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tell me about the "A" frame

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  • Paul Morf
    Hi PandD Collins... I ve got a Buc 270 and getting the mast up and down is the only scary thing I have to do on this boat. I always hope to find 3 or 4
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 19, 2011
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      Hi PandD Collins...
      I've got a Buc 270 and getting the mast up and down is the only scary thing I have to do on this boat. I always hope to find 3 or 4 helpful dock side volunteers to help me. BUT, I'd like to be able to work this stepping and lowering deal pretty much my myself. I think I can figure out the gin pole and the wench part of all of this by myself. Can you give me some pointers about the "A" frame? I understand that the A frame keeps the mast from swinging from side to side....But how do you make one? How do you connect the frame to the deck and the mast? Thnx, Paul.
    • Andres Espino
      Please watch the video posted in LINKS in the group page.  It explains it better than anything else I have seen.  If you are logged into Yahoo you can get
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 19, 2011
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        Please watch the video posted in LINKS in the group page.  It explains it better than anything else I have seen.  If you are logged into Yahoo you can get there by clicking this link.

        Andrew

        Mast Stepping
        Mast Stepping a Catalina 22 (1st Take) I CHOSE THIS ONE because it is applicable to a Buccaneer 180 to 270. I'm using this procedure on my Buccaneer 240. Some people use a line through a pulley and wind it up with a deck winch. I prefer this way because I can steady and hold the mast while I crank it up. A search on YouTube will bring up dozens of mast raising methods for different boats.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX9TRjBKCQ8


        From: Paul Morf <pmorf@...>
        To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 10:22 AM
        Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] tell me about the "A" frame

         
        Hi PandD Collins...
        I've got a Buc 270 and getting the mast up and down is the only scary thing I have to do on this boat. I always hope to find 3 or 4 helpful dock side volunteers to help me. BUT, I'd like to be able to work this stepping and lowering deal pretty much my myself. I think I can figure out the gin pole and the wench part of all of this by myself. Can you give me some pointers about the "A" frame? I understand that the A frame keeps the mast from swinging from side to side....But how do you make one? How do you connect the frame to the deck and the mast? Thnx, Paul.



      • PhilC
        That mast raising pole should NOT be 3 feet up the mast! That s a good way to break your mast. (He only gets away with it because a C22 mast is very light
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 19, 2011
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          That mast raising pole should NOT be 3 feet up the mast! That's a good way to break your mast. (He only gets away with it because a C22 mast is very light and goes up easily - there is no need for a 'system' on that mast, a teenager can lift the farkin thing!)

          Put the gin pole at the BASE of the mast, so it doesn't impart point-loaded bending force to the mast.
          And as I cautioned before, the typical bow pulpit is not strong enough to pull up on like that either.

          A little common sense goes a long way there.

          --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
          >
          > Please watch the video posted in LINKS in the group page.  It explains it better than anything else I have seen.  If you are logged into Yahoo you can get there by clicking this link.
          >
          > Andrew
          >
          >
          > Mast Stepping
          > Mast Stepping a Catalina 22 (1st Take) I CHOSE
          > THIS ONE because it is applicable to a Buccaneer 180 to 270. I'm using
          > this procedure on my Buccaneer 240. Some people use a line through a
          > pulley and wind it up with a deck winch. I prefer this way because I can steady and hold the mast while I crank it up. A search on YouTube will
          > bring up dozens of mast raising methods for different boats.
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX9TRjBKCQ8
          >
          >
          > ________________________________
          > From: Paul Morf <pmorf@...>
          > To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 10:22 AM
          > Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] tell me about the "A" frame
          >
          >
          >  
          > Hi PandD Collins...
          > I've got a Buc 270 and getting the mast up and down is the only scary thing I have to do on this boat. I always hope to find 3 or 4 helpful dock side volunteers to help me. BUT, I'd like to be able to work this stepping and lowering deal pretty much my myself. I think I can figure out the gin pole and the wench part of all of this by myself. Can you give me some pointers about the "A" frame? I understand that the A frame keeps the mast from swinging from side to side....But how do you make one? How do you connect the frame to the deck and the mast? Thnx, Paul.
          >
        • Andres Espino
          I did not notice him pulling from the bow pulpit... I am pulling from the forestay plate.  I hear what you are saying but in comparing many methods using an A
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 19, 2011
          • 0 Attachment
            I did not notice him pulling from the bow pulpit... I am pulling from the forestay plate.  I hear what you are saying but in comparing many methods using an A frame from online sources.. particularly YouTube videos.. all I saw were using a frames at least 4 feet long,... or about where someones hands would steady it walking it up. 

            I cannot lift my mast when about 16 feet of it are extended above and behind me and I have other stuff mounted on the mast.  I also have obstructions where I cannot start from farther back in the cockpit.  I have to start from about the entry hatch and cannot lift it from there alone.  In my case it works well and the A frame only limits sideways motion.  Note some boats have side stays which are slack until the mast is raised since they are not opposite the mast step.  I have moved interior bulkheads on my 240 and my chain plates and stays are not opposite the mast any more and remain slack until almost raised..

            There are various reasons for using a gin pole and A frame.. the main one is the chance of losing the mast off sideways while walking it up and trying to secure the forestay with loose rear side stays while going up and front ones that may have to be attached after it is up. and then breaking the mast step or worse.  I now have 4 chain plates.. 2 forward of the mast step and 2 aft of it like the Columbia 24.  I have a support post inside the cabin under the mast step and one size heavier wire rope.

            Andrew


            From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
            To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 3:32 PM
            Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

             
            That mast raising pole should NOT be 3 feet up the mast! That's a good way to break your mast. (He only gets away with it because a C22 mast is very light and goes up easily - there is no need for a 'system' on that mast, a teenager can lift the farkin thing!)

            Put the gin pole at the BASE of the mast, so it doesn't impart point-loaded bending force to the mast.
            And as I cautioned before, the typical bow pulpit is not strong enough to pull up on like that either.

            A little common sense goes a long way there.

            --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
            >
            > Please watch the video posted in LINKS in the group page.  It explains it better than anything else I have seen.  If you are logged into Yahoo you can get there by clicking this link.
            >
            > Andrew
            >
            >
            > Mast Stepping
            > Mast Stepping a Catalina 22 (1st Take) I CHOSE
            > THIS ONE because it is applicable to a Buccaneer 180 to 270. I'm using
            > this procedure on my Buccaneer 240. Some people use a line through a
            > pulley and wind it up with a deck winch. I prefer this way because I can steady and hold the mast while I crank it up. A search on YouTube will
            > bring up dozens of mast raising methods for different boats.
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX9TRjBKCQ8
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Paul Morf <pmorf@...>
            > To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 10:22 AM
            > Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] tell me about the "A" frame
            >
            >
            >  
            > Hi PandD Collins...
            > I've got a Buc 270 and getting the mast up and down is the only scary thing I have to do on this boat. I always hope to find 3 or 4 helpful dock side volunteers to help me. BUT, I'd like to be able to work this stepping and lowering deal pretty much my myself. I think I can figure out the gin pole and the wench part of all of this by myself. Can you give me some pointers about the "A" frame? I understand that the A frame keeps the mast from swinging from side to side....But how do you make one? How do you connect the frame to the deck and the mast? Thnx, Paul.
            >



          • Andres Espino
            Hello Group, Andrew Here, With my favorite Animated Christmas Card of all time from Me to You in the Group. May God Bless you this Christmas Season and grant
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 19, 2011
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              Hello Group, Andrew Here,

              With my favorite Animated Christmas Card of all time from Me to You in the Group.

              May God Bless you this Christmas Season and grant you health and prosperity in the coming year!


              Animated Christmas Card

              Just a neat Christmas Card
              by drbalsconephd 3 years ago 26,013 views


            • Kyle Davis
              Hello everyone,   I m in Kuwait these days and very anxious to get back on the Sound. I m excited to help with this thread. I have a 210 and with the advice
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 19, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello everyone,
                 
                I'm in Kuwait these days and very anxious to get back on the Sound. I'm excited to help with this thread. I have a 210 and with the advice of several old salts, I can step the mast in 15 minutes by myself. I'm gonna state a few qualifiers: I always leave my lower shrouds attached, I always keep my forestay attached. When my mast is stored the masthead is at the bow. This prevents the groove of the mast from being damaged. I have a homemade rack that the mast rests in attached at the bow and the stern cockpit rail. The aforemention rigging keeps the mast 12" inches off the cabin (so you can imagine the height). My reefing line for the main also stays in place. I use it to create a gin pole of the boom by tying a simple clove hitch  around the high side of the mast. I use a second small length of rope to attach to the boom where the main sheet normally would. This creates the "A" for leverage and lifting. The rigging for the main halyard is secured to mast by a shackle and the halyard becomes the line that runs through a cheek block attached to a stanchion of the cockpit rail then one of the existing winches.
                 
                So at the ramp here's what I do:
                Undo the lashings on the mast
                Push the mast forward and slip the bolt into the deck fitting
                attach the boom to the mast
                attach reef line to mast
                attach secondary line from boom to lower end of mast (the "A")
                main halyard runs through pulley on boom and cheek block
                then I start winching (wish I had self tailing one)
                it's a little bit hard at first, but it nearly springs up after a short pull
                once the mast is stepped I attach the aft stay to the chainplate
                attach the upper shrouds
                remove the running rigging for stepping and store it in a bag in the cockpit
                paint marks on the turnbuckles indicate close adjustment for tension on all 6 turnbuckles
                attach the outboard and back the happy KAT into the water
                 
                No kidding 15minutes. I wish I had access to my pics at home but, as I'm on a deployment right now....you know.
                 
                Anyway, I hope my description of my technique was useful. I did watch that video on youtube. I don't have a furler and I don't use all the extra wood stuff. I bet I can him into the water everyday of the week.
                Ciao
                 
                 
                Kyle Davis
                Cpt Katalina Half Moon
                "Be good, or be good at it"
                From: Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                To: "BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com" <BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 4:26 AM
                Subject: Re: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                 
                I did not notice him pulling from the bow pulpit... I am pulling from the forestay plate.  I hear what you are saying but in comparing many methods using an A frame from online sources.. particularly YouTube videos.. all I saw were using a frames at least 4 feet long,... or about where someones hands would steady it walking it up. 

                I cannot lift my mast when about 16 feet of it are extended above and behind me and I have other stuff mounted on the mast.  I also have obstructions where I cannot start from farther back in the cockpit.  I have to start from about the entry hatch and cannot lift it from there alone.  In my case it works well and the A frame only limits sideways motion.  Note some boats have side stays which are slack until the mast is raised since they are not opposite the mast step.  I have moved interior bulkheads on my 240 and my chain plates and stays are not opposite the mast any more and remain slack until almost raised..

                There are various reasons for using a gin pole and A frame.. the main one is the chance of losing the mast off sideways while walking it up and trying to secure the forestay with loose rear side stays while going up and front ones that may have to be attached after it is up. and then breaking the mast step or worse.  I now have 4 chain plates.. 2 forward of the mast step and 2 aft of it like the Columbia 24.  I have a support post inside the cabin under the mast step and one size heavier wire rope.

                Andrew

                From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 3:32 PM
                Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                 
                That mast raising pole should NOT be 3 feet up the mast! That's a good way to break your mast. (He only gets away with it because a C22 mast is very light and goes up easily - there is no need for a 'system' on that mast, a teenager can lift the farkin thing!)

                Put the gin pole at the BASE of the mast, so it doesn't impart point-loaded bending force to the mast.
                And as I cautioned before, the typical bow pulpit is not strong enough to pull up on like that either.

                A little common sense goes a long way there.

                --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                >
                > Please watch the video posted in LINKS in the group page.  It explains it better than anything else I have seen.  If you are logged into Yahoo you can get there by clicking this link.
                >
                > Andrew
                >
                >
                > Mast Stepping
                > Mast Stepping a Catalina 22 (1st Take) I CHOSE
                > THIS ONE because it is applicable to a Buccaneer 180 to 270. I'm using
                > this procedure on my Buccaneer 240. Some people use a line through a
                > pulley and wind it up with a deck winch. I prefer this way because I can steady and hold the mast while I crank it up. A search on YouTube will
                > bring up dozens of mast raising methods for different boats.
                > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX9TRjBKCQ8
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: Paul Morf <pmorf@...>
                > To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 10:22 AM
                > Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] tell me about the "A" frame
                >
                >
                >  
                > Hi PandD Collins...
                > I've got a Buc 270 and getting the mast up and down is the only scary thing I have to do on this boat. I always hope to find 3 or 4 helpful dock side volunteers to help me. BUT, I'd like to be able to work this stepping and lowering deal pretty much my myself. I think I can figure out the gin pole and the wench part of all of this by myself. Can you give me some pointers about the "A" frame? I understand that the A frame keeps the mast from swinging from side to side....But how do you make one? How do you connect the frame to the deck and the mast? Thnx, Paul.
                >





              • PhilC
                It can be even simpler and faster. On a boat with straight (in-line) spreaders, I prefer to drop forward, makes everything so much easier. On a boat with swept
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 20, 2011
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                  It can be even simpler and faster.

                  On a boat with straight (in-line) spreaders, I prefer to drop forward, makes everything so much easier.



                  On a boat with swept spreaders like most buccs, drop the mast aft. Then you don't have to disconnect Anything but the forestay.

                  My last couple of boats have taller masts than the 210 or 240. I am 50+ and skinny (not a strapping muscular guy at all!)

                  I made a wood support that drops across the stern rails, with a roller in the middle. (boat trailer rubber roller.)

                  I made a wood support that drops onto the bow pulpit, also with a roller.

                  I never disconnect any of the rigging.

                  To step the mast, untie the mast from the supports (it will be sitting in the rollers) and undo the bungees securing the rigging.

                  Slide the mast aft and pin the mast base.

                  Stand in the stern, one foot on each cockpit seat, lift the mast onto your shoulder.

                  Then do a clean and jerk motion using your legs to 'toss' the mast upward, straighten your arms and now you're holding the mast over your head. This lift is the only muscular effort needed. Once your arms are straight, your legs do the work.

                  Walk the mast forward, hand over hand. When you get the cabin, if you can push the mast all the way by standing on the companionway, you're home free. At this point the mast is at a high enough angle the weight is mostly gone. If you can't reach it up at this point, step up onto the cabin top and continue forward. The shrouds stop the mast from falling forward.

                  If you have a friend handy, have them pin the forestay. If not, I rig a line from a halyard or something, thru the bow cleat and back to the mast base. Once the mast is up, I pull that line snug and cleat if off. Then go pin the forestay.

                  Boom done. Takes only minutes.

                  Why disconnect ANY of the rigging? No need. Why rig a winching setup? No need.

                  I've done the above, single handed, at least Two Hundred times, with masts 26, 28, even 30 feet! Never strained a muscle.



                  The boat I currently race only has a 26 foot mast, a heavy section too, but I cannot get aft far enough, so from only 5-6 feet from the mast base it takes a lot of effort to get that initial lift, but I still manage. Most of the time my crew is helping rig the boat anyway, so I have someone lend a hand for pushing up that initial lift. Even so, no winches, no rigged bits, just slide, pin, lift, pin, and it's done.

                  On the boats with in-line spreaders, dropping the mast forward is easier. And lifting the mast from the bow and walking it back is easier than straddling the cockpit.

                  Anyway, that's it for me, I've given the best advice I can. Nothing wrong with rigging a lift if it makes you more comfortable, but small boat masts aren't usually that much trouble.


                  --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Kyle Davis <blackhawk_master68@...> wrote:
                  >
                • Kyle Davis
                  Phil, I started doing that. I guess it was the desire to build a better mouse trap. You re right as usual. It was pretty easy. Back to basics. Thanks. Kyle
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 21, 2011
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                    Phil,
                    I started doing that. I guess it was the desire to build a better mouse trap. You're right as usual. It was pretty easy. Back to basics. Thanks.
                     
                    Kyle Davis
                    "Be good, or be good at it"
                    From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                    To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 11:29 PM
                    Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                     
                    It can be even simpler and faster.

                    On a boat with straight (in-line) spreaders, I prefer to drop forward, makes everything so much easier.

                    On a boat with swept spreaders like most buccs, drop the mast aft. Then you don't have to disconnect Anything but the forestay.

                    My last couple of boats have taller masts than the 210 or 240. I am 50+ and skinny (not a strapping muscular guy at all!)

                    I made a wood support that drops across the stern rails, with a roller in the middle. (boat trailer rubber roller.)

                    I made a wood support that drops onto the bow pulpit, also with a roller.

                    I never disconnect any of the rigging.

                    To step the mast, untie the mast from the supports (it will be sitting in the rollers) and undo the bungees securing the rigging.

                    Slide the mast aft and pin the mast base.

                    Stand in the stern, one foot on each cockpit seat, lift the mast onto your shoulder.

                    Then do a clean and jerk motion using your legs to 'toss' the mast upward, straighten your arms and now you're holding the mast over your head. This lift is the only muscular effort needed. Once your arms are straight, your legs do the work.

                    Walk the mast forward, hand over hand. When you get the cabin, if you can push the mast all the way by standing on the companionway, you're home free. At this point the mast is at a high enough angle the weight is mostly gone. If you can't reach it up at this point, step up onto the cabin top and continue forward. The shrouds stop the mast from falling forward.

                    If you have a friend handy, have them pin the forestay. If not, I rig a line from a halyard or something, thru the bow cleat and back to the mast base. Once the mast is up, I pull that line snug and cleat if off. Then go pin the forestay.

                    Boom done. Takes only minutes.

                    Why disconnect ANY of the rigging? No need. Why rig a winching setup? No need.

                    I've done the above, single handed, at least Two Hundred times, with masts 26, 28, even 30 feet! Never strained a muscle.

                    The boat I currently race only has a 26 foot mast, a heavy section too, but I cannot get aft far enough, so from only 5-6 feet from the mast base it takes a lot of effort to get that initial lift, but I still manage. Most of the time my crew is helping rig the boat anyway, so I have someone lend a hand for pushing up that initial lift. Even so, no winches, no rigged bits, just slide, pin, lift, pin, and it's done.

                    On the boats with in-line spreaders, dropping the mast forward is easier. And lifting the mast from the bow and walking it back is easier than straddling the cockpit.

                    Anyway, that's it for me, I've given the best advice I can. Nothing wrong with rigging a lift if it makes you more comfortable, but small boat masts aren't usually that much trouble.

                    --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Kyle Davis <blackhawk_master68@...> wrote:
                    >



                  • Andres Espino
                    Unusual technique.  Most folks raise the mast from the stern toward the bow.  I see no fault with your method tho.  My 240  is slightly larger than the
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 21, 2011
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                      Unusual technique.  Most folks raise the mast from the stern toward the bow.  I see no fault with your method tho.  My 240  is slightly larger than the 180  

                      You can see the 180specs here.


                      and compare with my 240 here


                      Even with my alterations, I can raise my mast in about 30 min more or less.  I think this should be about average for boats under 30 feet in length.  I attach the gooseneck to my mast after the mast is raised.

                      Andrew





                      From: Kyle Davis <blackhawk_master68@...>
                      To: "BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com" <BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 12:10 AM
                      Subject: Re: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                       
                      Hello everyone,
                       
                      I'm in Kuwait these days and very anxious to get back on the Sound. I'm excited to help with this thread. I have a 210 and with the advice of several old salts, I can step the mast in 15 minutes by myself. I'm gonna state a few qualifiers: I always leave my lower shrouds attached, I always keep my forestay attached. When my mast is stored the masthead is at the bow. This prevents the groove of the mast from being damaged. I have a homemade rack that the mast rests in attached at the bow and the stern cockpit rail. The aforemention rigging keeps the mast 12" inches off the cabin (so you can imagine the height). My reefing line for the main also stays in place. I use it to create a gin pole of the boom by tying a simple clove hitch  around the high side of the mast. I use a second small length of rope to attach to the boom where the main sheet normally would. This creates the "A" for leverage and lifting. The rigging for the main halyard is secured to mast by a shackle and the halyard becomes the line that runs through a cheek block attached to a stanchion of the cockpit rail then one of the existing winches.
                       
                      So at the ramp here's what I do:
                      Undo the lashings on the mast
                      Push the mast forward and slip the bolt into the deck fitting
                      attach the boom to the mast
                      attach reef line to mast
                      attach secondary line from boom to lower end of mast (the "A")
                      main halyard runs through pulley on boom and cheek block
                      then I start winching (wish I had self tailing one)
                      it's a little bit hard at first, but it nearly springs up after a short pull
                      once the mast is stepped I attach the aft stay to the chainplate
                      attach the upper shrouds
                      remove the running rigging for stepping and store it in a bag in the cockpit
                      paint marks on the turnbuckles indicate close adjustment for tension on all 6 turnbuckles
                      attach the outboard and back the happy KAT into the water
                       
                      No kidding 15minutes. I wish I had access to my pics at home but, as I'm on a deployment right now....you know.
                       
                      Anyway, I hope my description of my technique was useful. I did watch that video on youtube. I don't have a furler and I don't use all the extra wood stuff. I bet I can him into the water everyday of the week.
                      Ciao
                       
                       
                      Kyle Davis
                      Cpt Katalina Half Moon
                      "Be good, or be good at it"
                      From: Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                      To: "BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com" <BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 4:26 AM
                      Subject: Re: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                       
                      I did not notice him pulling from the bow pulpit... I am pulling from the forestay plate.  I hear what you are saying but in comparing many methods using an A frame from online sources.. particularly YouTube videos.. all I saw were using a frames at least 4 feet long,... or about where someones hands would steady it walking it up. 

                      I cannot lift my mast when about 16 feet of it are extended above and behind me and I have other stuff mounted on the mast.  I also have obstructions where I cannot start from farther back in the cockpit.  I have to start from about the entry hatch and cannot lift it from there alone.  In my case it works well and the A frame only limits sideways motion.  Note some boats have side stays which are slack until the mast is raised since they are not opposite the mast step.  I have moved interior bulkheads on my 240 and my chain plates and stays are not opposite the mast any more and remain slack until almost raised..

                      There are various reasons for using a gin pole and A frame.. the main one is the chance of losing the mast off sideways while walking it up and trying to secure the forestay with loose rear side stays while going up and front ones that may have to be attached after it is up. and then breaking the mast step or worse.  I now have 4 chain plates.. 2 forward of the mast step and 2 aft of it like the Columbia 24.  I have a support post inside the cabin under the mast step and one size heavier wire rope.

                      Andrew

                      From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                      To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 3:32 PM
                      Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                       
                      That mast raising pole should NOT be 3 feet up the mast! That's a good way to break your mast. (He only gets away with it because a C22 mast is very light and goes up easily - there is no need for a 'system' on that mast, a teenager can lift the farkin thing!)

                      Put the gin pole at the BASE of the mast, so it doesn't impart point-loaded bending force to the mast.
                      And as I cautioned before, the typical bow pulpit is not strong enough to pull up on like that either.

                      A little common sense goes a long way there.

                      --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Please watch the video posted in LINKS in the group page.  It explains it better than anything else I have seen.  If you are logged into Yahoo you can get there by clicking this link.
                      >
                      > Andrew
                      >
                      >
                      > Mast Stepping
                      > Mast Stepping a Catalina 22 (1st Take) I CHOSE
                      > THIS ONE because it is applicable to a Buccaneer 180 to 270. I'm using
                      > this procedure on my Buccaneer 240. Some people use a line through a
                      > pulley and wind it up with a deck winch. I prefer this way because I can steady and hold the mast while I crank it up. A search on YouTube will
                      > bring up dozens of mast raising methods for different boats.
                      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX9TRjBKCQ8
                      >
                      >
                      > ________________________________
                      > From: Paul Morf <pmorf@...>
                      > To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Monday, December 19, 2011 10:22 AM
                      > Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] tell me about the "A" frame
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      > Hi PandD Collins...
                      > I've got a Buc 270 and getting the mast up and down is the only scary thing I have to do on this boat. I always hope to find 3 or 4 helpful dock side volunteers to help me. BUT, I'd like to be able to work this stepping and lowering deal pretty much my myself. I think I can figure out the gin pole and the wench part of all of this by myself. Can you give me some pointers about the "A" frame? I understand that the A frame keeps the mast from swinging from side to side....But how do you make one? How do you connect the frame to the deck and the mast? Thnx, Paul.
                      >







                    • Andres Espino
                      Phil.. how do you deal with 2 chainplates on both sides and front stays longer than the back ones which do not reach to connect until the mast is nearly
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 21, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Phil.. how do you deal with 2 chainplates on both sides and front stays longer than the back ones which do not reach to connect until the mast is nearly vertical?  Or do you still have only single chainplate?

                        My rear stays remain slack until the mast is 3/4 vertical and the front stays are too short to attach until the mast is upright.

                        Andrew


                        From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                        To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:29 PM
                        Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                         
                        It can be even simpler and faster.

                        On a boat with straight (in-line) spreaders, I prefer to drop forward, makes everything so much easier.

                        On a boat with swept spreaders like most buccs, drop the mast aft. Then you don't have to disconnect Anything but the forestay.

                        My last couple of boats have taller masts than the 210 or 240. I am 50+ and skinny (not a strapping muscular guy at all!)

                        I made a wood support that drops across the stern rails, with a roller in the middle. (boat trailer rubber roller.)

                        I made a wood support that drops onto the bow pulpit, also with a roller.

                        I never disconnect any of the rigging.

                        To step the mast, untie the mast from the supports (it will be sitting in the rollers) and undo the bungees securing the rigging.

                        Slide the mast aft and pin the mast base.

                        Stand in the stern, one foot on each cockpit seat, lift the mast onto your shoulder.

                        Then do a clean and jerk motion using your legs to 'toss' the mast upward, straighten your arms and now you're holding the mast over your head. This lift is the only muscular effort needed. Once your arms are straight, your legs do the work.

                        Walk the mast forward, hand over hand. When you get the cabin, if you can push the mast all the way by standing on the companionway, you're home free. At this point the mast is at a high enough angle the weight is mostly gone. If you can't reach it up at this point, step up onto the cabin top and continue forward. The shrouds stop the mast from falling forward.

                        If you have a friend handy, have them pin the forestay. If not, I rig a line from a halyard or something, thru the bow cleat and back to the mast base. Once the mast is up, I pull that line snug and cleat if off. Then go pin the forestay.

                        Boom done. Takes only minutes.

                        Why disconnect ANY of the rigging? No need. Why rig a winching setup? No need.

                        I've done the above, single handed, at least Two Hundred times, with masts 26, 28, even 30 feet! Never strained a muscle.

                        The boat I currently race only has a 26 foot mast, a heavy section too, but I cannot get aft far enough, so from only 5-6 feet from the mast base it takes a lot of effort to get that initial lift, but I still manage. Most of the time my crew is helping rig the boat anyway, so I have someone lend a hand for pushing up that initial lift. Even so, no winches, no rigged bits, just slide, pin, lift, pin, and it's done.

                        On the boats with in-line spreaders, dropping the mast forward is easier. And lifting the mast from the bow and walking it back is easier than straddling the cockpit.

                        Anyway, that's it for me, I've given the best advice I can. Nothing wrong with rigging a lift if it makes you more comfortable, but small boat masts aren't usually that much trouble.

                        --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Kyle Davis <blackhawk_master68@...> wrote:
                        >



                      • Kyle Davis
                        Andrew, 210 s and 240 s are single chainplates. It s easy.   Kyle Davis Be good, or be good at it ________________________________ From: Andres Espino
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 21, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Andrew,

                          210's and 240's are single chainplates. It's easy.
                           
                          Kyle Davis
                          "Be good, or be good at it"

                          From: Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                          To: "BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com" <BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 8:03 PM
                          Subject: Re: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                           
                          Phil.. how do you deal with 2 chainplates on both sides and front stays longer than the back ones which do not reach to connect until the mast is nearly vertical?  Or do you still have only single chainplate?

                          My rear stays remain slack until the mast is 3/4 vertical and the front stays are too short to attach until the mast is upright.

                          Andrew


                          From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                          To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:29 PM
                          Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                           
                          It can be even simpler and faster.

                          On a boat with straight (in-line) spreaders, I prefer to drop forward, makes everything so much easier.

                          On a boat with swept spreaders like most buccs, drop the mast aft. Then you don't have to disconnect Anything but the forestay.

                          My last couple of boats have taller masts than the 210 or 240. I am 50+ and skinny (not a strapping muscular guy at all!)

                          I made a wood support that drops across the stern rails, with a roller in the middle. (boat trailer rubber roller.)

                          I made a wood support that drops onto the bow pulpit, also with a roller.

                          I never disconnect any of the rigging.

                          To step the mast, untie the mast from the supports (it will be sitting in the rollers) and undo the bungees securing the rigging.

                          Slide the mast aft and pin the mast base.

                          Stand in the stern, one foot on each cockpit seat, lift the mast onto your shoulder.

                          Then do a clean and jerk motion using your legs to 'toss' the mast upward, straighten your arms and now you're holding the mast over your head. This lift is the only muscular effort needed. Once your arms are straight, your legs do the work.

                          Walk the mast forward, hand over hand. When you get the cabin, if you can push the mast all the way by standing on the companionway, you're home free. At this point the mast is at a high enough angle the weight is mostly gone. If you can't reach it up at this point, step up onto the cabin top and continue forward. The shrouds stop the mast from falling forward.

                          If you have a friend handy, have them pin the forestay. If not, I rig a line from a halyard or something, thru the bow cleat and back to the mast base. Once the mast is up, I pull that line snug and cleat if off. Then go pin the forestay.

                          Boom done. Takes only minutes.

                          Why disconnect ANY of the rigging? No need. Why rig a winching setup? No need.

                          I've done the above, single handed, at least Two Hundred times, with masts 26, 28, even 30 feet! Never strained a muscle.

                          The boat I currently race only has a 26 foot mast, a heavy section too, but I cannot get aft far enough, so from only 5-6 feet from the mast base it takes a lot of effort to get that initial lift, but I still manage. Most of the time my crew is helping rig the boat anyway, so I have someone lend a hand for pushing up that initial lift. Even so, no winches, no rigged bits, just slide, pin, lift, pin, and it's done.

                          On the boats with in-line spreaders, dropping the mast forward is easier. And lifting the mast from the bow and walking it back is easier than straddling the cockpit.

                          Anyway, that's it for me, I've given the best advice I can. Nothing wrong with rigging a lift if it makes you more comfortable, but small boat masts aren't usually that much trouble.

                          --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Kyle Davis <blackhawk_master68@...> wrote:
                          >





                        • PhilC
                          If you have fore and aft lowers, obviously something has to be disconnected. Somewhat unusual for a small boat though.
                          Message 12 of 15 , Dec 21, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            If you have fore and aft lowers, obviously something has to be disconnected. Somewhat unusual for a small boat though.

                            --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Phil.. how do you deal with 2 chainplates on both sides and front stays longer than the back ones which do not reach to connect until the mast is nearly vertical?  Or do you still have only single chainplate?
                            >
                            > My rear stays remain slack until the mast is 3/4 vertical and the front stays are too short to attach until the mast is upright.
                            >
                            > Andrew
                            >
                            >
                          • Andres Espino
                            It would be Kyle, except my 240 was gutted when I bought it and I re-did the interior and moved bulkheads and added a second chain plate (like a Columbia)  to
                            Message 13 of 15 , Dec 21, 2011
                            • 0 Attachment
                              It would be Kyle, except my 240 was gutted when I bought it and I re-did the interior and moved bulkheads and added a second chain plate (like a Columbia)  to either side to make it more blue water suited.  I explained this in a previous post.  I also upgraded my cable from 1/8 to 3/16 as well and each cable now has it's own chainplate, backed and reinforced inside.  Now two stays are 18 inches forward of the mast step and the other two18 inches aft of the mast step (to attach to inside bulkheads).  There is also added a support post inside the cabin under the mast step.

                              The rear two stays remain slack until the mast is nearly vertical and the front two cannot be attached until the mast is raised.  It is a whole lot sturdier now and Ithink better for an Atlantic crossing.

                              In the archives is a list of things I am doing to my240 to beef it up for ocean cruising in the manner John Vigor recommends doing to the Catalina in his book "Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere".

                              I am now making a roller furler as well.

                              Andrew



                              From: Kyle Davis <blackhawk_master68@...>
                              To: "BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com" <BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 10:41 AM
                              Subject: Re: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                               
                              Andrew,

                              210's and 240's are single chainplates. It's easy.
                               
                              Kyle Davis
                              "Be good, or be good at it"

                              From: Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                              To: "BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com" <BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 8:03 PM
                              Subject: Re: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                               
                              Phil.. how do you deal with 2 chainplates on both sides and front stays longer than the back ones which do not reach to connect until the mast is nearly vertical?  Or do you still have only single chainplate?

                              My rear stays remain slack until the mast is 3/4 vertical and the front stays are too short to attach until the mast is upright.

                              Andrew


                              From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                              To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:29 PM
                              Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                               
                              It can be even simpler and faster.

                              On a boat with straight (in-line) spreaders, I prefer to drop forward, makes everything so much easier.

                              On a boat with swept spreaders like most buccs, drop the mast aft. Then you don't have to disconnect Anything but the forestay.

                              My last couple of boats have taller masts than the 210 or 240. I am 50+ and skinny (not a strapping muscular guy at all!)

                              I made a wood support that drops across the stern rails, with a roller in the middle. (boat trailer rubber roller.)

                              I made a wood support that drops onto the bow pulpit, also with a roller.

                              I never disconnect any of the rigging.

                              To step the mast, untie the mast from the supports (it will be sitting in the rollers) and undo the bungees securing the rigging.

                              Slide the mast aft and pin the mast base.

                              Stand in the stern, one foot on each cockpit seat, lift the mast onto your shoulder.

                              Then do a clean and jerk motion using your legs to 'toss' the mast upward, straighten your arms and now you're holding the mast over your head. This lift is the only muscular effort needed. Once your arms are straight, your legs do the work.

                              Walk the mast forward, hand over hand. When you get the cabin, if you can push the mast all the way by standing on the companionway, you're home free. At this point the mast is at a high enough angle the weight is mostly gone. If you can't reach it up at this point, step up onto the cabin top and continue forward. The shrouds stop the mast from falling forward.

                              If you have a friend handy, have them pin the forestay. If not, I rig a line from a halyard or something, thru the bow cleat and back to the mast base. Once the mast is up, I pull that line snug and cleat if off. Then go pin the forestay.

                              Boom done. Takes only minutes.

                              Why disconnect ANY of the rigging? No need. Why rig a winching setup? No need.

                              I've done the above, single handed, at least Two Hundred times, with masts 26, 28, even 30 feet! Never strained a muscle.

                              The boat I currently race only has a 26 foot mast, a heavy section too, but I cannot get aft far enough, so from only 5-6 feet from the mast base it takes a lot of effort to get that initial lift, but I still manage. Most of the time my crew is helping rig the boat anyway, so I have someone lend a hand for pushing up that initial lift. Even so, no winches, no rigged bits, just slide, pin, lift, pin, and it's done.

                              On the boats with in-line spreaders, dropping the mast forward is easier. And lifting the mast from the bow and walking it back is easier than straddling the cockpit.

                              Anyway, that's it for me, I've given the best advice I can. Nothing wrong with rigging a lift if it makes you more comfortable, but small boat masts aren't usually that much trouble.

                              --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Kyle Davis <blackhawk_master68@...> wrote:
                              >







                            • Andres Espino
                              Yes I have altered the bulkheads spacing and beefed it up so each cable has its own chain plate.  I described it in a previous post. Andrew
                              Message 14 of 15 , Dec 21, 2011
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Yes I have altered the bulkheads spacing and beefed it up so each cable has its own chain plate.  I described it in a previous post.

                                Andrew


                                From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                                To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 12:44 PM
                                Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                                 
                                If you have fore and aft lowers, obviously something has to be disconnected. Somewhat unusual for a small boat though.

                                --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Phil.. how do you deal with 2 chainplates on both sides and front stays longer than the back ones which do not reach to connect until the mast is nearly vertical?  Or do you still have only single chainplate?
                                >
                                > My rear stays remain slack until the mast is 3/4 vertical and the front stays are too short to attach until the mast is upright.
                                >
                                > Andrew
                                >
                                >



                              • Kyle Davis
                                I understand.   Kyle Davis Be good, or be good at it ________________________________ From: Andres Espino To:
                                Message 15 of 15 , Dec 22, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I understand.
                                   
                                   
                                  Kyle Davis
                                  "Be good, or be good at it"
                                  From: Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                                  To: "BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com" <BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 3:57 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                                   
                                  It would be Kyle, except my 240 was gutted when I bought it and I re-did the interior and moved bulkheads and added a second chain plate (like a Columbia)  to either side to make it more blue water suited.  I explained this in a previous post.  I also upgraded my cable from 1/8 to 3/16 as well and each cable now has it's own chainplate, backed and reinforced inside.  Now two stays are 18 inches forward of the mast step and the other two18 inches aft of the mast step (to attach to inside bulkheads).  There is also added a support post inside the cabin under the mast step.

                                  The rear two stays remain slack until the mast is nearly vertical and the front two cannot be attached until the mast is raised.  It is a whole lot sturdier now and Ithink better for an Atlantic crossing.

                                  In the archives is a list of things I am doing to my240 to beef it up for ocean cruising in the manner John Vigor recommends doing to the Catalina in his book "Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere".

                                  I am now making a roller furler as well.

                                  Andrew


                                  From: Kyle Davis <blackhawk_master68@...>
                                  To: "BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com" <BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 10:41 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                                   
                                  Andrew,

                                  210's and 240's are single chainplates. It's easy.
                                   
                                  Kyle Davis
                                  "Be good, or be good at it"
                                  From: Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...>
                                  To: "BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com" <BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 8:03 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                                   
                                  Phil.. how do you deal with 2 chainplates on both sides and front stays longer than the back ones which do not reach to connect until the mast is nearly vertical?  Or do you still have only single chainplate?

                                  My rear stays remain slack until the mast is 3/4 vertical and the front stays are too short to attach until the mast is upright.

                                  Andrew

                                  From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                                  To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:29 PM
                                  Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: tell me about the "A" frame

                                   
                                  It can be even simpler and faster.

                                  On a boat with straight (in-line) spreaders, I prefer to drop forward, makes everything so much easier.

                                  On a boat with swept spreaders like most buccs, drop the mast aft. Then you don't have to disconnect Anything but the forestay.

                                  My last couple of boats have taller masts than the 210 or 240. I am 50+ and skinny (not a strapping muscular guy at all!)

                                  I made a wood support that drops across the stern rails, with a roller in the middle. (boat trailer rubber roller.)

                                  I made a wood support that drops onto the bow pulpit, also with a roller.

                                  I never disconnect any of the rigging.

                                  To step the mast, untie the mast from the supports (it will be sitting in the rollers) and undo the bungees securing the rigging.

                                  Slide the mast aft and pin the mast base.

                                  Stand in the stern, one foot on each cockpit seat, lift the mast onto your shoulder.

                                  Then do a clean and jerk motion using your legs to 'toss' the mast upward, straighten your arms and now you're holding the mast over your head. This lift is the only muscular effort needed. Once your arms are straight, your legs do the work.

                                  Walk the mast forward, hand over hand. When you get the cabin, if you can push the mast all the way by standing on the companionway, you're home free. At this point the mast is at a high enough angle the weight is mostly gone. If you can't reach it up at this point, step up onto the cabin top and continue forward. The shrouds stop the mast from falling forward.

                                  If you have a friend handy, have them pin the forestay. If not, I rig a line from a halyard or something, thru the bow cleat and back to the mast base. Once the mast is up, I pull that line snug and cleat if off. Then go pin the forestay.

                                  Boom done. Takes only minutes.

                                  Why disconnect ANY of the rigging? No need. Why rig a winching setup? No need.

                                  I've done the above, single handed, at least Two Hundred times, with masts 26, 28, even 30 feet! Never strained a muscle.

                                  The boat I currently race only has a 26 foot mast, a heavy section too, but I cannot get aft far enough, so from only 5-6 feet from the mast base it takes a lot of effort to get that initial lift, but I still manage. Most of the time my crew is helping rig the boat anyway, so I have someone lend a hand for pushing up that initial lift. Even so, no winches, no rigged bits, just slide, pin, lift, pin, and it's done.

                                  On the boats with in-line spreaders, dropping the mast forward is easier. And lifting the mast from the bow and walking it back is easier than straddling the cockpit.

                                  Anyway, that's it for me, I've given the best advice I can. Nothing wrong with rigging a lift if it makes you more comfortable, but small boat masts aren't usually that much trouble.

                                  --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Kyle Davis <blackhawk_master68@...> wrote:
                                  >









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