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Re: Broken mast

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  • Phil Collins
    If insurance won t replace it, since it broke there, I d sleeve it. You have nothing to lose, if it breaks again you ll still need a mast. Probably get years
    Message 1 of 20 , May 8 5:57 PM
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      If insurance won't replace it, since it broke there, I'd sleeve it.
      You have nothing to lose, if it breaks again you'll still need a mast. Probably get years of service from it.

      When a mast breaks while sailing, it's usually (for a mast that length) about halfway between the deck and the spreaders.

      You can Google sleeving a mast, but basically it's getting a section of mast that's similar, cutting it so the pieces fit inside the existing mast, and riveting it all together. You need about a 3' piece. (I have a friend who grew up sailing in Puerto Rico, he said guys on a budget (read: no budget) would sleeve a broken mast with a piece of 2x4 and some wood screws... It ain't rocket surgery...)

      You might contact rigrite and dwyermast about getting a piece for a sleeve, or try to find something somewhere. But that mast section isn't too common, it's (odd for a Bucc) a nicer section than most small boats use.

      Also double check what section you actually have, might have been others used originally, and by now it might have been replaced. You can also use any mast section that's similar in dimensions, in case you find a good used mast, just transfer all your hardware over at the precise same spots. Ignore the old holes, won't hurt a thing.


      --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "pdstuart_64850" <patrick.stuart@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hey Phil, No there were no other boats near it. I have only had it in the slip there for a couple of weeks. I thought I had the rigging set right. It seemed snug and even on all of the connections. I made sure and put new clips in the turn buckles so they wouldn't loosen. The owner of the marina said that the wind had it heeled over in the slip to the point it rubbed a hole in the side even next to a fender. The mast snapped about a foot above the spreader.
      > I'll add some photos of the damage to my photos in Pats 220.
      > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Collins" <PandD_Collins@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Nope - can't do that.
      > > Masts have been successfully repaired by "sleeving" them, but if you weld it, it will probably break the first time out.
      > >
      > > WHY did it break? Was it fatigued and ready to fail already? Was the rig not adjusted properly? You should be able to take a line from the masthead and pull the boat over on its side without breaking that mast...
      > >
      > > Or, did the boat next to it hit masts, catch a shroud etc and cause it? (People with centerboard boats who leave their boards up at the dock cause more damage to neighbors boats that way ...)
      > >
      > > BTW - it's a Kenyon 2740 section at rigrite.com or a DM-400 at dwyermast.com
      > >
      > > http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/Kenyon_Spars/kenyon.html#MORC%20Sections
      > > http://www.dwyermast.com/families.asp?cat1ID=20&cat1Name=Masts
      > >
      > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "pdstuart_64850" <patrick.stuart@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I have a Buc 220, in fact its the yellow one center on this home pate. we just had a major storm come through and I recieved a call from the marina to tell me my mast snapped about 15 feet above the cabin. I've contacted my insurance company but I was wondering if anyone has ever had a mast welded with a heliarc and if it was a good repair.
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • rpeter43
      ... The mast can be sleeved quite easily. Most larger boats come with the mast in two or more pieces for shipping purposes.
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 13, 2010
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        --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "pdstuart_64850" <patrick.stuart@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hey Phil, No there were no other boats near it. I have only had it in the slip there for a couple of weeks. I thought I had the rigging set right. It seemed snug and even on all of the connections. I made sure and put new clips in the turn buckles so they wouldn't loosen. The owner of the marina said that the wind had it heeled over in the slip to the point it rubbed a hole in the side even next to a fender. The mast snapped about a foot above the spreader.
        > I'll add some photos of the damage to my photos in Pats 220.
        > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Collins" <PandD_Collins@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Nope - can't do that.
        > > Masts have been successfully repaired by "sleeving" them, but if you weld it, it will probably break the first time out.
        > >
        > > WHY did it break? Was it fatigued and ready to fail already? Was the rig not adjusted properly? You should be able to take a line from the masthead and pull the boat over on its side without breaking that mast...
        > >
        > > Or, did the boat next to it hit masts, catch a shroud etc and cause it? (People with centerboard boats who leave their boards up at the dock cause more damage to neighbors boats that way ...)
        > >
        > > BTW - it's a Kenyon 2740 section at rigrite.com or a DM-400 at dwyermast.com
        > >
        > > http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/Kenyon_Spars/kenyon.html#MORC%20Sections
        > > http://www.dwyermast.com/families.asp?cat1ID=20&cat1Name=Masts
        > >
        > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "pdstuart_64850" <patrick.stuart@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I have a Buc 220, in fact its the yellow one center on this home pate. we just had a major storm come through and I recieved a call from the marina to tell me my mast snapped about 15 feet above the cabin. I've contacted my insurance company but I was wondering if anyone has ever had a mast welded with a heliarc and if it was a good repair.
        > > >
        > >
        >
        The mast can be sleeved quite easily. Most larger boats come with the mast in two or more pieces for shipping purposes.
      • Jeff
        Since we re on the topic, I bought a 240 and the bracket where the mast mounts to the top of the cabin is not attached. What do I use to attach it to the top
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 13, 2010
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          Since we're on the topic, I bought a 240 and the bracket where the mast mounts to the top of the cabin is not attached. What do I use to attach it to the top so that the mast will stay? Duct tape? ;)

          Thanks, JB

          --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "rpeter43" <rpeter43@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "pdstuart_64850" <patrick.stuart@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hey Phil, No there were no other boats near it. I have only had it in the slip there for a couple of weeks. I thought I had the rigging set right. It seemed snug and even on all of the connections. I made sure and put new clips in the turn buckles so they wouldn't loosen. The owner of the marina said that the wind had it heeled over in the slip to the point it rubbed a hole in the side even next to a fender. The mast snapped about a foot above the spreader.
          > > I'll add some photos of the damage to my photos in Pats 220.
          > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Collins" <PandD_Collins@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Nope - can't do that.
          > > > Masts have been successfully repaired by "sleeving" them, but if you weld it, it will probably break the first time out.
          > > >
          > > > WHY did it break? Was it fatigued and ready to fail already? Was the rig not adjusted properly? You should be able to take a line from the masthead and pull the boat over on its side without breaking that mast...
          > > >
          > > > Or, did the boat next to it hit masts, catch a shroud etc and cause it? (People with centerboard boats who leave their boards up at the dock cause more damage to neighbors boats that way ...)
          > > >
          > > > BTW - it's a Kenyon 2740 section at rigrite.com or a DM-400 at dwyermast.com
          > > >
          > > > http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/Kenyon_Spars/kenyon.html#MORC%20Sections
          > > > http://www.dwyermast.com/families.asp?cat1ID=20&cat1Name=Masts
          > > >
          > > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "pdstuart_64850" <patrick.stuart@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > I have a Buc 220, in fact its the yellow one center on this home pate. we just had a major storm come through and I recieved a call from the marina to tell me my mast snapped about 15 feet above the cabin. I've contacted my insurance company but I was wondering if anyone has ever had a mast welded with a heliarc and if it was a good repair.
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > The mast can be sleeved quite easily. Most larger boats come with the mast in two or more pieces for shipping purposes.
          >
        • Andres Espino
          I have a 240 too.  there is no bracket on the bottom of the mast  It is open.  There is only a hole through it where it connects to the step on the cabin
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 13, 2010
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            I have a 240 too.  there is no bracket on the bottom of the mast  It is open.  There is only a hole through it where it connects to the step on the cabin roof.  You put the pin through it, connect the wiring plugs and raise the mast with an A-Frame and Gin pole  I built a gin pole with a hand winch from harbor freight so i can crank it up while standing on the deck.  here is a good video about making the pieces and raising a mast.  This is for a Catalina 22 but applies equally well to a Bucc 240

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX9TRjBKCQ8


            Regards,

            Andrew




            --- On Mon, 12/13/10, Jeff <jeffrey.b.buck@...> wrote:

            From: Jeff <jeffrey.b.buck@...>
            Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: Broken mast
            To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Monday, December 13, 2010, 1:56 PM

             

            Since we're on the topic, I bought a 240 and the bracket where the mast mounts to the top of the cabin is not attached. What do I use to attach it to the top so that the mast will stay? Duct tape? ;)

            Thanks, JB

            --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "rpeter43" <rpeter43@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "pdstuart_64850" <patrick.stuart@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hey Phil, No there were no other boats near it. I have only had it in the slip there for a couple of weeks. I thought I had the rigging set right. It seemed snug and even on all of the connections. I made sure and put new clips in the turn buckles so they wouldn't loosen. The owner of the marina said that the wind had it heeled over in the slip to the point it rubbed a hole in the side even next to a fender. The mast snapped about a foot above the spreader.
            > > I'll add some photos of the damage to my photos in Pats 220.
            > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Collins" <PandD_Collins@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Nope - can't do that.
            > > > Masts have been successfully repaired by "sleeving" them, but if you weld it, it will probably break the first time out.
            > > >
            > > > WHY did it break? Was it fatigued and ready to fail already? Was the rig not adjusted properly? You should be able to take a line from the masthead and pull the boat over on its side without breaking that mast...
            > > >
            > > > Or, did the boat next to it hit masts, catch a shroud etc and cause it? (People with centerboard boats who leave their boards up at the dock cause more damage to neighbors boats that way ...)
            > > >
            > > > BTW - it's a Kenyon 2740 section at rigrite.com or a DM-400 at dwyermast.com
            > > >
            > > > http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/Kenyon_Spars/kenyon.html#MORC%20Sections
            > > > http://www.dwyermast.com/families.asp?cat1ID=20&cat1Name=Masts
            > > >
            > > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "pdstuart_64850" <patrick.stuart@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > I have a Buc 220, in fact its the yellow one center on this home pate. we just had a major storm come through and I recieved a call from the marina to tell me my mast snapped about 15 feet above the cabin. I've contacted my insurance company but I was wondering if anyone has ever had a mast welded with a heliarc and if it was a good repair.
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > The mast can be sleeved quite easily. Most larger boats come with the mast in two or more pieces for shipping purposes.
            >


          • PhilC
            If you mean that the mast base is not attached to the deck - whether it s a hinge base or standard tabernacle, you should notice 4 bolt holes in the it that
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 14, 2010
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              If you mean that the mast base is not attached to the deck - whether it's a hinge base or standard tabernacle, you should notice 4 bolt holes in the it that match up to 4 bolt holes in the deck.
              It should be through-bolted, with large backing washers on the inside. (Some were only lag bolted in from the factory, this is lazy and weak.) Don't forget some sealant.

              If you mean you have a mast foot that isn't attached to the mast section, I'd need to see it. (post a photo) But usually they fit inside the mast and have a few rivets holding them on. Once the mast is up, it's all loaded in compression, so there's nearly no load on the mast foot or the mast base.

              --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff" <jeffrey.b.buck@...> wrote:
              >
              > Since we're on the topic, I bought a 240 and the bracket where the mast mounts to the top of the cabin is not attached. What do I use to attach it to the top so that the mast will stay? Duct tape? ;)
              >
              > Thanks, JB
              >
              > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "rpeter43" <rpeter43@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "pdstuart_64850" <patrick.stuart@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hey Phil, No there were no other boats near it. I have only had it in the slip there for a couple of weeks. I thought I had the rigging set right. It seemed snug and even on all of the connections. I made sure and put new clips in the turn buckles so they wouldn't loosen. The owner of the marina said that the wind had it heeled over in the slip to the point it rubbed a hole in the side even next to a fender. The mast snapped about a foot above the spreader.
              > > > I'll add some photos of the damage to my photos in Pats 220.
              > > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Collins" <PandD_Collins@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Nope - can't do that.
              > > > > Masts have been successfully repaired by "sleeving" them, but if you weld it, it will probably break the first time out.
              > > > >
              > > > > WHY did it break? Was it fatigued and ready to fail already? Was the rig not adjusted properly? You should be able to take a line from the masthead and pull the boat over on its side without breaking that mast...
              > > > >
              > > > > Or, did the boat next to it hit masts, catch a shroud etc and cause it? (People with centerboard boats who leave their boards up at the dock cause more damage to neighbors boats that way ...)
              > > > >
              > > > > BTW - it's a Kenyon 2740 section at rigrite.com or a DM-400 at dwyermast.com
              > > > >
              > > > > http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/Kenyon_Spars/kenyon.html#MORC%20Sections
              > > > > http://www.dwyermast.com/families.asp?cat1ID=20&cat1Name=Masts
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "pdstuart_64850" <patrick.stuart@> wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I have a Buc 220, in fact its the yellow one center on this home pate. we just had a major storm come through and I recieved a call from the marina to tell me my mast snapped about 15 feet above the cabin. I've contacted my insurance company but I was wondering if anyone has ever had a mast welded with a heliarc and if it was a good repair.
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > The mast can be sleeved quite easily. Most larger boats come with the mast in two or more pieces for shipping purposes.
              > >
              >
            • PhilC
              Those always make me chuckle. Any adult male in halfway decent physical condition can easily hand-raise a Catalina 22 or Bucc 240 mast. No gin
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 14, 2010
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                Those always make me chuckle.
                Any adult male in halfway decent physical condition can easily hand-raise a Catalina 22 or Bucc 240 mast. No gin pole/a-frame/winch required.

                --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                >
                > I have a 240 too.  there is no bracket on the bottom of the mast  It is open.  There is only a hole through it where it connects to the step on the cabin roof.  You put the pin through it, connect the wiring plugs and raise the mast with an A-Frame and Gin pole  I built a gin pole with a hand winch from harbor freight so i can crank it up while standing on the deck.  here is a good video about making the pieces and raising a mast.  This is for a Catalina 22 but applies equally well to a Bucc 240
                >
                > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX9TRjBKCQ8
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                > Andrew
              • Andres Espino
                Yes i agree that it certainly can be done, but these methods make it safer and smoother to do it all alone, especially if you are trying to get it up on a
                Message 7 of 20 , Dec 15, 2010
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                  Yes i agree that it certainly can be done, but these methods make it safer and smoother to do it all alone, especially if you are trying to get it up on a windy day.

                  T
                  he 4 side stays cannot be attached until the mast is upright and so a single person can lose the mast balance while trying to attach the stays.  the mast can fall off off sideways with out support of an A frame.

                  If you are trying to 'walk the mast up'  there is an awkward spot where you cannot stay under the mast and climb onto the cabin roof to continue. 

                  I am mostly using the boat winch now, with a line through a pulley at the base of the forestay fitting attached to the forestay.. but i still do use an A-frame and a gin pole.


                  Andrew



                  --- On Tue, 12/14/10, PhilC <PandD_Collins@...> wrote:

                  From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                  Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: Broken mast
                  To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 1:12 PM

                   

                  Those always make me chuckle.
                  Any adult male in halfway decent physical condition can easily hand-raise a Catalina 22 or Bucc 240 mast. No gin pole/a-frame/winch required.

                  --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I have a 240 too.  there is no bracket on the bottom of the mast  It is open.  There is only a hole through it where it connects to the step on the cabin roof.  You put the pin through it, connect the wiring plugs and raise the mast with an A-Frame and Gin pole  I built a gin pole with a hand winch from harbor freight so i can crank it up while standing on the deck.  here is a good video about making the pieces and raising a mast.  This is for a Catalina 22 but applies equally well to a Bucc 240
                  >
                  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX9TRjBKCQ8
                  >
                  > Regards,
                  >
                  > Andrew


                • Andres Espino
                  Since I also have a 240 with a vintage mast, I am concerned about why the mast broke where it did while supported by the 6 stays.  i would have thought the 4
                  Message 8 of 20 , Dec 15, 2010
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                    Since I also have a 240 with a vintage mast, I am concerned about why the mast broke where it did while supported by the 6 stays.  i would have thought the 4 top stays should have held the upper mast.  I assume this was with no sails raised so it would have encountered greater stresses under sail at sea.  Did any of the stays break?

                    I would sure hate for this to happen to my 240 while under sail with the old mast...

                    Andrew



                    --- On Mon, 12/13/10, rpeter43 <rpeter43@...> wrote:

                    From: rpeter43 <rpeter43@...>
                    Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: Broken mast
                    To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Monday, December 13, 2010, 1:38 PM

                     



                    --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "pdstuart_64850" <patrick.stuart@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hey Phil, No there were no other boats near it. I have only had it in the slip there for a couple of weeks. I thought I had the rigging set right. It seemed snug and even on all of the connections. I made sure and put new clips in the turn buckles so they wouldn't loosen. The owner of the marina said that the wind had it heeled over in the slip to the point it rubbed a hole in the side even next to a fender. The mast snapped about a foot above the spreader.
                    > I'll add some photos of the damage to my photos in Pats 220.
                    > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "Phil Collins" <PandD_Collins@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Nope - can't do that.
                    > > Masts have been successfully repaired by "sleeving" them, but if you weld it, it will probably break the first time out.
                    > >
                    > > WHY did it break? Was it fatigued and ready to fail already? Was the rig not adjusted properly? You should be able to take a line from the masthead and pull the boat over on its side without breaking that mast...
                    > >
                    > > Or, did the boat next to it hit masts, catch a shroud etc and cause it? (People with centerboard boats who leave their boards up at the dock cause more damage to neighbors boats that way ...)
                    > >
                    > > BTW - it's a Kenyon 2740 section at rigrite.com or a DM-400 at dwyermast.com
                    > >
                    > > http://www.rigrite.com/Spars/Kenyon_Spars/kenyon.html#MORC%20Sections
                    > > http://www.dwyermast.com/families.asp?cat1ID=20&cat1Name=Masts
                    > >
                    > > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, "pdstuart_64850" <patrick.stuart@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > I have a Buc 220, in fact its the yellow one center on this home pate. we just had a major storm come through and I recieved a call from the marina to tell me my mast snapped about 15 feet above the cabin. I've contacted my insurance company but I was wondering if anyone has ever had a mast welded with a heliarc and if it was a good repair.
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    The mast can be sleeved quite easily. Most larger boats come with the mast in two or more pieces for shipping purposes.


                  • PhilC
                    ??! I ve owned 20 trailerable boats over 40 years, crewed and helped on literally hundreds of others, and on every single one of them the shrouds are
                    Message 9 of 20 , Dec 15, 2010
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                      ??! I've owned 20 trailerable boats over 40 years, crewed and helped on literally hundreds of others, and on every single one of them the shrouds are connected before the mast goes up, if the mast is deck stepped. (On keel stepped masts it's different.)

                      But there's nothing wrong with using the winch, it just takes longer. I only commented so that others would know that raising a mast on a boat this size is not a big deal.

                      --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Yes i agree that it certainly can be done, but these methods make it safer and smoother to do it all alone, especially if you are trying to get it up on a windy day.
                      >
                      > The 4 side stays cannot be attached until the mast is upright and so a single person can lose the mast balance while trying to attach the stays.  the mast can fall off off sideways with out support of an A frame.
                      >
                      > If you are trying to 'walk the mast up'  there is an awkward spot where you cannot stay under the mast and climb onto the cabin roof to continue. 
                      >
                      > I am mostly using the boat winch now, with a line through a pulley at the base of the forestay fitting attached to the forestay.. but i still do use an A-frame and a gin pole.
                      >
                      > Andrew
                      >
                      >
                      > --- On Tue, 12/14/10, PhilC <PandD_Collins@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                      > Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: Broken mast
                      > To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 1:12 PM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >  
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Those always make me chuckle.
                      >
                      > Any adult male in halfway decent physical condition can easily hand-raise a Catalina 22 or Bucc 240 mast. No gin pole/a-frame/winch required.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@> wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > I have a 240 too.  there is no bracket on the bottom of the mast  It is open.  There is only a hole through it where it connects to the step on the cabin roof.  You put the pin through it, connect the wiring plugs and raise the mast with an A-Frame and Gin pole  I built a gin pole with a hand winch from harbor freight so i can crank it up while standing on the deck.  here is a good video about making the pieces and raising a mast.  This is for a Catalina 22 but applies equally well to a Bucc 240
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX9TRjBKCQ8
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > Regards,
                      >
                      > >
                      >
                      > > Andrew
                      >
                    • PhilC
                      Could be as simple as: 30 year old masts break on occasion. They don t last forever. Fatigue takes its toll.
                      Message 10 of 20 , Dec 15, 2010
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                        Could be as simple as: 30 year old masts break on occasion. They don't last forever. Fatigue takes its toll.

                        --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Since I also have a 240 with a vintage mast, I am concerned about why the mast broke where it did while supported by the 6 stays.  i would have thought the 4 top stays should have held the upper mast.  I assume this was with no sails raised so it would have encountered greater stresses under sail at sea.  Did any of the stays break?
                        >
                        > I would sure hate for this to happen to my 240 while under sail with the old mast...
                        >
                        > Andrew
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- On Mon, 12/13/10, rpeter43 <rpeter43@...> wrote:
                        >
                      • Andres Espino
                        If the chainplates are fwd and aft of the mast step you can t do it.  Yes you can if they are exactly horizontal from it.  I have 2 chainplates on each
                        Message 11 of 20 , Dec 15, 2010
                        • 0 Attachment
                          If the chainplates are fwd and aft of the mast step you can't do it.  Yes you can if they are exactly horizontal from it.  I have 2 chainplates on each side  like a Columbia 26 now  one forward of the mast step and one aft.  One would be too long to help with raising and the other too short to reach until the mast is vertical.  I know on Catalinas one attaches the side stays after the mast is up.. says so in the manual.

                          Andrew



                          --- On Wed, 12/15/10, PhilC <PandD_Collins@...> wrote:

                          From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                          Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Mast Raising... Re: Broken mast
                          To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 2:33 PM

                           

                          ??! I've owned 20 trailerable boats over 40 years, crewed and helped on literally hundreds of others, and on every single one of them the shrouds are connected before the mast goes up, if the mast is deck stepped. (On keel stepped masts it's different.)

                          But there's nothing wrong with using the winch, it just takes longer. I only commented so that others would know that raising a mast on a boat this size is not a big deal.

                          --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Yes i agree that it certainly can be done, but these methods make it safer and smoother to do it all alone, especially if you are trying to get it up on a windy day.
                          >
                          > The 4 side stays cannot be attached until the mast is upright and so a single person can lose the mast balance while trying to attach the stays.  the mast can fall off off sideways with out support of an A frame.
                          >
                          > If you are trying to 'walk the mast up'  there is an awkward spot where you cannot stay under the mast and climb onto the cabin roof to continue. 
                          >
                          > I am mostly using the boat winch now, with a line through a pulley at the base of the forestay fitting attached to the forestay.. but i still do use an A-frame and a gin pole.
                          >
                          > Andrew
                          >
                          >
                          > --- On Tue, 12/14/10, PhilC <PandD_Collins@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                          > Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: Broken mast
                          > To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 1:12 PM
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >  
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Those always make me chuckle.
                          >
                          > Any adult male in halfway decent physical condition can easily hand-raise a Catalina 22 or Bucc 240 mast. No gin pole/a-frame/winch required.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@> wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > I have a 240 too.  there is no bracket on the bottom of the mast  It is open.  There is only a hole through it where it connects to the step on the cabin roof.  You put the pin through it, connect the wiring plugs and raise the mast with an A-Frame and Gin pole  I built a gin pole with a hand winch from harbor freight so i can crank it up while standing on the deck.  here is a good video about making the pieces and raising a mast.  This is for a Catalina 22 but applies equally well to a Bucc 240
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX9TRjBKCQ8
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > Regards,
                          >
                          > >
                          >
                          > > Andrew
                          >


                        • Andres Espino
                          Anyone know of a good way to evaluate a mast?  I don t see any corrosion to speak of on my mast and it has been most of its life on a trailer. Andrew ...
                          Message 12 of 20 , Dec 15, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Anyone know of a good way to evaluate a mast?  I don't see any corrosion to speak of on my mast and it has been most of its life on a trailer.

                            Andrew



                            --- On Wed, 12/15/10, PhilC <PandD_Collins@...> wrote:

                            From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                            Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: Broken mast
                            To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 2:34 PM

                             

                            Could be as simple as: 30 year old masts break on occasion. They don't last forever. Fatigue takes its toll.

                            --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Since I also have a 240 with a vintage mast, I am concerned about why the mast broke where it did while supported by the 6 stays.  i would have thought the 4 top stays should have held the upper mast.  I assume this was with no sails raised so it would have encountered greater stresses under sail at sea.  Did any of the stays break?
                            >
                            > I would sure hate for this to happen to my 240 while under sail with the old mast...
                            >
                            > Andrew
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --- On Mon, 12/13/10, rpeter43 <rpeter43@...> wrote:
                            >


                          • Davis Kyle
                            Phil s the man... When I first put mine in ten years ago it was he and one other originator of these sites whom I got direction from. Been workin just like it
                            Message 13 of 20 , Dec 15, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Phil's the man...
                              When I first put mine in ten years ago it was he and one other originator of these sites whom I got direction from. Been workin' just like it should all these years. I can step a mast with one person in 5 minutes and tune on the water in five minutes more. Thanks Phil, incase I didn't say it before.


                              Kyle "Freebuc"


                              On Dec 15, 2010, at 1:33 PM36PST, PhilC wrote:

                               

                              ??! I've owned 20 trailerable boats over 40 years, crewed and helped on literally hundreds of others, and on every single one of them the shrouds are connected before the mast goes up, if the mast is deck stepped. (On keel stepped masts it's different.)

                              But there's nothing wrong with using the winch, it just takes longer. I only commented so that others would know that raising a mast on a boat this size is not a big deal.

                              --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Yes i agree that it certainly can be done, but these methods make it safer and smoother to do it all alone, especially if you are trying to get it up on a windy day.
                              >
                              > The 4 side stays cannot be attached until the mast is upright and so a single person can lose the mast balance while trying to attach the stays.  the mast can fall off off sideways with out support of an A frame.
                              >
                              > If you are trying to 'walk the mast up'  there is an awkward spot where you cannot stay under the mast and climb onto the cabin roof to continue. 
                              >
                              > I am mostly using the boat winch now, with a line through a pulley at the base of the forestay fitting attached to the forestay.. but i still do use an A-frame and a gin pole.
                              >
                              > Andrew
                              >
                              >
                              > --- On Tue, 12/14/10, PhilC <PandD_Collins@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                              > Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: Broken mast
                              > To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 1:12 PM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Those always make me chuckle.
                              >
                              > Any adult male in halfway decent physical condition can easily hand-raise a Catalina 22 or Bucc 240 mast. No gin pole/a-frame/winch required.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > I have a 240 too.  there is no bracket on the bottom of the mast  It is open.  There is only a hole through it where it connects to the step on the cabin roof.  You put the pin through it, connect the wiring plugs and raise the mast with an A-Frame and Gin pole  I built a gin pole with a hand winch from harbor freight so i can crank it up while standing on the deck.  here is a good video about making the pieces and raising a mast.  This is for a Catalina 22 but applies equally well to a Bucc 240
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX9TRjBKCQ8
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > Regards,
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > Andrew
                              >


                            • Davis Kyle
                              pay someone to insect it with eddy current. Kyle ... pay someone to insect it with eddy current. Kyle On Dec 15, 2010, at 4:14 PM32PST, Andres Espino wrote:
                              Message 14 of 20 , Dec 15, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                pay someone to insect it with eddy current.

                                Kyle
                                On Dec 15, 2010, at 4:14 PM32PST, Andres Espino wrote:

                                 

                                Anyone know of a good way to evaluate a mast?  I don't see any corrosion to speak of on my mast and it has been most of its life on a trailer.

                                Andrew



                                --- On Wed, 12/15/10, PhilC <PandD_Collins@...> wrote:

                                From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                                Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: Broken mast
                                To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 2:34 PM

                                 

                                Could be as simple as: 30 year old masts break on occasion. They don't last forever. Fatigue takes its toll.

                                --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Since I also have a 240 with a vintage mast, I am concerned about why the mast broke where it did while supported by the 6 stays.  i would have thought the 4 top stays should have held the upper mast.  I assume this was with no sails raised so it would have encountered greater stresses under sail at sea.  Did any of the stays break?
                                >
                                > I would sure hate for this to happen to my 240 while under sail with the old mast...
                                >
                                > Andrew
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- On Mon, 12/13/10, rpeter43 <rpeter43@...> wrote:
                                >



                              • Davis Kyle
                                Just remembered the other guy: Jollymon and one other guy...well there was also Stephen...OOOOHHHHH!!!!!!!! It was Kevin!!!!!! Whew....that would have kept me
                                Message 15 of 20 , Dec 15, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Just remembered the other guy: Jollymon and one other guy...well there was also Stephen...OOOOHHHHH!!!!!!!! It was Kevin!!!!!! Whew....that would have kept me up all night.

                                  Kyle "Freebuc"

                                  On Dec 15, 2010, at 6:14 PM48PST, Davis Kyle wrote:

                                   

                                  Phil's the man...

                                  When I first put mine in ten years ago it was he and one other originator of these sites whom I got direction from. Been workin' just like it should all these years. I can step a mast with one person in 5 minutes and tune on the water in five minutes more. Thanks Phil, incase I didn't say it before.


                                  Kyle "Freebuc"


                                  On Dec 15, 2010, at 1:33 PM36PST, PhilC wrote:

                                   

                                  ??! I've owned 20 trailerable boats over 40 years, crewed and helped on literally hundreds of others, and on every single one of them the shrouds are connected before the mast goes up, if the mast is deck stepped. (On keel stepped masts it's different.)

                                  But there's nothing wrong with using the winch, it just takes longer. I only commented so that others would know that raising a mast on a boat this size is not a big deal.

                                  --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Yes i agree that it certainly can be done, but these methods make it safer and smoother to do it all alone, especially if you are trying to get it up on a windy day.
                                  >
                                  > The 4 side stays cannot be attached until the mast is upright and so a single person can lose the mast balance while trying to attach the stays.  the mast can fall off off sideways with out support of an A frame.
                                  >
                                  > If you are trying to 'walk the mast up'  there is an awkward spot where you cannot stay under the mast and climb onto the cabin roof to continue. 
                                  >
                                  > I am mostly using the boat winch now, with a line through a pulley at the base of the forestay fitting attached to the forestay.. but i still do use an A-frame and a gin pole.
                                  >
                                  > Andrew
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- On Tue, 12/14/10, PhilC <PandD_Collins@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > From: PhilC <PandD_Collins@...>
                                  > Subject: [BaylinerBuccaneerGroup] Re: Broken mast
                                  > To: BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 1:12 PM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Those always make me chuckle.
                                  >
                                  > Any adult male in halfway decent physical condition can easily hand-raise a Catalina 22 or Bucc 240 mast. No gin pole/a-frame/winch required.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In BaylinerBuccaneerGroup@yahoogroups.com, Andres Espino <ima_very_cool_cowboy@> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > I have a 240 too.  there is no bracket on the bottom of the mast  It is open.  There is only a hole through it where it connects to the step on the cabin roof.  You put the pin through it, connect the wiring plugs and raise the mast with an A-Frame and Gin pole  I built a gin pole with a hand winch from harbor freight so i can crank it up while standing on the deck.  here is a good video about making the pieces and raising a mast.  This is for a Catalina 22 but applies equally well to a Bucc 240
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX9TRjBKCQ8
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Regards,
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > Andrew
                                  >




                                • Jim Forster
                                  Hey, I m bacl. Remember JimB240. the guy with the bucc 240 Water Music? I had made all sorts of changes in t he boat since I bought it brand new out of the
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Dec 15, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hey, I'm bacl. Remember JimB240. the guy with the bucc 240 Water Music? I had made all sorts of changes in t he boat  since I bought  it brand new out of the factory. . I remembered all the original members.
                                    Lost all the pics and lists of changes
                                  • blackhawk_master68@yahoo.com
                                    Hey Jim !!! Still have her? I remember the pics. -- Sent from my Palm Pre On Dec 15, 2010 9:19 PM, Jim Forster <jforster@shaw.ca> wrote:   Hey, I m
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Dec 15, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hey Jim !!! Still have her? I remember the pics.



                                      -- Sent from my Palm Pre


                                      On Dec 15, 2010 9:19 PM, Jim Forster <jforster@...> wrote:

                                       

                                      Hey, I'm bacl. Remember JimB240. the guy with the bucc 240 Water Music? I had made all sorts of changes in t he boat  since I bought  it brand new out of the factory. . I remembered all the original members.
                                      Lost all the pics and lists of changes

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