9, 2012
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                    I have a 1974 model 240 and I also added a safety cable.  smart idea.

                    I have stern mounted pintles and gudgeons not a pinion gear type.  I carry spares of everything i think might break  LOL  You know.. MURPHY follows me around  LOL

                    Usually if the stainless rigging shows serious tarnishing it is worse inside the swaged (crimped on ) joints of fittings.  That is where they generally let go.. almost never in the middle of a cable.

                    Fittings are pretty standard and I measured each of mine and ordered the exact same ones and slightly heavier wire and made up my own set.  I made a whole set for under $500  actually I think closer to $350 but i bought cable cutters and swager.. the budget manual swager from Duckworks at around $50 works like a charmm\ but is slow and allow about 20 min to make each connector.

                    You can do it if you are handy and copy everything EXACTLY as Phil said.. unless you are altering rigging and I would NOT suggest it unless you are knowledgable about boat building and rigging.

                    Andrew



                    From: Jbb Doe <c670cj@...>
                    To: "BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com" <BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2012 1:54 PM
                    Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: bucc 210 standing rigging

                     
                    Bucc 240- How can you tell if shrouds/turnbuckles are approaching failure? Can one visually inspect or stress test?
                     
                    Also...had a near catastrophy averted with a failure of a lower rudder pinion....no visible corrosion and when I went to attach the rudder after haul-out, it sheared at the bracket. Electrolic corrosion all the way thru the SS pin with very little exterior evidence of corrosion. Would have lost the rudder overboard if the failure had occured under sail. (along with assorted collateral damage I'm sure).
                     
                    Post Script: After attaching new pinion gear, I lashed the rudder to the stern u-bolt with a vinyl covered cable to avoid complete loss of rudder if anything similar were to occur in the furtue....scared me!
                     


                  • Andres Espino
                    The Cal 24/25 is a decent boat as well.  The Cal 20 is listed in John Vidgor s boat off Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere! You can put a lot into
                    Message 9 of 12 , May 9, 2012
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                      The Cal 24/25 is a decent boat as well.  The Cal 20 is listed in John Vidgor's boat off Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere!

                      You can put a lot into refurbishing a boat.. i was careful in buying and I have about $5,000 of materials in my refurb of the 240 so far

                      Andrew



                      From: mynamesjudge <mynamesjudge@...>
                      To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2012 2:17 PM
                      Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: bucc 210 standing rigging

                       
                      Ouch...thanks for that estimate lol., I'm thinking about just scrapping the whole project as I'm getting in over my head. In that case, anyone on here interested in a 210 that needs new rigging and a new home? It's actually a cool boat but with that news and the fact that my dad left me his Cal II 25, I don't think it's something I'm going to pursue...



                    • PhilC
                      There was a discussion of this only a week or two ago. Look back in the forum list. There s no stress test, but a more in depth inspection that simply visual
                      Message 10 of 12 , May 10, 2012
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                        There was a discussion of this only a week or two ago. Look back in the forum list.

                        There's no stress test, but a more in depth inspection that simply visual is to get some dye, it will show fractures more easily.

                        If your rig is the original rig, it's way past its intended lifespan...

                        Aside from inspecting exposed stainless, any part that is NOT exposed such as chainplates buried through the deck or the rudder pintles inside bushings (which can hold water) should be checked periodically. Stainless steel rusts when it's kept wet and not exposed to oxygen.

                        --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Jbb Doe <c670cj@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Bucc 240- How can you tell if shrouds/turnbuckles are approaching failure? Can one visually inspect or stress test?
                      • PhilC
                        They better be Exactly the same... ... Left and right stays are usually the same.
                        Message 11 of 12 , May 10, 2012
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                          They better be Exactly the same...

                          --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                          Left and right stays are usually the same.
                        • Andres Espino
                          I have seen them vary slightly (give or take an inch) on many boats as long as the turnbuckles can manage the difference. If you only have 1 to use as a
                          Message 12 of 12 , May 11, 2012
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                            I have seen them vary slightly (give or take an inch) on many boats as long as the turnbuckles can manage the difference.

                            If you only have 1 to use as a pattern you have to make two like that one.. no telling whether the bad or missing one was actually exactly the same.  Also if someone had to jury-rig a repair shroud.. it may also be a little different so long as the turnbuckles work.  The Buccaneer 240 manual gives directions for tensioning and adjusting.. manuals are in Files

                            Andrew


                            From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                            To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 1:01 PM
                            Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: bucc 210 standing rigging

                             
                            They better be Exactly the same...

                            --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                            Left and right stays are usually the same.



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